[Lysistrata]

from: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/487412.html

Christians in Jerusalem want Jews to stop spitting on them

A few weeks ago, a senior Greek Orthodox clergyman in Israel attended a meeting at a government office in Jerusalem's Givat Shaul quarter. When he returned to his car, an elderly man wearing a skullcap came and knocked on the window. When the clergyman let the window down, the passerby spat in his face.

The clergyman prefered not to lodge a complaint with the police and told an acquaintance that he was used to being spat at by Jews. Many Jerusalem clergy have been subjected to abuse of this kind. For the most part, they ignore it but sometimes they cannot.

On Sunday, a fracas developed when a yeshiva student spat at the cross being carried by the Armenian Archbishop during a procession near the Holy Sepulchre in the Old City. The archbishop's 17th-century cross was broken during the brawl and he slapped the yeshiva student.

Both were questioned by police and the yeshiva student will be brought to trial. The Jerusalem District Court has meanwhile banned the student from approaching the Old City for 75 days.

But the Armenians are far from satisfied by the police action and say this sort of thing has been going on for years. Archbishop Nourhan Manougian says he expects the education minister to say something.

"When there is an attack against Jews anywhere in the world, the Israeli government is incensed, so why when our religion and pride are hurt, don't they take harsher measures?" he asks.

According to Daniel Rossing, former adviser to the Religious Affairs Ministry on Christian affairs and director of a Jerusalem center for Christian-Jewish dialogue, there has been an increase in the number of such incidents recently, "as part of a general atmosphere of lack of tolerance in the country."

Rossing says there are certain common characeristics from the point of view of time and location to the incidents. He points to the fact that there are more incidents in areas where Jews and Christians mingle, such as the Jewish and Armenian quarters of the Old City and the Jaffa Gate.

There are an increased number at certain times of year, such as during the Purim holiday."I know Christians who lock themselves indoors during the entire Purim holiday," he says.

Former adviser to the mayor on Christian affairs, Shmuel Evyatar, describes the situation as "a huge disgrace." He says most of the instigators are yeshiva students studying in the Old City who view the Christian religion with disdain.

"I'm sure the phenomenon would end as soon as rabbis and well-known educators denounce it. In practice, rabbis of yeshivas ignore or even encourage it," he says.

Evyatar says he himself was spat at while walking with a Serbian bishop in the Jewish quarter, near his home. "A group of yeshiva students spat at us and their teacher just stood by and watched."

Jerusalem municipal officials said they are aware of the problem but it has to be dealt with by the police. Shmuel Ben-Ruby, the police spokesman, said they had only two complaints from Christians in the past two years. He said that, in both cases, the culprits were caught and punished.

He said the police deploy an inordinately high number of patrols and special technology in the Old City and its surroundings in an attempt to keep order.

[vmarks]

Originally posted by Lysistrata:
from: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/487412.html

Christians in Jerusalem want Jews to stop spitting on them


"When there is an attack against Jews anywhere in the world, the Israeli government is incensed, so why when our religion and pride are hurt, don't they take harsher measures?" he asks.

Because when you don't report it to the Police, it's hard to expect them to do anything.

Furthermore, "Both were questioned by police and the yeshiva student will be brought to trial. The Jerusalem District Court has meanwhile banned the student from approaching the Old City for 75 days."

Isn't bringing accused to trial what civilized countries do? What harsher action do you suppose should be taken?

[Lysistrata]

Ah, blaming the victim. The justification continues.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Lysistrata:
Ah, blaming the victim. The justification continues.

How was he blaming the victim?

"Because when you don't report it to the Police, it's hard to expect them to do anything.

Furthermore, "Both were questioned by police and the yeshiva student will be brought to trial. The Jerusalem District Court has meanwhile banned the student from approaching the Old City for 75 days."

Isn't bringing accused to trial what civilized countries do? What harsher action do you suppose should be taken?"

Seems they've brought the kid up on charges and are handling it properly. What's your beef?

[Lysistrata]

Who gets charged? The bishop: http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/486934.html

[Lysistrata]

more anti-christian bigotry: http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2004..._199_30_04.txt

[Millennium]

Originally posted by Lysistrata:
Who gets charged? The bishop: http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/486934.html

The bishop was, admittedly, the only one who made a physical assault. The student likewise went further than the normal custom, but it seems the only thing he is guilty of is extreme rudeness. What he did was wrong, but it was not a crime. What would you have them prosecute him for?

Then there's the other post you made, which appears to be in no way related to your own thread; for crying out loud, they don't even occur in the same country. Although you do have a point that the Judaism-centric quotes and images are not being removed, it's worth noting that these quotes and images are not in the actual courtroom, as the Roosevelt quote is. Further, the Roosevelt quote will only be covered while court is actually in session.

[ebuddy]

Jews and Christians would likely be at odds regarding one major issue; Jesus. What we need to realize, Jews and Christians alike, is that we await the same Messiah. We look to the same God for guidance and we (as Christians) are most sympathetic to the historic plight of the Jew. It's this very persecution we (as Christians) will endure in the end times. Hopefully, this gap of ideals will thin, but likely only at a time when Christians witness a second-coming, the Jews believe it will be the first.

[Lysistrata]

From: http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Sto...329380,00.html

Ultra-orthodox Jews 'must stop religious abuse'

erusalem's Christian community has demanded that Jewish leaders and the Israeli government take action against what they claim is growing harassment of their clergy by religious Jews.

Christians say ultra-Orthodox Jewish students spit at them or at the ground when they pass. There have also been acts of vandalism against statues of the Virgin Mary.

The harassment came to a head last week when a Jewish student spat at Armenian Archbishop Nourhan Manougian and ripped off his crucifix, whereupon the archbishop slapped him. The police questioned both men.

Mainstream Israeli opinion has been revolted by the revelations of the abuse of Christian clergy. Avraham Poraz, the interior minister, condemned the trend of spitting at the cross and those wearing it, saying it was 'intolerable' and that he was 'revolted' by it. A former chief rabbi also voiced his outrage.

All the Christian groups complain of harassment, but the Armenians bear the brunt. Armenian clergymen said that, when they complained to the interior minister seven months ago, he told them: 'Most Jews have a big problem with them as well.'

The 3,000-strong community live in the Armenian quarter and many Jews walk through it on their way from west Jerusalem to the Wailing Wall or Western Wall.

Father Pakrad Bourjekian, a spokesman for the Armenian church, said the attack was an extreme example of the harassment they receive every day. 'Every day the fanatical Jews turn their face to the wall or spit on the ground or at us when they see the crucifix,' he said.

The Christians admit that it is only a minority who carry out the abuse, but they feel that the issue is being ignored by religious leaders.

Bishop Aris Shirvanian of the Armenian church said: 'The majority are courteous or indifferent. The problem is the very religious. It's a question of education. What must these people be learning to behave like this?'

The old city of Jerusalem is buzzing with rumours that young Armenians will take revenge for the attack and the daily indignities suffered by their priests.

Bishop Aris acknowledged that there was a danger of reprisals. 'We are trying to control our young people and we are succeeding. But the question is that there is no one in the Jewish community trying to control their fanatics,' he said.

Father Pakrad added: 'There is no hierarchy. Anyone can become a rabbi, set up an institution, get funds from abroad and teach what they like.'

Jerusalem has always been a city of conflict. Even the old Christian churches - the Armenian, Orthodox, Coptic, Syrian, Ethiopian and Catholic - are known for their disputes, which regularly result in brawls.

In the current dispute, the Muslims, the old city's biggest group, are for once not involved. 'I do not think these Jews would dare spit at a Muslim sheikh; the whole city would explode. We are only a small group, so it easy to bully us,' said Bishop Aris.