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How do I turn the awful sound during power on OFF ? Anyone ?
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trip
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May 23, 2005, 01:33 PM
 
How do I turn the awful sound during power-on OFF ? Anyone ?
It's so very annoying.
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monkeybrain
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May 23, 2005, 01:45 PM
 
Only way is mute your Mac before you turn it off. There probably is a way, but it's not recommended since the sound signifies that the Mac is working OK.
     
ManOfSteal
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May 23, 2005, 01:51 PM
 
It's annoying? Interesting perspective. I only hear it once every few months....
     
alphasubzero949
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May 23, 2005, 02:20 PM
 
Why do people feel the need to shut down Mac OS X so often?
     
eevyl
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May 23, 2005, 03:18 PM
 
You can plug in some earphones before turning it on, that way the sound will go throw those and will probably be near muted.
     
trip  (op)
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May 23, 2005, 03:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by ManOfSteal
It's annoying? Interesting perspective. I only hear it once every few months....
hmm... I never thought about it. I turn it off whenever I am done. I could just leave it on I guess.

I wonder if it's better for the hardware longevity to keep it on or turn it off regularly ?
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Mr. Blur
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May 23, 2005, 03:52 PM
 
another question that gets asked/answered quite frequently.

there is a utility called TinkerTool System that does all sorts of things, including muting the startup chime. while the chime doesn't bother me, this util is *very* handy for running maintenance scripts etc etc etc and is well worth the 7€ it costs.
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cla
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May 23, 2005, 03:53 PM
 
Originally Posted by eevyl
You can plug in some earphones before turning it on, that way the sound will go throw those and will probably be near muted.
I don't think that'll work (anymore). At some point, the audio-out got software controlled.
     
Briareus
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May 23, 2005, 04:02 PM
 
Not that you should be hearing the startup chime that often, but if you have external speakers (as most people do or should), just mute them.

Now for dealing with the odd "empty trash sound"...
     
Geobunny
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May 23, 2005, 04:03 PM
 
How many people use the built-in speaker(s) on their Mac? I've got a Quicksilver tower and although the speaker is quite good, I still choose to use externally powered speakers - they afford far greater range, control and accuracy of volume adjustment.

Another benefit is that you can turn off the external speakers while you press the computer's power button - hey presto, no sound.
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LightWaver-67
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May 23, 2005, 04:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by trip
hmm... I never thought about it. I turn it off whenever I am done. I could just leave it on I guess.

I wonder if it's better for the hardware longevity to keep it on or turn it off regularly ?
I am under the impression due to "advice" I've been given in the past, that is better to just leave the machine up & running. I actually tell energy saver to "never" spin-down my drives. I was told that the constant powering on & off of drives is more hazardous than just letting them stay spinning 24/7. My monitors will "sleep" after 30-min. The upside to not sleeping the drives, is when I come in my office first thing in the a.m. and move the mouse... I immediately get my login-prompt and my system is ready to use.

When I experimented "sleeping" my computer (drives & all) I was slightly annoyed by:
a) Time for all of my internal & external drives to spin-up and mount before I could use computer.
b) Some externals occasionally would NOT mount properly and I'd have to unplug FireWire and power-cycle the drive(s). (numerous times on occasion, that was a pain).
c) None of my active apps would be up-to-date: Meaning... it would have to go retrieve new mail messages, no incoming IMs would have been accepted, etc.


I don't "know" that there is truth to whether or not spinning down & up the HDs for every sleep cycle or shut-down/restart cycle is BAD for them... I am NOT giving it out as advice... just repeating what was told to me. If anyone can confirm or deny this claim, I would be interested to hear about its credibility.

Thanks.
     
mikelauder
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May 23, 2005, 04:05 PM
 
Hold down the mute key as you boot the computer. That way you don't need to remember to mute it before you shut down.
     
eevyl
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May 23, 2005, 04:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by cla
I don't think that'll work (anymore). At some point, the audio-out got software controlled.
It should still work, there is not much software involved around in time of the start up sound, just the firmware checks of RAM, GPU and logic board, if the tests are OK the chime beeps. It doesn't even touch the HD, it's all in the firmware.
     
jay3ld
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May 23, 2005, 06:02 PM
 
the start up sound doesn't bother me. i leave both macs and the windoze running 24/6 (i am not home on saturdays.. Parties ) and when i hear that start up sound it just to me tells me that its working
though the only thing i hate is some reason on my mac A when i log in the sound will just go from being really low to super high. then after msn messenger logs me in and i get about blown out of the room when the message pops up telling me new mail.
i have to run a log in script from the apple script that turns the volume down to 2 so it dont happen. wish i didnt have 2
     
msuper69
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May 23, 2005, 11:36 PM
 
I swear if it wasn't for the occasional OS update, I would forget what the startup sound was.

But I like it as it is part of the Mac culture. Nothing else like it.
     
legacyb4
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May 24, 2005, 12:06 AM
 
Agreed.

The Macs have had awesome startup sounds since the beginning; beats the heck out of the sterile beep of a x86 machine starting up...

Originally Posted by msuper69
But I like it as it is part of the Mac culture. Nothing else like it.
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leperkuhn
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May 24, 2005, 12:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by alphasubzero949
Why do people feel the need to shut down Mac OS X so often?
i was hardcore into not shutting my computer down for a long time. unfortunately i have to keep my computer in my room (small apartment) and i have a mirror drive door g4 which even with the replacement fan and power supply is insanely loud. I wish i had tools to measure this, it actually bothers my left ear as i'm using it right now..

so i shut it off when i sleep, or it keeps me awake. i set it to wake up at 9:30 am and I don't even need an alarm clock it's so loud. (even w/ no startup chime). And I've slept through fire alarms in college.

and that's why i shut down every night. bah.

oh yeah, and when i put it to sleep it crashes.
     
I was David B.
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May 24, 2005, 07:26 AM
 
Originally Posted by trip
hmm... I never thought about it. I turn it off whenever I am done. I could just leave it on I guess.

I wonder if it's better for the hardware longevity to keep it on or turn it off regularly ?
It is better for the hardware to keep it on because temperature cycling means that electronic parts age faster.
It is like with a car: If you drive a lot and don't let the engine cool down your car might run for 600,000 miles (taxis, busses). If you shut down the thing after 10 miles every day it might break down at 100,000.

Two exceptions: The backlight of you display should be turned off after a while and the hd should spin down over night. Moving parts always wear out (the bearings of the drive - although the fluid dynamic bearings of the new drives may be very solid).
     
MacMatt
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May 24, 2005, 10:33 AM
 
Originally Posted by trip
How do I turn the awful sound during power-on OFF ? Anyone ?
It's so very annoying.
I use this Pref Pane app(freeware) and have had no problems on an MDD 1.25GHz(single CPU) running OS 10.4.1:http://www5e.biglobe.ne.jp/~arcana/index.en.html

Matt
     
eevyl
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May 24, 2005, 10:52 AM
 
Ouch, I have to chime in to say that muting completely the startup beep can confuse tech support if you ever need it.

After some testings the issue would be discovered, but at first a Mac that doesn't chime graciously after pressing the power on button is a candidate for hardware failure.
     
ghporter
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May 24, 2005, 12:02 PM
 
While hardware used to have problems with powering on and off that was years and years ago. There is NO PROBLEM with turning your Mac off on a regular basis. And remember, it uses less electricity when it's off than when it's asleep (it DOES use electricity when it's asleep!).

Both power cycling and thermal cycling were problems many years ago, but modern parts (like since 1995 or so...) are far more robust than that. For example, the data sheets for a common Hitachi 60GB laptop drive, their Travelstar 60GH, don't even list a "Mean Time Between Failures" value. However this drive has a "recommended power-on hours (monthly)" of 333 hours-which is just short of 14 days total. Electronic equipment is BUILT to turn on and off.

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analogika
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May 24, 2005, 12:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by legacyb4
Agreed.

The Macs have had awesome startup sounds since the beginning; beats the heck out of the sterile beep of a x86 machine starting up...
It was a plain beep until the Mac II (1987)
     
Luca Rescigno
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May 24, 2005, 12:15 PM
 
I second the StartupSound.prefpane suggestion. Just do a Google search for that and you'll find it. The reason being that the Mac mini, for some reason, insists on playing the startup chime at full volume through the internal speaker, regardless of whether it's muted or there are headphones plugged in or not.

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May 24, 2005, 12:18 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter
While hardware used to have problems with powering on and off that was years and years ago. There is NO PROBLEM with turning your Mac off on a regular basis. And remember, it uses less electricity when it's off than when it's asleep (it DOES use electricity when it's asleep!).

Both power cycling and thermal cycling were problems many years ago, but modern parts (like since 1995 or so...) are far more robust than that. For example, the data sheets for a common Hitachi 60GB laptop drive, their Travelstar 60GH, don't even list a "Mean Time Between Failures" value. However this drive has a "recommended power-on hours (monthly)" of 333 hours-which is just short of 14 days total. Electronic equipment is BUILT to turn on and off.
So... are you saying that it is "okay" for all of my external drives to be power-cycled on a daily basis...? THAT is my main concern.
     
analogika
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May 24, 2005, 12:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter
While hardware used to have problems with powering on and off that was years and years ago. There is NO PROBLEM with turning your Mac off on a regular basis. And remember, it uses less electricity when it's off than when it's asleep (it DOES use electricity when it's asleep!).
It ALSO uses electricity when it's switched off.

The difference between sleep and power off appears to be about 5W on modern machines.

chances are quite high that your VCR in stand-by mode uses more than twice what your Mac uses when it's asleep.

-s*
     
ghporter
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May 24, 2005, 01:14 PM
 
Originally Posted by LightWaver-67
So... are you saying that it is "okay" for all of my external drives to be power-cycled on a daily basis...? THAT is my main concern.
It is statistically unlikely that there will be any perceptable difference in performance or longevity of ANY modern computer part or peripheral due to turning it on and off on a daily basis. The best advice I've ever heard on the subject is to turn the computer off if you're not going to be using it for a period of hours-while you're at work and overnight are two particularly apt times.

Originally Posted by analogika
It ALSO uses electricity when it's switched off.

The difference between sleep and power off appears to be about 5W on modern machines.

chances are quite high that your VCR in stand-by mode uses more than twice what your Mac uses when it's asleep.
You're quite right. Western culture's love of "instant on" technology costs billions of dollars and contributes millions of tons of carbon to our atmosphere every year. Considering the wonderfully quick start up of a modern Mac, particularly as compared to a similar-performing PC, the reasons to never turn off a Mac seem to me to boil down to not caring what impact the power use of an unused computer has on the planet. And the apparent attitude about "instant on" contrasted with the traditional Mac owner's concern about Earth just confuse the gravy out of me.

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hotani
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May 24, 2005, 01:40 PM
 
Funny, the sound on my mommyboard went out and I had to get a card. It was bad enough that I had to unplug the internal speaker so I wouldn't hear constant static. Now I never hear the startup "chime." I kinda miss it.
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May 24, 2005, 02:12 PM
 
Sleep the machine, you'd never hear the chime unless you had to reboot for an OS update or so...

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May 24, 2005, 04:37 PM
 
Originally Posted by analogika
It was a plain beep until the Mac II (1987)
Yeah, but not these days. Turning on a modern Mac is so much cooler sounding than a modern PC.

Originally Posted by Briareus
Not that you should be hearing the startup chime that often, but if you have external speakers (as most people do or should), just mute them.
Actually, at least from my experience with the new iMac G5's, the built-in speakers still sound at startup even with externals attached! (This is for analog... dunno about digital.) Of course with most other Macs this isn't true and the sound always comes through the externals only.
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May 24, 2005, 07:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter
<snip>Considering the wonderfully quick start up of a modern Mac, particularly as compared to a similar-performing PC, the reasons to never turn off a Mac seem to me to boil down to not caring what impact the power use of an unused computer has on the planet
That's a rather sweeping generalisation, is it not? I do care about the planet and the reason for my computer being on 24/7 is far from what you suggest. Even if the thing started up instantaneously, I would still leave it on permanently. I'll only change my ways when we see a return of the ability to save sessions (remember the laptops which could "save contents of RAM on shutdown") so that when I switch on my computer I have the exact same windows and applications open (same RAM and processor state etc) as I did when I switched it off. The time that the computer takes to start up is negligible compared to the time it takes to get my work-flow back up and running.
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I was David B.
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May 25, 2005, 06:23 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter
Electronic equipment is BUILT to turn on and off.
I don't agree.
The conducting lines become smaller and smaller in todays chips. Temperature cycling means that microscopic metal-semiconductor interfaces with slightly different heat expansion coefficients physically expand and shrink their sizes. What is no problem for macroscopic conductors can damage wires with sub-micron diameters.
     
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May 25, 2005, 07:20 AM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter
You're quite right. Western culture's love of "instant on" technology costs billions of dollars and contributes millions of tons of carbon to our atmosphere every year. Considering the wonderfully quick start up of a modern Mac, particularly as compared to a similar-performing PC, the reasons to never turn off a Mac seem to me to boil down to not caring what impact the power use of an unused computer has on the planet. And the apparent attitude about "instant on" contrasted with the traditional Mac owner's concern about Earth just confuse the gravy out of me.
I certainly care about the planet, and my reason for sleeping my Mac is that I was under the impression that starting it up everyday uses more power than sleeping it over night. Am I correct?
     
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May 25, 2005, 07:46 AM
 
Personally I never even sleep my machine, I just leave it on 24/7.

Folding, ya see?

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May 25, 2005, 10:35 AM
 
Macs have a nice start up sound, Silicon Graphics have nice start up and shut down sounds, PCs have nothing… oh well, the headphones thingy is all you need
     
ghporter
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May 25, 2005, 10:40 AM
 
Originally Posted by Geobunny
That's a rather sweeping generalisation, is it not? I do care about the planet and the reason for my computer being on 24/7 is far from what you suggest. Even if the thing started up instantaneously, I would still leave it on permanently. I'll only change my ways when we see a return of the ability to save sessions (remember the laptops which could "save contents of RAM on shutdown") so that when I switch on my computer I have the exact same windows and applications open (same RAM and processor state etc) as I did when I switched it off. The time that the computer takes to start up is negligible compared to the time it takes to get my work-flow back up and running.
You seem to fit into my generalization pretty well. You use kilowatthours of electricity because you say you don't want to have to open your apps and arrange them to where they were before. Couldn't you script things to open where you want them? How much effort would that be?

Originally Posted by I was David B.
I don't agree.
The conducting lines become smaller and smaller in todays chips. Temperature cycling means that microscopic metal-semiconductor interfaces with slightly different heat expansion coefficients physically expand and shrink their sizes. What is no problem for macroscopic conductors can damage wires with sub-micron diameters.
You're implying that advances in microconductors have not been closely followed by substrate advances. This is incorrect; you simply cannot produce a viable circuitboard that has such tiny runs without making sure the board itself has similar thermal expansion properties. The same is doubly true in chip fabrication.

Originally Posted by monkeybrain
I certainly care about the planet, and my reason for sleeping my Mac is that I was under the impression that starting it up everyday uses more power than sleeping it over night. Am I correct?
Your impression is based on the same urban legend that it takes more electricity to start a florescent lamp than to run it 24/7. Maybe this was true many years ago, but any equipment you buy today (or in the last decade) takes only a small extra amount of power to start up. In other words, the power needed to start your Mac is noticably LESS than the power needed for it to sleep.

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cgc
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May 25, 2005, 11:38 AM
 
My startup chime is off, I reinstalled since I disabled it and it hasn't returned. The program I used was http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/23141 Enjoy!
     
Geobunny
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May 25, 2005, 08:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter
You seem to fit into my generalization pretty well. You use kilowatthours of electricity because you say you don't want to have to open your apps and arrange them to where they were before. Couldn't you script things to open where you want them? How much effort would that be?
If I could script it, I would. But oh for a life so simple that it could be scripted! Unfortunately, when I finish with the computer for the night, it is never in the same state it was the previous night...or indeed any other night prior to that. Scripting is simply not an option - what I need to keep from one day to the next are application STATES (ie open documents I'm currently working on, sections of selected text/items, undo states, which windows are on which virtual desktop and so on) not purely which applications are open.

Oh, and another important reason which I forgot last time - my computer is also a file and print server.
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analogika
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May 25, 2005, 09:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter
You seem to fit into my generalization pretty well. You use kilowatthours of electricity because you say you don't want to have to open your apps and arrange them to where they were before. Couldn't you script things to open where you want them? How much effort would that be?
wow. the sheer monotony of using the exact same documents, and reading the exact same webpages, every single day!, just boggles the mind.
     
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May 26, 2005, 09:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by Geobunny
Oh, and another important reason which I forgot last time - my computer is also a file and print server.
Are you saying that your computer serves files 24/7? And that deep in the middle of the night someone is likely to need to print to your printer? Your complaints about "application states" don't seem realistic. Is it THAT hard to reopen the documents you need? Come on!

My previous post about your documents assumed that you had some set of apps that you performed some work with-say a database and a spreadsheet that needed regular updates or that gave you work assignments. Scripting those to open and run on start up makes sense. However, I really don't see the major issue with opening your documents after a restart...are there hundreds of documents you NEED to have open constantly? What is it you do with all of them?

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trip  (op)
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May 26, 2005, 09:25 AM
 
Originally Posted by cgc
My startup chime is off, I reinstalled since I disabled it and it hasn't returned. The program I used was http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/23141 Enjoy!
That worked perfect. Thanks.
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Geobunny
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May 26, 2005, 06:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by ghporter
My previous post about your documents assumed that you had some set of apps that you performed some work with-say a database and a spreadsheet that needed regular updates or that gave you work assignments. Scripting those to open and run on start up makes sense.
With that sort of thing, of course I agree. I have numerous things in my startup items eg ICQ, iChat, Eudora...

However, I really don't see the major issue with opening your documents after a restart...are there hundreds of documents you NEED to have open constantly? What is it you do with all of them?
Pretty much, yes I do need to have them open constantly. I use my computer to do many many different things at once:
Virtual Desktop (VD)1: General web browsing
VD2: Email, ICQ, iChat, various Terminal windows with SSH sessions to clients, the office, and local machine work
VD3: BBEdit with HTML files open for my current web development project along with an SFTP client at the appropriate directory for uploading said HTML files
VD4: Photoshop for images in use with VD3 and VD5
VD5: Xcode and Interface Builder for constantly ongoing work with clamXav
VD6: Finder desktop

Apart from the fact that undo states are absolutely vital for virtual desktops 3 and 5, it'd take me a very very long time to get that lot set up every time start up my computer.

My parents' computer, which is used for web, email and occasionally AppleWorks gets shut down after each use and is only switched on as needed. It's also set to shutdown automatically at 10pm if no-one's using it.
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ghporter
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May 26, 2005, 07:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Geobunny
Apart from the fact that undo states are absolutely vital for virtual desktops 3 and 5, it'd take me a very very long time to get that lot set up every time start up my computer.
Wow! You really DO seem to need to put your computer to sleep instead of turning it off. You are, as far as I've experienced, the first person to have such a reason to keep his Mac on or sleeping 24/7. My attitude in my earlier posts was from the other folks-they complain "It's too much trouble to get Safari back where I want it," or similar such nonsense. If I offended you with that attitude, I appologize.

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May 26, 2005, 08:01 PM
 
Excellent...
     
   
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