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The new iPad (Page 7)
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Spheric Harlot
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Mar 27, 2012, 04:16 AM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
The original iPhone had a pixel density of about 160, and the original iPad had a pixel density of about 130. Shrinking the 1024x768 screen from 10" to 7" would make the pixel density about the same as the original iPhone, which works just fine for fingers, obviously.

TL;DR: an iPad of 1024x768 at 7" would be perfectly usable with fingers.
You *may* have missed that developers design interfaces specifically for the iPhone, and design DIFFERENT interfaces specifically for the iPad.
     
lpkmckenna
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Mar 27, 2012, 04:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
You *may* have missed that developers design interfaces specifically for the iPhone, and design DIFFERENT interfaces specifically for the iPad.
The buttons are the same pixel sizes, the icons were the same dimensions, the UI elements were the same dimensions, etc.

There's no reason to think a 7" iPad would be too small for fingers. None.
     
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Mar 27, 2012, 04:48 AM
 
Take Safari for the iPad as an example. It is very different from the iPhone version - it has e.g real tabs. If you were to put that on a 7" tablet, everything would be half the size - the clicktarget for each button would have half the area of that on the 9.8" iPad - while your fingers would be no smaller.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
lpkmckenna
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Mar 27, 2012, 05:53 AM
 
The tabs on the iPad are the same vertical height as the address bar, the forward/back buttons, etc. Those work just fine on the iPhone.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Mar 27, 2012, 06:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
The tabs on the iPad are the same vertical height as the address bar, the forward/back buttons, etc. Those work just fine on the iPhone.
But they're rather different interfaces, aren't they?
     
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Mar 27, 2012, 07:51 AM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
The tabs on the iPad are the same vertical height as the address bar, the forward/back buttons, etc. Those work just fine on the iPhone.
Yes, I get that, but if you were to take the current iPad apps and just scale them down to 1024*768 on a 7" display, the controls would be smaller. If you want to make a 7" iPad, you pretty much have three options:
  1. Make new apps
  2. Use iPad apps scaled down
  3. Use iPhone apps scaled up

Making new apps would fragment the market even further. Scaling up iPhone apps would look ugly (and be confusing). Scaling down iPad apps would make the controls smaller.
The new Mac Pro has up to 30 MB of cache inside the processor itself. That's more than the HD in my first Mac. Somehow I'm still running out of space.
     
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Mar 27, 2012, 11:00 AM
 
More conjecture, but some interesting thoughts on the "iPad mini" rumor:

Apple Has 163 Reasons To Release Fabled 'iPad mini' -- AppAdvice
     
mduell
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Mar 27, 2012, 11:38 AM
 
Even better: the 7.85" iPad would have the same pixel density as the original iPhone, so most developers should have creative about ready to go.
     
freudling
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Mar 27, 2012, 08:20 PM
 
Why aren't any of you in charge of a big tech company? If someone put you in a room and your decision to create and release a 7.whatever it is today" was in your hands. A decision where you're responsible for a gazillion dollars, people's jobs, and the company's direction as a whole... would you still say "yes" to releasing an iPad mini?

I'm serious. Cut the Internet chat room talk. Would you say "yes"? Or would you stay with what you have, which is selling in the gazillions.
     
Wiskedjak
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Mar 27, 2012, 08:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Why aren't any of you in charge of a big tech company? If someone put you in a room and your decision to create and release a 7.whatever it is today" was in your hands. A decision where you're responsible for a gazillion dollars, people's jobs, and the company's direction as a whole... would you still say "yes" to releasing an iPad mini?

I'm serious. Cut the Internet chat room talk. Would you say "yes"? Or would you stay with what you have, which is selling in the gazillions.
Are we talking about the same kind of people in charge of a big tech company who decide to make their most popular high tech product "heavier and bulkier" than the last model?
     
Eug  (op)
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Mar 27, 2012, 09:01 PM
 
I vote freudling for king of armchair CEOs.
     
freudling
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Mar 27, 2012, 10:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Are we talking about the same kind of people in charge of a big tech company who decide to make their most popular high tech product "heavier and bulkier" than the last model?
We're talking about the same company who's making millions and gazillions more than any of us.
     
freudling
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Mar 27, 2012, 10:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I vote freudling for king of armchair CEOs.
Ya... I've actually raised money and lead tech start ups. I wonder about you? But I digress. What's your favorite inch size in a tablet? Let's have some fun. Each of us throw a number out there. I'll start it off:

10.376432"
     
Eug  (op)
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Mar 27, 2012, 10:53 PM
 
I suggest we rename this the freudling e-penis size thread.
     
freudling
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Mar 27, 2012, 11:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I suggest we rename this the freudling e-penis size thread.
It's pretty widely known that I'm in the 9.7" club and you're in the 7" club.
     
Wiskedjak
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Mar 27, 2012, 11:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
We're talking about the same company who's making millions and gazillions more than any of us.
Oh. So now you *don't* think that Apple made "a bunch of compromises" and took a "counter-evolutionary" "step backward" with the iPad3?
     
freudling
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Mar 28, 2012, 12:32 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Oh. So now you *don't* think that Apple made "a bunch of compromises" and took a "counter-evolutionary" "step backward" with the iPad3?
Yes, they did make a bunch of compromises. But that doesn't mean they haven't nailed the form factor. That remains unchanged. Nothing can detract away from this.
     
Wiskedjak
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Mar 28, 2012, 12:50 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Yes, they did make a bunch of compromises. But that doesn't mean they haven't nailed the form factor. That remains unchanged. Nothing can detract away from this.
Well, they've nailed *part* of the form factor. There are other factors of the form, such as the size and weight, that you quite clearly feel they screwed up. The point being, just because a person is in charge of a big tech company doesn't mean that they can't make decisions that don't jive with what freudling seems to think is the only option. They've already made it heavier. They've already made it bulkier. Who's to say they won't decide that it's very little skin off their back to make a sister device that's smaller? I can't imagine the cost to Apple to manufacture a 7" iPad alongside the 10" would amount to very much at all, where even a marginal benefit would likely outweigh any additional manufacturing cost.
     
Wiskedjak
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Mar 28, 2012, 12:58 AM
 
I suspect the people in charge of another big tech company aren't completely sad with one of their decisions.
Samsung ships five million Galaxy Notes in just five months -- Engadget

Sure, that's nowhere near the sales enjoyed by the iPad, but those also aren't numbers to sneeze at, and I'd bet a 7" iPad could sell *at least* twice as good as a 5" Samsung and steal those sales from Samsung.
     
freudling
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Mar 28, 2012, 01:54 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Well, they've nailed *part* of the form factor. There are other factors of the form, such as the size and weight, that you quite clearly feel they screwed up. The point being, just because a person is in charge of a big tech company doesn't mean that they can't make decisions that don't jive with what freudling seems to think is the only option. They've already made it heavier. They've already made it bulkier. Who's to say they won't decide that it's very little skin off their back to make a sister device that's smaller? I can't imagine the cost to Apple to manufacture a 7" iPad alongside the 10" would amount to very much at all, where even a marginal benefit would likely outweigh any additional manufacturing cost.
So go raise money and make a 7" tablet. All the best.
     
freudling
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Mar 28, 2012, 01:56 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
I suspect the people in charge of another big tech company aren't completely sad with one of their decisions.
Samsung ships five million Galaxy Notes in just five months -- Engadget

Sure, that's nowhere near the sales enjoyed by the iPad, but those also aren't numbers to sneeze at, and I'd bet a 7" iPad could sell *at least* twice as good as a 5" Samsung and steal those sales from Samsung.
I bet they could too. I bet a 7" iPad could sell 100 million in a week. Why doesn't Apple do it, then? That's what's left me scratching my head. I've an idea. Put together a Keynote and head down to Cupertino and pitch to them something they can't refuse. Why they "must" do a 7" tablet. Maybe summarize the key points here, I'd be interested to see your pitch.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Mar 28, 2012, 06:11 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
I suspect the people in charge of another big tech company aren't completely sad with one of their decisions.
Samsung ships five million Galaxy Notes in just five months -- Engadget

Sure, that's nowhere near the sales enjoyed by the iPad, but those also aren't numbers to sneeze at, and I'd bet a 7" iPad could sell *at least* twice as good as a 5" Samsung and steal those sales from Samsung.
There's that weird metric again: "shipped".

Wasn't it Samsung that taught us in a big way a while ago that "shipped" doesn't mean "sold", much less "sold minus returns"?
     
Wiskedjak
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Mar 28, 2012, 08:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
So go raise money and make a 7" tablet. All the best.
Why? Others already are. I'm just reminding you that these leaders of big tech companies that you've given god-like status on this page are the same schlebs that you were criticizing for taking Apple in the wrong direction only a few pages back. You don't think they'd decide to make a 7" iPad, but you also didn't think they'd make the iPad heavier and bulkier.

We've already seen Apple launch an AppleTV UI that was apparently shot down by Steve. You're of the opinion that, under Steve, Apple would never have released a heavier and bulkier iPad. Who's to say it wasnt Steve holding them back from a 7" tweener?
( Last edited by Wiskedjak; Mar 28, 2012 at 08:58 AM. )
     
freudling
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Mar 28, 2012, 11:28 AM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
Why? Others already are. I'm just reminding you that these leaders of big tech companies that you've given god-like status on this page are the same schlebs that you were criticizing for taking Apple in the wrong direction only a few pages back. You don't think they'd decide to make a 7" iPad, but you also didn't think they'd make the iPad heavier and bulkier.

We've already seen Apple launch an AppleTV UI that was apparently shot down by Steve. You're of the opinion that, under Steve, Apple would never have released a heavier and bulkier iPad. Who's to say it wasnt Steve holding them back from a 7" tweener?
Steve was holding them back from a 7". What I'm saying is, if you imagine you are in charge of a real company... would you commit resources.... people, money, marketing, etc. to releasing a 7" tablet? Knowing that almost all of them have failed in the market, aside from the Nook and now the Kindle Fire? Of these latter, B&N doesn't really make any money on the actual sale of the tablet, and the Fire is a money pit. Go read Amazon's quarterly report... While revenues are up, they're net income is down 58% year-over-year. Looking at their data, it doesn't look like selling at a loss and trying to make it up on sales of content is working.

We'll see next quarter how they fair. But now that the hype is died down... I doubt the situation is going to be much different.
     
SierraDragon
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Mar 28, 2012, 02:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
If someone put you in a room and your decision to create and release a 7.whatever it is today" was in your hands. A decision where you're responsible for a gazillion dollars, people's jobs, and the company's direction as a whole... would you still say "yes" to releasing an iPad mini?
Yes, absolutely.

Some caveats regarding your description however:

• Not "today," but within 12 months from today, most likely H2 2012. Release date timing is affected by variables we are unaware of.

• Personally over time if not immediately I expect variants other than just a single smaller unit (such as perhaps full featured and less-full-featured, etc.). But such variety would depend on market and developer response to introduction of smaller unit #1.

• The exact dimensions I would not try to guess, and I have no opinion on device names without knowing Apple's longer term plans.

Originally Posted by freudling View Post
It's pretty widely known that I'm in the 9.7" club and you're in the 7" club.
Perhaps this is part of why you are so wrong. There are not two "clubs" such as you seem to want to believe.

Instead there are

• Folks who insist that ~10" is the only viable size for tablets.

• Folks who believe that there is room for more than one size of Apple tablet.

Membership in the second group does not mean someone necessarily prefers one size or the other. It just means thinking that the market has room for a smaller size tablet from Apple; profitably.

-Allen
( Last edited by SierraDragon; Mar 28, 2012 at 02:28 PM. )
     
SierraDragon
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Mar 28, 2012, 02:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by P View Post
Yes, I get that, but if you were to take the current iPad apps and just scale them down to 1024*768 on a 7" display, the controls would be smaller. If you want to make a 7" iPad, you pretty much have three options:
  1. Make new apps
  2. Use iPad apps scaled down
  3. Use iPhone apps scaled up

Making new apps would fragment the market even further. Scaling up iPhone apps would look ugly (and be confusing). Scaling down iPad apps would make the controls smaller.
Agreed there is scaling involved in creating new sizes. And yes, as Apple introduces additional sizes and other variations their product lines become by definition more complex.

However I personally would not use the word fragmented in this instance. Properly done, filling in the spaces (and the gap between 3.75" and 9.75" is huge) within a product line can be solidifying rather than fragmenting.

And although scaling is non-trivial, with 2012 developer tools it is not all that big a deal when considered in terms of a potential market size measured in hundreds of millions of units.

-Allen
     
cgc
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Mar 28, 2012, 03:20 PM
 
I dunno about a 7-8" tablet...the current tablet form factor is nice and easy on the eyes and a phone-sized version (e.g. iPhone / Android / etc.) is portable, the mid-size tablet that's being mentioned here is neither easy to carry (like a phone) or as easy on the eyes as a 10-incher. It'll be more inexpensive but we all know it'll be $50 off the large tablet at most.
     
SierraDragon
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Mar 28, 2012, 03:51 PM
 
Agreed if one could only pick one size ~10" will win.

IMO Apple would not set selling price so close to the existing 10" but that would of course depend on features like resolution, display surface, battery, weight, etc. Everything is an engineering/cost compromise, and every new generation/product has more modern tech available to it.

Looking at the space (but without access to Apple's millions of dollars of ongoing market research) it looks to me like there is room in the next 6-18 months both for a larger iPhone and for a smaller iPad. It will be interesting to see how Apple addresses that: no change; two phones, one iPad; two phones, two iPads; one phone, one combo iPhad, one iPad; a large iPod Touch, yadayada...

-Allen
( Last edited by SierraDragon; Mar 28, 2012 at 04:19 PM. )
     
SierraDragon
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Mar 28, 2012, 04:49 PM
 
Interesting rumor just out in the last few minutes:

Apple at work on 5-inch Retina display device, rumor claims | iPodNN

IMO such rumors mean little because of course Apple has all kinds of experimental hardware in process, most of which the public will never see.

-Allen
     
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Mar 29, 2012, 01:35 PM
 
Making more SKU un-necessarily, caving to perceived market pressures, would make Apple and their userbase weaker by segmenting the market and increasing risk in material procurement.
What the user needs is a lighter iPad, not a smaller one necessarily. This will be done when OLEDs reach iPad specification.
     
freudling
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Mar 31, 2012, 11:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by The Godfather View Post
Making more SKU un-necessarily, caving to perceived market pressures, would make Apple and their userbase weaker by segmenting the market and increasing risk in material procurement.
What the user needs is a lighter iPad, not a smaller one necessarily. This will be done when OLEDs reach iPad specification.
This.

I'm using the iPad laying down right now typing with my thumbs and I hate how heavy it is. It wants to fall on my face and my hands are tired.
     
Wiskedjak
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Mar 31, 2012, 11:13 AM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
This.

I'm using the iPad laying down right now typing with my thumbs and I hate how heavy it is. It wants to fall on my face and my hands are tired.
And you could do this without any difficulty using the iPad 2?
     
freudling
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Mar 31, 2012, 12:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by Wiskedjak View Post
And you could do this without any difficulty using the iPad 2?
The iPad 2 is also a tad heavy. But I do feel a difference. I have both and am cycling between them right now. There is a noticeable difference. The thinness and lightness of the iPad 2 is very welcome. I hate this because the screen on the 3 is great... better than the 2 but the weight and girth increase really suck.

I'll say something else. Our Android developer got an Asus Transformer Prime. Wow! What a nice tablet. It's incredible. It looks gorgeous, feels incredible, the screen is amazing, it's fast, has 12 hour battery life, and is thinner and lighter than an iPad 2. Only problem is it takes a while to charge the battery. I won't leave iOS but I'm tempted. If you have a chance to demo one do it. Asus is coming out with the Retina version in a month or 2. Let's see if they can beat Apple on the girth.
     
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Mar 31, 2012, 12:57 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
... Our Android developer ...
So, what is it that you do? I work in a software team that is developing apps for iOS, Android and WP7.
     
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Mar 31, 2012, 01:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Godfather View Post
Making more SKU un-necessarily, caving to perceived market pressures, would make Apple and their userbase weaker by segmenting the market and increasing risk in material procurement.
What the user needs is a lighter iPad, not a smaller one necessarily. This will be done when OLEDs reach iPad specification.
Reasonable points but I tend to disagree.

Today I identify the large space between 3.5" and 9.75" as primarily market opportunity rather than perceived market pressure. However a couple of killer apps in the mid size could change the nascent market such that it became market pressure fairly quickly.

I agree the main issue is weight, but size also factors into the ability to stick it on a dashboard or carry it in a pouch on your belt, or in a purse.

-Allen
     
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Mar 31, 2012, 01:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
The iPad 2 is also a tad heavy. But I do feel a difference. I have both and am cycling between them right now. There is a noticeable difference. The thinness and lightness of the iPad 2 is very welcome. I hate this because the screen on the 3 is great... better than the 2 but the weight and girth increase really suck.

I'll say something else. Our Android developer got an Asus Transformer Prime. Wow! What a nice tablet. It's incredible. It looks gorgeous, feels incredible, the screen is amazing, it's fast, has 12 hour battery life, and is thinner and lighter than an iPad 2. Only problem is it takes a while to charge the battery. I won't leave iOS but I'm tempted. If you have a chance to demo one do it. Asus is coming out with the Retina version in a month or 2. Let's see if they can beat Apple on the girth.
Infinity Blade must be awesome in that form factor.
     
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Mar 31, 2012, 01:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by SierraDragon View Post
Reasonable points but I tend to disagree.

Today I identify the large space between 3.5" and 9.75" as primarily market opportunity rather than perceived market pressure. However a couple of killer apps in the mid size could change the nascent market such that it became market pressure fairly quickly.

I agree the main issue is weight, but size also factors into the ability to stick it on a dashboard or carry it in a pouch on your belt, or in a purse.

-Allen
There can't be two sustainable tablet sizes. The iOS developing universe would dilute to Android segmentation levels. If you feel that there aren't enough iPad ready applications, it would be worse with more sizes. Both iPad and iPad mini would cannibalize each other, as no one in their right mind would own three portable Apple devices.

Sales. Would. Tank.

I can see your angst from not being able to put your iPad in your dash and your belt pouch, but purses can hold an iPad. You just need to leave your chihuahua at home.

Another problem is the habit of reading, cutting in your sleeping time. If you are facepadding, that's a sign that you must put the ebook down, relax, and let the sandperson do its thing.
     
freudling
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Mar 31, 2012, 01:59 PM
 
Originally Posted by SierraDragon View Post
Reasonable points but I tend to disagree.

Today I identify the large space between 3.5" and 9.75" as primarily market opportunity rather than perceived market pressure. However a couple of killer apps in the mid size could change the nascent market such that it became market pressure fairly quickly.

I agree the main issue is weight, but size also factors into the ability to stick it on a dashboard or carry it in a pouch on your belt, or in a purse.

-Allen
You know... all you tweener people. The debate is over. Tweeners (color mutli-touch tablets ~7") have completely failed in the market, save for a couple. Having said this, what's "success" relatively in this category? The Kindle Fire is one of three "successful" 7" tablets. The other two are the Nook Color and the Samsung Galaxy Tab 7. However, "success" is a misnomer. The iPad is killing in the market, dwarfing how many the other guys sell.

Success for tweeners is relative. The Fire is not making Amazon any money. In fact, it seems to be a losing proposition. But just in terms of how many 7" tablets have sold in relation to every other one that has hit the market, the Fire, Nook, and Galaxy Tab have sold the most. But it still isn't saying anything at all. The amount of people who actually keep and use these tweeners is very low.

IDC and others will discuss all this marketshare but it's a confusing mess. They count marketshare in association with "shipped" products. That says nothing about customer sell through, retention, use, and non-returns. Nothing at all.

The marketshare based on real world use is such that iOS has 62% of the market.

The latest estimate for return rates for the iPad is 2%. The Kindle Fire as high as 25%.

Do I think tweeners are a total dead end? Not necessarily. The only way they will be useful in my view is if they become razor thin and light, with a tiny bezel and a super high res screen. Right now, they are fugly. Thick, big bezel, too heavy, etc. But even then, the bigger tablet will still win because they'd be razor thin, light, with a small bezel and super high res screen.

All Apple needs to do is make the iPad much lighter, razor thin, with a small bezel and tweener people will eventually shut up.
     
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Mar 31, 2012, 02:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Godfather View Post
Infinity Blade must be awesome in that form factor.
Haven't tried it. I'm sure he has. You should go check out the Prime, I really like it. The only other tablet I really like compared to the iPad. The rest are all pretty much junk.
     
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Mar 31, 2012, 02:10 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Godfather View Post
There can't be two sustainable tablet sizes. The iOS developing universe would dilute to Android segmentation levels. If you feel that there aren't enough iPad ready applications, it would be worse with more sizes. Both iPad and iPad mini would cannibalize each other, as no one in their right mind would own three portable Apple devices.

Sales. Would. Tank.
I don't get this argument. I seem to recall the same argument when Apple released the iPod Mini. IF Apple can support 3 laptop form factors and 4 iPod form factors, why wouldn't they be able to support multiple iPad form factors?
     
Wiskedjak
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Mar 31, 2012, 02:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
You know... all you tweener people. The debate is over. Tweeners (color mutli-touch tablets ~7") have completely failed in the market, save for a couple.
The same could be said about the 10" tablets; only a couple could be considered not failures.

Originally Posted by freudling View Post
Do I think tweeners are a total dead end? Not necessarily. The only way they will be useful in my view is if they become razor thin and light, with a tiny bezel and a super high res screen.
You mean, like if Apple made one?
     
SierraDragon
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Mar 31, 2012, 02:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by freudling View Post
You know... all you tweener people. The debate is over. Tweeners (color mutli-touch tablets ~7") have completely failed in the market, save for a couple.
No one has argued midsize is "better" than ~10" size; that is just you creating a straw man to argue against. What is it with your insistence on creating non existent "tweener people?"

Also I note that you are creating specificity for your tweener: color mutli-touch tablets ~7". I for one (strong advocate of Apple adding midsize choice) do not limit consideration specifically to just color mutli-touch tablets ~7" size. Intuitively IMO the opportunity for "midsize" is obvious, but as to defining how the mid size demand specifically should be served (size variances, color-b/w, resolution, features, prices), that I would leave to Apple's extensive market research.

Originally Posted by freudling View Post
The marketshare based on real world use is such that iOS has 62% of the market. The latest estimate for return rates for the iPad is 2%. The Kindle Fire as high as 25%.
Again: the argument is not iOS/iPad9.75 against the other guys' junk, duh. Nor is it whether or not Apple should have addressed midsize a year ago. The question is whether iOS/iPad-midsize would be a good product for Apple to add in addition to the ~10" size within the next year or so.

I say yes.

-Allen
( Last edited by SierraDragon; Mar 31, 2012 at 03:31 PM. )
     
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Mar 31, 2012, 03:26 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Godfather View Post
There can't be two sustainable tablet sizes. The iOS developing universe would dilute to Android segmentation levels. If you feel that there aren't enough iPad ready applications, it would be worse with more sizes.
I never said I thought that there were "not enough iPad ready applications." Far from it! What I say is that adding midsize choice can facilitate additional Apple tablet sales; enough to cost-justify the effort.

Both iPad and iPad mini would cannibalize each other...
Agreed cannibalization will occur, there is no doubt about that. Just like iPhone 4s sales are cannibalized by sales of the iPhone 3Gs and the iPhone 4 (and those are even all the same size). However

sales of ~10" iPad + sales of midsize iPad will be greater than sales of ~10" iPad alone.

...no one in their right mind would own three portable Apple devices.
Many people already own a ~10" tablet and also a smaller ereader size. But that is not the point, because we agree that cannibalization will occur. The thing is that many people do want to buy midsize, so Apple should service that demand.

Note that the enterprise market will be very, very large. And enterprise will buy product to suit specific usages, so yes enterprise will own three portable Apple device sizes.

While we are on enterprise, note that the benefits MS enjoyed with a generation of work-users learning MS-DOS variants at work, then buying MS for home use because that is what they knew from work also applies to whomever owns share in the enterprise tablet space. It would be really dumb to treat enterprise as an irrelevant niche as some have suggested.

There can't be two sustainable tablet sizes. ...Sales. Would. Tank.
We simply disagree. That logic says Ford should sell one car model, Apple should sell one iPod model, Samsung one tv size, etc.

I can see your angst from not being able to put your iPad in your dash...
You denigrate "in your dash" as a market, but that market is big enough that it supports many GPS-specific hardware vendors already. Why should Apple not incidentally also serve that market? And auto makers are already building cars to suit idevice needs, why not make a size that the likes of GM, BMW, etc. could even build-in if they want to?

...and your belt pouch...
The pouch point is about IMO very very important commercial/enterprise usages. Lots of people carry tools around in pouches now:
Engineers
Inspectors of all kinds
The construction trades
Equipment repair people
Firefighters
Cops
Project managers
Delivery people
Military
Security personnel

And new categories of pouch users as tablet apps develop:
Retail sales people (like at the Apple Stores)
Shoppers
Persistent readers
Inventory managers
Travelers
more from new tablet apps...

-Allen
( Last edited by SierraDragon; Mar 31, 2012 at 03:46 PM. )
     
Spheric Harlot
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Mar 31, 2012, 04:29 PM
 
And none of those, except for travelers and "shopper" (wth? do you mean just ordinary people not at work?), are in markets that Apple has explicitly catered to, ever.
     
lpkmckenna
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Mar 31, 2012, 07:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by The Godfather View Post
There can't be two sustainable tablet sizes. The iOS developing universe would dilute to Android segmentation levels.
That's a ridiculous assertion. Have you even read the thread?

The 7" iPad would have the exact same resolution as the iPad 1 and 2, and the exact same software would run without needing modification.
     
Spheric Harlot
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Mar 31, 2012, 07:07 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
The 7" iPad would have the exact same resolution as the iPad 1 and 2, and the exact same software would run without needing modification.
I believe THAT is a ridiculous assertion, if you've read the thread.
     
SierraDragon
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Mar 31, 2012, 08:13 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
And none of those, except for travelers and "shopper" are in markets that Apple has explicitly catered to, ever.
You make my point. A very large conglomeration that Apple has not explicitly catered to but can do so now that the iPad market they established has matured to where it is now.

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot
"shopper" (wth? do you mean just ordinary people not at work?)
By shopper I was referring to folks who seek coupons, groupons, price comparisons ("what does it cost on eBay?") and the like as they shop. Folks who care to have their idevice alert them to a deal on aisle 6 (not me!).

The beauty of the current iOS model is that Apple does not have to specifically service each of those groups. Apple only needs provide the SDK and the midsize hardware and tens of thousands of individual developers will service the many market segments.
( Last edited by SierraDragon; Mar 31, 2012 at 08:21 PM. )
     
SierraDragon
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Mar 31, 2012, 08:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by lpkmckenna View Post
The 7" iPad would have the exact same resolution as the iPad 1 and 2, and the exact same software would run without needing modification.
It could certainly have the same pixel dimensions, but different resolution and pixel density; and there are some (readily doable) software modifications necessary.

-Allen
     
Spheric Harlot
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Mar 31, 2012, 08:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by SierraDragon View Post
You make my point. A very large conglomeration that Apple has not explicitly catered to but can do so now that the iPad market they established has matured to where it is now.
Apple is perfectly happy selling each and every one of them an iPad for home use.

Calling that particular market "matured" is about five, maybe ten years premature.
     
SierraDragon
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Mar 31, 2012, 08:44 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot View Post
Calling that particular market "matured" is about five, maybe ten years premature.
Of course the market is still in growth stage, not mature. What I said was "matured to where it is now" and what I meant by that is that the tablet market has been (a) successfully redefined by the iPad introduction and (b) is now large enough and well established enough for cost-effective product differentiation within the iPad line.

The growth stage is when innovators can take risk and grab market segment share that pays off in the future. Apple is perfectly positioned to do that. With all Apple's cash, to not be aggressive now (as some here suggest) would be really dumb - - and Apple management is not dumb.

-Allen
( Last edited by SierraDragon; Mar 31, 2012 at 08:51 PM. )
     
 
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