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OldManMac · Feb 28, 2006, 12:59 PM

Sadly, far too many of you here most likely don't have a clue as to who Ike was, and the old saying, those who forget history are bound to repeat it, is true. After you read this, make sure to check under your bed for terrorists. You won't find any, but it will no doubt make you feel better, because that's what your "leader" wants you to do.

http://www.commondreams.org/cgi-bin/...06/0227-29.htm

by Bob Herbert

Early in the documentary film "Why We Fight," Wilton Sekzer, a retired New York City police officer whose son was killed in the World Trade Center attack, describes his personal feelings in the immediate aftermath of Sept. 11.

"Somebody had to pay for this," he says. "Somebody had to pay for 9/11. ... I wanna see their bodies stacked up for what they did. For taking my son."

Lost in the agony of his grief, Mr. Sekzer wanted revenge. He wanted the government to go after the bad guys, and when the government said the bad guys were in Iraq, he didn't argue.

For most of his life Mr. Sekzer was a patriot straight out of central casting. His view was always "If the bugle calls, you go." When he was 21 he was a gunner on a helicopter in Vietnam. He didn't question his country's motives. He was more than willing to place his trust in the leadership of the nation he loved.

"Why We Fight," a thoughtful, first-rate movie directed by Eugene Jarecki, is largely about how misplaced that trust has become. The central figure in the film is not Mr. Jarecki, but Dwight Eisenhower, the Republican president who had been the supreme Allied commander in Europe in World War II, and who famously warned us at the end of his second term about the profound danger inherent in the rise of the military-industrial complex.

Ike warned us, but we didn't listen. That's the theme the movie explores.

Eisenhower delivered his farewell address to a national television and radio audience in January 1961. "This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience," he said. He recognized that this development was essential to the defense of the nation. But he warned that "we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications."

"The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist," he said. "We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes." It was as if this president, who understood war as well or better than any American who ever lived, were somehow able to peer into the future and see the tail of the military-industrial complex wagging the dog of American life, with inevitably disastrous consequences.

The endless billions to be reaped from the horrors of war are a perennial incentive to invest in the war machine and to keep those wars a-coming. "His words have unfortunately come true," says Senator John McCain in the film. "He was worried that priorities are set by what benefits corporations as opposed to what benefits the country."

The way you keep the wars coming is to keep the populace in a state of perpetual fear. That allows you to continue the insane feeding of the military-industrial complex at the expense of the rest of the nation's needs. "Before long," said Mr. Jarecki in an interview, "the military ends up so overempowered that the rest of your national life has been allowed to atrophy."

In one of the great deceptive maneuvers in U.S. history, the military-industrial complex (with George W. Bush and Dick Cheney as chairman and C.E.O., respectively) took its eye off the real enemy in Afghanistan and launched the pointless but far more remunerative war in Iraq.

If you want to get a chill, just consider the tragic chaos in present-day Iraq (seven G.I.'s were killed on the day I went to see "Why We Fight") and then listen to Susan Eisenhower in the film recalling a quotation attributed to her grandfather: "God help this country when somebody sits at this desk who doesn't know as much about the military as I do."

The military-industrial complex has become so pervasive that it is now, as one of the figures in the movie notes, all but invisible. Its missions and priorities are poorly understood by most Americans, and frequently counter to their interests.

Near the end of the movie, Mr. Sekzer, the New York cop who lost his son on Sept. 11, describes his reaction to President Bush's belated acknowledgment that "we've had no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved" in the Sept. 11 attacks.

"What the hell did we go in there for?" Mr. Sekzer asks.

Unable to hide his bitterness, he says: "The government exploited my feelings of patriotism, of a deep desire for revenge for what happened to my son. But I was so insane with wanting to get even, I was willing to believe anything."

NYCFarmboy · Feb 28, 2006, 01:01 PM

you people who hate Bush just don't get it.

Dork. · Feb 28, 2006, 01:32 PM

The real question underlying all this, KarlG, is this:

Why does Dwight Eisenhower hate America?

olePigeon · Feb 28, 2006, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by NYCFarmboy

you people who hate Bush just don't get it.

Elighten us.

moodymonster · Feb 28, 2006, 01:50 PM

Originally Posted by NYCFarmboy

you people who hate Bush just don't get it.

given your sig and the article, I really don't understand your post.

OldManMac · 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by NYCFarmboy

you people who hate Bush just don't get it.

About the simplistic response I expected from you, who quite obviously thinks everything is "right" or "left". Thankfully, I'm not worried about whether you think I get it or not. This has very little to do with Bush in a direct manner, although I can understand why you'd want to think it does, as it makes it easier for you to pat yourself on the back for being "right." Denial is not the river in Egypt.

OldManMac · Feb 28, 2006, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by Dork.

The real question underlying all this, KarlG, is this:

Why does Dwight Eisenhower hate America?

That's not the real question, and sadly, I doubt you know that. BTW, Ike has been dead for decades, so he can't hate America, as he currently has no feelings or cognisant capabilities. When he was alive, I have no doubt that he loved America. He was a greater statesman than anyone on the scene today, Republican or Democrat, and one of the greatest American heroes of all time. If you knew anything about history, which you obviously don't, you'd know better than to post your inane question. Try real hard, and you might be able to connect the dots between then and today. Just don't strain yourself, as I'm sure you normally don't anyway.

Y3a · Feb 28, 2006, 02:00 PM

Complaints from the leftists, and whining as usual, but NEVER ANY SOLUTIONS.

Dakar · Feb 28, 2006, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by KarlG

That's not the real question, and sadly, I doubt you know that. BTW, Ike has been dead for decades, so he can't hate America, as he currently has no feelings or cognisant capabilities. When he was alive, I have no doubt that he loved America. He was a greater statesman than anyone on the scene today, Republican or Democrat, and one of the greatest American heroes of all time. If you knew anything about history, which you obviously don't, you'd know better than to post your inane question. Try real hard, and you might be able to connect the dots between then and today. Just don't strain yourself, as I'm sure you normally don't anyway.

I think he was making a joke.

puppetswhokill · Feb 28, 2006, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by NYCFarmboy

you people who hate Bush just don't get it.

That's the thing boy, they do get it.

moodymonster · Feb 28, 2006, 03:41 PM

it all changed after 9/11 - what Ike said isn't applicable now

(being sarcastic btw)

Dork. · Feb 28, 2006, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by KarlG

That's not the real question, and sadly, I doubt you know that. BTW, Ike has been dead for decades, so he can't hate America, as he currently has no feelings or cognisant capabilities. When he was alive, I have no doubt that he loved America. He was a greater statesman than anyone on the scene today, Republican or Democrat, and one of the greatest American heroes of all time. If you knew anything about history, which you obviously don't, you'd know better than to post your inane question. Try real hard, and you might be able to connect the dots between then and today. Just don't strain yourself, as I'm sure you normally don't anyway.

But everyone who isn't 100% in favor of the war effort hates America. Didn't you get the memo?

Jawbone54 · Mar 1, 2006, 01:18 AM

I'm a very conservative independent who has some issues with the war in Iraq. I do believe that we were right in going, but I'm concerned about the way it was handled once we were in. I take issue with Bush on MANY issues. I believe there are some valid points made by people in this thread and others (though there's some garbage as well)...

Having said that, some of your attitudes towards people who disagree with you are less than civil (huge understatement). I thought liberalism promoted "tolerance" and "diologue?"

Jawbone54 · Mar 1, 2006, 01:21 AM

Originally Posted by KarlG

If you knew anything about history, which you obviously don't, you'd know better than to post your inane question. Try real hard, and you might be able to connect the dots between then and today. Just don't strain yourself, as I'm sure you normally don't anyway.

Case in point.

Kevin · Mar 1, 2006, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by puppetswhokill

That's the thing boy, they do get it.

No actually they don't. The Bush haters in here have over and over proved in this part of the forum, they just don't get it. They live in a fairy tale land. They also live in a land of hateful political zealotry.

There are people in here that would love to see Bush fail, even if it meant harm to American. Some even hope harm does come.

It's sickening.

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

I'm a very conservative independent who has some issues with the war in Iraq. I do believe that we were right in going, but I'm concerned about the way it was handled once we were in. I take issue with Bush on MANY issues. I believe there are some valid points made by people in this thread and others (though there's some garbage as well)...

Having said that, some of your attitudes towards people who disagree with you are less than civil (huge understatement). I thought liberalism promoted "tolerance" and "diologue?"

Liberalism promotes liberalism and casts out anything it doesn't like.

Being Liberal and open minded seems to mean "Liking people and accepting people who think just like you"

Nothing different from anyone else. It's just a marketing ploy.

Atomic Rooster · Mar 1, 2006, 05:59 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

No actually they don't. The Bush haters in here have over and over proved in this part of the forum, they just don't get it. They live in a fairy tale land. They also live in a land of hateful political zealotry.

There are people in here that would love to see Bush fail, even if it meant harm to American. Some even hope harm does come.

It's sickening.

Well, he has failed and he has harmed the U.S.

And I'm very sickened indeed.