[greenG4]

Originally Posted by ironknee

too bad the us is bogged down in iWaq.

We support Israel in many ways...

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

Hezbollah is backed by Iran and that is precisely why Lebanon is powerless against them. Read vmark's post above and you'll see that the sentiment going around Lebanon is "thank God Israel is getting this terrorist scum out of our country".



Israel will be happy when her neighbors quit trying to destroy her by blowing up buses, kidnapping soldiers and civilians, and firing rockets targetted at civilian populations.

And, logically, drop bombs on a lot of people is the appropriate response.

Then, as any good vendettas...

Of the egg or the chicken, which comes first?

No one remembers, but everyone knows one is the cause of the other...

[Kerrigan]

I understand what you're getting at Pendergast but I disagree. The violence will not stop until Hezbollah is destroyed, it's simple as that. Israel must do anything possible to defend herself from provocation. So what if it's disproportionate? I would say that the targeting of civilians by Hezbollah and democratically elected Hamas is beyond disproportionate, and deserves a stern, painful response.

[PacHead]

Hezbollah will be destroyed, that's pretty much non-negotiable, and if anybody has a problem with that, then that's simply too damn bad, because that's precisely what's going to happen.
I am laughing my ass off reading all of the comments from people on the internet who see this as a bad thing.



Unfortunately for the terrorists, not even the terrorist loving UN will be able to save them this time.

[Kerrigan]

When you look at the types of people who support Hezbollah and terrorist violence, it's sickening. It's always the same, flag waving kids with guns who grin for the photo whenever violence breaks out. People like that have to learn the hard way that war, and violence, are terrible things.

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

When you look at the types of people who support Hezbollah and terrorist violence, it's sickening. It's always the same, flag waving kids with guns who grin for the photo whenever violence breaks out. People like that have to learn the hard way that war, and violence, are terrible things.

War is the universal language that transcends boundaries, everybody understands what it means to get a missile up your ass.

[Sky Captain]

Originally Posted by ironknee

too bad the us is bogged down in iWaq.

Coming from someone who's not there or been there?

[ironknee]

Originally Posted by Sky Captain

Coming from someone who's not there or been there?

please explain.

i HAVE to be in iraq to know?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by ironknee

too bad the us is bogged down in iWaq.

bogged down? No.

I really like that smarmy little W you put in there as well.

Drama...

[red rocket]

The body of child is seen at the site of an attack that struck the vehicles of villagers evacuating out of their village, on the main road near the southern border village of Ter Harfa, Lebanon Saturday July 15, 2006. At least 12 Lebanese villagers, including women and children, were killed in what appeared to be an Israeli airstrike on a convoy of vehicles evacuating a village near the border with Israel in southern Lebanon, a witness said. The convoy was leaving the village of Marwaheen, which abuts the border, when it was attacked. (AP Photo/Nasser Nasser)

source

[Troll]

I agree that it will be interesting if this thing escalates because the US can't actually give any meaningful help to Israel right now. It doesn't have enough soldiers to stabilise Iraq and Afghanistan so if it has to intervene in Israel or Syria or Lebanon, that will make the problems in Iraq and Afghanistan worse. Unless of course the US institutes a draft ... which is what they should have done years ago.

[typoon]

Originally Posted by PacHead

Israel has had worse odds than that in the past. Arab/islamic countries are simply sorelosers and they don't know when they've lost.

No It's just that radical Muslims can't get along with their neighbors.

[typoon]

What really gets me is the "prime minister" of Lebanon. It sounds like he really has no power to take care of Hezbullah himself and throw them out of the country and he wants the U.N. to handle his problem for him. He doesn't want to "condemn" Hezbullah either. WTF!? He needs to as they say "grow a set."

Hezbullah is started it and Israel is going to finish it. The terrorists were too stupid to think that Israle wouldn't punch them back if they hit Israel.

[Sky Captain]

Originally Posted by ironknee

please explain.

i HAVE to be in iraq to know?

First hand experience instead of inaccurate journalistic opinion.

I've been there, have you?

[lookmark]

Anything who sees what going's on right on the Middle-East as a "good thing" is nuts. It's a destabilization of an already unstable region, which is very dangerous thing.

The politics of the thing are complex. Israel seized the opportunity of Hezbollah's brashly provocative kidnapping & rocket attacks, to recover from political humiliation of the Gaza kidnapping, and launch a full-scale air attack on Lebanon to damage and root out Hezbollah as much as they can.

But Israel's actions won't destroy Hezbollah -- far from it. They will kill some of their leaders and destroy some of their weapon reserves, but by bombing Lebanon, destroying their economy and infrastructure, and killing increasing numbers of Lebanese civilians they run the risk of turning Lebanese qnd world opinion against them, and eventually (in the long run) even strengthening Hezbollah. What's Israel's exit strategy here? When can they declare "victory"?

Meanwhile, Iran is delighted to see war erupt (and very likely was deeply instrumental in helping to engineer this latest conflict), to distract attention from the nuclear issue and pump up anti-Israel feeling among the Arab counties at tv coverage from civilian casualties. Bizarrely, in the Arab world it makes Iran and Syria look "strong", while countries that have made peace with Israel and the U.S. -- Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan -- look "weak."

Perhaps the most sickening irony here is that by multiple accounts many Lebanese (esp in the north) are furious at Hezbollah for dragging them back into war with Israel, undoing years of peace and progress. But they have the choice of passively watching Israel destroy their infrastructure or passively watch radical militants decide the fate of their country -- i.e, no choice at all. They're the bloody pawns stuck in the middle of this mess.

[vmarks]

Let me try a thought experiment:

By attacking the Nazis, we will only embolden and create more Nazis! Therefore, we must never fight the Nazis.

There. That's the end of that. It shows that the argument which says we cannot retaliate for fear of creating more of the enemy is not useful.

The Lebanese who know HizbAllah to be their enemy can do something about it- they can root out HizbAllah, disarm them. Or Israel will help them to do so.

The years of instability with no improvement cannot go on.
The stability that has come in the region has only come following warfare (Sinai being given to Egypt, Egypt establishing diplomatic relations with Israel, Jordan making peace)
So this is a means forward, to greater peace.

[Kerrigan]

I just think it's hillarious how Iran has signed a military treaty with Syria in order to allow free movement of arms for the purpose of supplying Hezbollah, and they also signed a treaty aiming at the destruction of the Israeli state, and yet people still think of Iran as a pious country.

This whole situation has shed light on what the real consequences of the Iranian nuclear program are. Iran wants nuclear technology to solidify its power in the Middle East and finally wreak havoc on Israel.

[yakkiebah]

Also Allied forces bombed the Nazi's out of my country. Did we get collectively punished? Did everyone joined the Nazi's all of a sudden? I can assure you that the bombardments back then were a whole lot less accurate then they are today done by Israel.

For those Lebanese who are furious at Hezbollah there is a clear and right choice. Fight and destroy Hezbollah.

[Kevin]

I've been hanging out on #Lebanon on the undernet lately.

Lots of Anti-Hez speak, lots of anti-Jew/Israel speak.

Seems to be a mixture of both.

This is one real gem I dug up.

SuperDJ: jews r dirty we all agree but what hizbollah did made lebanon pay a lot in the wrong time and it wont lead no where

Atleast he knows who to blame. Even if he is a Jew hater.

At the moment they are playing IRC trivia games though.

[Kerrigan]

Has anyone noticed that Israel kills "civilians" and Hezbollah merely kills "people?"

I read one AP or Reuters story where they wrote how Israel had bombed that Hezbollah leader's house, and he managed to escape but his poor "civilian" friends and family were killed

Meanwhile, Hezbollah fires rockets into crowded areas and kills "people".

Heck, in this single AP story they mention that Hezbollah killed 8 "people" in Haifa, and that a while ago they had killed 11 "people" in a bomb blast.

The paragraph right below says that it was in retaliation for Israel killing "civilians"

The two words clearly evoke different emotional responses, and it seems that some in the media are trying to downplay the way that Hezbollah terrorists deliberately kill civilians.

[Troll]

Originally Posted by vmarks

By attacking the Nazis, we will only embolden and create more Nazis! Therefore, we must never fight the Nazis.

Explain to me how Israel's battle against terrorism is similar to the world's battle against Nazism because frankly it seems to me that you're trying to hitch a ride.

[Kerrigan]

Since the collapse of the Ottoman empire, Islamists have been heavily influenced by European ideas like nationalism, genocide, and fascism.

Both groups scapegoat Jews with poisonous anti-Semetic propaganda, both seek absolute truth in the old myths, and both seek to re-establish borders based on some historical grievance, and both target civilian populations.

[Capt Shane]

Originally Posted by Troll

I agree that it will be interesting if this thing escalates because the US can't actually give any meaningful help to Israel right now. It doesn't have enough soldiers to stabilise Iraq and Afghanistan so if it has to intervene in Israel or Syria or Lebanon, that will make the problems in Iraq and Afghanistan worse. Unless of course the US institutes a draft ... which is what they should have done years ago.

I just want to thow out there that we have over a Million troops available for deployment... We choose not to put more troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, for whatever reason, Plus for all you who would like to see US be able to control the situation IRAQ is in one damn nice place for launching attacks into Syria and Iran... It is right in the middle of the middle east.... We have Iran surrounded(Afghanistan, Iraq) and basicaly the same for Syria, (turkey to the north, Jordan to the east, IRAQ!!) Iran and Syria would be the ones to suffer greatly if this thing gets out of control... We could get involved, but why should we?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Troll

Explain to me how Israel's battle against terrorism is similar to the world's battle against Nazism because frankly it seems to me that you're trying to hitch a ride.

It's just not Israel's battle Troll. It seems like the world is now also battling it.

These Islamoterrists aren't just Americas or Israel's problem.

They are the WORLD's problem. Much like the nazis were

[PacHead]

Originally Posted by Troll

Explain to me how Israel's battle against terrorism is similar to the world's battle against Nazism because frankly it seems to me that you're trying to hitch a ride.

Nazis, Islamofascists, it's the same garbage, and they'll both end up in the sewers of history, much to your dislike, apparently.