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Snow leopard: Release (Page 5)
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Salty
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Apr 30, 2009, 10:36 AM
 
Half price would be nice, but I'll probably end up paying for snow leopard fully when it comes out. I confess I've taken to piracy lately partially because it seems I've gotten a new machine with the newest version of OS X on it every revision. Paid for Jaguar then got an iBook with it, Paid for Panther then got a 12 inch PowerBook with it, paid for Tiger and got a MacBook with it. Arguably my dad got a MacBook with Leopard on it but that's not my machine... either way it feels silly to pay for an OS that's gonna come bundled with my new machine in a few months.
     
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Apr 30, 2009, 11:24 AM
 
It seems silly to pirate an OS that's gonna come bundled with your new machine in a few months.
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turtle777
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Apr 30, 2009, 11:53 AM
 
I wish I could pirate a Golden Master SL now

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Apr 30, 2009, 12:02 PM
 
I'd wait until they remove the debug code in 4K79
     
AppleGirl1990  (op)
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May 9, 2009, 11:36 AM
 
I think Apple should release SL to the masses for free so that it can be tested by everyone. That version of SL will expire once the golden master version is released.

This way we can speed up the testing process.
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May 9, 2009, 12:00 PM
 
The problem is that most Mac users are probably going to be really bad at submitting useful problem reports since they only have the ability to observe high level types of interactions (i.e. what they see/click on in the interface), and it will be a waste of resources to sift through all of these trying to get good information. There are those crash reports which I'm sure help some, but most of the general user provided feedback I suspect is garbage. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple doesn't even bother going through the general feedback these days.
     
besson3c
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May 9, 2009, 12:21 PM
 
I think those general feedback reports are useful for usability tests, but I don't think that Apple plans to change a whole lot of UI in Snow Leopard. The low level stuff that they are working on is probably best tested in house or among elite developers.
     
Chuckit
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May 9, 2009, 02:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
The problem is that most Mac users are probably going to be really bad at submitting useful problem reports since they only have the ability to observe high level types of interactions (i.e. what they see/click on in the interface), and it will be a waste of resources to sift through all of these trying to get good information. There are those crash reports which I'm sure help some, but most of the general user provided feedback I suspect is garbage. I wouldn't be surprised if Apple doesn't even bother going through the general feedback these days.
It's true that the signal-to-noise ratio would plummet, but you will catch a lot of bugs in actual use that you never would have with just a few devs.
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cgc
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May 9, 2009, 06:25 PM
 
But that would give Microsoft more time with their photocopiers...
     
AppleGirl1990  (op)
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May 11, 2009, 03:25 PM
 
Let Windows copy OS X. Has no affect on me.
Only thing that affects me is the stability of OS X.

Public testing might not be the greatest thing, but it sure would find some bugs in a hurry!
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cgc
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May 11, 2009, 03:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by AppleGirl1990 View Post
Let Windows copy OS X. Has no affect on me.
Only thing that affects me is the stability of OS X.
If Windows didn't suck, less people would flock to Macs which would result in less programs being written for Mac, etc. So in a roundabout way, it does impact you...
     
Salty
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May 11, 2009, 04:28 PM
 
Thing is everyone know until a release goes through it's first few point updates it's still essentially really good beta software. The developers are used to get out the major bugs that your average user would just say, "This new release of OS X sucks I'm switchint to Windows" after encountering. If you really wanna play around with the next version of OS X now, sign up as a developer.
     
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May 11, 2009, 04:48 PM
 
"Signing up to be a developer" ain't cheap.
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Pierre B.
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May 12, 2009, 05:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by Big Mac View Post
Indeed. I think it's possible that we'll see a half-price SL release, but anyone really hoping for a freebie is most likely to be disappointed.
From what we know so far about SL, it seems that it bears the deepest changes from the inception of OS X. How can this be half-price, let alone free?

I personally expect the same full price of previous OS X versions.
     
Salty
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May 12, 2009, 05:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
"Signing up to be a developer" ain't cheap.
Look at her system specs... I get the feeling she can afford it
     
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May 13, 2009, 09:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
"Signing up to be a developer" ain't cheap.
Not if you want one of the programs that puts you in a seeding program, no. Online developer is free, yet still enough of a chore to sign up that only the real fans do it to download a new OS version. Apple did experiment with releasing OS updates to online developers slightly early a few years ago, but stopped. I guess the signal/noise dropped too terribly.

Writing a bug report on an OS is no task for people with an Internet-age attention span. It takes some doing to even get them interested enough to read it - sample code to trigger it, or very specific circumstances - and if you get to that point, they will ask some questions to dig into details. My guess is that 99% of the Mac users interested enough to download a beta will stop bothering before Apple is happy - that's a massive drain on their time for very little gain.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
AppleGirl1990  (op)
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May 13, 2009, 10:52 PM
 
Don't be salty, Salty!
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May 17, 2009, 04:47 PM
 
Public testing is of course what happens after we all buy the release version, and they address a small proportion of the bugs we find over the ensuing 2+ years - if they spent that time before the actual release, the only thing that would change would be the official retail release date, and even then we'd all still complain.

But I think that's a good thing - I think I would almost be disappointed if I found that SL fixed bugs that I've been submitting reports on since Tiger's inception.
     
Salty
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May 19, 2009, 01:41 PM
 
Maybe they're not bugs... maybe they're features...
     
Koralatov
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May 20, 2009, 03:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
Maybe they're not bugs... maybe they're features...
Whose turn is it to make the obligatory, “In that case, Microsoft must have the most feature-rich OS” joke?
     
cgc
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May 20, 2009, 09:18 AM
 
Originally Posted by Koralatov View Post
Whose turn is it to make the obligatory, “In that case, Microsoft must have the most feature-rich OS” joke?
Yours.
     
Proudest Monkey
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May 20, 2009, 02:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Salty View Post
Half price would be nice, but I'll probably end up paying for snow leopard fully when it comes out.
I may need someone with more knowledge on the topic to verify and clean up my post but I'm hoping for some type of tiered payment schedule which allows Leopard users to pay the least and the oldest switchers to SL pay the most. I know the transition from PPC to Intel will render this useless as some have mentioned, but as a Leopard user, I'll pay whatever. If I had Tiger and I was using an Intel machine I would need some real incentive to upgrade - combo of new features/better OS and a cheap upgrade price. Might be worth it for Apple in the end.
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Cold Warrior
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May 20, 2009, 03:03 PM
 
Apple won't do that. It's too confusing to most consumers and probably near-impossible to enforce.
     
Proudest Monkey
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May 20, 2009, 03:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Cold Warrior View Post
Apple won't do that. It's too confusing to most consumers and probably near-impossible to enforce.
Then a simple upgrade cost for Leopard users and a full cost for everyone else? That would be much easier and less confusing than a tiered system.
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Chuckit
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May 20, 2009, 03:33 PM
 
Originally Posted by Proudest Monkey View Post
Then a simple upgrade cost for Leopard users and a full cost for everyone else? That would be much easier and less confusing than a tiered system.
What's the point of charging Tiger users more? If you want to make it cheap, just go ahead and make it cheap.
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May 20, 2009, 03:51 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
What's the point of charging Tiger users more? If you want to make it cheap, just go ahead and make it cheap.
Charge Tiger users more because they are getting more ... Leopard + SL. Something in Leopard did not entice them to upgrade, maybe SL would push them over towards upgrading.

Tiger Users - 129.95
Leopard - 59.95
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Chuckit
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May 20, 2009, 04:24 PM
 
Again, why?
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- - e r i k - -
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May 20, 2009, 06:54 PM
 
Agreed. Why? Clearly it is in Apple's best interest if most of it userbase upgraded to SL. Tiger users would balk at the higher price and simply not upgrade.

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Proudest Monkey
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May 20, 2009, 08:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by - - e r i k - - View Post
Agreed. Why? Clearly it is in Apple's best interest if most of it userbase upgraded to SL. Tiger users would balk at the higher price and simply not upgrade.
Maybe Leopard wasn't enough to make them upgrade for $129.95, but 2 revisions offering L+SL for $129.95 may be. So does Apple charge everyone $129.95 then and penalize people who upgraded to Leopard when it was released? No way - then people will start skipping revisions.

What's the better move for Apple? Offer what I propose, offer it to everyone for one price, or offer it for free.

I think we'd all agree the best move for Apple would be to offer it for free. They want everyone to use SL. Will they offer it for free, or close to free (29.95 or less)? I doubt it.

If you look a the history of OS X revisions they have all been full-price with features soccer moms and power users want. SL is not something soccer moms will care for - why do they care about the increased RAM ceiling or the faster installation (I'm paraphrasing what someone already said)? They don't care.

The best move for Apple, to get everyone on SL, is to offer it for cheap. Does Apple want to start a trend of selling major OS X revisions for cheap? I doubt it.

This is why I suggested what I did.
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May 20, 2009, 10:04 PM
 
Soccer moms aren't informed enough to even keep up with OS X releases. Apple doesn't want everyone on SL. It wants people to buy new hardware, which will then come with SL.
     
cwkmacuser
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May 20, 2009, 10:10 PM
 
I might skip this revision and wait for 10.7!

Assuming I don't fall in love with some GREAT feature!

I'm definitely not getting iLife and iWork this year.

I'm also hoping for some kind of SL & iLife/iWork bundle. Might make things cheaper?
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AppleGirl1990  (op)
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May 20, 2009, 10:24 PM
 
I can't believe this thread has over 7,000 hits.

....wait for 10.7 ? are you kidding me?
I think this is a critical time for Apple. SL could make or break the 'hip' trend that Apple has going for it.

I've never seen so many 'switchers' and if SL is as good as we all hope, there is NO reason to use WIndows 7
( Last edited by AppleGirl1990; May 20, 2009 at 11:09 PM. )
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cwkmacuser
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May 20, 2009, 10:52 PM
 
I don't plan to use Windows seven. I said Mac OS X 10.7!
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AppleGirl1990  (op)
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May 20, 2009, 11:09 PM
 
i know. but we have to keep PC users switching to remain strong.
and SL is coming online at a critical time in Apple's history
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May 20, 2009, 11:23 PM
 
OK. But I'm saying it may not be worth money on an upgrade. We'll see how reviews are and if I see any cool new stuff in the OS that I like. If not, I will be waiting for 10.7!
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- - e r i k - -
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May 21, 2009, 12:59 AM
 
SL is not about "cool stuff", it is about making your computer as fast and stable as possible instead of shiny new gimmicks.

About bloody time too.

And in fact, it seems this is exactly what Windows 7 is all about too. (apart from trying to redeem the whole Vista disaster of course).

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May 21, 2009, 01:26 AM
 
I'm fine right here! I don't need any kind of fancy 64-bit operating system. What I need is new feature (but maybe in a 64-bit OS. That would be fine...).
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May 21, 2009, 02:46 AM
 
What you need is a new feature? But you don't know what that feature is?

I see

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May 21, 2009, 03:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by Proudest Monkey View Post
I think we'd all agree the best move for Apple would be to offer it for free. They want everyone to use SL. Will they offer it for free, or close to free (29.95 or less)? I doubt it.
No, we don't all agree. It's definitely not in Apple's best interest to offer it for free. And you wanna bet the stockholders will side with me?

Your proposal is naive. You think because Apple wants everybody on SL they are willing to lose millions of Dollars? You think they are going to chalk up hundreds of thousands of man hours of work as a "gift to developers and the community"? Nonsense.

If Apple wants everybody on SL they will create incentives for people to upgrade (like having new features in iWork and iApps rely on SL being present). There's no reason for them to give away for free what they have always charged for.

Stop confusing your wishful thinking with reality. Even though some here want SL for free (don't we all ) Apple will charge for it. And most likely it will be the regular $129. And as with Leopard all those who believe it isn't worth it will be free to stay behind. You can start asking yourself what you'll do when it goes on sale, but making up this free SL bubble out of thin air instead is silly and does nothing more than setting yourself up for disappointment.
     
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May 21, 2009, 04:18 AM
 
^ What he said (though not how he said it... )
     
AppleGirl1990  (op)
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May 21, 2009, 08:28 AM
 
1. I want Apple to charge money for Snow Leopard. I don't mind forking over loot especially when i get so much enjoyment out of my computer.

2. I am a little concerned about the stability of Snow Leopard. So much hype, it's hard to live up to it.
Consider that Apple just released 10.5.7 and this minor update caused chaos for many computer users. 10.5 is a pretty solid system and we are on updated #7. Should be smooth sailing, right?.....nope! So how exactly is a brand new, totally revised OS like 10.6 going to have more stability right out of the box???
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Proudest Monkey
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May 21, 2009, 08:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by Simon View Post
No, we don't all agree. It's definitely not in Apple's best interest to offer it for free. And you wanna bet the stockholders will side with me?

Your proposal is naive. You think because Apple wants everybody on SL they are willing to lose millions of Dollars? You think they are going to chalk up hundreds of thousands of man hours of work as a "gift to developers and the community"? Nonsense.

If Apple wants everybody on SL they will create incentives for people to upgrade (like having new features in iWork and iApps rely on SL being present). There's no reason for them to give away for free what they have always charged for.

Stop confusing your wishful thinking with reality. Even though some here want SL for free (don't we all ) Apple will charge for it. And most likely it will be the regular $129. And as with Leopard all those who believe it isn't worth it will be free to stay behind. You can start asking yourself what you'll do when it goes on sale, but making up this free SL bubble out of thin air instead is silly and does nothing more than setting yourself up for disappointment.
My proposal was actually an upgrade plan and then I stated it would be in Apple's best interest to offer it for free - to get people to use it immediately because of the lack of "wow" features for an average users. Most users are average users.

My upgrade plan was shot down.

I then said Apple would not offer for free as you eloquently pointed out - they are a business and need to generate revenue. I am aware of this fact as is anyone in this forum.

As I stated before, I will buy it for $129.95 .. plenty of others have wished for a discount. It was not my wishful thinking.

How is Apple going to get people to upgrade? Plenty of people here will upgrade and people will through new hardware sales - what about the rest? There was always a feature the average user had to have , this upgrade doesn't have that. Marketing has a real challenge ahead of them.

(edited for clarification)
( Last edited by Proudest Monkey; May 21, 2009 at 08:49 AM. )
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cwkmacuser
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May 21, 2009, 09:48 AM
 
I'm not paying $130 for minor bug fixes and improved stability. I'll take my chances and wait until 10.7!
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Spheric Harlot
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May 21, 2009, 10:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by cwkmacuser View Post
I'm not paying $130 for minor bug fixes and improved stability.
Maybe your parents might be prepared to pay for a major overhaul, improved security, and a hefty speed boost.

You might ask them.
     
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May 21, 2009, 01:23 PM
 
By Apple's own admission, Leopard is a buggy OS. So why should the people fooled into parting good money for it then have to shell out the same amount of money again, just to get some frigging stability, features that work the way they were meant to instead of being broken, and security in their OS?
     
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May 21, 2009, 01:49 PM
 
People aren't being fooled into anything. If you're happy with Leopard, stay there. Same goes for Tiger. Everybody else will enjoy the benefits of SL for $129. It's really just that simple.

I can't wait till somebody threatens he'll start an online petition. Or maybe a class action lawsuit.
     
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May 21, 2009, 02:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by JKT View Post
By Apple's own admission, Leopard is a buggy OS.
Apple has said, "Leopard is a buggy OS"? I must have missed that story. Link?
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May 21, 2009, 02:24 PM
 
I guess he's inferring it from the fact that they're releasing bugfix point updates?

Or something?
     
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May 21, 2009, 02:55 PM
 
I want them to do this the same way they did 10.1

Just leave it in boxes down at Circuit City.

Oh, and make the installer "upgrade check" ridiculously easy to work around, so I don't have to reinstall 10.5 ever again, just like 10.1 saved me from the horrors of installing 10.0 (No DVD playing, or CD burning... What?)
     
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May 21, 2009, 03:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
I guess he's inferring it from the fact that they're releasing bugfix point updates?

Or something?
I think he's talking about the fact that SL is billed as fixing things and optimizing the OS (in large part), and the OS it would be fixing and optimizing would Leopard.

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