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TheTraveller · Mar 14, 2006, 05:43 AM

Well, my Intel Mac Mini Core Duo finally arrived...so how's it going, you want to know?

First thing: the airport reception sucked. I was aghast. I'd read the horror stories over on the Apple Support Forums but I figured that was probably just the first batch. Well, not sure what batch I'm in, but my airport reception was just a dot at the bottom o' the meter - whereas my PowerBook sitting right next to my Mini Mac was maxed out. Then I remembered reading how I might want to try turning my Mini on its side - and I did that, and voila! Now it, too, has all the airport bars lit up. I'd rather have it lying flat, but oh well.

However, when I went to copy files off my PowerBook to my Mini via airport - woah. The Finder bogged down, and the whole machine bogged down to the point of barely being useable. Not sure what that's all about, but it sure sucked. So I dragged out an ethernet cable and copied my files that way. It's 100 Mbps ethernet, and I have airport extreme so it should have been only half as slow - but it was more like 100 times as fast via the cable.

Aside from that, it works great. I have 2 gigs in it, and right now I'm running like 22 applications and it's nice and snappy, very fluid. If y'all want me to test anything in particular - hopefully just standard Apple apps, freeware & shareware that I can download - I'm happy to try. Otherwise, I'll just report in my findings as they come up.

Cheers!

WOPR · Mar 14, 2006, 06:02 AM

Why aren't you returning it? - it's faulty.

TheTraveller · Mar 14, 2006, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by WOPR

Why aren't you returning it? - it's faulty.

I'm sure I will end up returning it for a replacement unit. But I'd rather not have to return it two or three times like some folks are doing, so I'll wait for things to settle down a bit and THEN return it.

In the meanwhile, it works well enough and I'm having fun playing with it.

Tuoder · Mar 14, 2006, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by TheTraveller

However, when I went to copy files off my PowerBook to my Mini via airport - woah. The Finder bogged down, and the whole machine bogged down to the point of barely being useable. Not sure what that's all about, but it sure sucked. So I dragged out an ethernet cable and copied my files that way. It's 100 Mbps ethernet, and I have airport extreme so it should have been only half as slow - but it was more like 100 times as fast via the cable.

802.11g never works at 54Mbps (even if you have perfect reception). There is alot of overhead in wireless connections. This is not to say that 802.3 doesn't have any, either, but it is less. There has been some debate as how to rate the speed of a wireless standard. Some questioned if it was accurate to measure throughput including overhead. I think that it is not.

TheTraveller · Mar 14, 2006, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Tuoder

802.11g never works at 54Mbps (even if you have perfect reception).

I'm sure it doesn't. Don't know what real througput to expect out of a wireless connection. However, I don't expect that copying a couple of gigs of data over the wireless connection will cause the whole machine to bog down and become unresponsive.

I'm thinking that this is a software issue, by the way, and not a defect in the unit. Anyone else experience this with other Intel Mini Macs, or any Intel (or even PPC!) macs running 10.4.5?

stuffedmonkey · Mar 14, 2006, 02:40 PM

Sweet. There are a few things I would really like to know:

How quiet is it? I'm an admitted noiseophobe... If there is any audible noise is it high pitched or low?

How is the scrolling performance in things like Firefox/Safari or word documents?

What is your overall take on the speed of the system?

Thanks in advance for any info. I'm trying to decide what I should buy...

TheTraveller · Mar 14, 2006, 03:27 PM

Originally Posted by stuffedmonkey

Sweet. There are a few things I would really like to know:

How quiet is it? I'm an admitted noiseophobe... If there is any audible noise is it high pitched or low?

How is the scrolling performance in things like Firefox/Safari or word documents?

What is your overall take on the speed of the system?

Thanks in advance for any info. I'm trying to decide what I should buy...

It's quiet. There is a fan on it that runs constantly, but it's very quiet. The LaCie 250 GB hard disk sitting right next to it is much, much louder. As for the pitch - hmm, kind of a mediium pitch! Neither high nor low - a small, quiet buzz/humm. Not noxious to my ears.

Scrolling in firefox, safari, and anything else is very, very fast. Much faster than I've ever experienced on a Mac OS X machine. I'm sure there'a a Quad G5 that's just as fast out there somewhere, but I haven't played on one of those. Window resizing too is likewise very snappy - as fast as Windows XP, pretty much.

The coolest thing is this damn Mighty Mouse. Got one of those, too. With that little scroll ball I just zoom and fly around all my windows, it's crazy.

My overall take of the system - it's just about 24 hours that I've had it - is that it's great, except for the aforementioned airport issues.

Dog Like Nature · Mar 14, 2006, 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by TheTraveller

Scrolling in firefox, safari, and anything else is very, very fast.

Are you still using the PPC version of FireFox? Grab an intel build of Deer Park, and then you'll really see fast!

Edit: Of course, Camino is universal, and more Aqua-friendly!

Jon1976 · Mar 14, 2006, 06:15 PM

I just got the Mac Mini with the Intel Duo chip. When I got it home it was nice and quiet. I then had the menoy upgraded to 2 gigs and ever since the fan is alway going and sometimes very loud.

TheTraveller · Mar 14, 2006, 06:27 PM

Originally Posted by Dog Like Nature

Are you still using the PPC version of FireFox? Grab an intel build of Deer Park, and then you'll really see fast!

Edit: Of course, Camino is universal, and more Aqua-friendly!

Yeah, I'm using the Intel build of FireFox - and actually I've switched to Camino because as of this moment it seems snappier for some reason. It turns out that almost everything I use regularly has Intel versions already. I do use Photoshop and InDesign and such, but only on occasion and they work well enough for me. So does Dreamweaver 8 which I use more often.

But really, it's beyond snappy. It's damn fast. Maybe that'll be the new mantra about Mac machines: not, "is it snappy?" but "How damn fast is it?"

TheTraveller · Mar 14, 2006, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Jon1976

I just got the Mac Mini with the Intel Duo chip. When I got it home it was nice and quiet. I then had the menoy upgraded to 2 gigs and ever since the fan is alway going and sometimes very loud.

I got mine with Apple's RAM in it. After I got the el-cheapo RAM (and I don't know that you did for your Mini) for my PowerBook and having suffered through all the freezes and KP's and applications quitting, I said awww to heck with it and got it stock from Apple. And it's whisper quiet. And did I mention I have 22 apps open?

mduell · Mar 14, 2006, 07:33 PM

802.11g "54Mbps" isn't half as fast as 100BT ethernet, even in the ideal case... Getting more than ~3MBps over 802.11g requires some non-standard changes, while 100BT can easily hit 10MBps with poor quality equipment.

TheTraveller · Mar 15, 2006, 01:43 AM

Originally Posted by mduell

802.11g "54Mbps" isn't half as fast as 100BT ethernet, even in the ideal case... Getting more than ~3MBps over 802.11g requires some non-standard changes, while 100BT can easily hit 10MBps with poor quality equipment.

Well there ya go. Still not sure why it chokes up my whole machine like that when I use it to copy files, though.

In other news, I have turned my Mini Mac back the correct way, but moved it a couple of feet closer to the hub (it's still a good 30 feet away) and on the other side of my flat panel/hard disk - and now it reports getting full signal strength...so I may not be returning it after all. Yay!

JKT · Mar 15, 2006, 08:58 AM

Possibly something to do with Spotlight indexing - 2GB is a lot of indexing. However, that doesn't explain why transferring over Airport suffered the problem whereas the cable connection didn't... maybe a difference in the way the data is cached and written between the two?

TheTraveller · Mar 15, 2006, 09:04 PM

Just a little update: everything is going great with my Mini. The only time it gets sluggish is when I am switching between Rosetta (PowerPC) applications rapidly. Not sure why that is, but when I do, it sometimes hesitates a bit - sometimes as long as a few seconds. Other than that, though, this little Mini is really a screamer, compared to my G4 PowerBook.

GTKpower · Mar 24, 2006, 07:57 AM

It's been a while since your last update, traveller.

So how are tihngs going? You've probably had time to really put the mini to the test. How's that GMA950 gpu performing? I'm very close to getting a core duo mini w/maxed out RAM.

Cheers

MacOS-Fan · Mar 24, 2006, 10:43 PM

Get one! I don't think that you'll regret it.

TheTraveller · Mar 25, 2006, 04:33 AM

Originally Posted by GTKpower

It's been a while since your last update, traveller.

So how are tihngs going? You've probably had time to really put the mini to the test. How's that GMA950 gpu performing? I'm very close to getting a core duo mini w/maxed out RAM.

Cheers

It's going pretty well, thanks for asking! If I have a jillion apps running and if enough of them are PowerPC apps, it does bog down a tad once in a while, but it's nothing serious. It does a great job of multi-tasking for the most part. As for the graphics, well - it delivers the best performance of any Mac I've used in terms of scrolling and window resizing, video playback is excellent. I don't play any games, so I can't speak to that. I'm very happy with it!

GTKpower · Mar 25, 2006, 09:07 AM

Excellent! Your Mini, in fact, in terms of performance is nearly identical to the other current Intel-based non-notebook Macs. The one exception is the integrated video/graphics of the GMA950 chipset. And that won't really bother you until you decide to play 3D games.

In fact, after doing some serious research, you were smart to get the Mini. Intel Duo Cores are *not* 64-bit archtectures. And 64-bit systems from Intel (for Apple) are just over the horizon. No point in investing too much right now. But you have to admit, Duo Core technology is pretty impressive. It's a sweet taste of what's to come. So enjoy your Mini - I know I will.

Maflynn · Mar 25, 2006, 11:35 AM

Glad to see things are going well. I'm on the fence on buying one. It won't replace my PM but it would be a welcome addition.

stuffedmonkey · Mar 26, 2006, 01:20 PM

Traveler:

Would you be so kind as to benchmark the sucker with xbench (www.xbench.com) and post the results here?

Thanks again for the info so far!

madflava54 · Mar 26, 2006, 02:07 PM

I am looking at buying a new mac relatively soon, but i'm undecided as to whether to get a mini (as i already have an extra tft), or go whole hog and get one of the imacs. I'm not exactly flush, so econamising would be smart... although i don't want to regret not coughing up the extra £300 for a better machine.

What do you guys think? does the mini really come close to the imac for performance?

Many thanks in advance

MacOS-Fan · Mar 26, 2006, 03:20 PM

It depends on what you consider "close". I think that the Mini (CoreDuo) is very close in most stats to the iMac. The iMacs have a faster internal HD than the Mini and are definitely better with 3D intensive games. Neither of which are that important to me. They are both great machines and I think that you would be happy with either. If you are worried about the Mini's performance, DON'T. It is a very solid and fast machine. Unless you are a hardcore gamer, I think that you would be more than impressed with the Mini.

G5man · Mar 26, 2006, 03:42 PM

Would it be the airport card that is faulty in the Rev A's? Or is it something else? That is one of the things Apple is going to want to correct come Rev B.

TheTraveller · Mar 27, 2006, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by stuffedmonkey

Traveler:

Would you be so kind as to benchmark the sucker with xbench (www.xbench.com) and post the results here?

Thanks again for the info so far!

My pleasure. My MacMini got spanked by a 2.0 G5 DP which XBench compared it to, but that's not terribly surprising.

Results 49.97
System Info
Xbench Version 1.2
System Version 10.4.5 (8H1619)
Physical RAM 2048 MB
Model Macmini1,1
Drive Type ST98823AS
CPU Test 64.34
GCD Loop 216.43 11.41 Mops/sec
Floating Point Basic 75.74 1.80 Gflop/sec
vecLib FFT 37.48 1.24 Gflop/sec
Floating Point Library 56.61 9.86 Mops/sec
Thread Test 165.68
Computation 150.12 3.04 Mops/sec, 4 threads
Lock Contention 184.83 7.95 Mlocks/sec, 4 threads
Memory Test 98.74
System 98.31
Allocate 101.61 373.16 Kalloc/sec
Fill 94.86 4612.29 MB/sec
Copy 98.70 2038.66 MB/sec
Stream 99.18
Copy 83.22 1718.96 MB/sec
Scale 81.30 1679.72 MB/sec
Add 126.06 2685.29 MB/sec
Triad 123.71 2646.53 MB/sec
Quartz Graphics Test 58.05
Line 58.07 3.87 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
Rectangle 50.88 15.19 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
Circle 52.85 4.31 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
Bezier 76.01 1.92 Kbeziers/sec [50% alpha]
Text 58.18 3.64 Kchars/sec
OpenGL Graphics Test 184.31
Spinning Squares 184.31 233.81 frames/sec
User Interface Test 20.63
Elements 20.63 94.70 refresh/sec
Disk Test 26.83
Sequential 46.19
Uncached Write 44.22 27.15 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 44.83 25.36 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 46.52 13.62 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 49.54 24.90 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 18.91
Uncached Write 6.10 0.65 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 51.23 16.40 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 66.38 0.47 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 76.52 14.20 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Don't really know what it all means, but I can tell you that using this machine is a pleasure.

TheTraveller · Mar 27, 2006, 01:23 AM

Originally Posted by G5man

Would it be the airport card that is faulty in the Rev A's? Or is it something else? That is one of the things Apple is going to want to correct come Rev B.

Yeah my airport reception now seems fine, don't know why it wasn't working so hot when I first used it. Now it's fine.

Tuoder · Mar 27, 2006, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by TheTraveller

My pleasure. My MacMini got spanked by a 2.0 G5 DP which XBench compared it to, but that's not terribly surprising.

Results 49.97
System Info
Xbench Version 1.2
System Version 10.4.5 (8H1619)
Physical RAM 2048 MB
Model Macmini1,1
Drive Type ST98823AS
CPU Test 64.34
GCD Loop 216.43 11.41 Mops/sec
Floating Point Basic 75.74 1.80 Gflop/sec
vecLib FFT 37.48 1.24 Gflop/sec
Floating Point Library 56.61 9.86 Mops/sec
Thread Test 165.68
Computation 150.12 3.04 Mops/sec, 4 threads
Lock Contention 184.83 7.95 Mlocks/sec, 4 threads
Memory Test 98.74
System 98.31
Allocate 101.61 373.16 Kalloc/sec
Fill 94.86 4612.29 MB/sec
Copy 98.70 2038.66 MB/sec
Stream 99.18
Copy 83.22 1718.96 MB/sec
Scale 81.30 1679.72 MB/sec
Add 126.06 2685.29 MB/sec
Triad 123.71 2646.53 MB/sec
Quartz Graphics Test 58.05
Line 58.07 3.87 Klines/sec [50% alpha]
Rectangle 50.88 15.19 Krects/sec [50% alpha]
Circle 52.85 4.31 Kcircles/sec [50% alpha]
Bezier 76.01 1.92 Kbeziers/sec [50% alpha]
Text 58.18 3.64 Kchars/sec
OpenGL Graphics Test 184.31
Spinning Squares 184.31 233.81 frames/sec
User Interface Test 20.63
Elements 20.63 94.70 refresh/sec
Disk Test 26.83
Sequential 46.19
Uncached Write 44.22 27.15 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 44.83 25.36 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 46.52 13.62 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 49.54 24.90 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Random 18.91
Uncached Write 6.10 0.65 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Write 51.23 16.40 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Uncached Read 66.38 0.47 MB/sec [4K blocks]
Uncached Read 76.52 14.20 MB/sec [256K blocks]

Don't really know what it all means, but I can tell you that using this machine is a pleasure.

I think that the CPU scores are the most interesting. I wonder what a core duo mini could do with a decent HDD.

applesnapple · Mar 29, 2006, 06:54 PM

how is the imac cd's optical out? does this mean I can hook up my 5.1 home theater system to the imac and get surround sound, if the content is made for surround sound?

stuffedmonkey · Mar 29, 2006, 08:57 PM

He dosen't have an iMac - he has a Mini.