[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by el chupacabra 

The ban doesnt apply to LPR's

Your post makes it sound as if that was President Trump's initial intention. It was not.

No, the executive order did initially apply to green card holders, a fact that wasn't just wide criticized (including by conservative commentators and even the Koch brothers). Within 24 hours several federal courts ordered stays to temporarily lift the ban on green card holders, and the White House followed suit by declaring that the EO doesn't apply to green card holders after all.

[el chupacabra]

Well thats why we have checks and balances in government. That all happened pretty fast.
It's all going to be ok

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

Why were Obama's wonderful but Trump's are signs of a dictatorship? Only a few people ever said a damned thing about Obama's abuses and 95% of the MSM swept it all under the rug and now they decide to go ape sh*t.

This is an instance where it isn't about the narrative.

Obama changed the game to grant himself wishes. By doing so he granted the same power of wishing to future presidents. This should be the highly principled reason that people complained about him doing it, which they did. It wasn't a question of only the few super smart geniuses who saw what was bad about it though, it was the fact that most of the same people had been complaining non-stop about every single detail of his presidency and his life since his first day in office (and lets face it, mostly just because he was black). Combine that with the Republicans doing nothing but blocking government from doing its own job of actually governing and the bulk of his supporters were able to easily ignore the warnings from those who cried wolf and easily accept the ends as justifying the means.

Obama used wishes because he had no other choice and he used them almost entirely to do good and fair and reasonable things. Trump is using them as a first resort to undo good things and to do bad things. The fact he warned everyone he was going to do those bad things in advance is neither here nor there. That only reflects on the poor quality of those that voted for him.

Trump is demonstrating why it was a bad idea for Obama to let the cat out of the bag, though given everything else about him so far, I see no reason to assume that Trump couldn't and wouldn't have assigned himself the same wishing powers even if Obama never had.
Those who had a problem with Obama doing what he did for the right reasons, should still have a problem with Trump doing the same/infinitely worse.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by el chupacabra 

Well thats why we have checks and balances in government. That all happened pretty fast.
It's all going to be ok

Except for the people who signed away their rights under duress.

[The Final Dakar]

https://apnews.com/93ce3efb4ee3409ca...&utm_medium=AP

A federal judge in Los Angeles has ordered the U.S. government to allow people holding immigrant visas from seven majority-Muslim nations into the United States despite President Trump's executive order banning them.

In a temporary restraining order issued late Tuesday, Judge Andre Birotte Jr. ordered the government not to cancel any validly obtained immigrant visas or bar anyone from the seven nations holding them from entering the U.S.

But it was unclear whether the order will have any effect. The State Department ordered all visas from the seven countries revoked on Friday, and the government has maintained that orders similar to Birotte's do not apply because the visas are no longer valid.

Shitshow.

...and that's before we see if they defy the courts.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by el chupacabra 

Well thats why we have checks and balances in government. That all happened pretty fast.
It's all going to be ok

You are conflating several things here: yes, the constitutional antibodies are working to some degree, but it wasn't misinformation or incorrect — the Trump Administration was forced to change its stance. That doesn't completely alleviate all pain points, e. g.
- the draft was sketchy and not all relevant parties (DHS, etc.) were involved,
- the status of people who were apparently tricked into forfeiting their green cards is not clear,
- it is not clear whether people with a valid visa are allowed to enter,
- and there still seem to be no exceptions for people who risked their lives helping the US military.

[subego]

Imam Disputes Man's Claim That Mom Died Due to Travel Ban - ABC News

Al-Hussainy told the AP that the woman actually died on Jan. 21 or 22 and that prayers were said for her at the Karbalaa Islamic Educational Center in Dearborn. Al-Hussainy said he learned she died then by members of his mosque and from posts on the family's Facebook page.

WhoopsieDaisy.gif

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

Obama averaged 35 a year, less than Bush or Clinton.

Again, no one mentioned the number of EOs, only their scope and application.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

My apologies if you said this before, but what Obama EOs were not last resorts after attempting to work with congress?

"Last resort", aka. "The ends justify the means." When you open that door, don't be surprised when things you don't like follow.

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

"Last resort", aka. "The ends justify the means." When you open that door, don't be surprised when things you don't like follow.

But is that a good reason not to condemn the bad things that follow?

[Chongo]

Muslim ban?
CNEWA - Travel Ban Forces Erbil Archbishop to Postpone Visit to U.S.

U.S. President Donald Trump’s executive order on immigration, issued last Friday, is hitting close to home.

The Chaldean Catholic Archbishop Bashar Warda of Erbil has been forced to postpone a visit to the United States that was scheduled to begin this week.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Muslim ban?
CNEWA - Travel Ban Forces Erbil Archbishop to Postpone Visit to U.S.

I see you've given up defending your original argument.

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

You're changing the argument again. You're arguing with the label rather than addressing the differences noted between the two actions.

But to address this new, ridiculous spin, it's called collateral damage or unintended consequences. It's why conservatives usually rail against poorly thought out regulations.

[Chongo]

Nope. Trump is using Obama's pen and phone by using the Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 that Obama signed into law.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Nope. Trump is using Obama's pen and phone by using the Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 that Obama signed into law.

Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 was attached as a rider to a "must pass" omnibus spending bill and did not create an outright ban on entry into the U.S. from designated countries.

It also didn't only pick countries with whom President Obama wasn't personally doing business.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Nope. Trump is using Obama's pen and phone by using the Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 that Obama signed into law.

That's still not the argument. You're arguing the instrument and we're arguing the technique.

[andi*pandi]

We have already pointed out the false equivalence many times, and he doesn't read or doesn't care.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

We have already pointed out the false equivalence many times, and he doesn't read or doesn't care.

And this is why politics and religion make a terrible mix. When people start treating politics as religion where new information and perspective poses a threat, you head towards brainless partisanship.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

But is that a good reason not to condemn the bad things that follow?

You think they're "bad things", but the fact remains that the Left is still refusing to take responsibility for allowing themselves to be in this position in the first place. Instead of rationally saying, "We ****ed this up, let's fix this in a bipartisan way before it gets out of hand" they're electing to do this:


REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

That's only going to get more votes for the Repubs next go around.

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

You think they're "bad things", but the fact remains that the Left is still refusing to take responsibility for allowing themselves to be in this position in the first place.

Of course, its always the victim's fault with you isn't it? They probably shouldn't have worn a skirt that short.

[Paco500]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

More insightful reporting from Reuters/AP.

[The Final Dakar]

Former Norwegian Prime Minister held for questioning at Dulles Airport | WJLA

Now that's what I call a shitshow

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

Of course, its always the victim's fault with you isn't it? They probably shouldn't have worn a skirt that short.

It's always victimhood with you SJW types, isn't it, even Obama is now a victim. Unreal.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by Paco500 

More insightful reporting from Reuters/AP.

Another insightful reply from the bottom of the Leftist stack.

[Paco500]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

Another insightful reply from the bottom of the Leftist stack.

Zinger!

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Bazaam!

[The Final Dakar]

Kelly: I should have delayed travel ban - POLITICO

Secretary of Homeland Security John Kelly said Tuesday he should have delayed President Donald Trump’s executive order temporarily banning travel to the United States from seven Muslim-majority countries. And he blamed himself for failing to consult with Congress.

“In retrospect, I should have, and this is all on me, by the way, I should have delayed it just a bit so I could talk to members of Congress… to prepare them for what was coming,” he said during a hearing of the House Homeland Security Committee.

“The thinking was to get it out quick so that potentially people that might be coming here to harm us would not take advantage of some period of time they could jump on an airplane and get here,” he said.

Falling on the sword for Trump?

[andi*pandi]

"Please sir, let me lie down underneath this bus."

[The Final Dakar]

Looks like the ban will be stayed a little longer.




Someone's taking it well.

[Chongo]

Trump will issue a new XO

[subego]

XO makes it sound like hugs and kisses.

[BadKosh]

But it was OK when Obama did it.. What changed?

[P]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Looks like the ban will be stayed a little longer.




Someone's taking it well.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it slightly odd to announce "see you in court" after losing a court case? I mean, trashtalk about appeals and SCOTUS if you like, but "see you in court"?

[...deleted...]

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by subego 

XO makes it sound like hugs and kisses.

More hugs and kisses is what Muslim refugees need

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by And.reg 

This sound like him?

https://www.16personalities.com/estp...and-weaknesses

What exactly are you trying to say here?

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Chongo 

Trump will issue a new XO

That seems like the logical thing to do as I think that'd be quicker than going through the courts. This assumes it's actually vetted this time.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

But it was OK when Obama did it.. What changed?

But that's NOT what Obama did.

The travel part of Trump’s order does target the same seven countries that were singled out with a law Obama signed in December 2015.

The Obama-signed law contains provisions that restrict travel to the United States for people who lived in or visited Iran, Iraq, Sudan, or Syria since March 2011. They must have a visa to enter the United States; they can’t use what is known as the Visa Waiver Program, which allows 90-day U.S. visits to other foreign visitors.

The law was soon expanded by Obama’s Department of Homeland Security to cover Libya, Somalia, and Yemen. They were identified in the agency’s announcement as "countries of concern," a phrase used in the law.

The law that Obama signed said that ANYONE who had recently lived in or visited those 7 nations were unable to utilize the Visa Waiver Program and were therefore required to go through the vetting process necessary to obtain a valid visa. It was not a blanket travel ban on anyone from these countries and it certainly was not described as a Muslim ban on the campaign trail.

OAW

[OAW]

Originally Posted by P 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it slightly odd to announce "see you in court" after losing a court case? I mean, trashtalk about appeals and SCOTUS if you like, but "see you in court"?

It's not "a court case". It's "TWO court cases". And it's more than "slightly odd". It's like someone getting KTFO in two boxing matches and then turning around and saying "See you in the ring!" WTF?

OAW

[subego]

But the scoring is like in Quiddich, where only one snitch actually counts.

[andi*pandi]

Another downside of the travel ban, is that tourism is down, when it had just begun to recover from 9/11 levels.

Trump’s travel ban is causing a large drop in US tourism - The Boston Globe

Online booking websites reported that flight searches from international points of origin to the United States were down anywhere from 6 percent to 17 percent since Trump signed the executive order on Jan. 27.
....
“The US is in danger of taking the same path it took after Sept. 11, which led to a decade of economic stagnation in the travel and tourism sector,” said David Scowsill, president and CEO of the World Travel & Tourism Council. “Strict visa policies and inward-looking sentiment led to a $600 billion loss in tourism revenues in the decade post 9/11.”

and

In the weeks since Trump’s executive order was issued, the website Hopper found that flight searches to the United States were down 17 percent compared with the last three weeks of the Obama administration.

The decline rippled to nearly every region of the world, with the exception of Russia and Eastern Europe.

Tourism is big business.

[The Final Dakar]

I'm about safety over money but this does put the GOP in an interesting position - if the affected people are their constituents.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

Another downside of the travel ban, is that tourism is down, when it had just begun to recover from 9/11 levels.

Trump’s travel ban is causing a large drop in US tourism - The Boston Globe

Wow, that's some shitty journalism (not surprising these days). The drops are from European countries due to a tumbling Euro.

Honestly, how much longer can these outlets survive telling outright fabrications like that?

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by Cap'n Tightpants 

Wow, that's some shitty journalism (not surprising these days). The drops are from European countries due to a tumbling Euro.

Honestly, how much longer can these outlets survive telling outright fabrications like that?

Well the ones you reference most often have been doing it for years. That said, it doesn't usually fly with the left so either they won't last long or its not as fabricated as you make out.

[Cap'n Tightpants]

Completely fabricated. People don't vacation overseas when their currency is shit, unless they simply have so much money that the poor exchange doesn't matter.

Face it, they've told so many lies and half-truths about Trump that the public doesn't believe them anymore. There are enough real issues with the guy, there's no need to make shit up, but the MSM does it anyway and now their credibility is shot to hell.

[Waragainstsleep]

I think the problem is the public's attention span, not the media's credibility.

Actually I'm not even sure thats right. The Brexit campaigners here lied at every single turn, their supporters heard one or two exaggerations from the retainers and tried to claim that everyone was lying, but they weren't listening in the first place. This has been true in the US even longer with many claiming the GOP and the Dems are all as bad as each other when clearly this is far from the case.

[andi*pandi]

The article states that the trend is noticed everywhere except Eastern Europe and Russia. Lots of other places tourists come from where the Euro isn't a factor. Asia. Africa. Middle East. (!) But if you think the Euro is related... why is the Euro tumbling? The timing is a coincidence?

One thing about the article I will agree on is that it is speculation. Downturn in searching for flights does not necessarily result in fewer vacations, but is only a possible indicator. So we can wait and see.

[BadKosh]

People don't know what to think when they listen to the MSM these days. Are they lying now? WHY did they lie to us before. Why did they leave out x? Why do we have to hear their opinions? Why are they interviewing x? Why are they trying to explain what X said, when its obvious they aren't telling us the truth?
Some folks won't believe ANY of their BS. Others are still clinging to the hope they aren't being lied to or manipulated. Does make it hard.

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by BadKosh 

People don't know what to think when they listen to the MSM these days. Are they lying now? WHY did they lie to us before. Why did they leave out x? Why do we have to hear their opinions? Why are they interviewing x? Why are they trying to explain what X said, when its obvious they aren't telling us the truth?
Some folks won't believe ANY of their BS. Others are still clinging to the hope they aren't being lied to or manipulated. Does make it hard.

I wish everyone was thinking that hard about what they read/hear/see.
Sadly its more a case of "Does that agree with what I already think?" and little more than that.

[andi*pandi]

The MSM does a better job than one-sided conservative blogs who spew disinformation like it was a bubble machine. Start a new thread for a discussion about FACTS, and the people who are scared of them, who is trying to cover things up, and how we can agree on what is really fact?

[Laminar]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi 

The MSM does a better job than one-sided conservative rags who spew disinformation like it was a bubble machine

This makes it sound like you're pitting the mainstream media against conservative viewpoints, which is probably only going to confirm what many Trump supporters want to believe. Conservative news sources are a part of the mainstream media.