[PacHead]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

I'm sending a copy of this thread to my friend in the bureau.

Terrorists and potential terrorists often participate in internet discussions. Just recently, a plot was uncovered and stopped because of monitoring of internet discussions.

[Sosa]

Originally Posted by greenG4

At the least hey find it "more valid" than under Hussein. Re: Electoral Process--I guess Iraqis are more involved in their political process than people in the US. A 2/3 turn-out for voting is astounding. Especially when they were threatend by terrorists to not go to the polls.

The distinction is targeting. Terrosists specifically target civilians. We do not.

You may find it more valid than under Hussein but hey, its not your country! If you want to see what Iraqis really think about their government and the US occupation, turn on your news and count the dead.

US does target civilians. When you blow up the house were Zarqawi was staying, knowing full well that there is a family living there, you are targeting civilians and committing terror. But more than that, I believe this is done blatantly to terrorize the Iraqi population.

[greenG4]

Originally Posted by Sosa

But more than that, I believe this is done blatantly to terrorize the Iraqi population.

Then you're beyond help.

(Edit) And also clearly a terrorist symphathizer. I'm left with no other conclusion.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by greenG4

Good. I hope you're serious.

Yes, I was. And yes, I did.

[greenG4]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Yes, I was. And yes, I did.

Excellent. I was in the process of emailing the FBI too, but since you got a man on the inside...

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by greenG4

Excellent. I was in the process of emailing the FBI too, but since you got a man on the inside...

He's the local guy, we golf together.

[Sosa]

GreenG4, I'm left with no other choice but to conclude you are an imperialist apologizer.

[greenG4]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

He's the local guy, we golf together.

That's great. Can you PM me about what he says in response?

Cody: Sorry about your hijacked thread. But, at least we might have helped to catch a terrorist.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Sosa

GreenG4, I'm left with no other choice but to conclude you are an imperialist apologizer.

And you're little more than a terrorist yourself.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by greenG4

That's great. Can you PM me about what he says in response?

Cody: Sorry about your hijacked thread. But, at least we might have helped to catch a terrorist.

I basically sent a link and asked his opinion, I'll let you know what he says.

[Sosa]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

And you're little more than a terrorist yourself.

MacNStein, you should spend less time golfing and more time getting an education.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Sosa

MacNStein, you should spend less time golfing and more time getting an education.

Really? That's very funny. I've probably been in school (attending and teaching) far longer than you're been a alive.

[Sosa]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Really? That's very funny. I've probably been in school (attending and teaching) far longer than you're been a alive.

Where you really in school or where you thinking of golfing while supposedly trying to learn? A guy like you, doesn't seem like you been getting much out of it. Maybe you should join the FBI yourself, they have been doing a good job lately, arresting gangmembers and accusing them of terrorism!

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Sosa

Where you really in school or where you thinking of golfing while supposedly trying to learn? A guy like you, doesn't seem like you been getting much out of it. Maybe you should join the FBI yourself, they have been doing a good job lately, arresting gangmembers and accusing them of terrorism!

I'll leave that arresting to the proper authorities. It's not my line of work.

Also, the word is "were" not "where".

[Sosa]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

I'll leave that arresting to the proper authorities. It's not my line of work.

Also, the word is "were" not "where".

No, the right word is Paranoid followed by Bigot.

[Demonhood]

if the lot of you can't discuss this topic without resorting to calling each other cold blooded terrorists and hurling insults, then your posting privileges will be revoked.
don't reply to this, trying to justify your behavior. just know that any post after this which does not comply with the rules of this forum will result in your removal.

[vmarks]

Originally Posted by Trygve

So Jews can't live with non-Jews amongst them? Perhaps to make this work, all other countries in the world (including the US) should kick out their Jews and force them back to Israel.

I have nothing against Jews specifically... I am not Jewish but don't care if a Jew lives next door... when should Jews care if I live next door?



As long as the US is willing to attack Israel is they should do anything against their neighbors.

Israel, in case you weren't aware, has Muslims, Christians, Jews, Ba'hai, Druze, and more living happily as Israeli citizens.

It has Muslims serving in the Knesset, highest body of government.

Israel is a home for all, but established with the purpose of making a safe home for Jews when the rest of the world consistently fails at that task.

Israel has repeatedly offered to live alongside a Palestinian state.

The Palestinians don't want to.

[Matius]

Originally Posted by Trygve

No. The US captured people after it had invaded a sovereign country. Same thing in the current situation.... Hezbollah invades and captures. No difference at all. Based on the US approval of Israel's actions, it should be justified for any nation who has captives in Gitmo to attack the US and be justified in doing so.

Israel could end the mess in the ME straight away... withdraw from the Golan, West Bank, Gaza (for real) and Sheba Farms, leave East Jerusalem and compensate the Palestinians whose homes they stole.

As I said, there is a profound difference for those who care to see it or admit it.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Sosa

No, the right word is Paranoid followed by Bigot.

Suit yourself.

[Matius]

Originally Posted by Sosa

You are not serious. You are joking right? You are denying that these things happen? You are denying that there are some evil troops among the 150k occupiers? You are denying that US official policy accepts "collateral damage" ie terrorism of civilians to kill one or two terrorists?

I don't think he's denying that some bad apples have done bad things at all. But he is saying that CNN and other liberal media likes to blow everything out of proportion and only show the bad things. The reason you see about these things "every other day" is because the same story is played everyday until the ratings go down, and then CNN digs up something else negative to highlight. As for "collateral damage", well if you live next to someone who is a terrorist conducting terrorist operations, and do nothing about it/turn a blind eye/don' move, and your house gets obliterated...well IMO---too f@#$ing bad.

Let the bitching from the liberals commence...

[Matius]

Originally Posted by Sosa

Requested to stay by a weak puppet government! Please, the US are occupiers and of most Iraqis (and most Americans too), wants them to leave. Plus the whole war was illegal, but I won't get into that disccusion again!

I hate US foreign policy, for the most part. That is not equivalent to hating your country.

Hmm, when was the last time you asked an Iraqi whether they wanted the US to leave or stay. I don't mean an Iraqi living outside Iraq, I mean one in Iraq that deals with all this every day. I only ask because, other than the fanatics that try to kill you, the populace in general is happy with the things we are accomplishing.

[Sosa]

Originally Posted by Matius

Hmm, when was the last time you asked an Iraqi whether they wanted the US to leave or stay. I don't mean an Iraqi living outside Iraq, I mean one in Iraq that deals with all this every day. I only ask because, other than the fanatics that try to kill you, the populace in general is happy with the things we are accomplishing.

That's ridiculous! It is true a portion of the population wants US troops to stay for a variety of reasons but polls have shown that the majority want occupation forces out. And it is obvious, who wants to have foreigners occupying the country, antagonizing young men, raping and murdering, and using overwhelming firepower on every rebel they encounter, civilians be damned?

And don't blame the messenger, CNN, for attempting to show the truth that Fox News fails to report. But even CNN is baised, I'd recommend Al Jazeera for a more accurate picture of the Middle East. The place is in flames and you have mostly the US and Israel to blame.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Matius

the populace in general is happy with the things we are accomplishing.

You asked an Iraqi?

[greenG4]

[QUOTE=Sosa]That's ridiculous! It is true a portion of the population wants US troops to stay for a variety of reasons but polls have shown that the majority want occupation forces out. And it is obvious, who wants to have foreigners occupying the country, antagonizing young men, raping and murdering, and using overwhelming firepower on every rebel they encounter, civilians be damned?[\QUOTE]

I'll ask a few Iraqis while I'm there...

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by greenG4

I'll ask a few Iraqis while I'm there...

Be sure to be scientific about it (ie: don't just ask the ones hanging around your base and make sure that you aren't armed or accompanied by armed soldiers)

[Matius]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

You asked an Iraqi?

Many

[Matius]

Originally Posted by Sosa

That's ridiculous! It is true a portion of the population wants US troops to stay for a variety of reasons but polls have shown that the majority want occupation forces out. And it is obvious, who wants to have foreigners occupying the country, antagonizing young men, raping and murdering, and using overwhelming firepower on every rebel they encounter, civilians be damned?

And don't blame the messenger, CNN, for attempting to show the truth that Fox News fails to report. But even CNN is baised, I'd recommend Al Jazeera for a more accurate picture of the Middle East. The place is in flames and you have mostly the US and Israel to blame.

Why is that ridiculous? Have you acutally spoken to any Iraqis face to face, or do you simply have your completely unbiased polls and what you read about to go on? Al Jazeera for an accurate picture of what is going on? Please. Once again only the US and Allies in a bad light and every middle eastern citizen a poor, poor victim. Al Jazeera is the equivalent of CNN, but in Arabic. How is anyone antagonizing young men? Raping and murdering, it appears that some troops have been accused of that. If it turns out to be true then they have dishonored the US and will be punished accordingly. As for overwhelming firepower, HELL YES! What should we do, count rounds. "Hey, he fired four shots at us, so we can only fire four back, right? Damn, he just fired six more, now two more, what was the count again?! Damn!" Two words, Screw That. Force is met with force, and Sosa my friend let me let you in on a little secret of combat (since I am fairly positive you are unfamiliar with urban combat)--Superior firepower, especially in the hands of a more skilled shooter, wins.

Care to talk comment on anything else of which you have no first hand knowledge?

[Cody Dawg]

This thread is something else.



I'm small fry compared to you guys, MacNStein (who, by the way, is VERY well connected), GreenG4, dmcdaddy, Matius (who obviously knows what he's talking about) and PacHead (who cracks me up every time because he's brutally honest about his feelings). I can't argue with these nutjobs the way you guys can, so hijack the thread away...

Actually, it's good to get some of this stuff out in the open.

Too bad Aberdeenwriter isn't here because he's always great with facts and factoids, also.

Am I sorry people are dying? Yes, it makes me sick.

But, I honestly do not see any other choice for Israel.

They still care, by the way, about civilians.

The Beirut airport terminal was just completed at a cost of half a BILLION dollars and they have been very careful to spare the airport terminal. Also, sparing hospitals, schools, and other civilian gathering places.

Yes, even in the middle of this defense interaction they've undertaken, they are still showing more compassion than the Palestinian suicide bombers who kill people without a second thought.

[Cody Dawg]

Sosa:

Your recommending Al Jazeera for our news is a joke.

Why? Is there a beheading video that we're missing out on that we don't know about?

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

Be sure to be scientific about it (ie: don't just ask the ones hanging around your base and make sure that you aren't armed or accompanied by armed soldiers)

In other words, stand around and wait to be picked up and beheaded...

right!

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

In other words, stand around and wait to be picked up and beheaded...

right!

Let's say that a force vastly superior to America's was stationed where you live. This force has been accused of imprisioning people simply for being in the wrong place at the wrong time and a few members of this force have murdered some of your fellow citizens without provocation and you felt threatened by it. Now, let's say that a represenitive of that force went around with two well armed guards asking citizens how they felt about that force. Would you feel inclined to tell them how you felt?

I'm not saying Iraqis are, or aren't happy with the US presence. But, if they aren't, they probably aren't likely to be honest if they are asked by armed soldiers, especially after their history with Saddam.

[Cody Dawg]

The fact that Iraqi women can now go out into the streets or to cafes or to the internet cafes without worrying about being kidnapped and raped and killed by Saddam's henchmen or followers is a big improvement.

The women of Iraq are MUCH happier.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

The fact that Iraqi women can now go out into the streets or to cafes or to the internet cafes without worrying about being kidnapped and raped and killed by Saddam's henchmen or followers is a big improvement.
The women of Iraq are MUCH happier.

You're absolutely right. Now they only need to worry about being kidnapped and raped and killed by insurgents and American soldiers.

[besson3c]

I say it once and I say it again: both sides are a part of the conflict, and a part of the problem.

If you want to nitpick about who is worse, go right ahead, although i don't think it will be productive. The solution to this problem is concessions and compromise from both sides.

You can probably say the same thing about any other war too.

[Nicko]

Its late and I don't have any original thoughts so I will post someone else's:

From NYT:

Iran, of course, has long bankrolled Hezbollah, and the Israeli government said yesterday it feared the two kidnapped soldiers were being taken to Tehran. But Syria is the nexus of regional instability, giving shelter to several of the most intransigent Palestinian militants, transferring arms to Hezbollah, and undermining Lebanon’s frail sovereignty.

Israel can brutalize Lebanon all it wants, but unless something is done to stop Syria’s president, Bashar al-Assad, from exporting instability to buttress his despotic regime, little will change.

Once the Israelis end their offensive, Hezbollah will regroup and continue to hold Lebanon hostage through its militia, arguably the most effective force in the country. Hamas leaders in Damascus will continue derailing any negotiations between Israelis and Palestinians. And Syria will continue to eat away at Lebanese independence, reversing the gains of last year when hundreds of thousands of Lebanese marched against Syrian hegemony.

It would be far smarter for Israel, and America, to profit from Hezbollah’s having perhaps overplayed its hand. The popular mood here is one of extreme anger that the group has provoked a conflict Lebanon cannot win. The summer tourism season, a rare source of revenue for a country on the financial ropes, has been ruined. Even Hezbollah’s core supporters, the Shiite Muslims in the south, cannot be happy at seeing their towns and villages turned again into a killing field.

What to do? While the United Nations has been ineffective in its efforts toward Middle East peace, it may be the right body to intervene here, if only because it has the cudgel of Security Council Resolution 1559, which was approved in 2004 and, among other things, calls for Hezbollah’s disarmament.

The five permanent Security Council members, perhaps at this weekend’s Group of 8 meeting, should consider a larger initiative based on the resolution that would include: a proposal for the gradual collection of Hezbollah’s weapons; written guarantees by Israel that it will respect Lebanese sovereignty and pull its forces out of the contested Lebanese land in the Shebaa Farms; and the release of prisoners on both sides. Such a deal could find support among Lebanon’s anti-Syrian politicians, would substantially narrow Hezbollah’s ability to justify retaining its arms, and also send a signal to Syria and particularly Iran that the region is not theirs for the taking.

One important thing: No Lebanese government could legitimately help to advance such a plan if Israel were to try to, as its army chief of staff put it this week, “turn back the clock in Lebanon by 20 years.” Israel must cease its attacks and let diplomacy take over.

Michael Young is the opinion editor of The Daily Star in Lebanon and a contributing editor at Reason magazine.
----------------------------------------

It seems that rash moves by either side would be effectively shooting themselves in the foot.

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

You're absolutely right. Now they only need to worry about being kidnapped and raped and killed by insurgents and American soldiers.

OMG! Mission accomplished!

[Taliesin]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

The fact that Iraqi women can now go out into the streets or to cafes or to the internet cafes without worrying about being kidnapped and raped and killed by Saddam's henchmen or followers is a big improvement.

The women of Iraq are MUCH happier.

Before the 1991-gulfwar, Iraq's women had many more freedoms and rights than in the other middle-east-nations, since the Baath-regime was before that date a very secular regime.

But Saddam's regime came out of the second Gulfwar in 1991 weakend, and feared getting toppled by islamistic political forces, and so Saddam decided to embrace islamic and tribal traditions in order to consolidate his power in Iraq, which of course led to the loss of many women-rights.

If Iraq can stabilise again and the insurgency enters peace-negotiations and the islamistic terrorists get captured and their networks dismanteled, then women's rights might improve again.

But right now, in the situation of a lawless society, where gangs are patrolling the streets, bombs going off regularly and foreign troops in the country, women's freedoms are very curtailed.

Taliesin

[Cody Dawg]

Yes, it may be that you're right - I have a friend who is a professional (physician) over there and she says she is thrilled to be able to go to the markets on the weekends to buy fresh produce whereas before she could not - but the possibilities are much better than before.

The point is, Iraq is much better without Saddam.

Just like Iran will be without their current "president."

Like some others pointed out, the time is perfect to go in and wipe out their president right now. We could do it in concert with Israel.

[Y3a]

Originally Posted by Sosa

You may find it more valid than under Hussein but hey, its not your country! If you want to see what Iraqis really think about their government and the US occupation, turn on your news and count the dead.

The dead insurgents or the dead former Iraqi military soldiers loyal to Saddam , or the dead Taliban, or Zarqawi's dead henchmen?

Originally Posted by Sosa

US does target civilians. When you blow up the house were Zarqawi was staying, knowing full well that there is a family living there, you are targeting civilians and committing terror. But more than that, I believe this is done blatantly to terrorize the Iraqi population.

Are you referring to the 'civilians' who welcomed Zarqawi into their home, and support him and his murdering followers? Or were they just the most recent pawns that Zarqawi and his mob were hiding behind and using as human sheilds? Who's side are YOU on?

[Y3a]

Originally Posted by Sosa

And don't blame the messenger, CNN, for attempting to show the truth that Fox News fails to report. But even CNN is baised, I'd recommend Al Jazeera for a more accurate picture of the Middle East. The place is in flames and you have mostly the US and Israel to blame.

CNN!! HA HA HA Al Jazeera!!?!?!? Even more pathetic.

YOU MUST BE AN IDIOT to think that your Muslim buddies aren't the violent, islamofascists that the rest of the world is getting sick of dealing with.

[Cody Dawg]

AND, as my family and friends predicted, Israel is going all the way:

Syria is now in the crosshairs.



Personally, I don't care. Take 'em all out. They can take out Syria (Lebanon is not really their target) and we'll take out Iran.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Personally, I don't care. Take 'em all out. They can take out Syria (Lebanon is not really their target) and we'll take out Iran.

Sounds good, just don't think that taking out Syria and Iran will be as easy as taking out Iraq or that such wars won't have an impact at home.

(by the way, I don't think anyone was under the illusion that Israel wouldn't go all the way)

[Cody Dawg]

That was a moderate thing to say, Wiskedjak.





I have maintained since we went into Iraq that our purpose for going into Iraq was not just because of Saddam. I believe that one of the purposes of going into Iraq was to get closer to Iran and that when the time was right, we would do something about Iran.

Having said that, I am of the personal belief that Israel and the United States are in concert together with this issue of Hezbollah and Syria.

I believe that before Israel decided to start their offensive that they consulted the United States and the United States gave them their unconditional support and go-ahead.

See, right now we cannot just go into Iran without the world disapproving. But, with Israel now involving Syria, which will involve Iran, we can now become involved on behalf of Israel without the world/U.N./other countries interfering. In other words, we will now have a reason to take out Iran, you see?

I don't think that any of this happened overnight. It took years.

If Israel provokes Iran via Syria and there is a harsh enough response, the United States WILL become involved and that involvement will include action against Iran and will include prohibiting any further development of their nukes.

At the very least, putting Iran on the defensive is going to impede their progression towards nukes and destabilize them.

That is the goal of the Israel and the United States: Destabilize Iran and Iran's cronies.

Both countries want a different Iran and/or a destabilized and/or neutralized Iran. The best that will happen is that we get a puppet government - same as in Pakistan.

[Kerrigan]

Cody, everyone is wringing their hands saying "Oh no, the US will never win a war again! Please, don't make us go up against the mighty Syrian or :gasp: Iranian army, we are doomed to be defeated by these powerful foes!"

We need more people like you to maintain confidence in the ability of the US and the West to stand up to these tin-pot dictators in the Mid East.

[Cody Dawg]

The good thing is that Bush is a man with a mission and is farsighted.

I have my complaints about Bush but when I sit down and converse with someone who is more knowing about certain things (like illegal immigrants) then I usually change my mind and think, "Bush and his cabinet knew more all along."

I truly believe that in 20 years they'll consider him one of the greatest presidents ever because we will have hindsight to fall back on...what IS and what could have been, you know?

I'll pay $5 a gallon in gas to take Iran out.

I believe Iran is the biggest threat to the world since Nazi Germany.

Fortunately, so does Israel and Bush and most Republicans. Heck, even Hillary, whom I despise, admits that Iran is a menace.

Also, Kerrigan, notice that since MacNStein and greenG4 mentioned contacting the FBI about this thread that the usual trolls are nowhere to be found today?

[Sosa]

There are still plenty of trolls hanging around, you for one! I no longer know what to say to your guys that won't get me banned! You are one bloodthirsty guy Cody Dawq. But he who lives by the sword dies by the sword. You probably don't have the guts to go be in the front lines in any invasion of Iran, but you are willing to send many of your country men to certain death. Further, the US will not succeed in Iran, and will become a rogue state and more of an international menance than they already are if they do invade Iran. Don't you see that most of the world is against what you and your fanatics in the Bush administration want to do? You will make even more enemies than you have already. Maybe you should go ahead and invade Iran, it will hasten the end of US imperialism.

Oh and Bush is an idiot (really, talk to his former professors) and has done more to harm US interests than any other president I can think of. But it is true he has the support now of 35% of Americans, so there are plenty of other fools that support him.

[yakkiebah]

In case you haven't noticed, most of the rest of the world is at war with Islamic terrorism aswell.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by Sosa

You are one bloodthirsty guy Cody Dawq.

Cody Dawg is a woman, a sensible one, I may add.

[Sosa]

Originally Posted by yakkiebah

In case you haven't noticed, most of the rest of the world is at war with Islamic terrorism aswell.

I believe the world is united against terrorism. But what exactly terrorism is contentious. I believe there is an official definition by the US government or maybe the UN which is quite broad. Anyway I think what Israel is doing now amounts to state terrorism. If they had limtied themselves to attacking Hezbulla military targets I would have understood, although they still practice terrorism against the Palestinians.

[Sosa]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Cody Dawg is a woman, a sensible one, I may add.

You are one of the most insensible people that I know post here. Thus that opinion from you is next to worthless.