[Cipher13]

Hey all,

I've looked for information on this sort of thing all over the place and come up with nothing but advertisements. I figure the collective knowledge of MacNN is my best to find some useful information.

Basically, in August, I plan on going to Europe for a month or so. How long I'll be spending there I don't yet know, but in short, I have no concept whatsoever of what I need to know to be heading there.

Most likely, I'll be meeting a friend in Rome and heading North from there. The current plan is extremely vague, but ideally, we'll spend a few days to a week in Rome, then head to Venice by the quickest method possible, though I've found very little information on flying there (are there even flights between Rome and Venice?). After spending however much time in Venice, we plan to head North through the alps (hopefully via a rented car, but a train may have to suffice) towards castle Neuschwanstein.

After that, I really have no idea. There are so many places I'd love to visit there, and I'm only really limited by cash and time... but I really don't know how much it will cost to be there.

The basic ideas after that are to head to either München or Zürich. I really don't know a whole lot about the two cities, or surrounding regions, but they're geographically logical.

Beyond that I'd like to visit London, Northern Scotland, and Southern Ireland. A bonus would be to hit Amsterdam and Sweden, and... well, wherever really.

Any and all advice or experience is welcome... regarding places to visit, places to stay, travel methods, cost appraisals, whatever. I suppose I'm more interested in checking out historic and scenic sites than I am in the clubbing scene and whatnot (on this visit at least).

I can't really provide a temporal or monetary budget because I don't really know what it'll be yet, but when I know I'll say so.

Thanks in advance.

[Kerrigan]

I would think that for "a month or so", Italy, Germany, England, northern Scotland, Southern Ireland, Holland, and Sweden, is a bit too ambitious.

I would suggest something simpler, and which doesn't have you zigzagging all over a huge continent. Maybe start in London, spend a week there, take the train down to Paris, spend a week there, take the train further down into the south and then hit up Provence and Italy for a while, then fly home from Italy.

The thing is though that you shouldn't hesitate to spend a long time in one area. Once I took the TGV down to Provence and stayed in that region for a month and never felt the slightest inkling to return home.

[Mastrap]

Sounds to me that what you need is a Eurail pass. Unlimited train travel all over Europe for a month.

Add to this a Youth Hostel guidebook and you're good to go.

[Cipher13]

Yeah, "a month or so" is being pretty conservative. I'd rather be over-ambitious and then cut it down from there to decide what I want to do, than be under-ambitious and bored.

The thing is, I'm really not interested in England or France at all. Not even slightly, really. I'd only be in England because it's a gateway to Scotland and Ireland, and France isn't anywhere on my radar at the moment. One of the "rules" of this trip, though, is to start in Rome, as that's where I'm meeting the person I'm going with. Can you tell me more about Provence? I've looked it up but haven't found a whole lot of useful information.

I don't really have a problem spending a lot of time in one area, but the money is a concern unfortunately. Once the initial trip is over, though, who knows? I might even decide to get a working visa in London or something and set up a beachhead to operate from there.

I've also looked into the Eurail passes, and they seem extremely expensive for what they are - I'd rather pay twice as much and have a car. The thing is, I don't like the idea of being confined to a train while going through places I've never been to - I want to drive through the alps, and through the countryside thereafter, stopping whereever I like. I'm in this more for the scenery than the history, and having to just go straight past some amazing places would be awful.

That said, the Eurail option may be the only one I have - though for an unlimited Eurail pass it's over $800 Australian for 15 days, and even more for the full month.

Unfortunately, I don't even really know where I want to go yet, which does complicate things... but again, thanks for the ideas. Everything is helpful at this stage.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Mastrap 

Sounds to me that what you need is a Eurail pass. Unlimited train travel all over Europe for a month.

For a month long trip I'd consider flying instead... eurorail wants $1000 per person! $1000 will buy a lot of Ryanair/Easyjet/etc tickets.

[Nicko]

As others have said go with the Eurorail pass

Only foreigners can buy the eurorail pass, it can save you ALOT of money. The pass also gives you discounts at certain hotel chains. The secret is to use it strategically. For example, travel at night on the train and then you don't have to pay for a hotel. Also read the fine print on eurorail passes, you actually get a lot of mileage out of them for the # of travel days you purchase (depending on what kind of ticket you have). The travel days are not consecutive, so you might purchase 15 travel days and be able to use them over the course of 2 months - read small print.

I got 1st class tickets which were pretty snazzy (euraiil gives a big discount)...I think the best part was getting air conditioning. But the regular cars are just fine, well except for having no air conditioning.

Traveling on Trains in europe is really fun though. Many times you can just get off the train, put your bags in a locker at the station, explore the town for the day (or a few hours), and then get right back on the train at the end of the day to continue on your trip.

If you are short on money, avoid the big cities. Paris? London? TOO expensive. Just stay a day or two in these places to see the main sites and then check out smaller towns. I really like places like Avignon or Brugge, and they are considerably cheaper than Paris or even Amsterdam.

Considering it now takes $2 to get one pound... you might want to think twice about travel to the UK, it will probably cost more than you think to get all the way up to Scotland, so that might be something for a second trip. Unless you fly that is.

Basically, plan out each day in advance. I went on a mini-European trip two years ago by train with some friends. I reserved all hotels ahead of time and had the train schedule all sorted out. It worked great. If you can do that you'll save yourself ALOT of hassle.... especially if you are going in high season, when hotels are booked up. If you can reserve all your hotels on internet a few weeks ahead of time, you will save a lot.

Pack light and buy a lonely planet guide to europe or rough guide to europe, there are lots of them.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by Cipher13 

After spending however much time in Venice, we plan to head North through the alps (hopefully via a rented car, but a train may have to suffice) towards castle Neuschwanstein.

The "romantic road" starting at Neuschwanstein and heading north up through the middle of Germany seems to be one of the most popular routes to see some scenic Germany. After that I think you'd like Berlin, for a change from the countryside. And if you get to Heidelberg, look me up.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Vienna, Prague, and Budapest.

Never been to Europe, but that's what I'm told. Go to those. I'm saving up. Right now I have.....*peers into yellow university water bottle serving as piggy bank*.....about $56 in twonies.

I'm on my way.

greg

[Oisín]

(are there even flights between Rome and Venice?)

RyanAir fly between Rome and Venice (and many other European cities). They’re also dirt cheap, at least if you manage to book at least about a month in advance. I just bought two return tickets between Milan and Rome for late June, and paid about 80 Australian Dollars; for a one-person, one-way trip, 20–30 AUD should be doable. Look into either them or EasyJet flying to other cities, as well; they don’t have extensive airport networks, but they fly between most major cities and are cheap.


May I ask why only southern Ireland, though? Personally, the part of Ireland I found most beautiful and loved the most was the western (especially northwestern) coastal areas; the south (Cork et al.) was okay, but just that.

[philm]

Originally Posted by Nicko 

Considering it now takes $2 to get one pound... you might want to think twice about travel to the UK, it will probably cost more than you think to get all the way up to Scotland, so that might be something for a second trip. Unless you fly that is.

Well, the USD is weak against all the European currencies at present, so that's a bit tough. My advice would be to use the train if you want to experience the sights that you will travel through. Otherwise, get a plane if you just want to get from A to B.

[aristotles]

I too had considered Euro pass but now I'm also thinking of buying flights within Europe from the discount airlines instead.

Rome was great. I was there for a week two years ago and I found even that felt too short. Your best laid plans can be dashed by a freak rain storm.

If you only have a month, I would think your plans are a bit ambitious.

Have you considered one of those bus tours? There are supposed to be some good ones that leave from Amsterdam, hit Paris, Lucerne, Switzerland, Milan and Rome.

I'll be heading to Paris, Barcelona, Frankfurt and Helsinki within the span of two and a half weeks this summer.

[wolfen]

Well I've never been there, but my Grandmother says the Red Light District in Amsterdam is the best trip in all of Europe.


I didn't ask for details.

[Timo]

A few thoughts.

Rome is great. I was only in Venice in the winter (foggy and terrific) -- I wonder if in summer it's just muggy, smelly and even-more tourista. I'd pick Florence instead. I'm pretty sure even folks from Switzerland would tell you to skip Zurich -- Vienna would be much more interesting. I've been to Munich and while beautiful in some ways it's not as interesting as Vienna, Prague or Berlin.

Amsterdam is terrific, so is London. Stockholm isn't as interesting as those two cities, unless you have some "in" there (friends or relatives who can show you the inside). I love Scotland and am travelling to the west of Ireland plus a week on Skye this summer myself.

My usual inclination regarding travelling is to just hole up in one place and learn it...but that doesn't sound like your kind of trip. But I would say still that you could limit your itinerary somewhat so that you're not always on a train.

Sounds fun...I'll be interested in what you decide.

[Mastrap]

Forget about renting a car. It's insanely expensive at the best of times and even more so for somebody your age.

[Cipher13]

Thanks very much for all the info - it's all extremely helpful

It looks like the Eurail pass is probably the way to go at the moment, though I'd still have to compare it with flight prices. As I figure out more I'll update this thread.

Thanks again.

[Mastrap]

Remember also that when you fly Ryainair to, for example, Stockholm they don't really fly to Stockholm. They will fly to a regional airport nearby, thus keeping their landing fees as low as possible. Their entire business was build on that idea. What it means for the passengers that there is normally a one to two hour bus journey from the airport to their final destination.

[Randman]

The more places you go, the more money you'll spend.

Your first post is akin to a European saying: I'm meeting a friend in Las Vegas, then we're going to Chicago. Thinking of visiting LA, San Diego, New York and maybe Indianapolis.

My suggestion: Pick a couple of places and enjoy the sights, sounds and food. Otherwise your entire trip will be seen from a window in a train or airplane.

[Goldfinger]

I'd say, don't spend more than 3 days in the same city. You can see the any city in 2 days unless you're going to do museums. Don't go to Zurich, nothing to see there IMHO. Munchen is nice but not really essential, especially if this is a once in a decade or so trip. I wouldn't go there either.

I'd say, Rome, Venice if you want, Côte d'Azur then straight up to Paris (you don't need to spend a ton in Paris) straight on to Wonderfull Belgium . I'd go for Antwerp, Gent or Brugge if I were you. Brussels isn't great. From there on you could go to Berlin or the Northern German coast. Bad Doberan, Heiligendamm for example. Leaving there you could pass through Hamburg maybe and go straight on to Amsterdam. I'd suggest amsterdam, since that's the place everybody suggests. I don't like Holland so I can't say much about it. From Amsterdam to England or maybe straight on to Scotland and from Scotland to Ireland to end your trip.

When going to england you're probably better of taking the boat from Zeebrugge or Calais (or the Eurostar) so you could go and see Brugge after seeing Amsterdam and you could go to Gent or Antwerp the first time you go through Belgium (or skip Belgium the first time).

my two euro cents

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger 

I'd say, don't spend more than 3 days in the same city. You can see the any city in 2 days unless you're going to do museums.

I very much disagree. I lived in London for 17 years and only scratched the surface. It's impossible to see any major city in two days.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Mastrap 

I very much disagree. I lived in London for 17 years and only scratched the surface. It's impossible to see any major city in two days.

To be fair, he's from Belgium.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by analogika 

To be fair, he's from Belgium.

True that. You can do Belgium in an afternoon.


I keed, I keed. I am not all that keen on Brussels, but I remember liking Antwerp very much. It was one of these foggy fall days and Antwerp does faded glory extremely well.

[analogika]

I'll admit I've never been to Belgium. I just didn't want to pass up that chance, there.

[Goldfinger]

heh,

Well the thing is. I personally don't like spending a week in a city. You can visit all the landmarks in a day and you'll have a day left for more "in depth" visiting or things you forgot to see. Plus maybe a day or so for shopping. But I never go more than 3 days. But of course if you want to see every detail you are indeed going to need to invest a lot of time. We mostly do city trips for shopping and eating.
But, as he's time restricted and since he's probably not going to come to Europe every few years (since it's probably darn expensive to come to Europe) I wanted to suggest to not linger around in just a few select places. If I were him I'd try to see as much as possible.

Antwerp, faded glory ? It's the center of the universe ! (yeah we're known to be cocky)

Antwerp Football Club sure is faded glory tough

[Timo]

I like Belgium, even Brussells. Once, I was travelling that way from Amsterdam, I met a girl on the train and got to talking. When I told her I was heading to Paris to live, she blurted out "Why Paris? We have everything Paris does, but half price."