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loh · Oct 26, 2002, 04:51 AM

Ok folks.... I have one week to decide whether im gonna buy a apple factory refurbished quicksilver Dual 1ghz from flymilesmicro.com for $2149 or a New Dual 867 from Apple for $1700. I am only paying half, I got my parents to pay the other half for educational purposes so the price difference to me is about 200 dollars. Which system would you recommend? The dual 1ghz would be pushing my budget a little bit but I think I could pull it off. The system will be used for photoshop, audio editing (reason, pro tools), and maybe some video stuff in the future. Ill probably only be using OS X . What do you think is a better system in the long run and is it worth it?

JNG · Oct 26, 2002, 05:50 AM

Get the refurbished Dual 1 GHz system. If budget is a concern, its RAM is cheaper so you can get it more for OS X. (I'm sure you are familiar with the debates about the memory controller and so forth on the MDD PowerMacs and whether their DDR RAM traslates into much of a performance improvement over the previous generation; I feel sure the previous-gen dual 1 GHz still has a performance advantage over the MDD dual 867 MHz.)

Have you shopped around a lot looking for good prices on refurbished dual 1 GHZ Quicksilvers?

raskol · Oct 26, 2002, 05:58 AM

Never believe website stock numbers. I called flymilesmicro.com Friday they are either out of stock or spoken for. They may get more in but as of now...

If you find a deal on a Mac you have to snap it up. Those Quicksilvers are getting hard to find. I bought a refurb QS DP 1Ghz because the memory is so much cheaper and I would expect they are quieter.

duboy · Oct 26, 2002, 09:10 AM

loh, :-) you know my vote. Quickie's all the way :-D. And yes, they are getting really hard to find, jump on it......jump on it...(sugarhill gang...yeah...). alright it's saturday and i have to go into work...good thing i enjoy what i do, otherwise my boot would be up this job's (nose)

MacOS · Oct 26, 2002, 11:05 AM

Ok I�ll be the devils advocate. I would go for the Dual 867, that�s what I did. You could save the $500 or put that towards RAM ($120/512MB PC2100) or whatever. Also you may qualify for a student discount.

Here�s my rational. Is the Dual 1Ghz faster? Yes. But how much time will it really save you. From the tests done by Macworld a couple of 10 seconds. I could see getting the Dual 1Ghz if you�re rendering 3D scenes that take 8+ hour to render then the time saved would be greater. If this was for business use then time is money and then maybe the extra money spent would be justified.

I won�t get into human psychology of owning a faster machine. I�ll leave that to someone else

Hope this helps.

The Devils Advocate

raskol · Oct 26, 2002, 12:07 PM

Yeah you will put all the money you saved on a slower machine into overpriced RAM. You won't save any money in the long run. The dual 1Ghz will always have a higher resale value.

MacOS · Oct 26, 2002, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by raskol:
Yeah you will put all the money you saved on a slower machine into overpriced RAM. You won't save any money in the long run. The dual 1Ghz will always have a higher resale value.

Let me see if I have your logic correct.

$500 Savings - $60 ($120 DDR 512MB - $60 SDRAM 512MB) = $440
$440 for maybe 10 sec gain in iTunes? Not worth it.
The Dual 1Ghz going to be worth $440 more in 4-5 yrs? No.
Add in the fact that he would have to earn $572 in Gross salary in order to net (after income tax) $440 to spend. I'd rather work less hours

loh · Oct 26, 2002, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by MacOS:

Add in the fact that he would have to earn $572 in Gross salary in order to net (after income tax) $440 to spend. I'd rather work less hours

You mean 286, And I get paid under the table

But yeah I do see your point. I found some brand new QS Dual 1ghz for a few hundred dollars more @ www.powermax.com. Thanks for the replies so far, keep'em coming.

BrunoBruin · Oct 26, 2002, 06:21 PM

If it were between the two generations of dual-1GHz machines, I'd take the MDD hands down. The Quicksilver vs. the new 867 is a little more complex because the QS should be faster; with the same bus but faster processors and more L3 cache, it's possible you'd be satisfied with this machine longer.

The debate about the price of RAM is complicated, as I mentioned in another thread, by the fact that the DDR RAM in the new Power Macs will almost certainly be used in the next generation as well, especially if you pony up for the PC2700 (the 867 requires 2100). The Quicksilver is the end of the line for PC133. But man, PC133 is SO cheap. In a couple of years you won't care that you spent $50 on RAM that you can't use in your new machine.

loh · Oct 26, 2002, 11:15 PM

If anyone see's any deals on refurb dual quicksilver for around 2000 please email ASAP @ [email protected]

GetSome681 · Oct 27, 2002, 02:30 AM

I'd say MDD just b/c you have that 2nd optical slot, and won't have to get an external firewire enclosure if you wanted a 2nd optical drive, plus it's cheaper!

idyll · Oct 27, 2002, 10:46 AM

MDD. it cost's much less, looks cooler (personal preference but you have to see this thing in person!!) it's not as loud as everyone say's it is, and look at that cache =).

Leonis · Oct 27, 2002, 12:01 PM

SlowSilver (tm) has 2MB cache per cpu PLUS superdrive....

These are the things that the One-Eyed Mikey doen't have

loh · Oct 28, 2002, 03:13 AM

I think the Quicksilver case looks nicer than the new Mirror door case......

duboy · Oct 28, 2002, 03:35 AM

loh, i agree wholeheartedly :-) go for the QS!!!

loh · Oct 31, 2002, 12:12 AM

Damn, Im still having an indecision. Would I really notice the extra mhz for the things im doing? (mostly media, browsing, photoshop. In the future some video). I found a brand new Dual 1ghz Quicksilver for 2194 + shipping. Or I can go over to the apple store and get a MDD Dual 867 for 1700 out the door w/ my student discount (and no wait for shipping

) The biggest thing thats bothering me is the price difference. Is worth it? because the 1gig will really be pushing my budget (ill basically have nothing until my next pay check) but if you guys think that its worth it, Ill go for the 1 gig.

Mac Zealot · Oct 31, 2002, 12:17 AM

The quicksilver was a beautiful machine, looked too much like the son of a cube.

They're also quieter.

*shrug* get a QS if you can, but otherwise just get the 867, it's plenty fast, and ddr ram is actually about the same as sd nowadays.

loh · Oct 31, 2002, 12:24 AM

I agree, QS case is much cleaner and the front looks alot nicer than the new mirror door macs. The different finish on the drive doors just doesnt do it for me, it kinda reminds me of a PC or something.

Leonis · Oct 31, 2002, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by loh:
Damn, Im still having an indecision. Would I really notice the extra mhz for the things im doing? (mostly media, browsing, photoshop. In the future some video). I found a brand new Dual 1ghz Quicksilver for 2194 + shipping. Or I can go over to the apple store and get a MDD Dual 867 for 1700 out the door w/ my student discount (and no wait for shipping ) The biggest thing thats bothering me is the price difference. Is worth it? because the 1gig will really be pushing my budget (ill basically have nothing until my next pay check) but if you guys think that its worth it, Ill go for the 1 gig.

The SlowSilver has superdrive and "more RAM".....using cheaper RM. And faster cpus and more cache.

To me I will go for the SlowSilver even it's more expensive.

Simon · Oct 31, 2002, 12:35 PM

This has been also been discussed in other threads. I'll copy my other posting in case you haven't seen it and are still intersted in debating QS vs. MDD:

I believe from a performance point of view there is no big difference between a QS dual and MDD dual at the same clock speed. Maybe the QS is slightly slower when doing intensive I/O or DMA but I suppose that's about it. I don't necessarily think the QS looks better but that's just my opinion. The QS is probably more quiet whereas the MDD has two optical bays and an ATA-100 channel. I also like the 2MB L3 cache on the QS.

I have had a lot of fun with my brand new dual 867 PowerMac so I can really recommend the MDD PowerMacs. On the other hand I believe the QS are very good machines as well - especially the dual 1GHz model.

duboy · Oct 31, 2002, 01:21 PM

here i am again :-) of course i'm going to vote for the quicksilver, but think about this, the quicksilver performance is about equal to the MDD dual 1gig...so if you get the dual 867, the performance will not be as good. it won't be bad of course, but i guess on paper the QS will still be faster. also, ATA/100 is nice, but most drives can't sustain over 50Mb/sec right? so ATA/100 is nice if you have multiple drives on the chain, but on large drive on one chain, and the optical drive on the other won't tax either one. it's quieter and yes, in my opinion, prettier :-) and like simon said (:-D), 2megs of L2 cache is nice! have you made up your mind yet????

loh · Oct 31, 2002, 02:29 PM

yeah im getting the Quicksilver........thanks for all the replies.

Simon · Oct 31, 2002, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by loh:
yeah im getting the Quicksilver........thanks for all the replies.

Congrats! I'm sure you'll like it. Just put enough RAM in that box. Have fun!

loh · Nov 1, 2002, 03:24 AM

Damn, somebody bought the system I wanted from macwarehouse for 2200 already, they only had one left.... But I can get one from Powermax for 2349 or I saw a refurb MDD Dual 1 gig for 2199. Whaddya think?

duboy · Nov 1, 2002, 03:49 AM

loh, is the one from Powermax refurb? some people might have good luck with refurb, but never do, i've had refurb hardware that worked properly, but was asthetically messed up, cracks in the case, rattling here and there. i would pay the extra 150 to get a new, non refurb unit.

Simon · Nov 1, 2002, 04:08 AM

Originally posted by loh:
Damn, somebody bought the system I wanted from macwarehouse for 2200 already, they only had one left.... But I can get one from Powermax for 2349 or I saw a refurb MDD Dual 1 gig for 2199. Whaddya think?

Well, they will have about the same speed. The MDD is cheaper, but also louder and maybe you prefer the QS case looks. Do you need a second optical drive (-> MDD)? How much is less noise worth to you?

And I'd really think about RAM. If the QS is already straining your budget, get the cheaper MDD and some RAM. Don't go for less than 512MB RAM. If you have enough cash, get a Gig.

dbergstrom · Nov 1, 2002, 12:30 PM

Apple Store for Education has refurb Dual 1GHz for $2199. Does not specify QS vs MDD, but ships with 10.2 so I would assume MDDD.

loh · Nov 2, 2002, 04:36 AM

YAY! I found a refurb Dual quicksilver for 2099...hopefully they have more than 1 or 2 in stock as I cant order till monday (closed on weekends)

aloner · Nov 2, 2002, 06:05 AM

Have you considered the price of a good display in your budget?.

When I bought my Powermac a couple of months ago, I went for a MDD DP867 so I could save some money for a good display to go with my brand new mac.

Good displays, Apple LCDs above all, are still expensive.

loh · Nov 2, 2002, 02:21 PM

I have a 19" NEC Flat Tube CRT monitor, which I bought about 2 yrs ago and plan on using for a while more.

TimmyDee51 · Nov 4, 2002, 01:00 PM

I have a dual 867 and I would say go for that. In addition to the extra optical drive bay, you get space for four hard drives on two buses, one of which is ATA-100. All I can say is that my machine flies and I'm really, really happy with it.

Oh yeah, the new MDD can take up to 2 GB of memory where the QS can only take 1.5 GB. That may not seem like a big deal now, but I'm sure it will in the future.

SkiBikeSki · Nov 5, 2002, 02:55 AM

In my opinion the 2nd bay isn't a big factor since most drives are too deep to fit into it. Also the DDR speed isn't important since the CPU-RAM interface is a bottleneck on the current G4. 4 HDD's might be a factor in your thinking. With the dirt cheap CL2 ram from OWC, read this thread, you could get then RAM up to 1.5GB for $90 in the 1Ghz. And that would cost a lot more for DDR, that as of yet doesn't perform much better. Plus the 1Ghz CPU is better not only from Mhz, but also cache.

Get the 1GHz!

Cindy74 · Nov 5, 2002, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by SkiBikeSki:
With the dirt cheap CL2 ram from OWC, read this thread, you could get then RAM up to 1.5GB for $90 in the 1Ghz. And that would cost a lot more for DDR, that as of yet doesn't perform much better. Plus the 1Ghz CPU is better not only from Mhz, but also cache.

Get the 1GHz!

As far as DDR ram is concerned, you can get deals. I wound up paying $90 total for 1.25 gigs of ram in my dual 867. 256 meg came with the machine, 512 got "thrown in" and I payed the $90 for another 512. How can you go wrong with that? You just have to look around for the best deal.

I am very happy with this Mac.

eddiecatflap · Nov 6, 2002, 04:22 AM

..the dual 867 rox.

..the larger drive bays do it for me.

..superdrive on top , fast cdrw on bottom.

..& a LOAD of hard disks..woo hoo !

loh · Nov 7, 2002, 04:40 AM

The expansion for drives doesnt really matter for me. Ill probably just see how the superdrive goes, if i dont like it ill just sell it and get a fast CDRW drive. And I dont have the need for many extra hard drives, 2 at the most in my system will be enough as drives are getting bigger and bigger. Im gonna order my system on friday, a brand new Dual 1ghz QS for 2349. Those damn refurbs sell too quick!

loh · Nov 10, 2002, 01:03 AM

Well....I Just bought my system today. I went down to the apple store here in Costa mesa and picked up a Dual 867 w/ 512 memory. When it came down to it I couldnt justify spending 600 dollars more on a system with extras that I probably wont even use (The QS Dual 1GHz). This machine is beautiful so far, and the noise isnt that bad. Its about as loud as an average PC is now. Only one time when I rebooted that big fan came on and OMG! I hope that sucker stays off most the time. Anyway, I wanna say thanks for the advice and hopefully I have no problems with this machine.