[swrate]

Originally posted by Millennium:
They only had to be good enough to fly the planes into some of the largest buildings in the world. That's not all that difficult; the biggest problem would be learning the controls.

room full of mirrors� here
911 allegations, spinning in versions
no need for Mecca�s boycotted coke.
Imagination changes wind and rain into sunshine.

We read many conspiracy theories
First article 1.0 version

1/ The hijackers were not fanatical Islamic fundamentalists---- the article states, putting into evidence that the hijackers were �Americanised and enjoyed quite wild, hedonistic lifestyles�

Executors perfect holy fanatics? Not sure,, for a plan to work out, and to move around unsuspected, terrorists would receive the orders to melt in a crowd. imo
The life of a killer holds to a thin thread, why would he not go to prostitutes, and enjoy his last moments before dying in the name of Allah?

Another point: �Termithes demolition?�
The WTC�s towers collapse looked like an anthill falling, yes, but how do the scientists know the heat stress wasn�t adequate? Praise to all those complicated calculations, but I doubt anyone was there to measure the effective heat. Heat spreads very fast through steel, the floors could of slid, the WTC had huge portions relying only on those steel grids .

6/ The Ultra-rightwing agenda already in place for a war against the Arab States---

seems a little far fetched to me, but then we never now. Reality is stranger then fiction.
I am sceptical, i.e. a scholar who has an hypotheses, often manages to find facts matching his theory, or at least he twists the facts so they fit, convincing first himself and then others. Its difficult not to be influenced by ones personal opinions, this is why chronologies for example vary from one scholar to the next (especially BC) and each "historian uses �evidence� differently to prove he is right.

[wireframe]

What interests me is the story of how the US had planned a very similar incident during the Cuban affair. Design an attrocity of a magnitude unheard of before, stirring up support for a political motive, ie. war. That shook me, reading how the US planned to either fly planes into the ground, or engineer an act on their own people.

It seems like the template for 9/11 had been around for over 30 years prior. Still, it';s a crazy world and I wouldn't put anything past anyone, or any government.

[wireframe]

Originally posted by swrate:


Another point: �Termithes demolition?�
The WTC�s towers collapse looked like an anthill falling, yes, but how do the scientists know the heat stress wasn�t adequate? Praise to all those complicated calculations, but I doubt anyone was there to measure the effective heat. Heat spreads very fast through steel, the floors could of slid, the WTC had huge portions relying only on those steel grids .

6/ The Ultra-rightwing agenda already in place for a war against the Arab States---

seems a little far fetched to me, but then we never now. Reality is stranger then fiction.
I am sceptical, i.e. a scholar who has an hypotheses, often manages to find facts matching his theory, or at least he twists the facts so they fit, convincing first himself and then others. Its difficult not to be influenced by ones personal opinions, this is why chronologies for example vary from one scholar to the next (especially BC) and each "historian uses �evidence� differently to prove he is right.

After reading those pages, and following some of the links, I'd agree in some respects to how the buildings collapsed, as well as the theory of a controlled demolition (I'm a structural engineer). It's something that was ringing through my head when I sat and watched the events on 9/11 on tv. Within the industry, there's been so much debate as to how they could have collapsed and why.
Personally, I'm still not entirely convinced that the two planes (plus the other theory of the furniture) could have melted the steel in the time, and manner in which it did. No matter what the common opinion on it being circulated is, there are still some very big holes in what is being presented to us.
Anyway, there's so many other anomalies in this story, and the fact that conspiracy theorists have latched on to them, that it can be hard to hear those who do have something credible to say. It's not just the tinfoil hat brigade that is pushing these ideas forward, you'll find many in the industry, or industries who have just as many questions too.

The Arab issue: well, again, I've seen too many examples of Governments engineering events, using duplicity, and developing events for their own gain, to not dismiss that anyone could design such an event to create the pre-text for war.

This following article has stuck in my mind since it was published in The Times paper:


"The United States of America Has Gone Mad


America has entered one of its periods of historical madness, but this is the worst I can remember: worse than McCarthyism, worse than the Bay of Pigs and in the long term potentially more disastrous than the Vietnam War.


The reaction to 9/11 is beyond anything Osama bin Laden could have hoped for in his nastiest dreams. As in McCarthy times, the freedoms that have made America the envy of the world are being systematically eroded. The combination of compliant US media and vested corporate interests is once more ensuring that a debate that should be ringing out in every town square is confined to the loftier columns of the East Coast press.


The imminent war was planned years before bin Laden struck, but it was he who made it possible. Without bin Laden, the Bush junta would still be trying to explain such tricky matters as how it came to be elected in the first place; Enron; its shameless favouring of the already-too-rich; its reckless disregard for the world's poor, the ecology and a raft of unilaterally abrogated international treaties. They might also have to be telling us why they support Israel in its continuing disregard for UN resolutions. But bin Laden conveniently swept all that under the carpet.


The Bushies are riding high. Now 88 per cent of Americans want the war, we are told. The US defence budget has been raised by another $ 60 billion to around $ 360 billion. A splendid new generation of nuclear weapons is in the pipeline, so we can all breathe easy. Quite what war 88 per cent of Americans think they are supporting is a lot less clear. A war for how long, please? At what cost in American lives? At what cost to the American taxpayer's pocket? At what cost - because most of those 88 per cent are thoroughly decent and humane people - in Iraqi lives?


How Bush and his junta succeeded in deflecting America's anger from bin Laden to Saddam Hussein is one of the great public relations conjuring tricks of history. But they swung it. A recent poll tells us that one in two Americans now believe Saddam was responsible for the attack on the World Trade Centre. But the American public is not merely being misled. It is being browbeaten and kept in a state of ignorance and fear. The carefully orchestrated neurosis should carry Bush and his fellow conspirators nicely into the next election.


Those who are not with Mr Bush are against him. Worse, they are with the enemy. Which is odd, because I'm dead against Bush, but I would love to see Saddam's downfall - just not on Bush's terms and not by his methods. And not under the banner of such outrageous hypocrisy.


The religious cant that will send American troops into battle is perhaps the most sickening aspect of this surreal war-to-be. Bush has an arm-lock on God. And God has very particular political opinions. God appointed America to save the world in any way that suits America. God appointed Israel to be the nexus of America's Middle Eastern policy, and anyone who wants to mess with that idea is a) anti-Semitic, b) anti-American, c) with the enemy, and d) a terrorist.

[wireframe]

Sorry, will have to post the rest in this post, didn't realise there was a limit on the length.

"

God also has pretty scary connections. In America, where all men are equal in His sight, if not in one another's, the Bush family numbers one President, one ex-President, one ex-head of the CIA, the Governor of Florida and the ex-Governor of Texas.


Care for a few pointers? George W. Bush, 1978-84: senior executive, Arbusto Energy/Bush Exploration, an oil company; 1986-90: senior executive of the Harken oil company. Dick Cheney, 1995-2000: chief executive of the Halliburton oil company. Condoleezza Rice, 1991-2000: senior executive with the Chevron oil company, which named an oil tanker after her. And so on. But none of these trifling associations affects the integrity of God's work.


In 1993, while ex-President George Bush was visiting the ever-democratic Kingdom of Kuwait to receive thanks for liberating them, somebody tried to kill him. The CIA believes that "somebody" was Saddam. Hence Bush Jr's cry: "That man tried to kill my Daddy." But it's still not personal, this war. It's still necessary. It's still God's work. It's still about bringing freedom and democracy to oppressed Iraqi people.


To be a member of the team you must also believe in Absolute Good and Absolute Evil, and Bush, with a lot of help from his friends, family and God, is there to tell us which is which. What Bush won't tell us is the truth about why we're going to war. What is at stake is not an Axis of Evil - but oil, money and people's lives. Saddam's misfortune is to sit on the second biggest oilfield in the world. Bush wants it, and who helps him get it will receive a piece of the cake. And who doesn't, won't.


If Saddam didn't have the oil, he could torture his citizens to his heart's content. Other leaders do it every day - think Saudi Arabia, think Pakistan, think Turkey, think Syria, think Egypt.


Baghdad represents no clear and present danger to its neighbours, and none to the US or Britain. Saddam's weapons of mass destruction, if he's still got them, will be peanuts by comparison with the stuff Israel or America could hurl at him at five minutes' notice. What is at stake is not an imminent military or terrorist threat, but the economic imperative of US growth. What is at stake is America's need to demonstrate its military power to all of us - to Europe and Russia and China, and poor mad little North Korea, as well as the Middle East; to show who rules America at home, and who is to be ruled by America abroad.


The most charitable interpretation of Tony Blair's part in all this is that he believed that, by riding the tiger, he could steer it. He can't. Instead, he gave it a phoney legitimacy, and a smooth voice. Now I fear, the same tiger has him penned into a corner, and he can't get out.


It is utterly laughable that, at a time when Blair has talked himself against the ropes, neither of Britain's opposition leaders can lay a glove on him. But that's Britain's tragedy, as it is America's: as our Governments spin, lie and lose their credibility, the electorate simply shrugs and looks the other way. Blair's best chance of personal survival must be that, at the eleventh hour, world protest and an improbably emboldened UN will force Bush to put his gun back in his holster unfired. But what happens when the world's greatest cowboy rides back into town without a tyrant's head to wave at the boys?


Blair's worst chance is that, with or without the UN, he will drag us into a war that, if the will to negotiate energetically had ever been there, could have been avoided; a war that has been no more democratically debated in Britain than it has in America or at the UN. By doing so, Blair will have set back our relations with Europe and the Middle East for decades to come. He will have helped to provoke unforeseeable retaliation, great domestic unrest, and regional chaos in the Middle East. Welcome to the party of the ethical foreign policy.


There is a middle way, but it's a tough one: Bush dives in without UN approval and Blair stays on the bank. Goodbye to the special relationship.


I cringe when I hear my Prime Minister lend his head prefect's sophistries to this colonialist adventure. His very real anxieties about terror are shared by all sane men. What he can't explain is how he reconciles a global assault on al-Qaeda with a territorial assault on Iraq. We are in this war, if it takes place, to secure the fig leaf of our special relationship, to grab our share of the oil pot, and because, after all the public hand-holding in Washington and Camp David, Blair has to show up at the altar.


"But will we win, Daddy?"


"Of course, child. It will all be over while you're still in bed."


"Why?"


"Because otherwise Mr Bush's voters will get terribly impatient and may decide not to vote for him."


"But will people be killed, Daddy?"


"Nobody you know, darling. Just foreign people."


"Can I watch it on television?"


"Only if Mr Bush says you can."


"And afterwards, will everything be normal again?"
"Nobody will do anything horrid any more?"


"Hush child, and go to sleep."


Last Friday a friend of mine in California drove to his local supermarket with a sticker on his car saying: "Peace is also Patriotic". It was gone by the time he'd finished shopping.

By John le Carr�
Source: The Times (UK), January 15, 2003"

[vmarks]

Originally posted by Logic:
I did, Mecca Cola. Want some? Then you have to make room for me in that couch!

You realize that when you buy Mecca Cola, you're hurting the people in UAE, Syria, Bahrain, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, and the Palestinian Authority who bottle Coca-Cola? A boycott that decreases demand for Coca-Cola in those areas will eventually shut down those bottlers, putting the very people you're claiming solidarity with out of work.

That's right. Coca-Cola has had a bottling plant in the Palestinian Authority since 1998. Coca-Cola products are produced by the company's authorized bottling partner, the National Beverage Company (NBC). NBC is an independent, privately-held company owned by local Palestinian businessmen, the company (15% stake), and the investment company of the Palestinian Authority._

NBC owns and operates a bottling plant in Ramallah, a sales and distribution center in Gaza, and depots in Ramallah, Hebron and Nablus._

Drink up!

[dtriska]

Originally posted by version:
version is less credible than any conspiracy theory.

That sums it up for me.

Try not to talk in the third person anymore. It's kind of scary.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by vmarks:
You realize that when you buy Mecca Cola, you're hurting the people in UAE, Syria, Bahrain, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, and the Palestinian Authority who bottle Coca-Cola? A boycott that decreases demand for Coca-Cola in those areas will eventually shut down those bottlers, putting the very people you're claiming solidarity with out of work.

That's right. Coca-Cola has had a bottling plant in the Palestinian Authority since 1998. Coca-Cola products are produced by the company's authorized bottling partner, the National Beverage Company (NBC). NBC is an independent, privately-held company owned by local Palestinian businessmen, the company (15% stake), and the investment company of the Palestinian Authority._

NBC owns and operates a bottling plant in Ramallah, a sales and distribution center in Gaza, and depots in Ramallah, Hebron and Nablus._

Drink up!

And you realize that ALL of the Coca-Cola bought in Europe, including Iceland, is bottled locally?

In other words, buying Mecca Cola in Europe and the USA (like any shopowner who'd stock it in the States wouldn't have to fear for his life) supports those people bottling it wherever, and has absolutely NOTHING to do with those bottling plants in the Palestinian territories.

Sometimes double standards aren't, despite your agenda.

-s*

[theolein]

Originally posted by vmarks:
You realize that when you buy Mecca Cola, you're hurting the people in UAE, Syria, Bahrain, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, and the Palestinian Authority who bottle Coca-Cola? A boycott that decreases demand for Coca-Cola in those areas will eventually shut down those bottlers, putting the very people you're claiming solidarity with out of work.

...Drink up!

Funny, the bottle of Coke in front of me say "hergestellt in der Schweiz durch Coca Cola Beverages".

I think you're in general an intelligent bloke, but that must really be one of the most pathetic posts I have ever seen. So if people drink Pepsi, or perhaps just mineral water, or god forbid, perhaps even a beer when no one's looking, then they're hurting the economies of countries, amongst which, ones with which I really for the life of me cannot see you having much sympathy?

[vmarks]

I think I was pretty specific when I said, "a boycott that decreases demand for Coca-Cola in those areas" (providing competition for the local bottlers) puts those employees out of a job.

Sure, if your bottle was filled in Iceland, you've done nothing but hurt the local Iceland employee down the line, and put more money in Hamas' pocket.

Besides, how reverential is it to name a sugar-water-rot-your-teeth-soda after the holiest city?

EDIT: I just thought of this -- It is amusing that while these people are boycotting American brands (and for what specific reason and expected outcome this article leaves for us to guess), it hasn't occurred to them that Mathlouthi has taken the name of the spiritual center of Islam and used it to make money. Next: Mecca-Donald's!

[theolein]

Originally posted by vmarks:
I think I was pretty specific when I said, "a boycott that decreases demand for Coca-Cola in those areas" (providing competition for the local bottlers) puts those employees out of a job.

Sure, if your bottle was filled in Iceland, you've done nothing but hurt the local Iceland employee down the line, and put more money in Hamas' pocket.

Besides, how reverential is it to name a sugar-water-rot-your-teeth-soda after the holiest city?

EDIT: I just thought of this -- It is amusing that while these people are boycotting American brands (and for what specific reason and expected outcome this article leaves for us to guess), it hasn't occurred to them that Mathlouthi has taken the name of the spiritual center of Islam and used it to make money. Next: Mecca-Donald's!

::Rereads post, thinks it's still pathetic:: I seriously doubt that this Mecca-Cola is going to be shipped all around the globe. If it takes off it'll be bottled locally, just like all other soft drinks, and I really don't see Mecca-Cola being imported in the occupied territories right now, given its political import.

Apart from which, if you'd have bothered to type Mecca-Cola into google and look at their homepage, they claim they're a non-profit and giving 10% of their income to Palestinian Kids and 10% to local charities (whoever they might be)

Face it, your post was pathetic and about as much of a knee-jerk reaction as they come when you saw that evil word.

[vmarks]

Face it, Mecca Cola is an attempt to fight the so-called scourge of 'American-Zionist capitalism' with..... what? Morrocan-French capitalism? Irony?

Mecca Cola is now distributing throughout Yemen, Morocco, Syria, Lebanon, Sudan and Algeria and has just announced plans to open a bottling plant in the UAE, not to mention its steady expansion in Europe and plans for the Asian subcontinent. Meanwhile, Qibla Cola, the UK-based coke, is heading to Canada.

Mostly, they're distributing and importing, with just a few new bottlers opening up.

Coke launched Quwat Jabal in Oman in an attempt to widen its regional business

However, the new colas are also toning their language down. Tawfiq Mathlouthi, Mecca Cola�s CEO, told Arabian Business when his project launched over six months ago that the Arab and Muslim market was not its only target.

�Our market is everywhere people think that the Americans must stop this double standard in [their] foreign policies and helping criminals of the Zionist entities,� he said.

But six months on, at Mecca Cola�s launch in the UAE, the message was markedly different. Khaled Al Mahamed, vice-president and general manager of Mecca Cola Middle East, was quick to stress that the brand had no anti-US sentiments.

It was merely a new brand competing with all the rest. The paradigm shift suggests that, in a strange sort of way, what may be acceptable to the Muslim market in Europe may not be so easily welcomed in the Middle East. By removing the shock factor, Mecca Cola becomes a more localised brand without an underlying political objective.

This leaves these brands in a Catch 22. Their unique appeal is their Muslim flavour. Once the anti-US message disappears, however, will consumers really turn away from the established leaders?

A quick check around Dubai�s supermarkets highlights how difficult it will be for these products to grapple even a small share, particularly if there are several of them.

Ultimately, these drinks are more likely to cause a stir rather than eating into Coke and Pepsi�s 85% regional hegemony. Mecca Cola is a European company, not a regional one. They donate a percentage of profits to local charities, use emotive appeals to entice buyers, but do not contribute hugely to the local economy.

In comparison, Coke and Pepsi play a prominent role in the local economy, be it through jobs, sponsorship or educational programmes. In Saudi Arabia, Yemen, and Egypt, for example, Coke pays its employees 15% more than local franchises do.

As for the charity, Mecca-Cola said they were giving in part to Medicines without Frontiers.

The original text of this press release from MSF can be found at their french website:http://www.paris.msf.org/msf/forms/c...E?openDocument
Translation by your humble servant:

PRESS RELEASE

Disclaimer from M�decins Sans Fronti�res

Paris, November 14th, 2002.

The mecca-cola website mentions that 10% of the net profits from the sales of the beverage that bears the same name will be transfered to � european associations... such as M�decins Sans Fronti�res �. The M�decins Sans Fronti�res association states that it has never been in relation with the Mecca-Cola Foundation and denies any involvement with this operation. The association asked the people responsible for this website to remove this mention without delay. Pursuant to its funding precepts (independence from any power as well as any political, economical or religious force) M�decins Sans Fronti�res is particularly watchful pertaining to the source of its funds and leads accordingly a very strict partnership policy. Therefore, we cannnot agree to a settlement such as this one.

Further information can be obtained from MSF : Marie-Pierre Barre at +33 (0)1 40 21 28 21 - [email protected] and Laurence Hugues at +33(0)1 40 21 28 43 - [email protected].

-- End of the MSF communique.

They blew it there, and since then, Mecca-Cola's site only says "10% to a local NGO charity." As for the Palestinian charity, they state "10 % paid to Palestinian Childhood

These sums will be sent to Palestinian associations based outside Palestine or in Palestine, who have an unblemished reputation. The essential condition is the total independence of the association seeking aid, and its exclusive commitment to work in the humanitarian field. The foundation will give priority to requests for aid which are linked to skill education, the welfare of children and elderly people, and also to the preservation of the heritage and history"

- and they must have gotten nervous after the mistake with MSF, because they won't name -which- Palestinian charity, so that it can be verified whether that charity is unblemished or not.

[eklipse]

Can I still drink water? Is that okay? - or will I be promoting anti-Semitism or something?

[lil'babykitten]

Did anyone bring any chloroform? We have an uninvited guest.

[swrate]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Did anyone bring any chloroform? We have an uninvited guest.

its good medicine sometimes (coca)

The reason of the boycott was also, your posts reminded me of this,
a pic I received end 99,
the pic of a Mosque being attaked by moujahideens
and on the roof the banner of Coca Cola, in arabic.
Yes, reverse the tag of the famous Father Christmas brand
and look through, you will read, in arabic:
No Mohammed, No Mecca. (Lam Mohammed, Lam Mecca)
and in the Middle-East, the rumor spread: it was held by people of the Mossad.
propagandas
fatwas

The sales must of dropped for a few months.
now I think the story has been cleared,,,
I suppose it's the same battle the students fight in Iran
express protest against Ayatollah, (doubt he drinks coke)

how about sea water?





I lost my hard disk early this year,
all in waves, yes, reality is stranger then fiction.

[vmarks]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Did anyone bring any chloroform? We have an uninvited guest.

I see. silencing those you disagree with?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by vmarks:
I see. silencing those you disagree with?

I'm sure she meant eklipse.

And I'm not so sure she was entirely serious, but if it offended you, it's probably meant to be that way.

Insh'allah.

-s*

[vmarks]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
I'm sure she meant eklipse.

And I'm not so sure she was entirely serious, but if it offended you, it's probably meant to be that way.

Insh'allah.

-s*

Not offended, just shows the quality of her character, serious or in poor humour. Good on her!

[MacGorilla]

This bizzaro theory of the year.
Mohammad Atta, who piloted the first plane into the WTC, is shown on gate video before boarding in maine.

[lil'babykitten]

Yeah, I'm sure vmarx can give me great tips on how to be humourous, him being the biggest joker of this board.

I don't really care whether I offended you or not. I started to lose much of the respect I had for you a while ago and this most recent spew of total bullshit on your part hasn't helped.

Deal with it, einmarks.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Yeah, I'm sure vmarx can give me great tips on how to be humourous, him being the biggest joker of this board.

I don't really care whether I offended you or not. I started to lose much of the respect I had for you a while ago and this most recent spew of total bullshit on your part hasn't helped.

Deal with it.

Please stop derailing the thread.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Please stop derailing the thread.

Ah, yes - finally, one clear of mind to bring us back to the main feature of this thread: Thank you.

Now:

Did anyone bring marshmallows?

I'm sorry, Logic, we'll apparently have to do without the cola - caffeine just gets people bickery anyway -, but I'm sure you'd be willing to support the local Icelandic orange farmers by bringing along some orange juice instead?

Has anyone checked up on version lately? It's awful quiet over in his playpen.

Spliffy, roll up another one, won't you please?

::settles back in sofa::

-s*

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Please stop derailing the thread.

ROFLMAO!

You're a good one to talk, Mr!

[Logic]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Please stop derailing the thread.

I was thinking the same thing

Everything was fine, and I almost got to sit on the couch and then someone comes in and tries to blast me for bringing Mecca Cola! Damnit, if he didn't want to drink Mecca Cola he should just have brought Coca Cola!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lil'babykitten]

dp

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
Did anyone bring marshmallows?

I'm sorry, Logic, we'll apparently have to do without the cola - caffeine just gets people bickery anyway -, but I'm sure you'd be willing to support the local Icelandic orange farmers by bringing along some orange juice instead?

Oh man **** that! I just brought two boxes of the stuff! What shall I do with them now?

I got marshmallows too. Cookies anyone?

Oh-my apologies for derailing. Any room left on that sofa again?

[theolein]

Originally posted by vmarks:
.. Mecca Cola ... fight ... 'American-Zionist capitalism' ...

Mecca Cola is now distributing throughout Yemen, Morocco, Syria, Lebanon, Sudan and Algeria and has just announced plans to open a bottling plant in the UAE, not to mention its steady expansion in Europe and plans for the Asian subcontinent. Meanwhile, Qibla Cola, the UK-based coke, is heading to Canada.

Mostly, they're distributing and importing, with just a few new bottlers opening up.

....

Man, who cares? You started this utterly lame arsed flame crap because someone mentioned Mecca-Cola. If that isn't the true definition of Zimphire's knee-jerk reaction theory, then I don't know what is. What's next, an attack on Muslim members of the forum? Oh, I see you already did that . OK, well what about attacking anything with even remote connections to anything whatsoever in the Arab world? I'll give you a head start: Sinbad, Camel, Cous-Cous, Koran, Mohammed, Mecca, Red sea, Desert, bla bla bla....

Now you have enough material for five or six whole threads of stuff that doesn't interest anyone.

[Logic]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Oh man **** that! I just brought two boxes of the stuff! What shall I do with them now?

I got marshmallows too. Cookies anyone?

Oh-my apologies for derailing. Any room left on that sofa again?

Nope, I took the last seat, mwuahahahahah!!

Now perhaps we could make a deal, you can sit on my lap if you give me some marshmallows......

[vmarks]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Yeah, I'm sure vmarx can give me great tips on how to be humourous, him being the biggest joker of this board.

I don't really care whether I offended you or not. I started to lose much of the respect I had for you a while ago and this most recent spew of total bullshit on your part hasn't helped.

Deal with it, einmarks.

Of COURSE I have a sense of humor- I've always taken your jibes, jabs, assaults and insults with a smile.

Yes, yes, let's re-hash- I always treated you with the utmost respect. Yet you chose to decide that some other user was me (he wasn't. ThinkInsane even did an IP check and verified it for you.)

Instead, you not only don't care who you offend, you decide that a discussion of the irony of Mecca-Cola (fighting American capitalism with capitalism) the diminishing of the Muslim political message where sold in Middle East Arab nations, it's economic harm to the employees of Coca-Cola, who are paid well above what other workers are paid, and the blunder that Mecca-Cola made in naming a charity who refuses to take their contribution- furthermore not naming any new charities to avoid verification is (in your words) BS?

Well, that seals it. You'd rather drink your cola, smug in the notion that you must be helping someone, and fighting American-Zionist-Criminals (ooooooo!) even if the only person you're helping is the CEO of Mecca-Cola, by lining his wallet.

[Logic]

Originally posted by vmarks:
Well, that seals it. You'd rather drink your cola, smug in the notion that you must be helping someone, and fighting American-Zionist-Criminals (ooooooo!) even if the only person you're helping is the CEO of Mecca-Cola, by lining his wallet.

So?

If you won't contibute to our little party, go away. I already brought the Mecca Cola and won't return it. Bring your Coca Cola if you want. I also brought the TV, Now contribute to our party or go away!!

[vmarks]

Originally posted by Logic:
So?

If you won't contibute to our little party, go away. I already brought the Mecca Cola and won't return it. Bring your Coca Cola if you want. I also brought the TV, Now contribute to our party or go away!!

Don't you remember? I brought the dart board and the billiard table. They were a lot of trouble to lug in here, too. Thankfully, Spliffy helped get them through the door while you were arranging the furniture.

[Logic]

Originally posted by vmarks:
Don't you remember? I brought the dart board and the billiard table. They were a lot of trouble to lug in here, too. Thankfully, Spliffy helped get them through the door while you were arranging the furniture.

I forgot

Thanks for bringing the billiard table, perhaps I'll go and play some.

ps. was that a triple post?

[Spheric Harlot]

Kids,

if ya can't play nice, you'll all be chucked in the playpen with version!

And nobody ever heard from him again, so...

-s*

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by vmarks:
Of COURSE I have a sense of humor- I've always taken your jibes, jabs, assaults and insults with a smile.

Yes, yes, let's re-hash- I always treated you with the utmost respect. Yet you chose to decide that some other user was me (he wasn't. ThinkInsane even did an IP check and verified it for you.)

Instead, you not only don't care who you offend, you decide that a discussion of the irony of Mecca-Cola (fighting American capitalism with capitalism) the diminishing of the Muslim political message where sold in Middle East Arab nations, it's economic harm to the employees of Coca-Cola, who are paid well above what other workers are paid, and the blunder that Mecca-Cola made in naming a charity who refuses to take their contribution- furthermore not naming any new charities to avoid verification is (in your words) BS?

Well, that seals it. You'd rather drink your cola, smug in the notion that you must be helping someone, and fighting American-Zionist-Criminals (ooooooo!) even if the only person you're helping is the CEO of Mecca-Cola, by lining his wallet.

I don't drink Mecca-Cola-didn't like the taste. Guess I'm a Zionist now, huh?
No see my beef with you is your total lack of tolerance toward Arabs in general. You always try to come off as 'moderate' but really you are just as right wing as Sharon and his government of criminals. Frankly, I'm sick of pretending that you are open to the Arab perspective. You are not and your postings under 'einmakom' showed your Zionist leanings even more. Just because TI says he checked the IP, doesn't mean I buy it. The similarities were blatantly obvious.

Now, I changed my sig quote today, add that to the things theo listed for you to flame on about.

Hey Logic, here are those marshmallows you wanted:

[Logic]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Hey Logic, here are those marshmallows you wanted:

: takes hand off lbk's rear to grab some marshmallows :

[chris v]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:


version!

And nobody ever heard from him again, so...

-s*

Black Helicopters!!

CV

[ThinkInsane]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Just because TI says he checked the IP, doesn't mean I buy it.

Hey now.
Easy kitty, are you impugning my honor here?

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by ThinkInsane:
Hey now.
Easy kitty, are you impugning my honor here?

Well you guys are both mods...so probably friends or something.

[lil'babykitten]

Originally posted by Logic:
: takes hand off lbk's rear to grab some marshmallows :

:slaps Logic:

What is that? virtual harassment?
I guess I can't look to TI for much help with that either.....

[Logic]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
:slaps Logic:

What is that? virtual harassment?
I guess I can't look to TI for much help with that either.....

:grabs lbk's hand before it hits and puts the marshmallow I had in my hand in her face:

[version]

Originally posted by chris v:
Black Helicopters!!

CV

lol, ain't that the truth, in fact, been battling xmas shoppers here, it's like Dawn of the dead!

Em, I haven't had time to reply to everyone who posted, and disagrees with me, but you're wrong, so that probably sums it up, lol.

On a different note (and not to veer off the topic like vmarks did), but I've been saying for over a year that the US is planning another 9/11 attack; well, well, this new anouncement by the 'Homeland' gang about Al-Qaeeda getting up to some new mischief is bang on the nail for whta has been discussed amongst us US watchers. Just wait, next year we'll see an attrocious act on the US, but this time Bushcon is making sure that the public knows that they know it's happening, but can't stop it


Ok, here's my other problems wit h9/11

1. How did the FBI manage to indentify all hijackerrs within a few days? Jeez, it takes the Israelis about a week to identify just 1 suicide bomber, not bad FBI.

2. Why did bushy boy bully the lead investigor of 9/11 into getting rid of the actual evidence? the building, all the metal was shipped off to India as soon as.

3. visit here for all my other points.
http://www.serendipity.li/wtc.html



P.s. mecca cola tastes better than coca-cola, but not as good as pepsi MAX.

happy xmas

[ThinkInsane]

Originally posted by lil'babykitten:
Well you guys are both mods...so probably friends or something.

What do ya think, that we all sit around after a hard day of modding and have a few beers?

Seriously, I don't believe I have ever had a real conversation with any other mods on the boards. I haven't even turned on IM in months. Honestly, I don't even think that vmarks and I have ever really interacted unless it's through posts in the political forum. Although, if the IP's had matched, I probably just wouldn't have posted anything, as a 'professional courtesy' or something.



And Logic, keep your hands of the kitty's tail! That's virtual sexual harassment, and she doesn't have to take it!

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by version:
1. How did the FBI manage to indentify all hijackerrs within a few days? Jeez, it takes the Israelis about a week to identify just 1 suicide bomber, not bad FBI.

That has been addressed in the thread.

Partly, it was easy because they DID appear on surveillance tapes, despite your false claims to the contrary.

-s*

[Logic]

Originally posted by ThinkInsane:
And Logic, keep your hands of the kitty's tail! That's virtual sexual harassment, and she doesn't have to take it!

HEY! She slapped me because I took my hand off her rear, didn't you notice that!

What, ya jealous?

:grabs TI's rear for a sec then back to eat marshmallows:

[version]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
That has been addressed in the thread.

Partly, it was easy because they DID appear on surveillance tapes, despite your false claims to the contrary.

-s*

Another common myth that is out theree, The tapes that we see would have to have been analysed for at least a week before any ID could have been made. Even the identification is wrong, the hijackers are mostly alive, still. So all they had were names, which didn't tally with the actual faces.

So tell me again, how on earth they ID'd all those men, in such a short time? The so-caleld tapes aren't airport tapes, they ar eform various sources such as shopping Malls, I mean come on, how the heck di they collate all those tapes from all those places within a few days, impossible.

[swrate]

Heat
put butter in a pan, melt it add marshmallows, melt them to caramel colour, while stirring add rice crispies, dish out in a flat recipient, cut, eat




Wireframe

All this struck me, I remember reading in one of John le Carr�'s books a fiction about "war on terror" and the terrorist leader made his plans and while joking with someone from the President Reagan administration I think it was. This person gave the head terrorist lots of ideas on how to use vulnerability.

Some Art middles pictured WTC years ahead
as if Manhattan felt some kind of premonition
I wonder if we will ever know why this tragedy and how to deal with opposition/terrorism without turning it into a massacre.

[version]

One thign that still hasn't been dealt with, and that's the seismograph readouts from upstate NY, they point to something akin to a bomb going off just after the planes hit.


I love how people buy into the whole ID thing too.

Look, is anyone trying to say that within a fe whours of this happening, that the Police managed to track down all surveilance cameras (whihc just happened to have the hijackers on them), then, from just their faces (there are no records of ANY Arabs by those names on the flights) they managed to have positive names put to them, all within hours, then a few days. Also, where the hell did they get the names from? The pictures? How come we still don't see teh US MEdia telling us how the most of the actual suspects are alive (CNN only put up a page for one day, teh FBI have as a document).

So where was all this info being kept? the pictures, the names, the time involved (little), adn then, let's not forget this part, the actual blame for it on those people. How ar ethey suspects? Who ID'd them as being th ehijackers? Their names aren't on the flight lists, the airport staff don't remember their faces? So who is saying it was even these people?

Too many holes my friends.

[version]

Here's the original FBI wanted list for the 19 hijackers, http://www.fbi.gov/pressrel/pressrel01/092701hjpic.htm
you'll note that 8 of them are alive, and well, 5 more have come forward and there claim to be alive is being investigated by the FBI.

I swtill wonder how the FBi knew it was these men, that they were Arabs, and thus Al-Qaeeda.

Wh ywere they so sure, and certain it was them, why do we not see headlines saying, "Look, they are alive, we don't know who hijacked the planes, but ti was Al-Qaeeda Arabs'. All pre-text for an agenda.

I'll post links later on the discovery that the these men are alive.


P.s. The FBI have also rleased info on those that alive

[version]

Just quickly, here's a list of the first 8 who are now confirmed alive.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/hijackers.html

Update:

What some people fail to realise here, is how the US Gov. managed to, so quickly, come to the conclusion that it was these men, got all this evdience from CCTV camers, and then became suspects, all with days, if not hours. Even if the pictures are of the real hijackers, how did they get them so quickly? managed to work out it was Arabs, these men, and get their pictures, even if they used faked ID's. None of this tallies up.

FBI Admits: No Evidence Links 'Hijackers' to 9-11



The possibility that 19 Muslim men accused of being the Sept. 11 hijackers were not, in fact, the hijackers, is not so extraordinary an idea as it might seem.


_


Exclusive To American Free Press


By Michael Collins Piper


_


After seven months of non-stop declarations by U.S. government spokesmen that there exists solid proof tying 19 Muslim men to plotting the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, FBI Director Robert Mueller has now admitted quite the opposite.


That 19 Muslim men who have apparently disappeared have been named as the hijackers is not in doubt.


What is in doubt is whether those 19 men were actually plotting anything, either individually or together.


The amazing possibility remains that others carried out the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, using the identities of the 19 Muslims who have been assigned guilt in the tragedy.


In an April 19 speech delivered to the Common wealth Club in San Francisco, Mueller said that the purported hijackers, in his words, �left no paper trial.� The FBI director stated flatly:


_


In our investigation, we have not uncovered a single piece of paper�either here in the United States or in the treasure trove of information that has turned up in Afghanistan and elsewhere�that mentioned any aspect of the Sept. 11 plot.


_


In describing Mueller�s evidence fiasco, Los Angeles Timesreporters Erich Lichtblau and Josh Meyer, whose article was reprinted in The Washington Post on April 30, note that:


_


Law enforcement officials say that while they have been able to reconstruct the movements of the hijackers before the attacks�all legal except for a few speeding tickets�they have found no evidence of their actual plotting.


_


The Times reporters acknowledge that Mueller�s comments �offer the FBI�s most comprehensive and detailed assessment to date of its investigation, remarkable as much for what investigators have not found as for what they have.�


The FBI director explained away the absence of evidence by making the disingenuous assertion that the hijackers used �meticulous planning, extraordinary secrecy and extensive knowledge of how America works� to conceal their scheme.


Mueller made this claim despite the fact that in the immediate wake of the Sept. 11 attacks, a variety of U.S. officials and media sources speciously announced, almost instantaneously, that there was firm evidence not only that these 19 Muslim men were agents of Osama bin Laden�s al Qaeda �network� but that they were indeed the individuals who hijacked the doomed flights on Sept. 11.


Mueller seems to forget that early government and media reports loudly hyped �discoveries��letters and other documents�in the luggage and personal belongings of the presumed hijackers which �proved� that they were on a �mission for Allah,� etc etc.


Now Mueller�s comments seem to contradict everything that�s been said.

[zigzag]

Originally posted by version:
I love how people buy into the whole ID thing too.

Look, is anyone trying to say that within a fe whours of this happening, that the Police managed to track down all surveilance cameras (whihc just happened to have the hijackers on them), then, from just their faces (there are no records of ANY Arabs by those names on the flights) they managed to have positive names put to them, all within hours, then a few days. Also, where the hell did they get the names from? The pictures? How come we still don't see teh US MEdia telling us how the most of the actual suspects are alive (CNN only put up a page for one day, teh FBI have as a document).

So where was all this info being kept? the pictures, the names, the time involved (little), adn then, let's not forget this part, the actual blame for it on those people. How ar ethey suspects? Who ID'd them as being th ehijackers? Their names aren't on the flight lists, the airport staff don't remember their faces? So who is saying it was even these people?

Too many holes my friends.

version, all of this has been explained, you just aren't interested in the explanation. Osama bin Laden could appear before you personally and say that he planned it, and you would say that he had been brainwashed into doing so by agents of the FBI/CIA/NCAA/SPCA.

All events, in theory, have anomalies and alternative explanations. OJ didn't do it - unknown drug dealers did. JFK was killed by a man with a rifle concealed in his umbrella. The moon landing was filmed in Arizona. Etc. The problem is that there is little or no evidence to support these alternative theories - they are mere speculation. Meanwhile, there is a massive amount of evidence supporting the official theory. It's just not as tittilating to accept the official explanation.

If you want to believe that a bunch of government bureaucrats are talented enough to plot, execute, and conceal the simultaneous crashing of 4 airliners that just happened to have known Islamic extremists aboard (who, among other things, had been taking flight lessons), deliberately taking thousands of fellow citizens with them, be my guest. I will enjoy the Mecca Cola.

[vmarks]

Originally posted by version:
you're wrong, so that probably sums it up, lol.

On a different note (and not to veer off the topic like vmarks did

P.s. mecca cola tastes better than coca-cola, but not as good as pepsi MAX.

happy xmas

It was a way-off topic thread WAY before I brought up the wrong-headed actions of Mecca-Cola.

And if you've bought it, good on you for supporting French CEO. He needs you to line his wallet in the name of charitable contributions.