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turtle777 · Jul 27, 2009, 02:20 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

How did this thread get so off-topic?

What did you expect about a thread that is on page 10 ?

-t

Salty · Jul 27, 2009, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

How did this thread get so off-topic?

Would you rather talk about what FEATURES Applegirl thinks we're gonna get? (I'm betting on a magic pony app!)

Simon · Jul 27, 2009, 02:28 PM

Boring. Back on topic or lock please.

besson3c · Jul 27, 2009, 03:04 PM

Originally Posted by turtle777

What did you expect about a thread that is on page 10 ?

-t

page 11, Lotus Notes using bitch!

My Snow Leopard client wishes:

- SSHfs support in Finder
- a mail client with decent IMAP support
- fix bugs with ejecting network volumes
- performance emphasis
- some evidence of a roadmap away from HFS+ and a better way of handling metadata when dealing with network volumes that doesn't involve littering **** everywhere. I'm fine with disk images, Time Machine style
- I better be able to make my icons look shiny and there better be a desktop picture of a nice horse included!

turtle777 · Jul 27, 2009, 03:06 PM

Nice list, besson

I still would like to see native support for pink ponies.

-t

besson3c · Jul 27, 2009, 05:23 PM

I see you aren't color blind when it comes to your pony preferences, Lotus Notes using racist!

CharlesS · Jul 27, 2009, 06:05 PM

I... think this has gone off topic again.

cwkmacuser · Jul 27, 2009, 06:57 PM

No idea, Big Mac! That's just weird.

0157988944 · Jul 27, 2009, 06:59 PM

lolyarly.

turtle777 · Jul 27, 2009, 07:06 PM

I also think that this can not be easily answered, especially when looking at the discussed evidence.

-t

Veltliner · Jul 27, 2009, 07:43 PM

I'm not so keen on new features but on a lean, fast, and snappy OS.

The OS is the basis of everything you do on a computer.

It shouldn't draw any attention to itself, just work.

Most important feature (I'm still on Tiger) would be Time Machine, so they software does the back-up to two external hard drives (I do double back-up) without me having to check. I hope Time Machine will be very reliable on Snow Leopard.

A serious OS bug can make life harder. For example: Leopard causes Capture One Pro to crash when shooting tethered at around image 100. (shooting tethered means: images will be transferred to the computer immediately and show on the screen, can be done with a wire or a wireless connection).

0157988944 · Jul 27, 2009, 07:46 PM

Veltliner raises a point... has Time Machine been mentioned at all in Snow Leopard? It's one of the Leopard features that needs the most help, and SL is advertised as a better Leopard, but... nothing.

64stang06 · Jul 27, 2009, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by adamfishercox

Veltliner raises a point... has Time Machine been mentioned at all in Snow Leopard? It's one of the Leopard features that needs the most help, and SL is advertised as a better Leopard, but... nothing.

http://www.apple.com/macosx/refinements/

Quicker Time Machine backup.
Introduced in Mac OS X Leopard, the revolutionary Time Machine made backing up your hard drive easy for the first time. Time Capsule took backup even further with its wireless hard drive that works seamlessly with Time Machine. Now Snow Leopard makes Time Machine up to 50 percent faster and reduces the time it takes to complete your initial backup to Time Capsule.*

*Testing conducted by Apple in May 2009 comparing preproduction Mac OS X v10.6 Snow Leopard with shipping Mac OS X v10.5.7 Leopard. Testing was conducted on a shipping 2.0GHz MacBook system and a shipping 2.66GHz iMac system, both configured with 2GB of RAM. Performance will vary based on system configuration, network, file sizes, data sets, and other factors. These tests reflect the approximate performance of Mac OS X.

0157988944 · Jul 27, 2009, 08:16 PM

Faster, yes, but no more intelligence. It will still back up that whole 1 GB file even if only a byte has changed. Not to mention the fact that getting a new machine means all bets are off for being able to use your old backups, and plenty of other issues.

slugslugslug · Jul 27, 2009, 10:51 PM

Ugh, and speaking of Time Machine, I haven't heard anything to indicate that it'll work with FileVault. Since my only Mac is a laptop, I'd really prefer to be able to encrypt my home folder. But if I do, I can't use my Time Capsule for backup.

Maybe I'll actually leave them feedback about this'un.

turtle777 · Jul 27, 2009, 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by adamfishercox

Faster, yes, but no more intelligence. It will still back up that whole 1 GB file even if only a byte has changed. Not to mention the fact that getting a new machine means all bets are off for being able to use your old backups, and plenty of other issues.

You can't blame TM alone for this.

In order to do this efficiently, you'd need a new file system.

Well, we all know that's not gonna happen anytime soon. *sigh*

-t

CharlesS · Jul 27, 2009, 11:51 PM

You could always use disk images to encrypt only the stuff that really needs to be encrypted.

slugslugslug · Jul 28, 2009, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

You could always use disk images to encrypt only the stuff that really needs to be encrypted.

That might be a good idea. Though really, I'd prefer to just have everything but my iTunes library encrypted, so I don't have to think about what goes on a disk image and what doesn't.

turtle777 · Jul 28, 2009, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by slugslugslug

That might be a good idea. Though really, I'd prefer to just have everything but my iTunes library encrypted, so I don't have to think about what goes on a disk image and what doesn't.

Why not use Espionage ?

-t

Salty · Jul 30, 2009, 12:05 PM

You know what I'd really love to see? A contextual menu item for copying and pasting icons. I had this before the switch to intel and I haven't found one that does it since

OreoCookie · Jul 31, 2009, 03:17 AM

Originally Posted by adamfishercox

Faster, yes, but no more intelligence. It will still back up that whole 1 GB file even if only a byte has changed. Not to mention the fact that getting a new machine means all bets are off for being able to use your old backups, and plenty of other issues.

That's a limitation of the file system and one of the features of ZFS (if/when it comes to OS X). Normal backup tools aren't better in that respect.

BTW, if you switch machines, of course you can use your old backups. You'll have to fiddle a little, though.

besson3c · Jul 31, 2009, 03:27 AM

OreoCookie: you're right, but I think Time Machine might be simple in its design to a flaw, in some cases.

It wouldn't be hard to monitor backups and provide enough intelligence to notice that this crazy 1 GB file is being backed up as frequently as it is, and offer to automatically put this file on a different schedule. Or, it could simply throw up a courtesy alert saying that the disk image appears to belong to a VM, and that a better backup strategy for a VM is to backup the data from within the VM, or something like this but in less geek speak...

For starters, anybody running a VM does not want their I/O shot to hell every hour every time the backup goes off. A lot of people wouldn't know to add their images to the exceptions list though...

besson3c · Jul 31, 2009, 03:29 AM

A lot of people seem confused by the fact that TM drives are not bootable. It might be nice to offer creating a basic crippled down bootable TM drive solely designed to handle TM data restores. This might be another feature which might make TM a little more useful.

I like the basic design of TM, but it is a little too Mickey Mouse for my tastes. I'm not suggesting that Apple should load it up with all sorts of overwhelmingly confusing features, the last thing we need is more barriers to prevent people from wanting to backup. Still, you could toss a few handy selective things into an advanced section such as the aforementioned...

Simon · Jul 31, 2009, 04:20 AM

Sounds good, Besson. But although having a bootable TM disk sounds nice, I'm not so sure we really need it.

You can boot from the install DVD, use DU from there and also roll back to a TM backup of your choice through MA. It's all right there.

I think what Apple needs to improve is making clear that the install DVD isn't just an OS X installer, but also a whole set of recovery tools. Things like DU, TM, and MA need to be highlighted, not hidden away in a menu. It would also be nice if they built something like AppleJack into the OS so not only power users can actually use SU mode.

OreoCookie · Jul 31, 2009, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

OreoCookie: you're right, but I think Time Machine might be simple in its design to a flaw, in some cases.

You have a point.
On the other hand, I think (rather: I hope) it's easier to switch file system rather than to smarten up Time Machine. It's a matter of philosophy: rather than soup up a tractor, get a sports car

Originally Posted by besson3c

For starters, anybody running a VM does not want their I/O shot to hell every hour every time the backup goes off. A lot of people wouldn't know to add their images to the exceptions list though...

Right. Ditto for Microsofts stupid decision to put all e-mails in one large database or encrypted Disk Images.

0157988944 · Jul 31, 2009, 12:18 PM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

BTW, if you switch machines, of course you can use your old backups. You'll have to fiddle a little, though.

No you can't. The MAC address changing works to allow you access to them (and in my experience only partially as it screwed up permissions,) but it still starts the entire backup over again.

Big Mac · Jul 31, 2009, 12:48 PM

No, OC is right. You have to fiddle with the internals but it's well known you can get TM to do it.

besson3c · Jul 31, 2009, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Simon

Sounds good, Besson. But although having a bootable TM disk sounds nice, I'm not so sure we really need it.

You can boot from the install DVD, use DU from there and also roll back to a TM backup of your choice through MA. It's all right there.

I think what Apple needs to improve is making clear that the install DVD isn't just an OS X installer, but also a whole set of recovery tools. Things like DU, TM, and MA need to be highlighted, not hidden away in a menu. It would also be nice if they built something like AppleJack into the OS so not only power users can actually use SU mode.

That's just it, it is not at all clear or intuitive that the OS X DVD is used for all of that stuff.

Salty · Jul 31, 2009, 01:07 PM

At the same time the people creating VMs probably know how to change time machine settings.

besson3c · Jul 31, 2009, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

You have a point.
On the other hand, I think (rather: I hope) it's easier to switch file system rather than to smarten up Time Machine. It's a matter of philosophy: rather than soup up a tractor, get a sports car

Right. Ditto for Microsofts stupid decision to put all e-mails in one large database or encrypted Disk Images.

True, but unfortunately I'm willing to bet that ZFS (or something like it) is years off, as in not the next OS release after Snow Leopard, but possibly the one after that.

besson3c · Jul 31, 2009, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by Salty

At the same time the people creating VMs probably know how to change time machine settings.

I doubt that. You must think that creating VMs is something for uber nerds who understand all about the disk image files created by them. Not so. VMs are used for all sorts of things, including training, support, etc.

Salty · Jul 31, 2009, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

I doubt that. You must think that creating VMs is something for uber nerds who understand all about the disk image files created by them. Not so. VMs are used for all sorts of things, including training, support, etc.

Yah cause I didn't just set one up for my sister two weeks ago. Please refrain from telling me what I MUST think.

Big Mac · Jul 31, 2009, 05:57 PM

I think besson and Salty may need some beer diplomacy soon.

besson3c · Jul 31, 2009, 09:47 PM

Big Mac: I have no hostile or ill feelings towards beer, diplomacy is not necessary. I'm sorry that Salty has a bad relationship with beer, he must think that beer is only for people that know how to do sommersaults like I do, or something.

Eden Aurora · Aug 10, 2009, 07:35 AM

All this talk about Time Machine makes me wonder if TM is being updated in SL?

kylef · Aug 10, 2009, 09:43 AM

Is anyone else planning a fresh installation?

Cold Warrior · Aug 10, 2009, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by kylef

Is anyone else planning a fresh installation?

archive-install has worked great for me over the years of major point releases. I'll do an archive-install.

Simon · Aug 10, 2009, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by kylef

Is anyone else planning a fresh installation?

No. The time savings of an update install IMHO far outweigh any possible gains from a clean install. I try to keep my system very clean though, so obviously YMMV.

I will however use Disk Utility to clone my Leopard partition to another drive first. So if I indeed run into issues with the update install, it will be straightforward to do a clean install of SL and migrate from the Leopard clone. Even manually if necessary, but I highly doubt that.

JellyBeen · 07:14 PM

"The latest build of Snow Leopard, Apple's upcoming operating system, is rumored to be the "Gold Master," or final copy before the product will be released for duplication on optical media.

Build 10A432 has been seeded to developers, and French Web site Mac 4 Ever has reported that the latest version is the final build, suggesting the product could be pressed onto discs very soon. The latest version of OS X is due to be released in September, but Apple has not announced an official date."

CharlesS · Aug 11, 2009, 07:36 PM

Originally Posted by kylef

Is anyone else planning a fresh installation?

Here's how I plan to do it:

1. Repair permissions

2. Insert the install disc

3. Repair permissions

4. Boot from the install disc

5. Repair permissions

6. Erase the hard drive

7. Repair permissions

8. Shut down the computer

9. Start it in Target Mode so I can repair permissions from another computer

10. Take hard drive out of computer

11. Put hard drive in a USB enclosure so I can repair permissions

12. Repair permissions

13. Take a magnet and run it over the hard drive

14. Repair permissions

15. Set the hard drive on fire, and chop it to pieces with an axe just to make sure the data is gone

16. Repair permissions (still working out the logistics of this step)

17. Bury the remains of the drive in an empty field, then hack into the Pentagon and launch a nuclear missile at North Korea and make it look like the missile was launched from exactly where the hard drive is, so that when they send a retaliatory missile it ends up nuking the hard drive

18. Repair permissions

19. Oh crap, I forgot to install Snow Leopard!

Make sure you repair permissions before and after repairing permissions.

0157988944 · Aug 11, 2009, 07:59 PM

You didn't repair permissions between steps 8 and 9.

CharlesS · Aug 11, 2009, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by adamfishercox

You didn't repair permissions between steps 8 and 9.

Repairing permissions was step 9.

0157988944 · Aug 11, 2009, 08:29 PM

Your point being?

RAILhead · Aug 11, 2009, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by JellyBeen

"The latest build of Snow Leopard, Apple's upcoming operating system, is rumored to be the "Gold Master," or final copy before the product will be released for duplication on optical media.

Build 10A432 has been seeded to developers, and French Web site Mac 4 Ever has reported that the latest version is the final build, suggesting the product could be pressed onto discs very soon. The latest version of OS X is due to be released in September, but Apple has not announced an official date."

I'm an ADC Premier Developer, and the last seed available for us to download is 10A421:

Maybe only the Super-Duper Premier Members have access to it so far...

Big Mac · Aug 12, 2009, 02:25 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Here's how I plan to do it:

1. Repair permissions

2. Insert the install disc

3. Repair permissions
. . . .
19. Oh crap, I forgot to install Snow Leopard!

I

over that list.

Jasoco · Aug 12, 2009, 06:09 AM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Does Dock Exposé show docked windows? I'm pretty sure it's been mentioned, but if it has I've forgotten.

Yes. As well as normal all-window mode.

Hidden app windows also show up in Dock Exposé too, but not in all-window mode. Only in single app mode if you click the hidden app's icon.

Eden Aurora · Aug 12, 2009, 07:43 AM

Apple's Snow Leopard rumored to be Golden Master!!!!!

slugslugslug · Aug 12, 2009, 09:21 AM

^ That's what RAILhead was just saying (and doubting) a few posts up.

RAILhead · Aug 12, 2009, 09:37 AM

Still nothing on the seed site today...

TheoCryst · Aug 12, 2009, 04:34 PM

Nothing here yet either. If they did go Gold, they're keeping it close to the chest for now.