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Is Biden Secretly Racist?
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AllegedNews
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Sep 22, 2008, 12:43 AM
 
Indians and 7-Eleven Comments (YouTube)

And then he says this about Barack Hussein Obama:

The New York Observer reports that Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., had this to say about fellow presidential candidate Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., during a recent interview:

"I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy ... I mean, that's a storybook, man."
Linkage USA Today

Still cannot understand why Barack Hussein Obama chose Biden.

Guess I'll defer to a favorite quote: ""Genius has it's limits; stupidity recognizes no such handicap."
     
Ratm
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Sep 22, 2008, 01:18 AM
 
Um, sir I think that horse is dead so please stop trying to mount it. Thnx

You can tell his intent wasn't to be offensive. But I think I would have been more offended by Biden putting both his hands on my shoulders like that and coming in so close to continue the conversation.

I would have said... Back up off me dude....I'm not looking for a sugar daddy.
     
AllegedNews  (op)
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Sep 22, 2008, 02:02 AM
 
I'd be offended if I were black.

"You got the first mainstream African-American who is ARTICULATE and BRIGHT and CLEAN..."

In other words, every other black in this country is inarticulate and dull and dirty?
     
Big Mac
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Sep 22, 2008, 03:03 AM
 
No, he was talking specifically about presidential candidates and drawing a distinction between Obama and Jesse Jackson. Nevertheless, it sounded quite racist.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
AllegedNews  (op)
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Sep 22, 2008, 06:41 AM
 
You're saying that Jesse Jackson is inarticulate and dull and dirty? (Or that Biden was saying that Jesse Jackson is inarticulate and dull and dirty?)

     
ebuddy
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Sep 22, 2008, 06:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by AllegedNews View Post
You're saying that Jesse Jackson is inarticulate and dull and dirty? (Or that Biden was saying that Jesse Jackson is inarticulate and dull and dirty?)

No, you forgot "mainstream". Jesse Jackson is not "mainstream". It seems to me Biden is simply saying; here we have an actual serious, (able to garner the black and white vote en masse) African-American candidate for President. There are plenty of gaffes to look for in Biden, but I don't think this constitutes one. Plus, I might add that if you do support the McCain/Palin ticket to be careful. They're not done saying what they have to say and if the above standard is applied equally rigid across the board, you may find this call for racism back-fire. In fact, you know this type of standard wouldn't need to be equal to indict a Republican of racism.
ebuddy
     
stupendousman
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Sep 22, 2008, 06:55 AM
 
Originally Posted by AllegedNews View Post
You're saying that Jesse Jackson is inarticulate and dull and dirty? (Or that Biden was saying that Jesse Jackson is inarticulate and dull and dirty?)

'
Yeah...there's really no way to put a positive spin on this. If Biden would have been a Republican, he would have been out of office already.
     
besson3c
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Sep 22, 2008, 08:26 AM
 
Is it just me or does the PL often feel like a bad SNL skit?
     
AllegedNews  (op)
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Sep 22, 2008, 08:38 AM
 
Yeah...there's really no way to put a positive spin on this. If Biden would have been a Republican, he would have been out of office already.
That's absolutely true, no doubt about it.

Then there's the part where Biden says this about Obama:

[Biden] doesn't think, though, that Obama can win the presidency because he is "a one-term, a guy who has served for four years in the Senate. ... I don't recall hearing a word from Barack about a plan or a tactic."
Frankly, I don't understand why McCain doesn't use that in a commercial sometime.
     
ShortcutToMoncton
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Sep 22, 2008, 08:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by AllegedNews View Post
"You got the first mainstream African-American who is ARTICULATE and BRIGHT and CLEAN..."
It looks to me as though he was quoted wrong.

It probably should be "You got the first mainstream African-American, who is ARTICULATE and BRIGHT and CLEAN..."

So he's calling Obama the first mainstream African-American (which is probably true politics-wise), and THEN he describes his supposedly great qualities.

Remember, quoting people from speech isn't an easy task.

greg
Mankind's only chance is to harness the power of stupid.
     
stupendousman
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Sep 22, 2008, 08:59 AM
 
Originally Posted by besson3c View Post
Is it just me or does the PL often feel like a bad SNL skit?
Maybe it's because Joe Biden often times seems to be reading from a bad SNL script?
     
ort888
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Sep 22, 2008, 01:25 PM
 
I heard that Joe Biden has a secret second life where he dresses up as a masked vigilante and kills hobos under the shadowy cloak of night.

My sig is 1 pixel too big.
     
besson3c
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Sep 22, 2008, 01:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Maybe it's because Joe Biden often times seems to be reading from a bad SNL script?
Nice one! How many points was this one worth?
     
andi*pandi
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Sep 22, 2008, 01:28 PM
 
commas are very important folks
     
besson3c
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Sep 22, 2008, 01:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
I heard that Joe Biden has a secret second life where he dresses up as a masked vigilante and kills hobos under the shadowy cloak of night.
Which puts B Hussein O in a major dilemma since he has stated publicly that he wants to ban the night!
     
ort888
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Sep 22, 2008, 01:38 PM
 
B Hussein O loves the night, because he's able to use his dark skin color to blend in.

It allows him to sneak into the hard-working and honest rich people's houses and steal all their hard earned money to give to the do-nothing, lazy, and impoverished deadbeats.

If B Hussein O had his way, every citizen of the United States would make the exact same amount of money and live in a government provided standardized housing pod. Every citizen would work in the soylent green factory making the former rich people of the country into food for the uneducated and lazy citizens of tomorrow.

Children would go to school to learn how to have graphic sex starting right from kindergarten. That way they can have more abortions and generate more stem cells to develop a way to make Democrat elites immortal, so that they can lord over us forever.

My sig is 1 pixel too big.
     
Big Mac
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Sep 22, 2008, 01:50 PM
 
Sounds about right, guys. I'm so glad we've come to a consensus on B Hussein O.

"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
     
besson3c
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Sep 22, 2008, 02:31 PM
 
Now I know where government cheese will come from!


The take home message here guys is that just because you disagree with somebody politically doesn't warrant making such wild leaps and invoking more endless and completely utterly pointless and endless ranting. The way you change our minds is by making unemotional, rational, well constructed arguments like ebuddy or vmarks do. Even then, we are all stubborn no matter what our political persuasion, so a great amount of patience and civility helps a great deal too. All the ranting does is make me wonder what the score is and where I put my pom poms!
     
stupendousman
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Sep 22, 2008, 03:04 PM
 
My point is that I really don't know whether Biden is racist or not.

What I do know is that he says things that a man in his position should not be saying, because they are clearly insensitive in regards to issues of race and often times gender.

If a Republican had engaged in plagiarism and said the things that Biden has said, he would not still be in office at this point. I say this not with an intent to change anyone's mind, but simply to point out an observation.
     
ebuddy
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Sep 22, 2008, 06:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by ort888 View Post
I heard that Joe Biden has a secret second life where he dresses up as a masked vigilante and kills hobos under the shadowy cloak of night.
No silly that's Sarah Palin.
ebuddy
     
Chuckit
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Sep 22, 2008, 07:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
My point is that I really don't know whether Biden is racist or not.

What I do know is that he says things that a man in his position should not be saying, because they are clearly insensitive in regards to issues of race and often times gender.

If a Republican had engaged in plagiarism and said the things that Biden has said, he would not still be in office at this point. I say this not with an intent to change anyone's mind, but simply to point out an observation.
The last refuge is always, "Well, OK, but it doesn't matter if he's actually done anything wrong! He shouldn't have done something that allows people who are already biased against him to jump to the completely wrong conclusion!" Of course, being silent isn't acceptable either.

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't, I guess.
Chuck
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besson3c
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Sep 22, 2008, 07:25 PM
 
Exactly. Save your firepower for when it matters, not these strange and remote hypotheticals. If you really wanted to comb through Biden's, McCain's, Obama's, or Palin's record I'm sure you could dig up plenty of dirt. How about saving your rant for when it really matters?

The same could be said for premature ejaculation.
     
ebuddy
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Sep 22, 2008, 08:27 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
The last refuge is always, "Well, OK, but it doesn't matter if he's actually done anything wrong! He shouldn't have done something that allows people who are already biased against him to jump to the completely wrong conclusion!" Of course, being silent isn't acceptable either.
Why isn't being silent acceptable? I should think for his proponents, being silent might be a good idea. I mean, let's not act like this isn't the 800 lb. gorilla in the room with Biden. Let's also agree that the racial component is not exclusive to Democrats. To stupendousman's point, what is good for the goose, is good for the gander. If it isn't, the effort will have to be given thrust by average joes. Be sure to pass on that we appreciate this forum to speak.

The debates between Biden and Sarah will likely enjoy an awful lot of market for many reasons, gaffe-fest being one of them. I imagine the college environment will be awash with "suckup, fuxxup!" Not only from Biden detractors, (who IMO, would do well to remain absolutely silent) but from those who support Biden as well. Between the two of us, if we're the least bit honest with ourselves and one another; this whole thing should give us both plenty to laugh about.

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't, I guess.
No need to cry for ol' Biden. I think he'll be alright. If he hasn't been laughed out of the place by now, he won't be.
ebuddy
     
stupendousman
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Sep 22, 2008, 09:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Chuckit View Post
The last refuge is always, "Well, OK, but it doesn't matter if he's actually done anything wrong! He shouldn't have done something that allows people who are already biased against him to jump to the completely wrong conclusion!" Of course, being silent isn't acceptable either.

Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't, I guess.
Most people don't have a problem with multiple instances of saying things which a normal person could see as racially insensitive. I most certainly think it's better to not say anything than to stick your foot in your mouth and say something really ignorant. Why is that so hard for Joe? Obama doesn't really have that problem. Neither do McCain or Palin. One might suggest that's evidence of something not quite right with the way Joe thinks.

I'd be glad to "save it" for something more worthwhile, but I've been programmed all these years by the Democrats that that isn't what is right. Just ask Trent Lott.
     
Gee-Man
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Sep 22, 2008, 09:23 PM
 
So - honest question - did you think what Trent Lott said was racist or racially insensitive?
     
stupendousman
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Sep 22, 2008, 10:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Gee-Man View Post
So - honest question - did you think what Trent Lott said was racist or racially insensitive?
Racist? No, not at all.

Insensitive? Sure.

I don't judge Lott any harsher or better than Joe. It's THE DEMOCRATS who have a double standard, not me.
     
tie
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Sep 23, 2008, 12:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
If a Republican had engaged in plagiarism and said the things that Biden has said, he would not still be in office at this point. I say this not with an intent to change anyone's mind, but simply to point out an observation.
Well, this at least clearly isn't true. Lots of Republicans, and other Democrats, too, have said worse things without real consequences.

And now we have the whole Barack Hussein Obama thing. Big Mac writes "B.H.O." to save characters over writing "Obama". I guess his excuse is that he can't count?
The 4 o'clock train will be a bus.
It will depart at 20 minutes to 5.
     
Chongo
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Sep 23, 2008, 12:21 AM
 
Big, just call him BMO, for Barack Milhouse Obama
45/47
     
hyteckit
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Sep 23, 2008, 04:59 AM
 
AllegedNews = Reverse Racist™
Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
     
stupendousman
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Sep 23, 2008, 06:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by tie View Post
Well, this at least clearly isn't true. Lots of Republicans, and other Democrats, too, have said worse things without real consequences.
What Republican with any kind of national leadership position has said worse without any consequences? I know that there are Democrats who have, but I"m not aware of any Republicans who have and not loss something for saying it.
     
Paco500
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Sep 23, 2008, 06:42 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Racist? No, not at all.

Insensitive? Sure.

I don't judge Lott any harsher or better than Joe. It's THE DEMOCRATS who have a double standard, not me.
Let's be real.

1. Biden was called out in a major way last year when he made those comments.
2. Trent Lott was majority leader of the Senate. Lott said: "When Strom Thurmond ran for president, we voted for him. We’re proud of it. And if the rest of the country had followed our lead, we wouldn't have had all these problems over the years, either." Thurmond's platform as a "Dixiecrat" was based racial segregation and in support of Jim Crow laws. Their slogan was "Segregation Forever!" Lott said he voted for this and our country would have been better if Thurmond had won. Biden called Obama clean. While what Biden said was arguably condescending, it's not close to the same league as what Lott said.

I have no idea if Lott is a racist, and while perhaps he didn't mean it, what he said, without question, was.
     
Paco500
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Sep 23, 2008, 06:52 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
What Republican with any kind of national leadership position has said worse without any consequences? I know that there are Democrats who have, but I"m not aware of any Republicans who have and not loss something for saying it.
President Bush, commenting on Obama: "Oh, I don’t know. He, let’s — he hasn’t gotten elected yet. He hasn’t even gotten the party’s nomination either. He’s an attractive guy. He’s articulate. I’ve been impressed with him when I’ve seen him in person. But he’s got a long way to go to be president."

For the record, I don't think Bush's statement here was racist either, just poor choice of words.
     
AllegedNews  (op)
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Sep 23, 2008, 07:17 AM
 
What Bush said is a far cry from calling someone "the first black who is clean" to paraphrase Biden.
     
Paco500
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Sep 23, 2008, 07:17 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
What Republican with any kind of national leadership position has said worse without any consequences? I know that there are Democrats who have, but I"m not aware of any Republicans who have and not loss something for saying it.
Here's some more. Shall I keep posting or do you want to just admit you are a blowhard and we can move on.

Jesse Helms
Senator from North Carolina (R) 1973-2003
Chairman of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations 1995-2001
Chairman of the Senate Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition and Forestry 1981-1987

"I've been portrayed as a caveman by some. That's not true. I'm a conservative progressive, and that means I think all men are equal, be they slants, beaners or ni***rs."
-Jesse Helms, North Carolina Progressive, February 6, 1985, quoted in, "Yes, They Really Said It!"

"There is not one single case of AIDS in this country that cannot be traced in origin to sodomy."
(States News Service, 5/17/88)

University of North Carolina (UNC): "University of Negroes and Communists".

"They should ask their parents if it would be all right for their son or daughter to marry a Negro."
-- In response to Duke University students holding a vigil after Martin Luther King, Jr. was assassinated, 1968

"All Latins are volatile people. Hence, I was not surprised at the volatile reaction." stated by Helms after Mexicans protested his visit to Mexico in 1986 to investigate allegations of political corruption."
-Helms investigation into whether there might be communists in Mexico

"To rob the Negro of his reputation of thinking through a problem in his own fashion is about the same as trying to pretend that he doesn't have a natural instinct for rhythm and for singing and dancing."
— Helms responding in 1956 to criticism that a fictional black character in his newspaper column was offensive.
     
Paco500
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Sep 23, 2008, 07:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by AllegedNews View Post
What Bush said is a far cry from calling someone "the first black who is clean" to paraphrase Biden.
True, if we accept your paraphrasing as accurate. Which it's not. But no, it's not as big a gaffe as what Biden said, but in exactly the same vein and both could have used more considered phrasing.
     
stupendousman
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Sep 23, 2008, 07:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
Here's some more. Shall I keep posting or do you want to just admit you are a blowhard and we can move on.

Jesse Helms
Senator from North Carolina (R) 1973-2003
Chairman of the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations 1995-2001
Chairman of the Senate Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition and Forestry 1981-1987

"I've been portrayed as a caveman by some. That's not true. I'm a conservative progressive, and that means I think all men are equal, be they slants, beaners or ni***rs."
-Jesse Helms, North Carolina Progressive, February 6, 1985, quoted in, "Yes, They Really Said It!"
http://forums.macnn.com/95/political...helms-is-dead/

Most of the quotes attributed to Jesse Helms where inventions made by others. They where either unsourced or the sources couldn't be found to actually exist. That's not to say he at some point didn't hold racist views or in the distant past didn't say things that were intemperate, just that most of the ones attributed to Helms aren't from any credible source.

I really should have qualified my request though to limit the scope to about the 15 years. That's long enough for the excuse that people came from "different times" to not be valid. That was a time before the Democrats decided that insensitive speech (for Republicans) should be punished. I'm sure you can find some really horrendously anti-race things our founding fathers said as well. Heck, the oldest Democrat in the Senate used to belong to the KKK, and I'm wouldn't include that either.

I think though you knew what I was talking about. The fact that you had to reach back at least into the eighties, with quotes from questionable sources, shows the difficulty the task (even without the new qualification).
( Last edited by stupendousman; Sep 23, 2008 at 07:50 AM. )
     
Paco500
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Sep 23, 2008, 08:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
http://forums.macnn.com/95/political...helms-is-dead/
Most of the quotes attributed to Jesse Helms where inventions made by others. They where either unsourced or the sources couldn't be found to actually exist.
Those were taken from a quick google search. I have no reason to doubt that what you say is true.

You want something more up to date? How about from 2000?

On his campaign bus, Sen. John McCain told reporters, "I hated the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live."

This is attributed all over. There is no reason to doubt it's accuracy.

I'm not making a claim for racism here, but to deny that Republicans never say anything that could be interpreted as racist without being thrown out of office is just plain stupid.
     
stupendousman
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Sep 23, 2008, 08:38 AM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
On his campaign bus, Sen. John McCain told reporters, "I hated the gooks. I will hate them as long as I live."

This is attributed all over. There is no reason to doubt it's accuracy.
I checked. You are right on this one. But don't you think that this one quote is a little different than the others? I mean, after all...he's specifically talking about the PEOPLE WHO TORTURED HIM AND HELD HIM CAPTIVE?

I'm not sure there are very many people who can get a pass on using a slur against someone who have the amount of valid reasons to do so that McCain did. Can you imagine the outcry from veterans groups if McCain where to be somehow punished for hating the men who violated his rights as a human being?

I'm not making a claim for racism here, but to deny that Republicans never say anything that could be interpreted as racist without being thrown out of office is just plain stupid.
I stand by my observation. When you have to go back to the 80's from unverifiable sources or quote a guy talking about people who violated his rights, I think you are stretching. This isn't like Robert Byrd a few years ago talking about "white n*ggers" on TV, Jesse Jackson referring to "heimeytown", or the numerous insensitive comments Biden has made just recently.

Remember - Trent Lott was hounded out of his leadership position because he said at Strom Thurmond's retirement party, the guy who long before he died fought for civil rights and was a champion for minority higher eduction - would have made a good President. It wasn't the smartest thing to say given that Thurmond was a segregationist at the time he ran for office, but given the circumstances in which the comment was said, it was a stretch to say that it was racist (as Al Gore publicly claimed) or that it should be a disqualifier for leadership when Democrats have said and done much worse without anyone pipping a squeak.
     
Paco500
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Sep 23, 2008, 08:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
I checked. You are right on this one. But don't you think that this one quote is a little different than the others? I mean, after all...he's specifically talking about the PEOPLE WHO TORTURED HIM AND HELD HIM CAPTIVE?
Whoops, completely forgot about the McCain's blanket "I was a POW" get out of jail free card. My bad.

Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Remember - Trent Lott was hounded out of his leadership position because he said at Strom Thurmond's retirement party, the guy who long before he died fought for civil rights and was a champion for minority higher eduction - would have made a good President. It wasn't the smartest thing to say given that Thurmond was a segregationist at the time he ran for office, but given the circumstances in which the comment was said, it was a stretch to say that it was racist (as Al Gore publicly claimed) or that it should be a disqualifier for leadership when Democrats have said and done much worse without anyone pipping a squeak.
This was hardly Lott's first foray in the land of Racist gaffes.

… during the 1980 presidential campaign, he spoke after Thurmond at a Mississippi rally for Ronald Reagan and said: “You know, if we had elected that man 30 years ago, we wouldn’t be in the mess we are today.”

— November 1980

Shortly before Lott praised Thurmond in 1980, he had successfully campaigned to restore Jefferson Davis’ citizenship, which was stripped when he became head of the Confederacy.

Said Lott nearly a decade later: “Sometimes I feel closer to Jefferson Davis than any other man in America.”

— May 1998, according to the National Review Online

“The spirit of Jefferson Davis lives in the 1984 Republican platform.”

— 1984, at a convention of the Sons of Confederate Veterans

“I think that a lot of the fundamental principles that Jefferson Davis believed in are very important to people across the country, and they apply to the Republican Party.”

— Fall 1984, in an interview with Southern Partisan magazine, explaining his convention speech

“Racial discrimination does not always violate public policy.”

— 1981, in a brief Lott submitted to the Supreme Court in defense of Bob Jones University’s explicitly discriminatory policies

Though he may have thought discrimination was legal, that doesn’t mean he endorsed it when picking a Supreme Court nominee, as he explained in an Oct. 27, 2005, CNN interview.

“I want the president to look across the country and find the best man, woman or minority that he can find.”

From:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1107/7050.html
     
stupendousman
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Sep 23, 2008, 09:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
Whoops, completely forgot about the McCain's blanket "I was a POW" get out of jail free card. My bad.
Not "blanket". I'm just saying that most people can see the difference between irrational hate, and hatred for people who have violated your rights. It's the reason why black people often times get a pass when talking about white people who have done them wrong. It's not just McCain who gets a pass for this sort of thing. It's the difference between hating someone because of what they look like, and hating someone who has proven themselves to be worthy of hate by any reasonable standard.

This was hardly Lott's first foray in the land of Racist gaffes.

… during the 1980 presidential campaign, he spoke after Thurmond at a Mississippi rally for Ronald Reagan and said: “You know, if we had elected that man 30 years ago, we wouldn’t be in the mess we are today.”

— November 1980
Again...the guy who spent most of the last 25 years in office supporting civil rights and specifically was a champion of providing higher education for minorities. There were a lot of racists in office back in the 50's who later became great leaders. Bill Clinton as a young man sent cards featuring black people eating watermellon on a stoop to his mom because he thought it was really funny.

Shortly before Lott praised Thurmond in 1980, he had successfully campaigned to restore Jefferson Davis’ citizenship, which was stripped when he became head of the Confederacy.

Said Lott nearly a decade later: “Sometimes I feel closer to Jefferson Davis than any other man in America.”

— May 1998, according to the National Review Online

“The spirit of Jefferson Davis lives in the 1984 Republican platform.”

— 1984, at a convention of the Sons of Confederate Veterans

“I think that a lot of the fundamental principles that Jefferson Davis believed in are very important to people across the country, and they apply to the Republican Party.”
What specifically was he referring to?

— Fall 1984, in an interview with Southern Partisan magazine, explaining his convention speech

“Racial discrimination does not always violate public policy.”
Unless you are against affirmative action, you'd have to agree.

— 1981, in a brief Lott submitted to the Supreme Court in defense of Bob Jones University’s explicitly discriminatory policies

Though he may have thought discrimination was legal, that doesn’t mean he endorsed it when picking a Supreme Court nominee, as he explained in an Oct. 27, 2005, CNN interview.

“I want the president to look across the country and find the best man, woman or minority that he can find.”

From:

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1107/7050.html
Bob Jones University opposed a LOT of things based on traditional morality that most would think is loony. A ban on interracial dating was one of them.
     
Paco500
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Sep 23, 2008, 09:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Not "blanket". I'm just saying that most people can see the difference between irrational hate, and hatred for people who have violated your rights.
Hating an entire racial group based on the actions of a few is irrational. But that's not the point. The point is here is a Republican that made a racist statement and did not get booted from office. You claimed this has never happened. You were wrong.
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
What specifically was he referring to?
What, specifically, is considered ok about invoking the spirit of Jefferson Davis? Or do you just not know who he was?
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Unless you are against affirmative action, you'd have to agree.
Were that the context, you may have a point. But it wasn't, so you don't.
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Bob Jones University opposed a LOT of things based on traditional morality that most would think is loony. A ban on interracial dating was one of them.
Oh, I see. Well that makes it ok then.
     
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Sep 23, 2008, 10:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
Hating an entire racial group based on the actions of a few is irrational. But that's not the point. The point is here is a Republican that made a racist statement and did not get booted from office. You claimed this has never happened. You were wrong.
I claim that while McCain made the slur in question, it was not a "racist" comment since according to every source I can find he made clear that it wasn't an "entire racial group" that he hated, but the specific people who attacked him that he hated. That's why he has been "given a pass".

What, specifically, is considered ok about invoking the spirit of Jefferson Davis? Or do you just not know who he was?
He played a mean game of checkers. Is that what Lott was referring to? I'm asking for the CONTEXT. Did he say anything about keeping the "colored people" down?

Oh, I see. Well that makes it ok then.
I didn't say it was "ok". I said it was over 25 years ago in defense of a religious school being able to set moral policy. Not really the same as calling people "n*ggers" just a few years back like ex-Klansman Robert Byrd (D) did.
     
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Sep 23, 2008, 10:58 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
I claim that while McCain made the slur in question, it was not a "racist" comment since according to every source I can find he made clear that it wasn't an "entire racial group" that he hated, but the specific people who attacked him that he hated. That's why he has been "given a pass".
Wait, so if some asian dude mugs me, I'm allowed to call him a 'gook' specifically (and not be considered racist), so long as I'm not referring to all asians?
     
Paco500
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Sep 23, 2008, 11:21 AM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
I claim that while McCain made the slur in question, it was not a "racist" comment since according to every source I can find he made clear that it wasn't an "entire racial group" that he hated, but the specific people who attacked him that he hated. That's why he has been "given a pass".
Regardless of his reasoning, he used a hateful racial epithet. He did not get run out of town on a rail. You were wrong. End of story.
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
He played a mean game of checkers. Is that what Lott was referring to? I'm asking for the CONTEXT. Did he say anything about keeping the "colored people" down?
Again, the quotes:

Originally Posted by Not in the least bit Racially insensitive Trent Lott
Shortly before Lott praised Thurmond in 1980, he had successfully campaigned to restore Jefferson Davis’ citizenship, which was stripped when he became head of the Confederacy.

Said Lott nearly a decade later: “Sometimes I feel closer to Jefferson Davis than any other man in America.”
— May 1998, according to the National Review Online

“The spirit of Jefferson Davis lives in the 1984 Republican platform.”
— 1984, at a convention of the Sons of Confederate Veterans

“I think that a lot of the fundamental principles that Jefferson Davis believed in are very important to people across the country, and they apply to the Republican Party.”
He was speaking positively about and identifying with the President of the Confederacy in a political context. Are you one of the "War of Northern Aggression" types? Do you believe the war was all about "states rights?" There is pretty much no context in which what he said could not be considered racially insensitive.
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
I didn't say it was "ok". I said it was over 25 years ago in defense of a religious school being able to set moral policy. Not really the same as calling people "n*ggers" just a few years back like ex-Klansman Robert Byrd (D) did.
Oh, I see, because we caught Bryd saying something worse it was ok. Gotcha.
     
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Sep 23, 2008, 12:05 PM
 
I'm not saying ANY of it is "okay". I'm explaining why he was given a "pass". At the time he was being held, it was common to call the ENEMY "gooks" - a term that likely wasn't used in reference to McCain's allies who were also Asian. When he referred again to these ENEMIES who VIOLATED HIS HUMAN RIGHTS by that term years later, most people with a reasonable ability to think understood that he was referring to THESE SPECIFIC ENEMIES based on what they SPECIFICALLY DID TO HIM and not Asians in general. Unless someone can come up with a scenario that is similar, you're likely not going to find a moral equivalent to compare it to.

..and I wasn't FORGIVING Lott for his stupid comment or trying to say because what Byrd said worse that Lott should be forgiven. My point was that Democrats traditionally get a pass JUST BECAUSE THEY ARE DEMOCRATS while Republicans have to do things like grovel and apologize and lose leadership positions when they say stupid things.

Byrd can use the "N" word....Biden can make fun of Indian Americans working at convenience stores.....Jesse Jackson can rant anti-semetically and all are welcome as Democrat role models while Lott is sent to detention.
     
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Sep 23, 2008, 12:11 PM
 
Do as I say, not as I do. Complain about the speck in your brother's eye while ignoring the stone in your own.
45/47
     
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Sep 23, 2008, 12:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Byrd can use the "N" word....Biden can make fun of Indian Americans working at convenience stores.....Jesse Jackson can rant anti-semetically and all are welcome as Democrat role models while Lott is sent to detention.
Byrd is not seen as a role model by any democrat I know. Most think of him as a pork obsessed equivalent of Ted Stephens. Jessie Jackson? He got grilled for the Hymie-Town comment and it pretty much derailed both his and Jerry Brown's presidential ambitions (Brown was polling ahead of Clinton until Brown made the meat-headed announcement that he would chose Jackson as a running mate right before the NY primary). I don't know ANY mainstream democrats that hold him up as a role model.

And Biden's 7-11 comment was unfortunate, but on the same level as Bush's comments on Philippinos.
Originally Posted by President Bush June 24, 2008
Madam President, it is a pleasure to welcome you back to the Oval Office. We have just had a very constructive dialogue. First, I want to tell you how proud I am to be the President of a nation that -- in which there's a lot of Philippine-Americans. They love America and they love their heritage. And I reminded the President that I am reminded of the great talent of the -- of our Philippine-Americans when I eat dinner at the White House.
I'm sure neither was meant in an offensive manner and I'm sure both should have chosen their words more carefully.
     
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Sep 23, 2008, 12:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
I'm not saying ANY of it is "okay". I'm explaining why he was given a "pass". At the time he was being held, it was common to call the ENEMY "gooks" - a term that likely wasn't used in reference to McCain's allies who were also Asian. When he referred again to these ENEMIES who VIOLATED HIS HUMAN RIGHTS by that term years later, most people with a reasonable ability to think understood that he was referring to THESE SPECIFIC ENEMIES based on what they SPECIFICALLY DID TO HIM and not Asians in general. Unless someone can come up with a scenario that is similar, you're likely not going to find a moral equivalent to compare it to.
McCain did not say "I hated the gooks that tortured me. I will hate them as long as I live." This discussion is not about what people might have meant, it's about what they said and what the consequences were.
     
stupendousman
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Sep 23, 2008, 01:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Paco500 View Post
McCain did not say "I hated the gooks that tortured me. I will hate them as long as I live." This discussion is not about what people might have meant, it's about what they said and what the consequences were.
Most non-partisan sources I've seen say he made it clear exactly who he was talking about. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have gotten a "pass" otherwise.
     
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Sep 23, 2008, 01:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by stupendousman View Post
Most non-partisan sources I've seen say he made it clear exactly who he was talking about. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have gotten a "pass" otherwise.
Cite a few please. I've not seen a single report about it that did not say he had to "clarify" him comments.
     
 
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