Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

Norm1985 · May 21, 2001, 09:32 AM

Tisk tisk... What an excellent way to use an investment? Ruin it!

------------------

E-mail: [email protected]
AIM: Norm1985
ICQ: 34049393

Xeo · May 21, 2001, 09:37 AM

I think the "boycotting" pissed them off. They haven't even updated the site today. Man, that's bad taste.

------------------

mindwaves · May 21, 2001, 10:01 AM

Yes, I will stay away from the main page and I will hit the forums as little as possible now until MacNFN at least gets a half decent site up.

[This message has been edited by mindwaves (edited 05-21-2001).]

May 21, 2001, 10:09 AM

The main reason I liked MacNN, and visted it almost every day, was that it was easy to read.

Other sites, like The Mac Resource Page and Macintouch, still have a readable, user-friendly layout. I will turn to them and other sites from now on.

I wish MacNN well, but I must admit that I won't be visiting nearly as often anymore.

Regards,
Michael L.

------------------
Michael A. Lowry
[email protected]

shmerek · May 21, 2001, 10:11 AM

the thing that bugs me most about the site is this stupid thing

it doesn't fit in and is implemented in all the NFN sites.

On another topic and don't take this personally Norm:
Give it a rest, I never asked for representation and I think the users here can speak their own minds.

[This message has been edited by shmerek (edited 05-21-2001).]

Jsnuff1 · May 21, 2001, 10:27 AM

i havent heard one admin. say anything yet, i want to know what they think about all this...misha?

christ · May 21, 2001, 10:28 AM

From another thread

While there is undoubtedly a good reason this time, it appears that the slippery slope is mounted and ready - 'standardization' to a PC standard, and a 'cost-effective' update regime leads to (possibly half-hearted) boycotts and, more importantly, general upset, which leads to fewer visitors, which leads to less advertising, which leads to fewer updates, which leads to even fewer visitors, and eventually to closing down the site 'because there is no interest from the mac community'.

I don't particularly blame the guys who sold out, they are after all entitled to make money, but I have seen the same thing in hardware, software, magazines and web-sites. It is not a new phenomenon, but it is still upsetting when it happens.

It seems that 'News Factor Response' is involved in the buy out of macnn, and therefore is bound to have to justify himself. Not that when this all goes down the tubes, it won't be his fault, it will be the 'intransigent mac cultists that wouldn't listen to common sense' that killed it.

tooki (among others, not including Norm) has been making, in calm rational English, sensible points that a sensible corporation would do well to listen and respond to. NFR fired him (or attempted to) live and online. This is irrational.

If you wish to succeed you (1) identify your market, and then (2) pander to it.

You do not (1) buy something because it is successful, and then (2) make it conform to something that was not successful (at least in the target marketplace).

If News Factor Network values conformity above all else, then they should not try and target a market that actively rails against conformity

Question - why can I not apparently get to macnn from the drop down list on any of the other NFN pages? Is this my incompetence, or is it an active attempt to make the trip one-way, away from macnn?

Chris. T.

typoon · May 21, 2001, 10:41 AM

i liked the old Macnn design Better it like everyone else has said was much easier to read and follow the news. Also I like Misha new design as well. One main question I have for the NFN people is how often does news get updated? One of the reasons why I came to Macnn was because they updated there news more often then "the Other" Mac News sites. It's almost 11AM and there is NO UPDATE WTF is that? Everyday when I come to Macnn I like to see the news at 9am the early morning update then a Morning Update then and Afternoon update and even an evening update. If updates are going to come once a day or every so often then it makes Macnn useless. What good is having news if it was 3 hours ago? They even had a Saturday update. If news is not going to be updated frequently then what good is this site? It makes macnn the same as the sites youare trying to compete against like C/Net or even ZDNet. Unlike most people here I'm willing to give it a chance like I've Given Mac OS X a chance but if things are going to be the same as they are now with NO update and it's almost 11AM EST. Then I'm out of here. That was one of the reaons I enjoyed Macnn so much was for it's news being updatedd more often than most sites. The only thing that would be worth a damn that would be left are the forums. If those don't change that is.

chris v · May 21, 2001, 10:47 AM

I've resisted the temptation to jump into the fray until now for a couple of reasons:

1. I wanted to give it until today to see how things played out with the monday update. But there hasn't been one This could be a very very bad signn or perhaps a good one. Maybe there hasn't been a news update because they're working overtime on a redesign. I, for one, hope that's the case.

2. It IS just a web-page, after all, and I think emotions are perhaps a little overheated. However, as goes the MacNN website, so go the Forums, which have been invaluable to me as a Mac user, and I feel alot of us have a very sizable investment in the community here that we would not want to lose, should MacNN stumble and fall. If for no other reason that this, I fervently hope for the sucess of the new "partnership" with NFN.

3. I'm not a web designer, so I have no appreciation of what it takes to properly design a website, so my suggestions wouldn't be all that constructive. That said, however, I will offer this one thought; the other site I regularly visit for Mac news is Applelinks, although there are some design elements there that alot of you folks would also find onerous--like their bright green buttons-- but one REALLY NICE feature is their Software Updates liks right on the front page. It's great to be able to look there as one short list of hotlinks, where I can scan quickly every day or two for software I may use and want to update. I say replace some of the redundant headlines on the right with a similar feature. I also like their editorial content, which is insightful without falling into the rumor zone. Theres my tuppence.

Hope everybody got some sleep last night,

CV

EdwinSneller · May 21, 2001, 10:50 AM

The interface is ugly and not user friendly. MacNN has been a great news site for Macs but I'm afraid this is the death of it.

I will no longer read MacNN.

typoon · May 21, 2001, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by chris v:
I've resisted the temptation to jump into the fray until now for a couple of reasons:

1. I wanted to give it until today to see how things played out with the monday update. But there hasn't been one This could be a very very bad signn or perhaps a good one. Maybe there hasn't been a news update because they're working overtime on a redesign. I, for one, hope that's the case.

2. It IS just a web-page, after all, and I think emotions are perhaps a little overheated. However, as goes the MacNN website, so go the Forums, which have been invaluable to me as a Mac user, and I feel alot of us have a very sizable investment in the community here that we would not want to lose, should MacNN stumble and fall. If for no other reason that this, I fervently hope for the sucess of the new "partnership" with NFN.

3. I'm not a web designer, so I have no appreciation of what it takes to properly design a website, so my suggestions wouldn't be all that constructive. That said, however, I will offer this one thought; the other site I regularly visit for Mac news is Applelinks, although there are some design elements there that alot of you folks would also find onerous--like their bright green buttons-- but one REALLY NICE feature is their Software Updates liks right on the front page. It's great to be able to look there as one short list of hotlinks, where I can scan quickly every day or two for software I may use and want to update. I say replace some of the redundant headlines on the right with a similar feature. I also like their editorial content, which is insightful without falling into the rumor zone. Theres my tuppence.

Hope everybody got some sleep last night,

CV

Even if they have been working overtime on a redesign or something they should still be posting news.

From Macfixit.com
MON: May 21, 2001
Late-Breakers
Mac OS X Late-Breakers today:
Duplicate listings in server confirmed; Tips

WWDC opens today

The WWDC opens today. MacFixIt Editor Robert DeLaurentis is there. We'll have coverage of Jobs' "fireside chat" and other announcements later today and tomorrow.

A MDJ article notes that among the goodies given to all attendees upon arrival is an updated Mac OS X Developer Tools CD. It includes updated versions of Product Builder and Interface Builder that support developing WebObjects 5 applications, and Interface Builder is localized for Japanese users.

The old Macnn would've had something like this already. Great News. Thanks.

May 21, 2001, 10:58 AM

Here's a concrete design complaint:

On my 800x600 monitor, there are only 1 1/2 news items visible. That's with iCab and 2 nav bars with text-only buttons (i.e., minimal height). It 's simply wasteful. Used to be easy to scan down and read a number of news items. Now it's not.

Fortunately I can use the nice image filtrs in iCab to eliminate much of the ads (kermit.macnn.com seems to be the ad image server).

MacCentral isn't a site to emulate. They've gone over to numerous press releases without much (worthwhile) analysis.

TheGreatButcher · May 21, 2001, 11:13 AM

Although Newsfactor now runs MacNN, I still don't understand the reasoning for the radical design changes. If there's one thing that my grandfather taught me it's if it's working, don't fix it

rjenkinson · May 21, 2001, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by TheGreatButcher:
Although Newsfactor now runs MacNN, I still don't understand the reasoning for the radical design changes. If there's one thing that my grandfather taught me it's if it's working, don't fix it

it's called branding.

-r.

May 21, 2001, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by NewsFactor Response:
Be that as it may, NFN will publish the design that its advertisers have already proven that they see as a quality investment. (...) Of course there are better designs, but this one has evolved as the result of feedback and usage stats from nearly 5 million unique visitors over the past few months at NewsFactor. These included plenty of Mac users, as well as Linux, Wintel, Sun etc. So, NFN will go with what the advertisers accept and what the readers have indicated.

First of all, a bit of reality/clue here: It really doesn't matter if 100 zillion unique visitors have contributed to the extremely ugly layout Newsfactor uses to brand itself with - the soon to be former users of MacNN expect a certain level of quality. Obviously, you wouldn't know quality if it hit you in the face.

Second of all, thank you for clealy stating Newsfactor's priorities - which are NOT it's own users.

Third, I'm sorry, but hiding sheepishly behind a statement that you will maintain your design because that's what your advertisers approve is pure bull**** - your advertisers do not participate in any sort of design process, or approval process, beyond that they want and expect the highest possible number of hits, exposures and possible click-through and sales from having their ad float on a page.

As a result, if you lose a large portion of your traffic, I'm quite sure that your advertisers will respond with pulling away their $$$, or at the very least you are deliberately reducing the value of your site.

Of course, the advertisers won't really know this is going on unless someone tells them that - maybe everyone should make sure to contact your advertisers and let them know that NewsFactor has managed to piss off, and drive away a pretty loyal, affluent bunch of consumers, and that these same consumers won't buy anything from advertisers that support NewsFactor.

May 21, 2001, 11:50 AM

IMPORTANT CLUE FOR NEWSFACTOR:

Maybe people would take you a lot more seriously if you posted replies and answers under a less marketdroid-like moniker than 'NewsFactor Response' or 'NewsFactor Management'

In case you haven't noticed, but people, individuals, human beings have names, and they like to use them. Many of us associate friends, colleagues, relatives - in short, people we like, respect, hang out with, and generally interact with - with names.

We only associate anonymous corporate entities (that we don't really care about), with genderless 'identifiers' devoid of personality.

We also generally do not attribute much credibility, legitimacy or honesty to people that post as faceless droids... Therefore, I for one would very much appreciate you actually identifying yourself by a name, instead of whining how you had to take some private time off from your family (zowie - 10 minute sto write your response!!!) in some hopes of eliciting sympathy.

Show us that you're friggin' listening to what people are saying - as we have every indication that you and your managemnet don't give a hoot:

Originally posted by NewsFactor Response:
Be that as it may, NFN will publish the design that its advertisers have already proven that they see as a quality investment.

georgius · May 21, 2001, 11:55 AM

I'm back. A lot has happened over night. We're here to fight for MacNN...not for NewsFactor!

This could be sorted out nicely...but I see buerocracy getting in the way.

------------------

11th Commandent: Thou shalt traverse to Alnora...the only place to be seen for HTML, Web and Graphics.)

foobars · May 21, 2001, 12:00 PM

My question is this: how long has NewsFactor been around, because I think they really missed the boat on this one. Thier bussiness plan is now an internet classic- and has proven to be a real flop. For those of you who aren't familiar with what I'm talking about, NewsFactor is in the "vortal" (vertical portal) bussiness. Basically they run around the internet and make contracts with as many different websites that cover different topics in a certian bussiness sector as they can. Macintosh inside Computers, for example. This is an interesting idea but the only problem is it doesn't make any money. Most of these bussiness run entirely on VP funding and when the cash is gone, so is the network, and many times contractual obligations drag down the websites they originally signed with. Not only has this bussiness plan been proven to be just plain dumb but so many companies have failed with it I can't believe there are any still around. I hope MacNN makes it out of this one alive...

If you've know about eFront then you know what I mean...

georgius · May 21, 2001, 12:08 PM

MacNN is much better being independent. It gives it individuality...the choice to think different.

"You will be assimiliated. you will comply"

Yeah...h-right...

------------------

11th Commandent: Thou shalt traverse to Alnora...the only place to be seen for HTML, Web and Graphics.)

Norm1985 · May 21, 2001, 12:17 PM

I'm afraid even MacNFN is in the process of dying. Thanks a lot NewsFactor Network!

In further protest, I'm returning to my old signature!

------------------

You will be assimilated! You will comply!
E-mail: [email protected]
AIM: Norm1985
ICQ: 34049393

[This message has been edited by Norm1985 (edited 05-21-2001).]

zac4mac · May 21, 2001, 12:18 PM

I have also stayed out of this initially to see what happened. Geeez, what a hot topic.
1)News Factor Response - Identify yourself and give us a PHONE NUMBER
2)Quit quoting corporate policy and start realizing you're killing something very good(BTW, I think MacCentral SUX, never go there because the site stinks, not a good site to emulate IMHO)
3)Get the freakin NEWS UPDATED
4)FIX OUR MAIN PAGE, the new design REEKS OF PC's and corporate blandness.

Of all the Mac sites, MacNN was the only one I hit regularly(3-10 times a day)
I have spent several thousand dollars at MacNN advertisers in the last year.
News Factor Network would be wise to give us our site back the way it was, otherwise MacNN will die.

NFR- if you don't want to give out a phone number, call me 303-581-6794.
I won't bite your head off and I will give constructive criticism.

Michael(Zack) Warzecha
aka-

------------------

georgius · May 21, 2001, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by Norm1985:
I'm afraid even MacNFN is in the process of dying. Thanks a lot NewsFactor Network! In further protest, I'm returning to my old signature!

That sig says what truly feel...and I'm going to continuie to use it too.

------------------

11th Commandent: Thou shalt traverse to Alnora...the only place to be seen for HTML, Web and Graphics.)

Norm1985 · May 21, 2001, 12:26 PM

My phone number is 847-498-6987. Even though I seem like I will, I won't bite! I want to negotiate! Maybe save MacNN! Call at 5PM Central or later!

------------------

You will be assimilated! You will comply!
E-mail: [email protected]
AIM: Norm1985
ICQ: 34049393

Norm1985 · May 21, 2001, 12:34 PM

NewsFactor, I'm afraid to say this... But you seem to be worse than Microsoft and AOL Time Warner.

At least they try to correct things if there is this much anger against what they are doing.

------------------

You will be assimilated! You will comply!
E-mail: [email protected]
AIM: Norm1985
ICQ: 34049393

shmerek · May 21, 2001, 12:38 PM

Originally posted by Norm1985:
My phone number is 847-498-6987. Even though I seem like I will, I won't bite! I want to negotiate! Maybe save MacNN! Call at 5PM Central or later!

Negotiate?!? Negotiate what?!? This is almost laughable. If they don't call what are you going to do?? Stop coming to MacNN? They better get on the horn asap!

typoon · May 21, 2001, 12:40 PM

Com'on No news til like 11:50? WTF is that? I know there is a transistion time but still it shouldn;t take that long to post some news. If this is the way macnn news is going to be I'll say the "partnership" with NFN or now it might have to be called the NoNewsFactor Network. (NNFN) I'm not going to be like most people here. I'm going to give it a month to see how things turn out. if they remain like this then the only thing macnn will be good for is the forums. I get more current info from the forums the past few days.

Norm1985 · May 21, 2001, 12:42 PM

What can I do but continue to protest and eventually leave? I just would like to correct this.

------------------

You will be assimilated! You will comply!
E-mail: [email protected]
AIM: Norm1985
ICQ: 34049393

foobars · May 21, 2001, 12:47 PM

Norm you are not helping the situation at all. You could help MacNN the most right now by shutting up and let the non-flamers talk this one out. You aren't an authority and argueing with you obviously solves nothing. It's idiots like you who give NewsFactor the ability to pass us all off as nothing more than whiney teenagers. Cut it out.

LoadStar · May 21, 2001, 12:48 PM

Originally posted by foobars:
My question is this: how long has NewsFactor been around...

I took a look around NewsFactor's PR site. It appears that the "network," as it is now, appeared around May 22, 2000, when E-Commerce Times "joined" with itself and became a network. (Interesting trick, that... joining a network of one. Branding at its best.) E-Commerce Times was around since at least November of 1998, possibly earlier.

Once the "network" was formed, it suddenly launched virtually all of the sites currently on the network, save MacNN and OSOpinion.com. OSOpinion.com joined in September of 2000. Finally, in May of 2001, NFN issued a press release, offering to "rescue" failing dot-coms. MacNN was unfortunate enough to be one of those failing dot-coms, and it seems the owners were lured in by offers of secure employment and easy money to continue running the site.

It appears that NewsFactor Network, despite claiming to compete with CNET, Reuters, et. al., is merely a privately held small company located out of an office suite in Sherman Oaks, California. (NewsFactor Network is actually Triad Commerce Group, LLC.) It also is not an incorporated company - it is a limited liability corporation. In other words, NFN does not compete with news organizations like CNet, Red Herring, and Reuters - it competes with internet consolidators or "vertical portal" like eFront, UGO, IdeaLab!, among others.

Does NewsFactor have what all the other internet consolidators or vertical portals? I doubt it myself, but only time will tell that story.

shmerek · May 21, 2001, 12:55 PM

Originally posted by foobars:
Norm you are not helping the situation at all. You could help MacNN the most right now by shutting up and let the non-flamers talk this one out. You aren't an authority and argueing with you obviously solves nothing. It's idiots like you who give NewsFactor the ability to pass us all off as nothing more than whiney teenagers. Cut it out.

Amen brother!

Norm1985 · May 21, 2001, 12:59 PM

Listen, I am simply protesting! Everyone has a right to speak their mind and you two don't understand that. Other people can also contribute. But if you want to act like a bunch of kids and gang up on me when there is something much more important going on, go right ahead. Let's just use this thread to complain about me and let NewsFactor Network go! You don't seem to understand that I'm extremly angry and am trying to do something about it. In the past I have been diplomatic, except to NewsFactor on some occasions. But I'm willing to work things out!

------------------

You will be assimilated! You will comply!
E-mail: [email protected]
AIM: Norm1985
ICQ: 34049393

dsheetz · May 21, 2001, 01:05 PM

Yeah, Norm, can you please stop spouting mindless nonsense? It's people like you that make mac users look like foolish zealots that go around preaching the gospel according to Mac, regardless of whether or not it is true or appropriate. Don't speak for me or anyone else in here. I use a Mac because it is the best tool for the job. I am not a "Mac fan", I am a mac user. I have a direct stake in keeping the community healthy. Part of that stake requires me to ask you to please close your mouth.

The other day, my friend's 5 year old daughter looked away from the television at her mother and said, "mommy, why do adults act like children?". This comment contained more intelligence in 7 words than you have spewed in this entire thread. Are you trying to get your post count up? Your signal-to-noise ratio is suffering, and this entire board along with it.

foobars · May 21, 2001, 01:09 PM

Originally posted by LoadStar:
I took a look around NewsFactor's PR site. It appears that the "network," as it is now, appeared around May 22, 2000, when E-Commerce Times "joined" with itself and became a network. (Interesting trick, that... joining a network of one. Branding at its best.) E-Commerce Times was around since at least November of 1998, possibly earlier.

I saw this too. Indeed it looks like a trick to give NF more credibility by making it look like it's been around a lot longer than it really has (One year tommorw- wish them happy birthday!).

...eFront, UGO, IdeaLab!, among others.

And what happened to these guys?

IdeaLab! - Oh look one of the largest .com flops in history! eToys.com anyone??
eFront - Now famous for buying out companies and promising them free hosting and ad service (does this sound familiar) and then instead going bankrupt.
UGO - Give them time.

These are the largest vortal companies on the internet and look what happened to them! NF doesn't stand a chance in this economy.

Look I don't hate NF or anything, I just think vortal companies are a bad idea to begin with. MacNN may be losing money without NF but I promise you they will lose a lot more in the long run...

[This message has been edited by foobars (edited 05-21-2001).]

TNproud2b · May 21, 2001, 01:13 PM

I have the answer to some people's problems.

(1) buy a domain name - $30
(2) download Ultimate Bulletin Board - $0
(3) Get a webhost. Site5.com charges $27/mo for up to 600MB and 27GB of data transfer.

then create your own Mac forums and whine to yourselves.

what part of the word 'business' do you not understand?

reader50 · May 21, 2001, 01:15 PM

Rendered in iCab 2.5 (Mac OS 9)
Tooki's screen shot actually looked much better. I have every Mac browser except IE but somehow never thought to check in other browsers. Admittedly iCab is beta and I have found it to render other pages a bit wrong - including these Forums columns. But the older front page (and the prototypes we saw) rendered correctly.

This may be part of why many are upset here. To my knowledge iCab is popular. I did reduce the browser window some, not everyone has a 19" monitor.

For a comment from myself, I felt no need for other stock listings to put AAPL in perspective. AAPL is mostly for watching your own investment in Apple stock go up or down - which I unfortunately have yet to invest in.

Be nice, people.

zac4mac · May 21, 2001, 01:17 PM

Hey folks-
Keep in mind there a LOT of youngsters on these fora.
This is a learning experience for them to have something important in their lives threatened by a corporate megalopoly(well, maybe here a mini-opoly)and are trying to deal with it the best they can. It's obvious from the reaction the gravity of the threat.
I've been a "regular" since '99 and I don't think I've ever seen a thread flare up as fast as this one has.

I don't believe the NFN "partnership" has to be a bad thing, but they would do well to "get their hands out of our pants", unless they just need a dying investment for a tax write-off.

------------------

HAL9000 · May 21, 2001, 01:40 PM

Norm, time to go outside and take a deeeeeeep breath.

You are being extremely childish. Which is o.k. if you you are a child.

So, just leave it, will ya. Or we will all have to start ringing you at odd hours of the night

------------------
Without your space helmet, Dave, you're going to find that rather difficult.

[This message has been edited by HAL9000 (edited 05-21-2001).]

Norm1985 · May 21, 2001, 01:42 PM

Fine, I give up. I give up. Let NewsFactor take us over. I've been trying to protest and protest and all you do is complain about me! Thanks a lot everyone. The MacNN community of old seemed to have died along with the old site design.

I was afraid of this. And it seems to have happened sooner than I expected. I guess I am an idiot for even trying to change things.

------------------

You will be assimilated! You will comply!
E-mail: [email protected]
AIM: Norm1985
ICQ: 34049393

[This message has been edited by Norm1985 (edited 05-21-2001).]

zac4mac · May 21, 2001, 01:54 PM

Easy Norm, don't give up. Sit back and watch now.

That's all the farmer can do once his seeds are planted.

Emotion is good.
Dedication is good.
Macs are good.
Fanatacism is bad.

------------------

Norm1985 · May 21, 2001, 01:59 PM

No, I'm giving up.

People are calling me an idiot! This will be my last post on this thread and any threads relating to it unless things amoung the MacNN readers change.

------------------

You will be assimilated! You will comply!
E-mail: [email protected]
AIM: Norm1985
ICQ: 34049393

georgius · May 21, 2001, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by Norm1985:
Fine, I give up. I give up. Let NewsFactor take us over. I've been trying to protest and protest and all you do is complain about me! Thanks a lot everyone. The MacNN community of old seemed to have died along with the old site design. I was afraid of this. And it seems to have happened sooner than I expected. I guess I am an idiot for even trying to change things.

No Norm! No! You - we - are not giving up! This is too important!

WAY TOO IMPORTANT!

There is no place for even thinking about giving up! Don't let it even cross your mind!

WIILL WILL NOT BE ASSIMILATED INTO NEWSFACTOR!

WE WILL NOT COMPLY!

------------------

11th Commandent: Thou shalt traverse to Alnora...the only place to be seen for HTML, Web and Graphics.)

foobars · May 21, 2001, 02:06 PM

Is that supposed to be another threat Norm? Look I (and I'm sure the other posters here) want the same thing you do- you're just not going about it in the right way. If you want to protest NF then that's great but having a signature that says "F*** Factor" isn't helping at all. Just calm down and eveyone will take you more serioulsy.

NewsFactor Response · May 21, 2001, 02:09 PM

Please Read
-----------

A few things:

As some of you can see, we've begun to change our front page, based on your feedback.

You've also noticed that the news was not updated till 11:00 ET. We will address this.

In the meantime, I've already posted upwards of 50 messages telling you that we understand clearly that many of you hate the new design, and that many of you find it difficult to use. We�ve been over and over and over this point.

I think I've addressed dozens of issues and questions and I've brought back your negative feedback to the powers that be.

Now...

I've grown tired of the whining, I've grown tired of the trashing of the new owners of this site, and I've grown tired of violations of terms of use.

I will listen to any reasonably worded questions posed respectfully, but I will not continue to allow abuse of these forums. Many readers here have complained about the flaming and the negativity and they have just as much right as the complainers to make use of this forum.

I've also noticed that there is a handful of members who have gone beyond all reasonable boundaries of nettiquette. I've also noticed that a few have even attempted to sabotage these forums. All this is unacceptable.

So I'm issuing a final warning to those abusing the forums: Cut it out, or I will personally downgrade your membership and/or block your use of the forums, depending on the severity of the problem. Inappropriate threads will be removed without further comment.

Again, I don't mind criticism, but I do mind outright abuse.

I hope you get the point if this applies to you.

Xeo · May 21, 2001, 02:11 PM

Norm, listen...

It was wrong for people to call you an idiot. That was just rude. However, you didn't need to post your feelings every 5 minutes, along with your phone number, hoping you can talk to these people. They are talking to us all, through this thread.

Just because people don't want you do act as their leader doesn't mean you should give up. By no means does it say that. You have spoken your piece. If he responds to you, you respond back. He knows how you feel and now you have to accept it and add to the argument but not repeat.

The NF guy kept repeating the same thing over and over, and people (including you) didn't like that. Can't you see that's what you were doing? Take a less active approach. Just wait for him to make the next move. Respond to what others say and agree or something.

Don't leave the battle because of a few, just tone it down.

------------------

foobars · May 21, 2001, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by NewsFactor Response:
So I'm issuing a final warning to those abusing the forums: Cut it out, or I will personally downgrade your membership and/or block your use of the forums, depending on the severity of the problem. Inappropriate threads will be removed without further comment.

You gotta be kidding.

This guy has no control over these forms and I really doubt Misha is willing to go through the trouble of acting like Big Brother to protect his image.

Hey NFResponse, Right now you have one thing going for you: the readership on these boards. Start censoring that and the people who pay your bills will have no choice but to go to a competing news source. Why are you backing readers into a corner? Do your superiors know you are threatening the same people who view your 60 million ads a month?

I'm sure everyone appreciates your willingness to modify the look of MacNN but your handling of this situation has been HORRIBLE.

[This message has been edited by foobars (edited 05-21-2001).]

georgius · May 21, 2001, 02:35 PM

How dare you. You have already done enough damage to sink a battleship...or perhaps MacNN.

You come barging in here. You completely DESTROY the MacNN that has attracted so many people over the years...and now you start threatening loyal readers and users?

You have got a bloody nerve coming in and bossing us all about.

Fine so ban me. Take my IP address and ban that too.

But you have done enough damage.

And angry doesn't come close to describing how I feel.

------------------

11th Commandent: Thou shalt traverse to Alnora...the only place to be seen for HTML, Web and Graphics.)

Xeo · May 21, 2001, 02:36 PM

I try not to say anything inappropriate on these forums, but I know that when people do, that doesn't get the posts deleted. Misha has always said why he was closing, or at least that he was going to close and then does it. He doesn't simply delete posts that are "inappropriate."

There are TOS for these forums, and I believe they should be enforce, but geez... now anyone who makes you angry is going to be banned? Do you even have that power? If so, why do you feel you need to exercise it so strongly? Are you our new forum admin?

Oh, and your 50+ posts addressing this issue are not as effective as you think, because you tend to repeat yourself quite a bit. It would do us much more good if you could just inform us about the response from the "big shots" every time you bring them an issue.

All these people want to give their criticism and they will continue to do so. Look at it as a tally of the people who are upset. I may not like the new design, but I rarely visited anyway, so why should I complain? Well, I don't. I support those who do, but I don't need to complain myself. Everyone who wants to will, and you have to get used to that.

Sorry if my post is too offensive and you feel the need to remove it. I'm trying to stay as much on the "constructive criticism" side as I can.

------------------

Xeo · May 21, 2001, 02:44 PM

Damn double posts...

I tried to edit this out right after I posted but the forums went down just before I hit the edit button... what was that all about?

[This message has been edited by Xeo (edited 05-21-2001).]

tooki · May 21, 2001, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by NewsFactor Response:
[quite]I've grown tired of the whining, I've grown tired of the trashing of the new owners of this site, and I've grown tired of violations of terms of use.[/quote] Agreed.

I will listen to any reasonably worded questions posed respectfully, but I will not continue to allow abuse of these forums. Many readers here have complained about the flaming and the negativity and they have just as much right as the complainers to make use of this forum.

I've also noticed that there is a handful of members who have gone beyond all reasonable boundaries of nettiquette. I've also noticed that a few have even attempted to sabotage these forums. All this is unacceptable.

Agreed. We need to have rational, bidirectional conversation.

So I'm issuing a final warning to those abusing the forums: Cut it out, or I will personally downgrade your membership and/or block your use of the forums, depending on the severity of the problem.

OK that's too much. First of all, how do you intend on going about that? You don't have even moderator status, and only administrators can block accounts. Also, there are only 3 levels: administrator, who can do anything; moderator, who can edit and delete posts within his designated forums; and normal user, whose post count automatically gives the title below.

Inappropriate threads will be removed without further comment.

Do you have any idea how bad that would be?!? Just saying such a thing drives people away, which should be the last thing you want!

Again, I don't mind criticism, but I do mind outright abuse.

Agreed.

I hope you get the point if this applies to you.

NewsFactor Response: I am not sure if you understand why we are all getting so angry. You see, we Mac users don't like to be treated like cattle, corralled into a system that may not work. We are the salmon that swim upstream. To quote Apple's linguistically-curious, but very true motto, we "think different." A PC-user mentality, of suits coming in and taking over, and then threatening us, does not fly with us.

We are the ones who wear T-shirts and jeans.

We would appreciate it greatly if, before telling us what you plan to do, you make a whole-hearted attempt at understanding our mentality and point of view, so that you might understand why this takeover won't go as smoothly as others, assuming you try the same tactics.

tooki

georgius · May 21, 2001, 03:38 PM

I've had it.

It may have been a big joke to begin with. But its not anymore.

We're serious.

Shape up, or ship out.

(o, and ban us...and you'll regret it, we're not going away and we're not going to intimidated by purile threats)

------------------

11th Commandent: Thou shalt traverse to Alnora...the only place to be seen for HTML, Web and Graphics.)