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typoon · Jun 11, 2007, 10:05 PM

Anyone else having trouble with viewing the Keynote? I'm only getting audio.

Lava Lamp Freak · Jun 11, 2007, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by nerd

I just hope you can turn off the transparency on the menu bar. I don't care for it, I don't think Menu Meters, etc. will look good on it that way. The finder doesn't appear to be too different if you turn off the cover flow thing. I personally won't run with it that way.

Yea, the transparent menu bar is something I would turn off if there is the option. I also prefer the current dock to the new one. I really could care less about the reflections of icons and windows close to the dock. My first thought after watching the videos makes me think of Vista. I used it for the first time last week and shivered at how toyish it is. I don't get why all OSes must take on a transparent look.

Super Mario · Jun 11, 2007, 10:17 PM

The menu bar is my only complaint. It's ugly as two dysfunctional inbreds. If it had commands going across the whole of it like some apps do my eyes would die. The transparency has to go. I can't look at text in that way.

This is how a new menu bar should have been done - give it the same theme as the window manager doh! When an app is maximized to take up the fullscreen in Leopard it will look ugly to have a transparent menu the way Apple has done it.

nerd · Jun 11, 2007, 10:20 PM

I guess I'm alright with the new dock as long as it doesn't waste any more space then then current one. It might be one of those things I need to get used to. A while back I dug out my public beta of 10.0 and it was ugly! Leopard might do the same thing, get used to it and then think the older OS is bad. I actually think that way now since I run Uno.

OreoCookie · Jun 11, 2007, 10:21 PM

I thought that Apple has made quite some progress with the GUI. Some is just eyecandy, but I think stacks can actually be very useful. I'm not sure whether you can make stacks on your Desktop, though.

IMHO the most important improvements concern the Finder (looks much cleaner, the quick preview is a very nice feature to have), Time Machine (probably the single-most important feature) and a unified UI. I don't mind the transparent menu on first glance, but that's just eye candy. I'm also positively impressed by Safari 3, it seems to be much more reactive, no more waiting until a window closes.

MacosNerd · Jun 11, 2007, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by Super Mario

Gonna hold you to that when Leopard comes out, noobie.

I'm no newbie. I've been using a mac since before system 7

analogue SPRINKLES · Jun 11, 2007, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by nerd

I guess I'm alright with the new dock as long as it doesn't waste any more space then then current one.

It looks a bit taller to me to make space for all that reflection.

Atomic Rooster · Jun 11, 2007, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by nerd

I guess I'm alright with the new dock as long as it doesn't waste any more space then then current one.

You do know you can shrink it down or make it pop up and down?

I know, dumb question.

Obi Wan's Ghost · Jun 11, 2007, 11:29 PM

Underwhelmed. The one thing that was impressive was the video wall demo app that isn't going to be included with Leopard and probably requires an an eight core Mac Pro with high end graphics.

Eug · Jun 11, 2007, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by Obi Wan's Ghost

Underwhelmed.

Yeah, the investors aren't happy either, as the stock was down over 4 bucks today. That said, it's probably the sell-on-news thing to a large extent, and it had to come down sometime anyway.

I'm just disappointed that there's no new iMac. Here's hoping for tomorrow...

Super Mario · Jun 11, 2007, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by MacosNerd

I'm no newbie. I've been using a mac since before system 7

If you're a noob on NN you're a noob period!

analogue SPRINKLES · Jun 11, 2007, 11:39 PM

So is ichat screen sharing gone?

- - e r i k - - · Jun 11, 2007, 11:41 PM

I am worried how that dock is going to look when placed along the side pinned to the bottom corner like any sane Mac user would use it.

And for crying out loud Apple... transparent menu bar?

I guess I'll just have to modify all my desktop backgrounds to include a built in menu bar to compensate :/

- - e r i k - - · 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

So is ichat screen sharing gone?

Nope. Button is still there.

Bottom right of the buddy list window.

- - e r i k - - · Jun 11, 2007, 11:42 PM

Originally Posted by Super Mario

If you're a noob on NN you're a noob period!

Shut up noob

Atomic Rooster · Jun 12, 2007, 12:02 AM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

And for crying out loud Apple... transparent menu bar?

I guess I'll just have to modify all my desktop backgrounds to include a built in menu bar to compensate :/

I thought I heard Steve say the Menu bar compensates itself according to the picture to make it easy to read.

- - e r i k - - · Jun 12, 2007, 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Nope. Button is still there.

Even better. It's also in Finder now:

- - e r i k - - · Jun 12, 2007, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster

I thought I heard Steve say the Menu bar compensates itself according to the picture to make it easy to read.

Still makes the menus look awkward as they are still aqua.

Eug · Jun 12, 2007, 12:13 AM

Perhaps Apple or someone else will have a way to set the level of transparency in the menu bar.

mindwaves · Jun 12, 2007, 12:15 AM

I'm personally happy with how 10.5 is shaping up. I was not impressed with 10.4.

- - e r i k - - · Jun 12, 2007, 12:15 AM

Some notes from the floor:

Originally Posted by inkhead, MacRumors.com

A couple of notes from Moscone WWDC (woohoo!)

Menubar transparency can be turned off

However after trying it out, you never want to, it makes you more focused, and less distracted. I thought it was ugly, then tried it. It's actually very good for productivity.

It's fast.

Stacks are fantastic.

The new finder is absolutely the best part. How many years have we wanted a cocoa finder? It's HERE!!!!! Browsing network shares is no longer met with delays, it's using the fast Unix finally. I can try to mount 10 shares without every seeing a cursor.

Proper multi-threaded support. No more pauses when clicking on the menubar or anything else. Apps keep chugging along.

No more beachball so far.

It's the perfect OS for productivity. No crazy changes, just refinement to the extreme.

It's a beautiful thing!

DVD player has been able to play HD-DVDs for a long time. It has blu-ray and HD-DVD settings in prefs now.

Dock works fine on the sides, 3D but the icons are sideways (proper) with shadow. Looks awesome on the side. I'd post pictures but I'd rather not be in Apple prison.

Emphasis mine.

The icons are turned clockwise and anti-clockwise with the dock on the side now? I'll have to see that for myself before I judge it.

- - e r i k - - · Jun 12, 2007, 12:20 AM

Also from MacRumors:

Performance Optimizations
The addition of the 8-core Mac Pro saw benchmarks that demonstrated diminishing returns with some applications. Barefeats had speculated that this was due to inefficiencies in Tiger's scheduler. It appears that Leopard will be addressing this with a scheduler further optimized for multi-core systems, as well as built-in support for Message Passing Interface (MPI) 2.0.

In addition to multi-core enhancements, Apple states that other various portions of the OS have been optimized including a self-tuning TCP stack (eliminating the need for specialized tools such as Broadband Tuner), and a multithreaded 'autofs' filesystem layer.

Apple states that all these technologies are universal, meaning both Intel Mac users and PowerPC users will benefit from the enhancements.

Kerrigan · Jun 12, 2007, 12:26 AM

I know that it's a cardinal rule for Mac users to bitch about every release, and I'm strongly tempted to bitch about the new dock and the stacks feature.

Overall though, I'm going to give it a thumbs up, and I'll continue to prefer OSX over Windows.

Atomic Rooster · Jun 12, 2007, 12:27 AM

Originally Posted by - - e r i k - -

Still makes the menus look awkward as they are still aqua.

So are the scroll bars. If the UI is to resemble iTunes they should be like iTunes.

But they have a few months left. You think they could have got the little things right.

If not there will be patches.

Stogieman · Jun 12, 2007, 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by Obi Wan's Ghost

Underwhelmed. The one thing that was impressive was the video wall demo app that isn't going to be included with Leopard and probably requires an an eight core Mac Pro with high end graphics.

What!? I thought you of all people would be impressed with the Obi Wan effect in iChat.

Obi Wan's Ghost · Jun 12, 2007, 12:47 AM

Originally Posted by Stogieman

What!? I thought you of all people would be impressed with the Obi Wan effect in iChat.

I'll think about iChat and iPhone when Apple does VOIP.

Eug · Jun 12, 2007, 12:48 AM

DVD player has been able to play HD-DVDs for a long time. It has blu-ray and HD-DVD settings in prefs now.

Does it support commercial discs now?

Salty · Jun 12, 2007, 12:50 AM

Well I have to say I'm a bit shocked I knew you guys'd be bitching but this is nutty for what we got today. I'm excited about stacks, I keep my apps folder in the dock for easy access but this looks way better and more intuitive. Overall I think the update looks great. Think about Tiger what were the big features, Dashboard and RSS? New Mail? Seriously compare this to Tiger and Leopard kicks ass!
OK TIme Machine looks sweet still since it was announced I can count several times I've wished I had it. Spaces is gonna be a HUGE thing for me. the new dock looks sweet, the new Finder looks great and far sweeter. Coverflow turns out to be a favourite thing for Steve but that makes sense. I have had lots of friends download photos from friends off a USB drive or something, and they want to view em telling them they need to throw them in iPhoto first when they're used to Windows just letting them leaf through them has always been a bit of a shame for me. This beats XP's manner of doing that hands down!
Quick Look is going to be a HUGE time saver for me! I'm super excited about that. Core Animation of course is gonna be cool. As well I know lots of iTunes users who are going to switch to Safari.
Safari much like the iPod and iTunes are great for getting people to realize hmm maybe a Mac could work for me.
Though I do hate the translucent menu bar, the rest of things just look great! I'm super excited can't wait till the webcast isn't dead slow so I can watch!

Atomic Rooster · Jun 12, 2007, 01:04 AM

Yes but is it Snappy?

nerd · Jun 12, 2007, 01:07 AM

I'm excited about Leopard as well, it's just that menu bar, I can't get it out of my head.

Jawbone54 · Jun 12, 2007, 01:21 AM

Anyone noticed: no more hard drive icon on the desktop anymore?

Anyone else happy?

TheoCryst · Jun 12, 2007, 01:25 AM

I watched the webcast, and I'm really excited. There's nothing super-revolutionary that will change the face of computing forever, but there are a ton of little niceties that I'll be getting used to very quickly. Way more than 10.3 to 10.4, I gotta say. And the menubar? Meh. Hopefully the transparency is optional.

And damnit, where's my new iWork? *fumes*

analogue SPRINKLES · Jun 12, 2007, 01:33 AM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Anyone noticed: no more hard drive icon on the desktop anymore?

Anyone else happy?

Thrilled.

Although I am not happy you can still save things to the desktop and mess it up.

TETENAL · Jun 12, 2007, 01:37 AM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Thrilled.

Although I am not happy you can still save things to the desktop and mess it up.

Change permissions to read only: problem solved. You don't even have to upgrade to Leopard!

Jawbone54 · Jun 12, 2007, 01:38 AM

I'm actually kind of liking the menubar transparency.
Please, be gentle...

Originally Posted by TheoCryst

I watched the webcast, and I'm really excited. There's nothing super-revolutionary that will change the face of computing forever, but there are a ton of little niceties that I'll be getting used to very quickly. Way more than 10.3 to 10.4, I gotta say. And the menubar? Meh. Hopefully the transparency is optional.

I'm with you on this one. Nothing as revolutionary as the iPhone was, but still plenty to be pleased with. Stacks, Spaces, new Finder, Time Machine, Quick Look, and Safari 3 are all good reasons to give a nice little handclap. Sure, it's disappointing to not see new iMacs or a redesigned Mac Mini, but we don't really need a Stevenote to get excited about those things, do we? Why are we so dependent upon Steve announcing them? They could come out in a month or two, and I'd be perfectly happy to be pleasantly surprised while randomly loading up the Apple page one day.

Jawbone54 · Jun 12, 2007, 01:39 AM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Thrilled.

Although I am not happy you can still save things to the desktop and mess it up.

You don't have to mess it up. If you want to avoid that, you can.

Why is this an issue if it's totally up to the user?

Super Mario · Jun 12, 2007, 01:52 AM

I don't need Time Machine. I don't need Spaces. I don't need a slow way to find files like Cover Flow. Icon view is the fastest way. If I can still download my girls to the desktop and fix that ugly menubar I'll be alrighty with the rest.

BIG QUESTION is does anything in Leopard improve my work flow? I can't see it. It's still double click a file, open it, work, save. WHERE'S THE REVOLUTION!!!?!?!?!?!

I want to see a novel approach to computing that leaves Windows and Linux eating sh!t.

Jawbone54 · Jun 12, 2007, 01:55 AM

This wasn't revolutionary; it was evolutionary. Perfection is never instantaneous...it's a journey.

I think some Mac fans are setting their standards a bit too high.

Also, don't forget that Apple has always been really into the "coolness" factor. Some of these features are just plain cool.

Big Mac · Jun 12, 2007, 01:57 AM

Originally Posted by Super Mario

I don't need Time Machine. I don't need Spaces. I don't need a slow way to find files like Cover Flow. Icon view is the fastest way. If I can still download my girls to the desktop and fix that ugly menubar I'll be alrighty with the rest.

BIG QUESTION is does anything in Leopard improve my work flow? I can't see it. It's still double click a file, open it, work, save. WHERE'S THE REVOLUTION!!!?!?!?!?!

I want to see a novel approach to computing that leaves Windows and Linux eating sh!t.

There are only so many ways to accomplish a given task, Mario. It's like you - you can either jump on a goomba's head, do a spin attack of some sort or throw a fireball. What else is left?

Super Mario · Jun 12, 2007, 02:03 AM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

There are only so many ways to accomplish a given task, Mario. It's like you - you can either jump on a goomba's head, do a spin attack of some sort or throw a fireball. What else is left?

This is the revolution.

I see a file icon. It's a live preview. I perform a gesture on it and it scales up to full document size without delay. Application launch is transparent. I work on the document until I am happy. I perform a gesture over the title bar or click save and then the document shrinks back to a live preview icon.

copyright and patent MacNN member Super Mario as of date of this comment

THAT is just one example of revolution!!!!!!!!

analogue SPRINKLES · Jun 12, 2007, 02:06 AM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

You don't have to mess it up. If you want to avoid that, you can.

Why is this an issue if it's totally up to the user?

Because everyone does it. Even Apple says so on the Leopard page. It is irresistible and it results in a crap mess.

Big Mac · Jun 12, 2007, 02:19 AM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Because everyone does it. Even Apple says so on the Leopard page. It is irresistible and it results in a crap mess.

It may be an issue for you. I have known people who cannot keep their file structure clean. It's not a problem for me, however, so please don't advocate taking a feature away from me because it's too much for you to handle.

Chuckit · Jun 12, 2007, 02:35 AM

Originally Posted by Super Mario

This is the revolution.

I see a file icon. It's a live preview. I perform a gesture on it and it scales up to full document size without delay. Application launch is transparent. I work on the document until I am happy. I perform a gesture over the title bar or click save and then the document shrinks back to a live preview icon.

copyright and patent MacNN member Super Mario as of date of this comment

THAT is just one example of revolution!!!!!!!!

That sounds a) magic, and b) borderline unusable.

Jawbone54 · Jun 12, 2007, 02:57 AM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Because everyone does it. Even Apple says so on the Leopard page. It is irresistible and it results in a crap mess.

It's not irresistible to someone who really cares about their desktop's appearance.

Sometimes (only sometimes), being able to use the desktop as a dump for some files I'm using that day comes in handy. Stacks looks like it will help me out with that, but I still want it to be available to me if I want it.

Don't take away my desktop freedom.

Super Mario · Jun 12, 2007, 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

That sounds a) magic, and b) borderline unusable.

a) it is magic

b) it is better than the combination of Cover Flow and Quick Look which try to get half way there

Jawbone54 · Jun 12, 2007, 02:59 AM

Originally Posted by Super Mario

This is the revolution.

I see a file icon. It's a live preview. I perform a gesture on it and it scales up to full document size without delay. Application launch is transparent. I work on the document until I am happy. I perform a gesture over the title bar or click save and then the document shrinks back to a live preview icon.

copyright and patent MacNN member Super Mario as of date of this comment

THAT is just one example of revolution!!!!!!!!

You perform a gesture? Like...rubbing your belly and patting your head?

That does sound revolutionary, come to think of it.

Super Mario · Jun 12, 2007, 03:00 AM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

It's not irresistible to someone who really cares about their desktop's appearance.

Sometimes (only sometimes), being able to use the desktop as a dump for some files I'm using that day comes in handy. Stacks looks like it will help me out with that, but I still want it to be available to me if I want it.

Don't take away my desktop freedom.

I use my desktop for many temporary files, current projects I want to access quick and downloads. It is never messy. I know where and what everything is.

Super Mario · Jun 12, 2007, 03:02 AM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

You perform a gesture? Like...rubbing your belly and patting your head?

You can configure it that way but I prefer to prod the screen with a stick

When I get a large multi touch I'll be able to prod with two sticks.

hint hint (iPhone and Surface already have the tech I wrote in that post)

Chuckit · Jun 12, 2007, 03:06 AM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

You perform a gesture? Like...rubbing your belly and patting your head?

That does sound revolutionary, come to think of it.

Pish. I've been able to do that ever since I was little and Sesame Street suggested I wouldn't be able to.

Super Mario · Jun 12, 2007, 04:36 AM

Photosynth is like what I am talking about!!!!! Jobs demo'd something like that. No more icons in the future. We need live previews that zoom up and we can edit right away!