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pbook28 · Nov 22, 2004, 02:54 PM

I am looking into getting an airport express. My question is: Do I need a base station to use the airport express to connect to the internet, or will it work without one?

aaanorton · Nov 22, 2004, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by pbook28:
My question is: Do I need a base station to use the airport express to connect to the internet,...?

No.

audvidsvs · Nov 23, 2004, 08:37 AM

The express is an Airport Base Station!

ghporter · Nov 23, 2004, 08:45 AM

Any information you might need about capabilities, functions, etc. of the AirPort Express you can find in one of two places: by reviewing the posts in this forum, and by going to Apple's pages/knowledgebase articles on the AE.

The entire point of the AE is that it IS a wireless base station. I haven't been able to confirm this, but I think it uses the house wiring as an antenna, which bodes well for coverage. It also has extra circuitry that makes it useful as an iTunes media server.

One extremely important item: when you configure this or any wireless access point, use a cable to connect to the box while you're configuring it! Sometimes you can get away with configuring a wireless box over wireless, but most of the time it's MUCH better/quicker/easier to do it with a cable.

aaanorton · Nov 23, 2004, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by GHPorter:
I haven't been able to confirm this, but I think it uses the house wiring as an antenna, which bodes well for coverage. It also has extra circuitry that makes it useful as an iTunes media server.

Where did you hear this? This is the 1st time I've seen anything like this, so I'd be interested in reading more.

One extremely important item: when you configure this or any wireless access point, use a cable to connect to the box while you're configuring it!

Normally I'd agree with you on this, but it is not the case with the Airport Express. In fact, you are required to set it up wirelessly, as it has no LAN port. Moreover, you must connect to it wirelessly directly from your computer's Airport card. You can't connect your computer to an Airport Extreme base via ethernet and then set one up from there. In other words, you must have an Airport card (or the like) to set one up.

ghporter · Nov 23, 2004, 05:24 PM

"I think it uses the house wiring for an antenna."

Originally posted by aaanorton:
Where did you hear this? This is the 1st time I've seen anything like this, so I'd be interested in reading more.

This is theory on my part; it's supposed to have much better coverage than the other AirPort base stations, doesn't have any visible antenna, and it is very small, so it makes sense to use the biggest radiator you can find in a house-the wiring. Complete speculation on my part. Maybe I've started a rumor that will cause Apple to step in and explain it to us all... Nah! Won't happen.

"You should connect to it with a cable to configure it."

Normally I'd agree with you on this, but it is not the case with the Airport Express. In fact, you are required to set it up wirelessly, as it has no LAN port. Moreover, you must connect to it wirelessly directly from your computer's Airport card. You can't connect your computer to an Airport Extreme base via ethernet and then set one up from there. In other words, you must have an Airport card (or the like) to set one up.

That's what I get for not paying close attention. I don't have an AirPort Express-don't need one at this point-and I haven't done my homework. Mea culpa! As you point out, it is an exception, since configuring the vast majority of wireless boxes via wireless is unreliable to say the least.

tooki · Nov 24, 2004, 02:12 AM

Even though this very question was asked a bazillion times when the darned thing came out, and the sticky threads answer this question, AND there's another sticky that says "No more AirPort Express threads", this one's so full of crap that I need to reply.

1. The AirPort Express does not use the AC wiring as some sort of antenna. Basic radio theory dictates that a longer antenna does NOT improve reception; the correct length antenna is the best one. For 2.4GHz, a very small antenna is appropriate.

2. As for the claim that the AirPort Express must be configured wirelessly, for it lacks a LAN port:

Let's look at an AirPort Express unit, shall we?

See where it says "10/100 BaseT Ethernet -- Intelligent port for connecting to DSL or cable modems or a local network"? I think that that last part there means that it does in fact function as a LAN port. Of course, this is exactly how the original graphite AirPort Base Station worked, and it could be configured to be WAN only, LAN only, or both at once.

In conclusion, I will say what has been said the aforementioned bazillion times: the AirPort Express is a full-fledged wireless router that can also be configured to be a wireless repeater instead.

tooki

aaanorton · 01:50 PM

tooki,
Feel better? Nothing like a mod who goes around insulting users and picking fights in threads that are completely civil, useful and interesting.

Originally posted by tooki:
Even though this very question was asked a bazillion times when the darned thing came out, and the sticky threads answer this question, AND there's another sticky that says "No more AirPort Express threads", this one's so full of crap that I need to reply.

The AXP thread confusion is solely your problem. You made the stickies, set a mandate and enforced it only sometimes. Certain threads would get locked, others wouldn't. Regular users, such as myself, had no idea when to reply to new AXP threads and when not to, due to your fickleness (it's important to note here that the only real losers in this deal were the users looking for help who never got any replies). I also don't think your sticky arrangement is the best solution for this problem. Not all questions fit in one of the threads and one only, and the length of the sticky threads is daunting to some people who want to come to a forum and do what people do in forums: ask a quick question.

1. The AirPort Express does not use the AC wiring as some sort of antenna. Basic radio theory dictates that a longer antenna does NOT improve reception; the correct length antenna is the best one. For 2.4GHz, a very small antenna is appropriate.

Thanks for clearing that up. And thank you GHPorter for suggesting this clearly stated theory to begin with. Not many people are willing to voice their ideas as such (for fear of unjust criticism from people who are unwilling or unable to participate in open discussions).

2. As for the claim that the AirPort Express must be configured wirelessly, for it lacks a LAN port:

Let's look at an AirPort Express unit, shall we?

Gimme a break...

See where it says "10/100 BaseT Ethernet -- Intelligent port for connecting to DSL or cable modems or a local network"? I think that that last part there means that it does in fact function as a LAN port. Of course, this is exactly how the original graphite AirPort Base Station worked, and it could be configured to be WAN only, LAN only, or both at once.

In conclusion, I will say what has been said the aforementioned bazillion times: the AirPort Express is a full-fledged wireless router that can also be configured to be a wireless repeater instead.

Ya, well I thought this would be the case as well, but was not able to config mine wired or through my Extreme base. Maybe I did something wrong? Could be, but that's (again) exactly what forums such as this are for: discussion and problem solving.

tooki · Nov 25, 2004, 12:37 PM

You're right, aaanorton... I was aggravated when I wrote that, and came off too strong.

Let's try again:

1. The AirPort Express does not use the AC wiring as some sort of antenna. Basic radio theory dictates that a longer antenna does not improve reception; the correct length antenna is the best one. For 2.4GHz, a very small antenna is appropriate. (It's something along the lines of 4", which need not even be extended in a straight line.)

2. The Ethernet jack on the AirPort Express unit is a dual-function port like the one on the original graphite AirPort Base Station, which could be configured to be WAN only, LAN only, or both at once. AirPort Express behaves the same. (See attached image.)

Though this question has been asked and answered repeatedly before (and a search would have gotten you an answer sooner), yes, the AirPort Express is a full-fledged wireless router that can also be configured to be a wireless repeater instead.

tooki

ghporter · Nov 25, 2004, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by tooki:
1. The AirPort Express does not use the AC wiring as some sort of antenna. Basic radio theory dictates that a longer antenna does not improve reception; the correct length antenna is the best one. For 2.4GHz, a very small antenna is appropriate. (It's something along the lines of 4", which need not even be extended in a straight line.)
tooki

I agree that an ideal quarter wave dipole antenna for 2.4GHz would be in the neighborhood of 4" long, but we're not talking about an ideal radiation field; I looked at the little box, pondered a bit, and came up with my idea.

At the power level any wireless base station is working at, you don't need an ideal antenna, and with the appropriate coupling devices, you can terminate into any length radiator.

The fact that the house wiring is throughout the house, that it goes through a sufficiently inductive device (the electric meter at the power entrance) to isolate it from the rest of the local grid, and that unintentional radiation through house wiring is responsible for a lot of interesting and unpleasant issues from noisy local TV reception when the freezer kicks on to blowing up items that are plugged in during a lightning storm, makes me think that this is at least a viable direction to investigate.

So where IS the antenna on an AX?

tooki · Nov 25, 2004, 11:30 PM

Like every other Apple AirPort product, the antenna is internal.

tooki

ghporter · Nov 26, 2004, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by tooki:
Like every other Apple AirPort product, the antenna is internal.

tooki

Thanks. That would logically make it a patch type dipole (very efficient in both radiation and space), but considering that it will usually be installed near the floor, it may have an impact on useful radiation patterns. I wonder how they handled that...

Anyway, since the AE base is offered with an external antenna port, I wonder whether or not they're going to offer that eventually.

Thanks again, Tooki.

tooki · Nov 26, 2004, 10:56 PM

Well, I think that for the average user, the couple of feet difference won't really matter.

tooki

Parky · Nov 27, 2004, 08:47 PM

Originally posted by GHPorter:
Thanks. That would logically make it a patch type dipole (very efficient in both radiation and space), but considering that it will usually be installed near the floor, it may have an impact on useful radiation patterns. I wonder how they handled that...

Anyway, since the AE base is offered with an external antenna port, I wonder whether or not they're going to offer that eventually.

Thanks again, Tooki.

The AE Base Station does not have an external antenna port, where did you get that idea from?

Ian

audvidsvs · Nov 27, 2004, 09:19 PM

The AE Base Station does not have an external antenna port, where did you get that idea from?

Ian

Mine sure has an antenna connector!

Parky · Nov 28, 2004, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by audvidsvs:
The AE Base Station does not have an external antenna port, where did you get that idea from?

Ian

Mine sure has an antenna connector!

The confusion here I think arises because I think we have different meaning for 'AE'

As this thread was about about the Airport Express - I took AE to mean that.

I presume you have an Airport Extreme base station and they do have antenna ports.

Ian

audvidsvs · Nov 28, 2004, 08:59 AM

In my case you are correct.
I should have realized that.
My AE(airport extreme base station)has a connector but my airport express does not.

These are starting to sound like acronyms from the military.

tooki · Nov 28, 2004, 11:32 AM

IT is rife with stupid acronyms.

In an MIS (management information systems) class I took, there was some acronym that occurred twice. Rather than renaming one to something else... no, they numbered them. So it was something like MRS I and MRS II. Yeah... because I and II say SO MUCH to the person trying to remember which is which!

tooki

aaanorton · Nov 28, 2004, 12:47 PM

Yay, good ole' tooki is back! (sorry, haven't checked this thread in a bit)

I'd like to suggest the following, as they have worked for me:
AXT = AirPort Extreme Base
AXP = AirPort Express

tooki,
Have you been able to set up an AXP via ethernet? Not connect and make changes to one, but set it up from factory defaults. I was (surprisingly) unable to do so. I understand that the ethernet port is "smart" (in fact I use mine as a LAN port to connect a web cam). It's possible I didn't spend enough time on it, but it didn't seem to want to take.

inchhigh · Nov 28, 2004, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by aaanorton:
Have you been able to set up an AXP via ethernet?

I'm not sure, but I think if you are configuring an airport express via ethernet, you need to use the Airport Admin Utility, not the Airport setup assistant.

I seem to remember when I was configuring mine, that the Airport Setup Assistant would only see the Airport Express after i enabled my Airport card, but I found out later that if I ran a wire directly from my powerbook to the Airport Express I was able to configure it using the Airport Admin Utility.

I think apple may have changed this in the new 6.1 upgrade though. I just launched Airport Setup with my Airport Card turned off to check and it gave me a warning about Airport not being on, Click OK if you would like to change these settings, or Skip if you would like to configure AirPort Base Stations using ethernet. so maybe now you can use either, but if you are having problems seeing the airport express via ethernet from the setup assistant, give the Admin Utility a try.

good luck,
iH