[Dex13]

Saw the HR Contest Last Night � Barry was cool but Lance was Better �

And then the All Start Game is Today � going to watch?

[Mark Tungston]

hell yeah

Derek Jeter MVP baby!

They diss DJ as "not having the stats" as the other top short stops � but how about this one:

World Series and playoff victories


(Don't give me no bull about "team play" either. Last I remember A-Rod in Seattle had 116 victories and Tejada had a monster team in 2001 (Giambi, Chavez, with that pitching) and Nomar has always had good teams in Boston but all fail to even make it to the Series)

[typoon]

Originally posted by Mark Tungston:
hell yeah

Derek Jeter MVP baby!

They diss DJ as "not having the stats" as the other top short stops � but how about this one:

World Series and playoff victories


(Don't give me no bull about "team play" either. Last I remember A-Rod in Seattle had 116 victories and Tejada had a monster team in 2001 (Giambi, Chavez, with that pitching) and Nomar has always had good teams in Boston but all fail to even make it to the Series)

While Jeter may not have the stats he does the other things that win games. Like that dive into the stands to catch the ball. Why do you think A-Rod Joined him? If you can't beat'em Join'em.

[Phanguye]

Originally posted by Mark Tungston:
hell yeah

Derek Jeter MVP baby!

They diss DJ as "not having the stats" as the other top short stops � but how about this one:

World Series and playoff victories


(Don't give me no bull about "team play" either. Last I remember A-Rod in Seattle had 116 victories and Tejada had a monster team in 2001 (Giambi, Chavez, with that pitching) and Nomar has always had good teams in Boston but all fail to even make it to the Series)

yankees suck

[gorickey]

I haven't watched since 1991...

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally posted by Dex13:
Saw the HR Contest Last Night � Barry was cool but Lance was Better �

And then the All Start Game is Today � going to watch?

Actually Tejada was better. Pretty cool two subs made it to the final and the winner broke two records.

[Agasthya]

Originally posted by typoon:
While Jeter may not have the stats he does the other things that win games. Like that dive into the stands to catch the ball. Why do you think A-Rod Joined him? If you can't beat'em Join'em.

Derek Jeter has a huge tendancy to embellish things. I think the Yankees can win just fine without him. He isn't that great of a player and he is most definitely not worth the $18.5 million/year that The Evil Empire is paying him. Look at his numbers, they have dropped every single year.

Also, please note that the Yankees have not won a World Series since they started buying players. Boston is building their teams now like how the Yankees built them in the mid-late 90s. The Sox also have the best hitter in baseball:



Go Sox

[gorickey]

Originally posted by Agasthya:
...the best hitter in baseball:

Adam Melhuse?

[Agasthya]

Originally posted by gorickey:
Adam Melhuse?

He's a close second to Manny.

[gorickey]

Originally posted by Agasthya:
He's a close second to Manny.

Oh, just checking...now that you mention it, I do see Manny in that picture afterall.

[Mark Tungston]

Derek Jeter has a huge tendancy to embellish things. I think the Yankees can win just fine without him. He isn't that great of a player and he is most definitely not worth the $18.5 million/year that The Evil Empire is paying him. Look at his numbers, they have dropped every single year.

you're intitled to your opinion but I think if the yanks lost jeter, they would equate to the A's or Mariners. Sucessful, but not champions. Jeter is on pace for 3,000 hits faster than Ricky Henderson. Consistency baby.

Also, please note that the Yankees have not won a World Series since they started buying players. Boston is building their teams now like how the Yankees built them in the mid-late 90s. The Sox also have the best hitter in baseball:
Building? Like trading Fossum for Schilling? Like trying to trade for A-Rod? Like trying for Randy Johnson? They have done no more than the Yankees have tried to of late to build within.

The truth is, the Yankees have made it to 2 of the last 3 world series. Thats a hell of a accomplishment since the Bosox have not made it to the world series AT ALL since the 80s.

don't hate the playa. hate the game.

[G4ME]

Originally posted by Phanguye:
yankees suck

Jeter Swallows,

I see red sox nation it stretching across the land.

[MacGorilla]

Though a Red Sox fan, I must agree Derek Jeter is a fantastic player.

[Phanguye]

Originally posted by G4ME:
Jeter Swallows,

I see red sox nation it stretching across the land.

red sox are better but not by much...

[gorickey]

Originally posted by typoon:
While Jeter may not have the stats he does the other things that win games. Like that dive into the stands to catch the ball.

[JHromadka]

Originally posted by Mrjinglesusa:
Actually Tejada was better. Pretty cool two subs made it to the final and the winner broke two records.

I thought Tejada broke one and tied another? I was glad Berkman did so well (finally).

[Dex13]

Oh and I forgot to add that as a bonus my birthday is on the all star game ..

[TailsToo]

Go Phillies!

[vmpaul]

Originally posted by Agasthya:
The Sox also have the best hitter in baseball:

Sorry, Manny's good but he's no Barry Bonds:



� Ranks 1st in NL in BA (.365)
� Ranks 3rd in NL in HR (23)
� Ranks 3rd in NL in R (71)
� Ranks 1st in NL in BB (131)
� Ranks 1st in NL in OBP (.628)
� Ranks 1st in NL in SLG (.794)
� Ranks 1st in NL in OPS (1.421)

Now for the amazing stuff:

He's drawn 71 intentional walks so far this season. That breaks the record he set during all of last season at the halfway mark this year. He's got more than double the intentional walks than most teams. The nearest individual is Jim Thome with 13. That is how scared teams are to pitch to him. That is respect. He is the most feared hitter in baseball. If you include regular walks he's on target to be walked 241 times this year. That's amazing.

[gorickey]

Originally posted by vmpaul:
Now for the amazing stuff...

Where? I missed it.

[Agasthya]

Originally posted by vmpaul:
Sorry, Manny's good but he's no Barry Bonds:



� Ranks 1st in NL in BA (.365)
� Ranks 3rd in NL in HR (23)
� Ranks 3rd in NL in R (71)
� Ranks 1st in NL in BB (131)
� Ranks 1st in NL in OBP (.628)
� Ranks 1st in NL in SLG (.794)
� Ranks 1st in NL in OPS (1.421)

Now for the amazing stuff:

He's drawn 71 intentional walks so far this season. That breaks the record he set during all of last season at the halfway mark this year. He's got more than double the intentional walks than most teams. The nearest individual is Jim Thome with 13. That is how scared teams are to pitch to him. That is respect. He is the most feared hitter in baseball. If you include regular walks he's on target to be walked 241 times this year. That's amazing.

Yeah. But Barry has his own category: "Best Hitter in Baseball to be Juiced up on Steroids." Manny is the best Pure Hitter.

[vmpaul]

Originally posted by Agasthya:
Yeah. But Barry has his own category: "Best Hitter in Baseball to be Juiced up on Steroids." Manny is the best Pure Hitter.

Steroids charge is a crock.

#1) Prove it. Conjecture from jaded sportswriters doesn't mean squat.

#2) Wouldn't matter anyway because: [list=A][*]Steroids won't do anything for hand-eye coordination. That's what hitting is all about. Check his AVG this year and the batting titles he's won in the past. [*]Steroids aren't a solution to poor skills. See the others who were supposedly named as well - Marvin Benard, Benito Santiago, and Jason Giambi. If steroids were that effective the other guys would be putting up unbelievable numbers as well. They aren't.[/list=A]

#3) Steroids would help in only two circumstances - power and injury recovery[list=A][*] Power - not applicable really because Bond's has always hit home runs. Plus, there's a short RF fence in SBC Park which probably helps him. Not a difference maker there. Again, he's still hitting for a large AVG.[*] Recovery - probably the one area that would help him the most since he just turned 40.[/list=A]
#4) See #1 again.

He's still a leader in home runs despite that fact that he see's way less pitches than any other batter. He's walked so much. Could Manny maintain his AVG or Home Runs if he was getting 50% less AB's to swing at? I don't think so. That's what makes Bond's accomplishments even more astounding.

I like Manny. He's fun to watch and he's got skills but he's nowhere as feared as Bond's.

[Sealobo]

how long is a typical baseball game? i heard it's freaken long.

[KrazyEvilGoat]

Baseball is a very boring sport for the spectator. Not a whole lot really happens for a very long time. Not to mention the commentators are usually annoying as hell.

[SamuraiDL]

American takes it 9-4...

[Apple Pro Underwear]

Originally posted by MacGorilla:
Though a Red Sox fan, I must agree Derek Jeter is a fantastic player.

for the record �

i think Nomar is a fantastic player. he's great at fenway, smart and is a fan favorite. what theo epstein did to him was f*cked up.

i hope he gets traded to someplace that appreciates him.

the Boston players I dislike are Manny and david Ortiz. these guys are lacking in the intelligence meter. when the yankees were busy sweeping their asses and making them 7.5 back... these 2 idiots were goofing off like morons in the dugout. keeping it loose is cool, but not in that situation.

[MacGorilla]

Nomar is awesome. He's still getting up to speed. I have a booblehead doll of his I got at a game at Fenway a couple years back.

[dreilly1]

Originally posted by Sealobo:
how long is a typical baseball game? i heard it's freaken long.

They tend to be three to three and a half hours for a 9-inning major-league game. Not much longer than a (American) football game. It is possible to get through a major league game in a little over two hours if both pitchers are working fast and there's not a lot of offense. Those happen to be the games I enjoy most, but your mileage may vary, of course.

A lot of the delay is to make room for advertising time. Baseball has sixteen or seventeen built-in TV time-outs between innings in a nine-inning game, with a few extra for piching changes in the middle of an inning. At two to three minutes per break, that can be 40 minutes to an hour added to the length of a game just so the TV can show its commercials.

[Phanguye]

Originally posted by vmpaul:
He's still a leader in home runs despite that fact that he see's way less pitches than any other batter. He's walked so much. Could Manny maintain his AVG or Home Runs if he was getting 50% less AB's to swing at? I don't think so. That's what makes Bond's accomplishments even more astounding.

he sees just as many pitches as any other batter... what makes him great is his ability to only swing at pitches that he will be able to hit...

this leads to the great number of walks... that and the pitcher knows that if he misses his spot that it wont be good...

walks are the most underapreciated stat in baseball

[Agasthya]

Originally posted by Phanguye:
walks are the most underapreciated stat in baseball

I agree. We should do away with the AVG stat and use the OBP one more.

[Phanguye]

Originally posted by Agasthya:
I agree. We should do away with the AVG stat and use the OBP one more.

most definantly

if you havent read it... this is a great book about baseball metrics
Moneyball: The Art of Winning an Unfair Game

[gorickey]

Originally posted by Agasthya:
I agree. We should do away with the AVG stat and use the OBP one more.

I agree as well...in that case, Henderson has one of the highest OBP averages ever...

[Mark Tungston]

Originally posted by Agasthya:
I agree. We should do away with the AVG stat and use the OBP one more.

what we should be using is OPS

obp + slugging %

because OBP alone is misleading if a player is a singles hitter vs. a power hitter. OPS would show he has OBP and shows that he hits for power.

the difference would be Rickey Henderson vs. Barry Bonds. They may have similar high OBP but Barry Bonds hits for power and average as well as walks

[gorickey]

Originally posted by Mark Tungston:
the difference would be Rickey Henderson vs. Barry Bonds. They may have similar high OBP but Barry Bonds hits for power and average as well as walks

I disagree on that actually (using OBS)...what difference does it make if you get on by a single or if you get on using more power? The point is getting on base, right?

Rickey has a much less slugging % and BA than Barry; however, Rickey also can move better on the bases and therefore has scored more runs (the most important stat of ALL)...

[Phanguye]

Originally posted by gorickey:
I disagree on that actually (using OBS)...what difference does it make if you get on by a single or if you get on using more power? The point is getting on base, right?

Rickey has a much less slugging % and BA than Barry; however, Rickey also can move better on the bases and therefore has scored more runs (the most important stat of ALL)...

getting a multibase hit is much more important than a steal... in the endi it is hitting that wins games, not steals

[gorickey]

Originally posted by Phanguye:
getting a multibase hit is much more important than a steal... in the endi it is hitting that wins games, not steals

No, no, no...in the end it's runs scored that wins games...need I say more?

Most stolen bases + most runs scored = Rickey

Getting on base is only half the battle, what you do while on base is a completely different story, one that nobody can tell better than Henderson.

[vmpaul]

Originally posted by Phanguye:
he sees just as many pitches as any other batter... what makes him great is his ability to only swing at pitches that he will be able to hit...

this leads to the great number of walks... that and the pitcher knows that if he misses his spot that it wont be good...

walks are the most underapreciated stat in baseball

Actually he is seeing less pitches. That's the whole point of Intentional walks (IBB). He doesn't get a chance to hit. IIRC, intentional walks (IBB) and regular walks (BB) are not added to your At-Bat (AB) totals. Maybe it's just intentional walks, I'm not sure.

Anyway, the next highest total of IBB's is Jim Thome (PHI) with 18. The highest number of IBB's for a team is St Louis with 40. Pretty astounding.

Bonds has over 100 less AB's, because of the walks, yet he's the leader in AVG and among the leaders in HR's.

Player - AB - IBB - BB - AVG

Bonds - 189 - 71 - 131 - .365
Thome - 291 - 18 - 56 - .289

[Phanguye]

Originally posted by vmpaul:
Actually he is seeing less pitches. That's the whole point of Intentional walks (IBB). He doesn't get a chance to hit. IIRC, intentional walks (IBB) and regular walks (BB) are not added to your At-Bat (AB) totals. Maybe it's just intentional walks, I'm not sure.

Anyway, the next highest total of IBB's is Jim Thome (PHI) with 18. The highest number of IBB's for a team is St Louis with 40. Pretty astounding.

Bonds has over 100 less AB's, because of the walks, yet he's the leader in AVG and among the leaders in HR's.

Player - AB - IBB - BB - AVG

Bonds - 189 - 71 - 131 - .365
Thome - 291 - 18 - 56 - .289

well i stand corrected

[Phanguye]

Originally posted by gorickey:
No, no, no...in the end it's runs scored that wins games...need I say more?

Most stolen bases + most runs scored = Rickey

Getting on base is only half the battle, what you do while on base is a completely different story, one that nobody can tell better than Henderson.

not so much....

while rickey has scored more runs, he did it in more at bats. Everytime Bonds goes to the plate he has a 22.2% chance of scoring, while rickey only scored 20.9% of the time.

Also rickey was successful with stealing 80.7% of the time. However, Bonds has been successful 78.12% of the time. Stolen bases are overrated.

[Mark Tungston]

Originally posted by gorickey:
No, no, no...in the end it's runs scored that wins games...need I say more?

Most stolen bases + most runs scored = Rickey

Getting on base is only half the battle, what you do while on base is a completely different story, one that nobody can tell better than Henderson.

are you on crack? rickey henderson is a all time great but don't even joke about that

HITTING FOR POWER is much more coveted and important than hitting weakly and stealing bases. Stealing bases involve risk, which is avaoidable if you can hit for power.

[vmpaul]

Originally posted by Phanguye:
well i stand corrected

Like I said, I'm not sure if regular walks (BB) are knocked off the AB's. It's so infrequent that you really see anybody challenge him. BTW, did you see the HR Derby on Monday? They jokingly acted like they were going to intentionally walk him. Catcher stood up with his glove out. It was pretty funny.

I try to catch every Giants game I can. It's unbelievable how pitchers paint the corners trying to avoid giving Barry anything to hit. I've never seen anything like it before with any hitter.

Too bad he's perceived as such a jerk (some deservedly so), otherwise he'd get more recognition.

[dencamp]

I miss ricky stealing a base in the all star game when they were up by ten runs. Ricky likes ricky to be on ricky's vcr when ricky goes back to ricky's house.

apologies to the ricky of the go variety.

[gorickey]

Originally posted by Phanguye:
not so much....

while rickey has scored more runs, he did it in more at bats. Everytime Bonds goes to the plate he has a 22.2% chance of scoring, while rickey only scored 20.9% of the time.

Also rickey was successful with stealing 80.7% of the time. However, Bonds has been successful 78.12% of the time. Stolen bases are overrated.

Those stats meaning nothing except for that fact that Bonds hasn't played as long as Henderson has (yet) is all.

SB's are overrated? Ironic. I was thinking HR's were these days...

[gorickey]

Originally posted by Mark Tungston:
are you on crack? rickey henderson is a all time great but don't even joke about that

HITTING FOR POWER is much more coveted and important than hitting weakly and stealing bases. Stealing bases involve risk, which is avaoidable if you can hit for power.

Let's please not forget that Rickey did hit for power, in fact, more so that any other leadoff hitter in baseball history...and as a leadoff hitter, that is not your primary concern at the plate. Rickey's job was to get on base, and score runs...simple as that. If he hit for power along the way (which he did very well), that's just an added bonus...

[gorickey]

Originally posted by dencamp:
I miss ricky stealing a base in the all star game when they were up by ten runs. Ricky likes ricky to be on ricky's vcr when ricky goes back to ricky's house.

apologies to the ricky of the go variety.

gorickey.

[iREZ]

I loved the fact that Clemens got rocked in the 1st, I sure hope Piazza was telling the batters which pitch was going to be thrown, jeez I hate Clemens.

[Agasthya]

Originally posted by gorickey:
No, no, no...in the end it's runs scored that wins games...need I say more?

Most stolen bases + most runs scored = Rickey

Getting on base is only half the battle, what you do while on base is a completely different story, one that nobody can tell better than Henderson.

I would much rather have a team of Ichiros than Barry Bonds. You have a lot more options on the basepaths and you can be much more creative.

[gorickey]

Originally posted by Agasthya:
I would much rather have a team of Ichiros than Barry Bonds. You have a lot more options on the basepaths and you can be much more creative.

Amen.

[Mark Tungston]

Originally posted by gorickey:
Let's please not forget that Rickey did hit for power, in fact, more so that any other leadoff hitter in baseball history...and as a leadoff hitter, that is not your primary concern at the plate. Rickey's job was to get on base, and score runs...simple as that. If he hit for power along the way (which he did very well), that's just an added bonus...

the baseball world does not revolve around Rickey Henderson and FYI: Barry Bonds is a much better player than Rickey will every be

� Barry has hit more singles than Rickey has hit Home Runs
� Barry is a thief too, he is the only member of the 500 500 club

Runs Scored is important only as a team stat, not individual. Please refer to Barry Bonds total RBI output compared to Rickey...

[Mark Tungston]

Originally posted by Agasthya:
I would much rather have a team of Ichiros than Barry Bonds. You have a lot more options on the basepaths and you can be much more creative.

i would rather have a team of A-Rods.

Speed and power should be spread throughout the lineup.

as i would choose the master lead off man... cough cough Rickey Henderson as my all-history team

and Barry Bonds as my all-history 3 hitter