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rageman · Jan 21, 2009, 01:37 PM

Alright, without taking an actual class, can anyone recommend a good place to get started with Flash? I am designer with 10+ years of experience in print media, but very limited experience in interactive media. I am in an out of the Adobe CS all day so I am familiar these types of applications, but not familiar with the nomenclature/tools/workflow associated with Flash. Or should I just sign up for a community ed class to get the basics?

besson3c · Jan 23, 2009, 03:35 PM

Honestly, if you are using Flash thinking that you will use it to make websites, I wouldn't bother with it. Flash is being slowly replaced by Javascript toolkits like Scriptaculous in a number of instances, and in others it is just too expensive and impractical to use it with a CMS. Flash is obviously where it is at for full scale animation, but there is also the issue of whether this adds to a website in a substantial way in a cost effective manner?

If none of this applies to you, carry on, just giving you my two cents

GSixZero · Jan 23, 2009, 05:03 PM

There are a bunch of books that can get you started. All of the information is available online too, but I prefer the consistency and breadth of a book rather than trying to piece information together from different sites and different authors. Usually the intro books are well suited to sitting down with and going through the first few chapters. Once you learn the terms and what's possible, you'll be set.

I can't specifically recommend a book since the ones I used are a few years old now, but I'm sure amazon will have something to suit your needs.

rageman · Jan 23, 2009, 05:49 PM

Sounds like books would be the best place to start. I am not looking to make entire websites, but being familiar with the application and its functions would serve me well. I guess I see it as another tool to use.

design219 · Jan 24, 2009, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Flash is being slowly replaced by Javascript toolkits

Meh, I don't agree at all. Flash is a great tool. Is also has more saturation of browsers (the Flash player installed) than browsers with javaScript turned on. There are many, many things you can do with Flash that cannot be approached with javaScript.

It's rare that you would want too, but I have created a few websites that are entirely Flash. There are some trade-offs to doing that, but in some cases it's just the tool.

As for learning, Flash is very different than working with html, css, javaScript, etc. Your background with the rest of the CS suit will certainly help you find your way around. I would suggest starting with the tutorials of the manual and then go to Flash Kit tutorials and just work on ones that look interesting. There is no better way to learn Flash than just doing projects.

And finally, keep in mind that there is not a finish gate with Flash. I've been working with it for many years and I still learn new techniques with every project.

besson3c · Jan 24, 2009, 06:29 PM

I'm not sure that the argument about Flash being more prevalent than browsers with Javascript enabled is terribly relevant, it is safe for any designer to assume that both will be present and available.

I agree that there are many things that Javascript won't do, but my point is that for a little splash of animation as Flash has often been used for in the past, it is no longer necessary. There are several downsides to relying on Flash that are non issues with Javascript.

bluedog · Jan 24, 2009, 11:00 PM

Since you live in MN, take a look at http://comped.smm.org/ for their adult computer education. They usually have well versed instructors and let you refresh/retake a class within the year if you need it (not to be abused).

rageman · Jan 25, 2009, 12:17 PM

Great link - thanks! I live just outside St. Paul.

Veltliner · Jan 26, 2009, 06:03 AM

Do all flash designers use Adobe Flash, or is there a language they write on a text editor?

My next undertaking is to learn basic Javascript, which is great for anything to present images - and you don't have to buy expensive software.

KeriVit · Jan 26, 2009, 02:48 PM

I learned a ton on lynda.com

bluedog · Jan 26, 2009, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by KeriVit

I learned a ton on lynda.com

Lynda.com has an amazing set of tutorials and programs for learning just about every major business and graphics application. You can find a year subscription to their service for a semi-reasonable fee (and look online for any discount promotions, try googling lynda.com discount code).

These are in my opinion better than the roving 'trainers' that come through teaching seminars. And you can go back to them, and study them at your own pace.

Big Mac · Jan 27, 2009, 04:32 AM

How had I never heard of lynda.com before? It looks really useful.

Veltliner · Jan 27, 2009, 05:17 AM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

How had I never heard of lynda.com before? It looks really useful.

They have very well organized training courses.

Some books offer 1 month free subscription like "Photoshop CS3/cs4 one-on-one"

You should be able to get a trial membership.

andi*pandi · Jan 27, 2009, 10:13 AM

yep, lynda.com.

I took some flash classes, but found them to be introductory. I have yet to find a flash class that would take me to the advanced levels of actionscript 3, making complex websites using databases and xml etc like I've seen at FlashForward Festival. Anyone who finds such a class, point me at it.

Having worked on a large project with a developer who insisted on using jquery for everything instead of flash, it was MUCH harder to implement and get to render in all browsers than it would have been to use flash. The simplicity of layering/masking in flash for instance. In HTML, this requires shifting div layers, absolute positioning, negative margins, lots of hacks, and is a royal PITA. Of course his way, it was easier to hook into the database for the content (text, images). I wish I knew Flash well enough so we could both have had it easy.

Good books were the 24 hours series and the flash bible.

sknapp351 · Jan 27, 2009, 10:54 PM

I work for an interactive graphics agency, primarily as a digital photo editor, and we are starting to make a switch to 3D. I taught myself Maya on Lynda.com. It took me about a month and a half, and there is still much to learn, but Lynda is a great resource to get the basics down.
SAm

besson3c · Jan 27, 2009, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

yep, lynda.com.

I took some flash classes, but found them to be introductory. I have yet to find a flash class that would take me to the advanced levels of actionscript 3, making complex websites using databases and xml etc like I've seen at FlashForward Festival. Anyone who finds such a class, point me at it.

Having worked on a large project with a developer who insisted on using jquery for everything instead of flash, it was MUCH harder to implement and get to render in all browsers than it would have been to use flash. The simplicity of layering/masking in flash for instance. In HTML, this requires shifting div layers, absolute positioning, negative margins, lots of hacks, and is a royal PITA. Of course his way, it was easier to hook into the database for the content (text, images). I wish I knew Flash well enough so we could both have had it easy.

Good books were the 24 hours series and the flash bible.

Passing variables in and out of Flash is a PITA. You can do so with query strings, and Flash can fetch some stuff, but using it to simulate a CMS seems like a kludge without the Flash server which is expensive, from what I understand.

Using jQuery/Prototype might be a pain at first, but it is much better in the long run. It helps lead to a better understanding of CSS if you don't already have one, helps prevent having to activate a plugin and relying on an external application, and is much faster. Plus, it can actually interact with the DOM in ways that Flash cannot, which is tremendously useful.

Flash definitely has its uses, but I think it is a great candidate for the prize of most misused tool. It is so rare that I actually see Flash used in a way that impresses me. I kind of feel this way about the entire set of Adobe web tools - either I don't like them (e.g. Dreamweaver) or I haven't really figured out a good use for them (e.g. Flex, Spry, Air).

In general, I feel like if you are going to spend the time learning about stuff that is useful on the Web, there are so many other things I would recommend before the Adobe stuff.

besson3c · Jan 27, 2009, 11:48 PM

If anybody cares, this is a work in progress of mine, but this entire site (i.e. page switching, page switch transitions, menus, and soon the join email list once I configure it to use Modalbox) was done without Flash, except for the media player.

Veltliner · Jan 28, 2009, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

If anybody cares, this is a work in progress of mine, but this entire site (i.e. page switching, page switch transitions, menus, and soon the join email list once I configure it to use Modalbox) was done without Flash, except for the media player.

Love it! Especially with the easily accessible music player. Also the constant size of the top panel, but with the images changing.

design219 · Jan 28, 2009, 04:31 PM

Nice work besson. One question, why did you not let the background graphic go all the way down the page? The changing height of the content area with each page is a little unsettling on a large monitor.

besson3c · Jan 28, 2009, 04:42 PM

That's what the client wanted, design219... He was thinking that it would provide more space for content and require less vertical scrolling that way.

design219 · Jan 28, 2009, 05:35 PM

But as a background element it would not require any scrolling but would tile to fit the browser size. Clients are fun sometimes.

besson3c · Jan 28, 2009, 05:54 PM

What do you mean by tile? Do you mean the background pattern would repeat? Regardless, the content of the page needs to start below where the masthead ends, no?

design219 · Jan 28, 2009, 06:06 PM

Yes, repeat on the y axis, or just repeat "center" in the background of the body tag in your CSS.

besson3c · Jan 28, 2009, 06:09 PM

I forgot to mention that another technique used in this site is sprites. The nav bar is setup this way. Sprites + Firebug = way better and faster technique than slicing up a single image into a much of smaller images.