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besson3c · Jan 24, 2011, 12:54 AM

He's absolutely right here!

YouTube - Mike Huckabee: Art and music education

(this clip is 2 minutes)

His analogy to dumb terminals is a little off, but he's right that our education system ought to embrace creativity more than it does understanding that there is a definite correlation to the arts and sciences. Being a musician and a computer nerd, I can't tell you how many times I've bumped into people with an interest in both, or at least have some other creative outlet they are passionate about. I'd argue that computer programming in and of itself is a creative act, but I'm also convinced that creative activities including music are incredibly beneficial to the mind. In my opinion we also need to get away from the "go to school, get job x or y" sort of mentality and start looking at mental conditioning and the sorts of things that help nurture intelligence and encourage critical thinking (one of these things being subjects like music and art).

Huckabee's example of great inventors who were also great artists is a good one, this is not a coincidence. Music programs in schools are a wonderful thing, I swear that I've learned more about myself and life through music than any other subject.

besson3c · Jan 24, 2011, 05:36 PM

I'm surprised this didn't at least invoke some sort of reactionary comments about Huckabee

Dork. · Jan 24, 2011, 08:57 PM

This thread needs more Huckabee.

ghporter · Jan 24, 2011, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

I'm surprised this didn't at least invoke some sort of reactionary comments about Huckabee

I don't have to like the man's politics to agree with specific statements. I would point out his track record as governor of Arkansas doesn't seem to reflect his interest in improving education. But I do believe that anyone can learn if given the right situation and appropriately chosen material. Like Mr. Huckabee.

I also agree that programming is a creative process. It's not a set of Lego (especially in some languages) as much as it's creating the cogwheels and gears that go together in various combinations to perform a function. There's a reason many programmers gravitate to "elegant solutions" to programming problems; elegant solutions come from truly creative endeavors.

Big Mac · Jan 24, 2011, 11:00 PM

Whoa, besson has praise for Huckabee? Is besson slowly morphing into one of us, a conservative?

besson3c · Jan 24, 2011, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

I don't have to like the man's politics to agree with specific statements. I would point out his track record as governor of Arkansas doesn't seem to reflect his interest in improving education. But I do believe that anyone can learn if given the right situation and appropriately chosen material. Like Mr. Huckabee.

I also agree that programming is a creative process. It's not a set of Lego (especially in some languages) as much as it's creating the cogwheels and gears that go together in various combinations to perform a function. There's a reason many programmers gravitate to "elegant solutions" to programming problems; elegant solutions come from truly creative endeavors.

Yeah, it seems a little weird to consider programming as a creative act, but it's interesting that people often seem to buy this notion.

What did you think about Huckabee's central point that we have shot ourselves in the foot by de-emphasizing the arts in our school systems?

besson3c · Jan 24, 2011, 11:10 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Whoa, besson has praise for Huckabee? Is besson slowly morphing into one of us, a conservative?

Did you watch the clip? What he was saying really didn't have much to do with traditional left vs. right contentious issues. If this didn't involve Huckabee this thread could have easily gone in the regular lounge. If one absolutely had to insist on making this a left vs. right thing though, I think it would be slightly easier to frame this as a left wing thing, since my experience has suggested that there are a healthy number of left leaning artists. I wouldn't though, that isn't my argument, but I might be interested in a debate where people assume the usual left/right positions to argue the arts in this country.

I have always liked Huckabee's demeanor and approach to debating things in a civil manner, and I've appreciated him speaking out on a couple of things that strayed from right wing political tactics of some, such as his defending Michelle Obama when some people were jumping all over her ass for promoting healthy foods. I'm sure if I paid more attention to him I'd agree with him on certain things, I've always been cool with Huckabee.

I haven't decided whether it was Stewart, Colbert, or Conan that made him though.

ghporter · Jan 24, 2011, 11:15 PM

Multiple studies have shown that the abilities used or developed to learn musical or artistic skills enhance the student's performance in "hard" disciplines such as math and science. By cutting arts programs, we have indeed shot ourselves in the foot-we've taken away a means for students to become better students. I find that there is little "life value" gained in organized sports that cannot be gleaned from some engagement in the arts. Including competitiveness and teamwork. Yet American schools are consistently cutting programs to help them afford football and (sometimes) basketball. What message does that send?

besson3c · Jan 24, 2011, 11:17 PM

I'm around people that often bitch about sports-heavy priorities in education, this has been the case for years now. I guess the reason behind this involves the idea that generally speaking sports can be monetized more effectively than the arts?

It kind of sucks when the only band options available in some schools are pep band at sporting events. This can be fun, but it's usually not all that fulfilling from the perspective of the more advanced student musicians

besson3c · 11:38 PM

ebuddy · Jan 26, 2011, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

I don't have to like the man's politics to agree with specific statements. I would point out his track record as governor of Arkansas doesn't seem to reflect his interest in improving education. But I do believe that anyone can learn if given the right situation and appropriately chosen material. Like Mr. Huckabee.

What would you cite of Huckabee's record on education in Arkansas that would illustrate a poor track record? It's not enough to cite their current ranking without acknowledging their ranking prior to his election. Did the state of education and related student achievement decline while he was governor?

He's cited noteworthy gains in achievement through the programs he initiated such as Smart Start, Smart Step, and Arkansas’ Comprehensive Testing, Assessment and Accountability Program. He would cite improvements such as literacy scores for the fourth grade NAEP tests have increased 7 percent, and eighth grade literacy has increased 3 percent. Fourth grade mathematics increased 21 percent and eighth grade mathematics increased 12 percent. He would cite that students in Arkansas now meet or exceed the national average in each of these areas whereas this was not the case prior. He would cite an increase in teacher pay and college enrollment during his time in office.

Don't get me wrong, I think as a Presidential candidate he'll get eaten alive, but I'm not sure it has anything to do with his performance as governor as he's garnered quite a lot of respect for his leadership from both sides of the aisle.

Taliesin · Jan 26, 2011, 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

Multiple studies have shown that the abilities used or developed to learn musical or artistic skills enhance the student's performance in "hard" disciplines such as math and science. By cutting arts programs, we have indeed shot ourselves in the foot-we've taken away a means for students to become better students. I find that there is little "life value" gained in organized sports that cannot be gleaned from some engagement in the arts. Including competitiveness and teamwork. Yet American schools are consistently cutting programs to help them afford football and (sometimes) basketball. What message does that send?

Sports is also very important, a healthy body can be a good vessel for a healthy spirit. Sports can teach a lot of things, besides the health-aspects, namely endurance, training to get better, teamwork, tactics and strategy... it also teaches one how to deal with victory and failure.

That said art should also be equally supported, it shouldn't be a mutually exclusive thing, they should be seen in tandem "Arts & sports".

Taliesin

besson3c · Jan 27, 2011, 02:56 AM

I was thinking of posting 23094283049 pictures of Mike Huckabee to amuse Dork., but I'm too lazy.

Taliesin · Jan 27, 2011, 05:17 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

I was thinking of posting 23094283049 pictures of Mike Huckabee to amuse Dork., but I'm too lazy.

See what I mean, had you practiced more and regularly sport, you wouldn't be as lazy now and being posting these pictures...

besson3c · Jan 27, 2011, 05:42 AM

Originally Posted by Taliesin

See what I mean, had you practiced more and regularly sport, you wouldn't be as lazy now and being posting these pictures...

What I'd really like to do is Photoshop Huckabee into Dork's favorite porn films...

Taliesin · 07:32 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

What I'd really like to do is Photoshop Huckabee into Dork's favorite porn films...

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm1953732864/tt0145660