[Fishticky]

Hey,

I have been a PC user my entire life with no real issues with hardware or software. However, the time is coming when I need to purchase a laptop for school and work, and I am seriously considering a mac. The reason for this is I have recently become interested, and have begun heavily using, computer music making programs such as ableton and reason. When various VSTs are compounded on this, this can become very processor intensive. Now, my question isn't so much whether i should get a mac, but more, which mac should i get? Money is not a huge factor, although I obviously wouldn't want to spend money for features I wouldn't need. So yeah, I guess my question is first, which one to get, macbook or macbook pro? Second, which of the three main models is the best? (a.k.a. is the 17 inch beast just overkill, or does it have worth for the extra money) And, my final question, I don't necessarily 'need' the new laptop just yet, so is there any reason to wait a little while? (I've heard rumors of there being some problems with the new intel duo chips)

Sorry for asking a questoin that surely has been asked a million times before, but I have been doing some research on the macs already, and have decided that some direct information from users would probably be best, especially if there are any mac users who use it for audio.

-Thank you very much.

[jamil5454]

If you're going to be using the Mac on the road and/or in a portable environment then I'd go for the 15" or 17" MacBook Pro. 15" if you don't mind working on a smaller display or have an external monitor to hook up to, 17" otherwise. If you don't need to be mobile, why not go for a desktop Mac, such as the Mac Pro?

[analogika]

The MacBook will offer nearly identical performance to the MacBook Pro for audio purposes.

Points to consider:

1. Monitor size. I run Logic Pro on 1280x854 on a 15" Powerbook and it works very nicely at this resolution. Only rarely does it get cramped. If I had the room, I'd rather add a second monitor than compromise on portability. The 13.3" MacBook at 1280x800 is perfect IMO and will replace my book this fall, but YMMV.

2. Expandability. The MacBook lacks the ExpressCard slot of the MacBook Pros. If you think you might eventually want to run hardware DSP cards like a Universal Audio UAD-1 in an external chassis, or use card-slot audio interfaces (which offer *much* higher bandwidth than Firewire), or if you want to add a second Firewire bus to keep your interface and your external storage on separate busses to improve performance/reduce the risk of conflicts - that is something you simply cannot do on the MacBook. It has a single Firewire port and that's it (I wouldn't consider USB for serious audio work).
This, however, is countered by the ability to easily and quickly replace the MacBook's internal drive, reducing the necessity of recording to an external drive (and thus the possible need for a second Firewire bus).
Also, external PCI chassis connected via ExpressCard are around $1500 and up. And the more horsepower is available in the laptop, the more likely DSP solutions will just be software in the future.
Probably an irrelevant point for Reason/Live production (as opposed to massive multi-tracking).

3. Backlit keyboard/autodimming display. Only available on the Pro. Will you be using the book on stage or in dimly/vary-lit environments, or will you be sticking to well-lit studios? What seems like a luxury gimmick can actually be extremely useful for a working musician/sound tech. I'll miss these features when I switch to the MacBook.

4. Firewire 800. A FAST external bus with plenty of bandwidth for both audio interface and multiple storage devices at the same time. Currently only available on the 17" MacBook Pro, or via ExpressCard on the 15". My external storage runs on FW800, but I'll live with running them on FW400 as backups exclusively when I switch to the MacBook. Chances are good that FW800 will make it into the next incarnation of the 15" MacBook Pro, but probably not the MacBook.

5. Size. If you're gonna be lugging it to school and to gigs and whatnot, get the 13" MacBook. In black. I am.


Keep in mind that a number of plug-ins have not been converted to Universal Binary/Intel-native code yet. They will not run until they are updated. This may incur additional cost/waiting, depending on what you need. Live and Reason are Universal already and run fine.

[bloodline]

I've managed to replace all my Audio equipment with a Firewire Audio interface, a 2Ghz (2gig RAM) 15" MacBook Pro, running Logic Pro 7.2, Reason 3 and Ableton Live!

It IS a portable studio...

[Fishticky]

Wow, thanks analogika, that extensive post really answered many of my questions.

So, as the pros and cons of the macbook versus the macbook pro, I take it that it goes like this:

Macbook advantages:
-Smaller
-Easier to switch out internal hard drive?

Macbook pro advantages:
-Keyboard is lit
-Firewire support
-Expandability for audio cards

As it looks, I think I am leaning more toward the macbook pro, as I am hoping for a laptop that will last me at least a year or two.

So, out of the three macbook pros, which one is best? My friend recently bought a computer off of ebay that's about 2 years old (an HP zd7000) that he thought would be able to run all of his audio programs nicely, but despite 3 ghz, and 2gb of ram, it still ran only at a mediocre level. I want to avoid this at all costs, as I'm putting down 2+ grand for a computer for essentially this purpose.

And finally, again, is there any benefit to waiting? I also heard that there will be a new OS coming out for mac (i could be wrong), and if anyone knows anything about the overheating of the new intel chips and if that has been repaired (or maybe the whole situation was just blown out of proportion and i just heard the negative side) i would very much appreciate it.

Again, thanks for all your help. Hopefully I'll look forward to being a part of the forum some day, and able to share my own mac experiences...

[flukewurm]

there is no 'best'. its all about whats right for you. i am a computer musician and i own the low end macbook. being that i spent $700 less than i would have with a pro model i am thrillllled with it. though i am thinking about getting a 15" macbook pro when they start shipping with the merom chips and when leopard ships... ONLY if they do a case redesign. or give you the option of a plastic macbook-like enclosure. aluminum dents. that doesnt make me happy.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Fishticky

So, out of the three macbook pros, which one is best? My friend recently bought a computer off of ebay that's about 2 years old (an HP zd7000) that he thought would be able to run all of his audio programs nicely, but despite 3 ghz, and 2gb of ram, it still ran only at a mediocre level. I want to avoid this at all costs, as I'm putting down 2+ grand for a computer for essentially this purpose.

All MacBooks and MacBook Pros will perform audio tasks at a level roughly equivalent to a dual-core 2.3 GHz G5 tower, i.e. fast enough to not worry about it.

Again, if you're going to be transporting it a lot, go for the small MacBook, or the 15" AT MOST. Personally, I find my 15" Powerbook just too big for constant lugging around (I had a 12" Powerbook before this one), but it's actually quite an excellent screen resolution for working (mine still has the 1280 x 854 screen - the MacBook has 1280 x 800, while the Pro 15" has 1440 x 900).

The only real advantage of the 17" is Firewire 800, which is not really relevant if you're not going to be doing massive high-resolution multi-track recording (i.e. something where you can't just use the internal drive for a production).

In any event, it's fairly likely that the next-revision 15" MacBook Pro might have Firewire 800, so you might want to wait a bit on that. It could be until Christmas, though.

The difference between the "big" 15" and the "small" 15" is irrelevant for audio purposes, though I'd make sure to get a 7200 rpm hard drive - they're faster at accessing/reading files, which is important in audio.

Upgrade to 2GB RAM immediately.

[Troll]

I agree with everything analogika said although I don't profess to have an iota of the skill he has. I especially agree that the 17" is too big if you're going to be using it on stage. I have a hard enough time finding a place to safely balance my 15" MBP. I saw photos of Coldplay and the Barenaked Ladies in studio recently and there were 15" PowerBooks all over the place so it's clearly a popular choice.

RAM is essential. My MBP started life out with 1GB and it really wasn't enough for big projects. That said, I had more problems with digital photography projects than with music projects.

Also, get the biggest possible hard drive. In upgrading to the MBP, I jumped from 60GB to 100Gb of internal space and a few months down the line, I'm running out. I don't like lugging Firewire drives around.

I've never seen Firewire 800 as a real benefit because I tend to work on projects on the computer and dump them to external drives when I'm finished with them. In that context, the relatively slight speed advantage of Firewire 800 over Firewire 400 isn't a huge issue. Plus, if you really needed it and were getting an MBP, you could buy a Firewire 800 Express card.

The main advantage I see of the MBP is the screen which is fantastic, although the MacBook screen ain't half bad either.

Finally, I'd just say that you should keep some money in your budget for a nice break out box, and a good pair of headphones and/or monitors. I have the FireWire 410 from M-Audio and that's pretty decent but there are other boxes offering a number of midi and audio ins and outs. Don't rely on using the audio ins and outs on the computer!

On the software side, I used to be a Reason, Logic, Live user but I've found that GarageBand is so much easier to get something down with, that I tend to spend more time in there than anywhere else these days. If you buy Live 5 now, they will give you Live 6 at a discount I think, but do bear in mind that Live 6 is due out soon.

[urfjzdqpmvtflmh aka bob]

If you're doing a lot then the extra screen real estate of the 17" is handy. It's also a slightly more functional machine throughout. It is large and heavy for regular transportation (not that the 15" MBP is a featherweight either though) so you'll have to strike a balance between portability and power depending on how often you're going to have to cart it around. I got the 17" as a desktop replacement, and had a Macbook for portability.

The 17" is great if you only occasionally have to carry the computer around. You've got power, a desktop-sized monitor, and ample expandability.

That looked like a good plan but I got fed up of the various problems I came across with the Macbooks so I replaced them with a Sony. The Pro is not without problems of it's own but I like it.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Troll

Also, get the biggest possible hard drive. In upgrading to the MBP, I jumped from 60GB to 100Gb of internal space and a few months down the line, I'm running out. I don't like lugging Firewire drives around.

Same here. But for audio, I'd always go for speed over size and live with having to dump stuff onto externals at home.

Originally Posted by Troll

I've never seen Firewire 800 as a real benefit because I tend to work on projects on the computer and dump them to external drives when I'm finished with them. In that context, the relatively slight speed advantage of Firewire 800 over Firewire 400 isn't a huge issue. Plus, if you really needed it and were getting an MBP, you could buy a Firewire 800 Express card.

It is a real benefit when you're working with a lot of tracks (more than the 410 can handle) via a Firewire interface and (an) external drive(s).

You can always add a second bus via an ExpressCard, though I do know a couple of people who need both the Firewire bandwidth AND a card at the same time.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by analogika

It is a real benefit when you're working with a lot of tracks (more than the 410 can handle) via a Firewire interface and (an) external drive(s).

Did you just diss my Firewire 410? Insulting my bus. Does that make you a busturd?

Although the Firewire 410 doesn't have that many inputs, when you start live looping, you quickly wind up with quite a few tracks running at the same time. But yeah, I admit, I'm normally a 3 track wonder!

[analogika]

Sorry, I didn't mean for that to shine through.

I used a borrowed 410 on a live gig on Saturday, and was not impressed. A Firewire interface that requires you to restart every time you connect it? What. The. Hell.

Completely unacceptable.

[bloodline]

I have found the MacBook Pro to be more durable than an iBook... The Aluminium seems to be much better suited to the rigours of a gig than plastic. The Screen Real Estate on the 15" is spot on for my needs, but I wouldn't be able to go lower.

I have found the Edirol FA-101 Firewire Audio interface to be the most reliable in a live situation too (8 inputs and 8 outputs are just about right, I don't use the 4 digital I/O ports much), being bus powered it's just more convienient than the MOTU 828Mk2...

The 5400rpm drive is acceptable, and difficult to max out (The S-ATA and a large Buffer seems to cope really well)... but the more speed the better (especially if you freeze tracks down alot)... RAM is VERY important, max the unit out.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by analogika

A Firewire interface that requires you to restart every time you connect it? What. The. Hell.

Completely unacceptable.

They had some problems with the original driver frying people's firewire bus so they implemented this weird restart policy. Since the new driver came out though, I thought this no longer applied. I certainly don't restart. Just plug it in and away.

[analogika]

I downloaded and installed the very latest drivers this Saturday.

It insisted, and I wasn't about to disagree. I had a show to play.