[Eug]

Gruesome

The RCMP and Greyhound officials will only say that a "major incident" occurred on the bus Wednesday night, but have not provided any details.

But a passenger who said he saw the attack said a man repeatedly stabbed a seat mate, and eventually severed his head.

"We heard this blood-curdling scream and turned around and the guy was standing up, stabbing this guy repeatedly, like 40 or 50 times," Garnet Caton said Thursday morning from a hotel in Brandon, where he and other passengers had been taken to rest.

Caton said everyone on the bus scrambled to get out, and he and the bus driver shut the door from the outside while they awaited police.

Eventually, the attacker came to the front of the bus and showed them he had cut off the victim's head, Caton said.

Only in Amreri.... errr.... Canada.

I must say, after taking Greyhound a few times, I think I'd rather fly, take the train, or just stay home.

[Chuckit]

Dang. You'd think there'd be something a busload of people could do to help.

[Dakar the Fourth]

That is ****ed up.

We better find out this guy was completely nuts to begin with, and not some dude that just snapped.

[Uncle Doof]

The only thing wrong with public transport is that it's public.

[zombie punk]

My suspicion is that this had less to do with the specific method of transport the psycho was on, and more to do with the psycho. I'm not sure I see how this happening on public transport highlights specific issues with public transport, I mean, this kind of thing could have happened on a plane, in a road rage incident, in a movie theatre, or on a school campus. Is the bus context really relevant?

[Uncle Doof]

Interest fifth comment:

My first thought was that they did not describe the man what so ever, normally they do. Why not? I thought it sounded like a terrorist or wanna be terrorist fear tactic, but the most interesting part is how they did not describe the man who did it. Normally they go into the person's race, name, things they said while attacking... but in this case, nothing? Are they trying to keep us calm? "Protecting us from too much information?".

:hmmm:

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by zombie punk 

Is the bus context really relevant?

Most certainly. It allows us to overreact and declare how unsafe buses are. And why doesn't Greyhound have security guards on every bus to stop something like this... I can't believe the let it happen!!!!

[SirCastor]

Unfortunately, I think mentioning the bus is the point. Anyone who has ridden on a public bus (whether municipal or commercial) can attest that there are always a few weirdos on board. This is simply because compared to other methods of transportation, bus travel is cheap. The "Weirdos" can afford to travel by bus, whereas air travel is out of their reach for financial, or legal reasons.

This story is disturbing... I don't claim to be amazingly courageous or anything, but stabbing someone 40 times takes more than a few seconds. No body on the bus tried to stop the guy?

Greyhound is going to lose a ton of business when this breaks more broadly.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

Most certainly. It allows us to overreact and declare how unsafe buses are. And why doesn't Greyhound have security guards on every bus to stop something like this... I can't believe the let it happen!!!!

You're one of those guys that wants a police/security guard on every street corner, in every bus, in every car and in every home aren't you?

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by SirCastor 

This story is disturbing... I don't claim to be amazingly courageous or anything, but stabbing someone 40 times takes more than a few seconds. No body on the bus tried to stop the guy?

That is the saddest part of the story...people fled the bus instead of stopping this guy. If the guy being stabbed was still alive when people fled the bus, the story is even more sad.

I actually take the Greyhound bus between Montreal and Ottawa fairly often. The story is disturbing but it's not an excuse (like Atheist is suggesting) to put security guards on buses. It's an excuse to stop anyone that has a knife and getting ready to stab people. Had I been on the bus, I probably would have risked my life to stop this deranged asshole. It's not like people don't have something to protect themselves with...there are hand baggages everywhere to grab and use to push against a knife wielding maniac.

This world is kinda sad...and it's not because people steal from others or kill others...it's because people watch it happen and do nothing about it as it's being done.

How many people actually run after thieves or try to stop someone using unnecessary force?

The Cop vs Cyclist video and story about the cop vs the cyclist shows clearly that everyone was letting this cyclist get a beating by a rogue cop. Just because you're up against a guy with a knife or a man in a uniform using brute force on you or someone else doesn't mean you should stand down.

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by SirCastor 

This story is disturbing... I don't claim to be amazingly courageous or anything, but stabbing someone 40 times takes more than a few seconds. No body on the bus tried to stop the guy?

The guy had a very large knife that he was thrusting repeatedly into the poor victims chest. He was probably dead within a few seconds. I seriously doubt there was much anyone could do to help him. Anyone interfering would have probably just gotten themselves seriously injured as well.

It's a horrible situation, but I probably would have done what everyone else did. Save my own ass!

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

The guy had a very large knife that he was thrusting repeatedly into the poor victims chest. He was probably dead within a few seconds. I seriously doubt there was much anyone could do to help him. Anyone interfering would have probably just gotten themselves seriously injured as well.

It's a horrible situation, but I probably would have done what everyone else did. Save my own ass!

Yup...it's the selfish thing to do. And most people are selfish. Almost everyone values their own life more than other people's lives.

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

Yup...it's the selfish thing to do. And most people are selfish. Almost everyone values their own life more than other people's lives.

Why shouldn't they?

[Uncle Doof]

Of course, if Canada had concealed carry...

[starman]

Only in Canada

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

Why shouldn't they?

Here's a better question, if you were being stabbed by some maniac and you were dying and I was around watching you getting stabbed by this maniac, would you be fine with the idea that I should walk away and let you get stabbed to death?

Let me guess, you're going to say "Yeah, I'd be fine with that if your life was threatened also." But deep down, I'm sure you'd wish someone would help you.

[zombie punk]

Well sure, it would be noble, and I would want someone to try to help me, I'm not sure it is reasonable to expect it.

[ghporter]

If I were one of a number of people around that situation, I'd certainly TRY to stop the stabber. It sounds like he was facing backward while he was stabbing, so what's to keep someone in a seat directly in front of his row from grabbing his arm-at the elbow? Slow him down a little and two or three people could disarm him. That's been done on airplanes (where the option to flee wasn't available), so why not on a bus?

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

Here's a better question, if you were being stabbed by some maniac and you were dying and I was around watching you getting stabbed by this maniac, would you be fine with the idea that I should walk away and let you get stabbed to death?

Let me guess, you're going to say "Yeah, I'd be fine with that if your life was threatened also." But deep down, I'm sure you'd wish someone would help you.

Of course I'd wish that someone would attempt to help. But I wouldn't expect it.

[besson3c]

Only in Amaraca... I mean Canada!

[zombie punk]

Canada is in 'Amaraca'.

[besson3c]

Hehhe... Living in AMMARRACCAAA!!!

I'm James Brown!

[Knof8]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

If I were one of a number of people around that situation, I'd certainly TRY to stop the stabber. It sounds like he was facing backward while he was stabbing, so what's to keep someone in a seat directly in front of his row from grabbing his arm-at the elbow? Slow him down a little and two or three people could disarm him. That's been done on airplanes (where the option to flee wasn't available), so why not on a bus?

Fear, the sense that someone else will do something, "Thank god it's not me". All sorts of reasons why people don't help. As far as the airplane that's more along the lines of, "We're trapped up here and if we don't take care of this what's going to happen to us." At least on a bus you can get off, even if it's moving, and survive much better than jumping out a plane with no parachute.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Uncle Doof 

Of course, if Canada had concealed carry...

Heck, even a stun gun (which doesn't count as a concealed carry in the US) could have done the trick.

And yeah, I agree, I think I would have been inclined to try and stop the guy. But people aren't always at their best in scary situations.

[Uncle Doof]

We also have to remember that, if Canada's anything like here (and I believe it is), then people have been conditioned not to get involved and to leave it for the police. The way the law stands here, very few people would get involved not only for fear of being hurt themselves, but also for fear of being locked up for a few years if they somehow hurt the perp's feelings (or something).

Breed sheep and you'll get sheep.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Uncle Doof 

We also have to remember that, if Canada's anything like here (and I believe it is), then people have been conditioned not to get involved and to leave it for the police. The way the law stands here, very few people would get involved not only for fear of being hurt themselves, but also for fear of being locked up for a few years if they somehow hurt the perp's feelings (or something).

Breed sheep and you'll get sheep.

Good point...sad but true. I'm sure if someone tried to stop this maniac from going on his stabbing spree, this person would have been accused of aggression or be charged with assault. The real heroes now go to jail...and the criminals become the heroes. When I heard that 8 police raiding the wrong home, destroying the home with bullet fire, shooting a mom holding a baby, actually got a medals today for taking "the right decisions" of shooting first, asking questions later, I felt sick to my stomach.

http://www.infowars.com/?p=3661

[Eug]

A) The mention of the Greyhound bus is intentional. I never take the bus anymore because the proportion of weirdos is significantly higher. After not taking the bus for several years I made the mistake of putting my mom on the bus for a very short ride (2 hours) and after that she quietly told me that she will only take the train because the bus made her quite uncomfortable.

Plus, the local Greyhound station is completely disorganized. Even if it wasn't so weirdo-laden, I still probably would avoid the bus because of the annoyance factor.

B) If some dude was stabbing me, I'd tell my GF to run, and not try to help me.

C) Depending on the situation, I might try to help. However, running would be high up on my list of options for something like this.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Only in Amreri.... errr.... Canada.

I must say, after taking Greyhound a few times, I think I'd rather fly, take the train, or just stay home.

Those guys need to pass some knife control laws, eh?

I agree that it's odd there was no description of the murderer, but that's actually pretty common in the papers nowadays unless the offender is a white male. So, given that trend, I'd have to say that the guys probably wasn't a white male, or it would have been mentioned.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

When I heard that 8 police raiding the wrong home, destroying the home with bullet fire, shooting a mom holding a baby, actually got a medals today for taking "the right decisions" of shooting first, asking questions later, I felt sick to my stomach.

http://www.infowars.com/?p=3661

Yeah, unreal. I hope the family sues and wins, if they haven't already.

[Eug]

News interview of one of the passengers

[::maroma::]

I think the reactions of most people in a situation such as this comes down to primal instincts. The "fight or flight" instinct that is in everyone takes precedent here. And since most human beings these days usually never have to confront that decision in their lifetime, when something like this happens, it almost always end up being the "flight" decision. In rare occasions we see someone making the "fight" decision and putting their own life on the line to help someone else. But I think its reasonable to see that most people choose to get themselves out of harms way first, and then if there is anything that can be done to help the victim(s), to do that later. (and I'm mostly talking about strangers here.. family/friends tend to be different)

Personally I have no idea how I would react, and I don't think anyone who hasn't been in a similar situation knows how they'd act either. To say with any certainty that you'd jump in and stop the assailant is more wishful thinking than reality, IMO. Its sad, but if I were the one being stabbed in this situation, and I saw people running past me to get away I wouldn't be surprised. I would be bummed, but not surprised.

And on a side note, I stopped taking Grayhound years ago. I'm actually surprised they're still operational and haven't filed for bankruptcy by now. The service is terrible, the facilities are disturbing, and the whole experience is just unpleasant. It has become the mode of long distance transportation for those who simply cannot afford anything better. And that leads to possibly having homicidal maniacs sitting very close to you. Something I'm not willing to gamble on.

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

It has become the mode of long distance transportation for those who simply cannot afford anything better. And that leads to possibly having homicidal maniacs sitting very close to you. Something I'm not willing to gamble on.

Because only poor people are violent killers.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

Because only poor people are violent killers.

That's not what I said, but good for you for making that connection all on your own.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Eug 

News interview of one of the passengers

Another news clip

And another

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

Because only poor people are violent killers.

No, but the mentally ill are disproportionately well-represented in the poor demographic.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

The guy had a very large knife that he was thrusting repeatedly into the poor victims chest. He was probably dead within a few seconds. I seriously doubt there was much anyone could do to help him. Anyone interfering would have probably just gotten themselves seriously injured as well.

How long it would take for someone to bleed to death from a major stab wound to the chest or neck? If this guy got stabbed a bunch of times in quick succession I would hope he slipped into shocked before seeing that everyone was running away from him.

(This is not a value judgment of those on the bus or folks on here. While I would like to think of myself as together enough to try to do something in a situation like this, who knows what I would have done were I actually there and saw it for myself.)

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

That's not what I said, but good for you for making that connection all on your own.

Well then, please enlighten me.

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

No, but the mentally ill are disproportionately well-represented in the poor demographic.

Although there may be correlations between some types of mental illness and violence, there is no direct link between mental illness and violence. The most violent people tend to be psychopaths. I don't think psychopaths fit into a specific economic demographic.

[dcmacdaddy]

My own Greyhound horror story goes something like this.

(Summer 2006)
I am running back and forth to NYC from WDC as I plan to move to NYC at the end of the Summer. I have to go up for interviews and look at apartments and sign leases and all that kind of stuff. So, I took four or five Greyhound bus trips over the course of two months. No big deal, I think. I've been doing it for years, the price is really cheap, and there are buses almost every hour during peak times.

Well, the last trip back, after having signed the lease on a place, I am sitting by the window and trying to dig out my iPod when "Mr. Scruffy" sits down next to me. He was a little grungy but nothing too out-of-the-ordinary for the bus. He makes the basic small-talk of saying "Hi" talking about the weather, and wondering how late the bus will be. But before I can get my ear buds inserted he starts getting deep into some family troubles. And then I get to spend the next four hours listening to him talk about his messed up family, how he got into the "family business" (i.e.: the mob) and how he got out after coming home to find a rival mobster killing his four-year-old niece. This guy was OUT THERE. I get every gory detail about what its like to kill someone, with both a gun and a knife, and how he couldn't stop fixating on the image of his niece as she was dying. His description of what he did to the rival mobster took a good 30 minutes and went into minute details as to how he killed him, sliced up the body, and disposed of it in the woods.

Needless to say I am freaked out and hoping this guy doesn't feel like slicing up me after our little chat. (By this point I had assumed he was more of a psychotic whack-job than mob hit-man so I figured he might just want to off me for some weird, psycho reason.) So, I am thinking he is delusional, psychotic, and maybe a junkie of some sort. As we get into the city limits of DC he finally stops talking and just sits there. Suddenly, he breaks into small-talk mode again and asks about my plans in DC, where I live, how do I like living in DC, etc. So, he gets from me a false name, neighborhood, address, reason for going to DC: the whole bit. As we are getting off the bus he shakes my hand and says "good talking with you". I see him making a bee-line for North Capitol and K Streets and assume he was rushing to score a fix (that intersection and another one further up North Capitol Street are hotbeds for heroin addicts). I am feeling somewhat relieved thinking the guy was just a drugged-out nutcase with delusions of grandeur from watching too many episodes of the Sopranos.

To be sure, I checked out his story online when I got home and found nothing serious that could corroborate what he said. But that was the scariest bus trip I have ever had. And I have ridden Greyhound probably 500 times in the past 20+ years.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

Well then, please enlighten me.

Take it as you will, as I'm sure anything I say from here on out will fall upon deaf ears. I meant nothing offensive by it. I wasn't trying to make some sort of grand statement about poor people. If I offended you or anyone else, I'm sorry. Such is life on the Internet.

[Big Mac]

Good thing all that "free" Canadian health care keeps the mental cases well taken care of.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

That is one of the most messed up things I have heard this year.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

Because only poor people are violent killers.

There is a very strong correlation between poverty and crime.

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by ::maroma:: 

Take it as you will, as I'm sure anything I say from here on out will fall upon deaf ears. I meant nothing offensive by it. I wasn't trying to make some sort of grand statement about poor people. If I offended you or anyone else, I'm sorry. Such is life on the Internet.

Relax man. I agree with almost everything you said in your post.

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

There is a very strong correlation between poverty and crime.

The implication was violent crime.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

The implication was violent crime.

There is a significant correlation between poverty and violent crime.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Eug 

There is a significant correlation between poverty and violent crime.

Come on Eug, don't wave the facts right in his face like that.

[Atheist]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!! 

Come on Eug, don't wave the facts right in his face like that.

Sorry guys... I shouldn't post and write code at the same time. I was confusing 2 different points. (I was concentrating on the mentally ill aspect of poverty).

I agree that there appears to be a correlation between poverty and violent crime.

Oh, and with regard to the security guard on the bus thing... I certainly hope you realize that was sarcasm.

Either way, this was a horrific experience for all involved. I listened to the interview with the guy that was sitting directly in front of the victim. I hope I certainly never have to experience anything like that in my lifetime!

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

Relax man. I agree with almost everything you said in your post.

Oh I'm relaxed. In fact that's why I didn't feel like typing out a well thought out response. I'm much too tired/lethargic for that at the moment. My first post took all of my energy for today.

[Uncle Doof]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

Oh, and with regard to the security guard on the bus thing... I certainly hope you realize that was sarcasm.

They could wear nice berets.