[Cipher13]

Why is file sharing under 10.2 so painfully slow? It's worse than 10.0.

Details:

G4 (10.1.5) -> iMac (10.2) = SLOW
iMac (10.2) -> G4 (10.1.5) = SLOW
iMac (10.2) -> iBook (10.2) = SLOW
G4 (10.1.5) -> iBook (10.2) = SLOW
G4 (10.1.5) -> iBook (10.1.5) = FAST
G4 (10.1.5) -> iMac (10.1.5) = FAST
iMac (10.1.5) -> iBook (10.1.5) = FAST
iBook (10.1.5) -> G4 (10.2) = SLOW
iBook (10.1.5) -> G4 (10.1.5) = FAST
iMac (10.1.5) -> G4 (10.1.5) = FAST

I hope I didn't repeat myself, but when copying files, if a system running 10.2 is involved, it's unbearably slow - we're talking 10 minutes to copy 3.5 megs (6 files).

I have to copy 17 gigs before I can move the G4 to 10.2 - and that's just restoring the iMac, not backing up the G4's other 200 gigs.

What's the deal, anyone know? Is this a documented problem? I searched and couldn't find anything.

[MacGorilla]

really? I think file transfer very fast between by Dual 1 ghz 10.2 and my iBook G3 500 10.2 very fast.

[Cipher13]

Hmm. How are you doing it? Enabling it in the Sharing pane, then connecting via AFP?

I've turned off the firewall incase it was filtering data for some reason, but nope...

I can't figure it out, and the iMac is completely unusable until I get that data back onto it. If I can't do it by tomorrow afternoon, it's getting formatted and I'm putting 10.1 back on. That'd be a shame.

[Drizzt]

I'm getting better speed under 10.2..

I'm getting arround 6-8MB/sec with a Gosshamer, and I still get the darn 3MB/Sec with my Linux PC (crappy hardware).

I don't think the problem is 10.2..

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Drizzt:
I'm getting better speed under 10.2..

I'm getting arround 6-8MB/sec with a Gosshamer, and I still get the darn 3MB/Sec with my Linux PC (crappy hardware).

I don't think the problem is 10.2..

That's what I mean. It's messed up.

10.1.5 -> 10.1.5 was fast, an hour ago (I now only have one 10.1.5 machine)

Now 10.1.5 -> 10.2
or
10.2 -> 10.2
is slow.

It makes no sense. The hardware setup has not changed at all. All systems report full duplex 100 Mbit connections.

I'm lost.

[Drizzt]

Try to defragm your HDs, or redo the prebinding..

In case off..

[Xeo]

I just noticed it last night. Copying 1 hop over a 100 Mb switch was extremely slow. Today, it is copying faster but it still stalled every few seconds. I'm not sure what's up.

I just tried FTP. I'm pretty sure it's faster but with AFP I don't have a X MB/s to go by. I was getting 5.3 MB/s from a 10.2 machine to a 10.2 machine on the same 100 Mb switch. Then, from the 10.2 machine to my campus server which is probably a dozen hops away, I was getting about 8.5 MB/s. That makes no sense at all. This was using the command-line FTP client.

[pat++]

I noticed Jaguar is *VERY* slow for file sharing. I hope this will be fixed *REALLY* soon with all other bugs...

[IamBob]

I'd blame Ron Day Voo.

[Nebagakid]

Cipher, Is it possible to get the two computers close enough to do FireWire Target Disk Mode? i mean, if the reason you are not doing that already is that they are too far away, but...that would make it blazing fast!

[dscottbuch]

I've had somwhat the opposite experience, but with an iMac 700mHz running 9.2.2

copy from 10.1.5 to 9.2.2 using 10.1.5 slow (~0.5 mB/sec)

copy from 10.1.5 to 9.2.2 using 9.2.2 fast (~4-3 mB/sec)

now with 10.2 go cases are fast (3-4 mB/sec)

[fulmer]

I've never been happy with copying speeds via file sharing in any version of OS X.

[billybob]

Weird?

I have 2 macs, one of them with 10.2 and one with 10.1.5. Before I had 10.2 they were both running 10.1.5. Copying via AFP over my 100meg router, I get about 10 megabytes per second, which is nearly full speed. With my current setup and my previous one.

I wish I could offer some ideas, but I have no idea what it could be.

[Gee4orce]

Does anyone else get interminable delays actually connecting to an AFP share ?? I mean, 30 seconds or more just to find the server, then even longer to actually authenticate and show the volumes selection panel. This is with 10.1.5

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Gee4orce:
Does anyone else get interminable delays actually connecting to an AFP share ?? I mean, 30 seconds or more just to find the server, then even longer to actually authenticate and show the volumes selection panel. This is with 10.1.5

Yes - it didn't happen initially (when the file transfers were slow), but after a few times that started happening, whether via AppleTalk or AFP. Now it's slow on top of taking forever to find, authenticate, log in, and display contents.

Originally posted by Nebagakid:
Cipher, Is it possible to get the two computers close enough to do FireWire Target Disk Mode? i mean, if the reason you are not doing that already is that they are too far away, but...that would make it blazing fast!

Unfortunately not. I don't have a 6 pin to 6 pin FW cable, but even if I did, I can't go moving the systems around too much. I could this once if I had one, but that'd be avoiding a problem I'm going to have to fix anyway.

It might be worth it to get a 6-6 FW cable regardless...

I also blame Rendezvous. Why? Eh, it's all I can think of that's common in every case. More specifically than 10.2, that is.

[Cipher13]

Okay, I just tried FTP from the G4 (10.1.5) to the iMac (10.2), and it started at ~70 K/s (that was reported - it never went that fast), and decreased until it settled at it's real speed - 6K/s.

So in theory, it's running at a little under the theoretical max speed of a 56K modem.

It's not a problem isolated to AFP - it's AFP and FTP so far. I'm stumped.

[noliv]

That may sound stupid, but, can you just isolate two macs, link them with one ethernet cross-cable, use a manual network configuration (Is it possible to disable RendezVous?) and try afp...

Or if you don't want to realy isolate the 2 Macs, put them on a different subnet...

I don't know... er...

What about using samba to share files ? (just to verify that the same problem occurs...)

[MacFan]

My transfer speed is much better with 10.2 in my experiences.

[Drizzt]

I've seen this problem once with a iBook and a Linux box.. but we didn't find a solution..

[Gee4orce]

Phone apple support - I think support is included as part of the cost of the OS upgrade. You did buy it, didn't you ?

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by Gee4orce:
Phone apple support - I think support is included as part of the cost of the OS upgrade. You did buy it, didn't you ?

I'm not having the problem, so I'm not caring about it

[cwasko]

I've got no problems:

B&W G3 10.2 (EN) -=> iBook 600MHz 10.1.5 (AirPort).
B&W G3 10.2 (EN) <=- iBook 600MHz 10.1.5 (AirPort).

I've tried a few different transfer methods: TB2, AFP, FTP and all go at about 600 kB/s. I could try soley EN on both of them...

[alex_kac]

I believe the issue is how OS X negotiates on a 100TX switch or something. I've heard that if you change it to half-duplex - it works amazingly fast in places that is slow using full duplex.

This was on macintouch a while back.

[ratlater]

Originally posted by alex_kac:
I believe the issue is how OS X negotiates on a 100TX switch or something. I've heard that if you change it to half-duplex - it works amazingly fast in places that is slow using full duplex.

This was on macintouch a while back.

This is probably it. I see problems like this all the time at my work. If switch/hub port and your ethernet ifc don't agree, transfers become very slow. You can use ifconfig en0 to see whether your ethernet ifc is running at full-duplex, or has negotiated down to half-duplex.

What kind of hub/switch are you using to network the machines?

Also, I've experienced much faster AFP transfers using 10.2 on an iBook 600 talking wirelessly to a G4 running 10.1.5. Seems at least 25% faster.

-matt

[cwasko]

I'm using a 100BaseT hub and the 10.2 machine is on 100baseTX, Half Duplex. The 10.1.5 machine is on an AirPort and is 10baseT. I'm going to make the assumption that it is on Half Duplex.

[edddeduck]

I had a try on a 100Mbit through a hub and it is very fast 4-7MB per sec..

Noware near you speeds..

Could it be HW specific?

My machines are iBook 600, G4 MP450 and a 266 iMac.

Good luck fixing the problem.

Cheers Edwin

[pat++]

Can anyone try this:

Mount a dis/folder over afp. (This disk should contain a disk image).
Mount the disk image remotely (from the mounted disk).
Unmount the disk image.
Copy the disk image locally from the mounted disk.
There are good chances that you will get SUPER SLOW transfer rate...

[Gee4orce]

Originally posted by Drizzt:


I'm not having the problem, so I'm not caring about it

Sorry - I was aiming that comment at Cipher...

I had another hair-pulling experience with File Sharing last night. The Finder, Terminal and my synch application just ground to a complete halt whenever I had an AppleShare volume mounted - which kind of makes synching my laptop and desktop hard !

In the end, I resorted to restarting the laptop - and would you belive it, everything worked great after ! I'm wondering if the afp process can sometimes get itself tied in knots and stop responding. Next time, I'll try HUP-ing the process from the Terminal and see if that works.

[Cipher13]

How can I switch it down to half duplex software-wise?

Farallon NetLINE 10/100 Switch... using built in NIC's.

[Cipher13]

Well, via crossover they simply didn't want to talk.

I plugged each into the 10 meg hub, and they're happily transferring files at under 1 MB/sec - nonetheless 200 times faster than through the 100 meg switch.

This is one hell of a bug, and I better not have to wake "3-4 weeks for an update".

[real]

At risk of sounding like a idiot what the heck is AFP, is it file sharing other than useing the biult in file sharing in OSX,
Cipher Everything is slow in OSX dont you know anythingJust alittle joke I hope we can all find a fix or apple better.
REAL

[maxelson]

I'm thinking you got something up, then. I just transferred a 128 meg file from a G4 500 to an original iBook and it took all of 15-20 seconds or so. In fact, I did an entire backup and restore of all of the iBooks files after a complete wipe and upgrade from 10.1.5 to 10.2. Host machines were a Ti667 and G4 500. No speed issues to speak of.
I do file transfers all day at work with all kinds of Macs 9.1 to 10.2. All kinds of setups- direct thru autosensing, x-over, hub, switch- you name it, I am doing it... probably. No issues with 10.2.

[SMacTech]

Originally posted by Cipher13:
How can I switch it down to half duplex software-wise?

This sounds like an auto-negotiation problems with your NIC and switch. I assume you have an unmanaged switch/hub that you cannot change speeds or disable auto-negotiation.

[SMacTech]

Originally posted by Gee4orce:
Does anyone else get interminable delays actually connecting to an AFP share ?? I mean, 30 seconds or more just to find the server, then even longer to actually authenticate and show the volumes selection panel. This is with 10.1.5

I get delays of 5 seconds or so finding the Win2k server and another 5 seconds or so before I can select which volumes to mount. My solution was to create an alias, which made it much much faster, almost instantaneous.
This was in 10.1.5, I will have 10.2 tomorrow with my new dual 867

[foamy]

Although I have no solutions, I think the problem lies in what's between the two macs. Maybe the switch or router.

At my previous work, we constantly had problems with 10.2 and file transfers via afp. The biggest issue was that we could download at full speed, 7-9MB/s, but we could only upload at ~170K/s. It would change depending upon which version of OSX. Public beta was hosed, 10.0 worked. 10.1 was hosed, 10.1.x worked.

I bet at Apple HQ their routers/switches work fine with OSX, so nobody can really track down the problems.

[normyzo]

Originally posted by foamy:
Although I have no solutions, I think the problem lies in what's between the two macs. Maybe the switch or router.

At my previous work, we constantly had problems with 10.2 and file transfers via afp. The biggest issue was that we could download at full speed, 7-9MB/s, but we could only upload at ~170K/s. It would change depending upon which version of OSX. Public beta was hosed, 10.0 worked. 10.1 was hosed, 10.1.x worked.

I bet at Apple HQ their routers/switches work fine with OSX, so nobody can really track down the problems.

Had many problems with this. It is almost definitely a switch/hub issue more than a single machine issue.

A story:
About 2 years ago I purchased a Farallon switch, with 2 100Mb ports and 8 10mb ports. I had computers capable of 100mb operation. My cables were all Cat5 and good. But transferring stuff between anything connected to the 2 100 ports was painful, and would finally stall. For example, I had my Mac connected to one 100mb port and a quad Pentium Pro running FreeBSD on the other 100Mb port. FTP speed was abysmal. So was AFP (using netatalk on the BSD box). This was iwth both OS 9 and OS 10.0 and OS 10.1.

Well, if you plugged one or the other into a 10mb port things would sing at around 800k/s, the practical max of 10baseT. Also, if I tried to uplink the switch to another 100mb switch to which was connected a Win2k box, it was damn slow between Mac (100mb port) and the 2k box.

I bought a new 100mb switch and things work fine now, no matter what OS.

The moral of this story is: Autonegotiation (N-Way) doesn't work reliably. In fact, the _recommended_ thing to do is to force your managed switches/hubs to 100mb/full and force the Mac to 100mb/full, or at least force each to the same thing. If you have an unmanaged switch, you may be out of luck.

So, the moral is: choose your switch well. Its probably not the OS.

Like was said before, test with a crossover cable. Also, newer Macs autosense when two Macs are plugged together without a switch, so try a _non_ crossover cable _and_ a crossover cable and one will work.

Dan

[krove]

I haven't tested a 10.2 -> 10.2 yet but I have been doing quite a bit of transferring from 10.2 -> 10.1.5 and it is just as fast or faster than 10.1.5 -> 10.1.5

Most notably, after entering the ip to connect to the computer, 10.2 immediately allows be to enter my login/pw info. 10.1.5 would usually sit at this point with the spinning beachball for 5 seconds and then let me enter my log/pass. 10.2 is definitely a lot better for me on my iMac 400 Mhz than 10.1.5 with respect to file sharing.

[wadesworld]

Let's be very clear here folks.

If it is a problem with auto-negotiation, it is NOT an Apple bug. There is no standard for auto-negotiation, so it's very hit and miss with EVERY vendor

The solution is to configure the switch manually, and set the Mac manually.

Wade

[DannyVTim]

From reading the posts it seem that the problem is with either the hub or AFP.

I have to say I have linksys and cisco routers and haven't had any problems. I file share between a mac a PCs, so I don't use AFP. But, I've always had good transfer speeds. I use curl a lot over the net and get 60/k sec over a DSL line and that's the real world limit of the line. Now, the secure login bug with ftp is the only network bug for me.

Can anyone using a cisco router and AFP offer any comments?

[Drizzt]

Originally posted by DannyVTim:
From reading the posts it seem that the problem is with either the hub or AFP.

I have to say I have linksys and cisco routers and haven't had any problems. I file share between a mac a PCs, so I don't use AFP. But, I've always had good transfer speeds. I use curl a lot over the net and get 60/k sec over a DSL line and that's the real world limit of the line. Now, the secure login bug with ftp is the only network bug for me.

Can anyone using a cisco router and AFP offer any comments?

Where I did my internshipt we had ciscos and no problems, here I have a DLink 5 port switch and no problems..