[ScotHamedia]

Help with monitor decisions.

I am getting 4 MacMini's for a client. These are office workers, however, the owner is a bit demanding. She owns a new imac 20", and likes the display.

I am suggesting to not spend the money on 4 Imacs, for using internets and office apps and email.

They all have old g3 imac 17" machines, which have displays that even at 100% brightness are barely readable in my opinion.

I found the Dell E248WFP, which has a great price.
The Apple 24 is just too much money, and I have had bad luck with Apple displays, all the way back to the 4000.00 I spend on the first cinema, the 3000 I spent on the second, and the 2500 or so on the thrid, I am just not doing it again. They may be 800 now, but they get pink often.

I have seen the Dell 24 ultrasharp in action, and it is better than the Apple stuff in my opinion.

How does the Dell E248WFP compare to the iMac 20, who makes the internals, what it 'TN'?

The thing is, they are so darn cheap, and need only be pretty good, I just can not find a store that has them in stock to look at. I can order one and test it, and if it sucks, return it I suppose.

Anyone here know a lot about mointors? Keep in mind, real-estate is key here, color accuracy, while somewhat important, is not what they do. I do not want brown showing as red, but I can always calibrate it.

Suggestions on the best 24" for around 300 to 400? Or rebid this for a more expensive display?

[MichiganRich]

You sound pretty well versed here. I'm 39, a pro retoucher, and not a forum kiddy. Buy the UltraSharp Dells in whatever size you want, and you will not be disappointed. I could go on and on, but they are simply the best most reliable values in the LCD market.

I've owned 3 of them at the $400-500 price point (19", 20", 20" wide) and they never gave me a single problem. The image quality provided strong resale value as well, so consider me a fan.

I use Apple 23's at work, but they don't care how much they cost and they just want them to be on the same PO as the computer for less paperwork. I just have to live with them being pink-ish on the left 1/3rd.

[mduell]

The E248WFP is no Ultrasharp, but it's fine for office work. TN is twisted nematic; it refers to the way the LCD panel is constructed. The downsides to TN panels are viewing angle and the percentage of color gamut they cover, but they're quick and cheap.

[ScotHamedia]

Originally Posted by MichiganRich 

You sound pretty well versed here. I'm 39, a pro retoucher, and not a forum kiddy. Buy the UltraSharp Dells in whatever size you want, and you will not be disappointed. I could go on and on, but they are simply the best most reliable values in the LCD market.

I've owned 3 of them at the $400-500 price point (19", 20", 20" wide) and they never gave me a single problem. The image quality provided strong resale value as well, so consider me a fan.

I use Apple 23's at work, but they don't care how much they cost and they just want them to be on the same PO as the computer for less paperwork. I just have to live with them being pink-ish on the left 1/3rd.

Thanks Rich, I actually used to work in pre-press, 15 years, started on the high end Barco stuff, moved into other weird brands. I did color correction for Pixar and a few others when they outsourced it. I also scanned on Scitex drums and the like, so I do have some background, it is just 10 years old :-)

Are there UltraSharps in the 22-24 range that are 400 or so? Coupon codes, deals etc? How much am I stepping down by not going with an UltraSharp? I wish there was a store I can check this out at. I am going to try BedtBuy today, and while they may not have dell, I can look at similar tech.

What does UltraSharp mean from a specification standpoint?

[mduell]

Originally Posted by ScottHaneda 

Are there UltraSharps in the 22-24 range that are 400 or so? Coupon codes, deals etc? How much am I stepping down by not going with an UltraSharp? I wish there was a store I can check this out at. I am going to try BedtBuy today, and while they may not have dell, I can look at similar tech.

What does UltraSharp mean from a specification standpoint?

24" UltraSharps are $700 (so $600 with the usual coupons); 22" are the same res as 20", so you may as well get the 20" ($400 less coupon).

UltraSharp is just a marketing name to denote Dell's better line of LCDs. They use IPS or PVA panels, have more (gobs) of inputs, better stands, card readers, etc.

To get an idea of the difference between a TN panel and a PVA/IPS panel, find the cheapest 20 or 24" display you can at Best Buy; it should be a TN panel. Now find a display the same size that costs 50-100% more; it should be a PVA panel. To see an IPS panel, go find the Apple section and look at a Cinema Display.

[MichiganRich]

I'm surprised this thread hasn't been hijacked by morons yet. As usual, mduell has reasonable and sound advice. I think the better LCDs are worth the premium, as they are easier on the eyes.

Why do they need 24's?... that size is ahead of the value peak at this point, and you're going to pay an extra chunk for the good ones.

[MichiganRich]

p.s.- even the value-priced Dell displays are excellent bargains. Not quite as pleasing on the eyes as the USharps, but they fit the bill for biggest at lowest cost. You couldn't really go wrong.

I would think twice about being tempted by the big box store displays. You're going to wind up with last years model, or a little smaller than you wanted, or paying a bit more than you could have. Every time.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by mduell 

24" UltraSharps are $700 (so $600 with the usual coupons); 22" are the same res as 20", so you may as well get the 20" ($400 less coupon).

UltraSharp is just a marketing name to denote Dell's better line of LCDs. They use IPS or PVA panels, have more (gobs) of inputs, better stands, card readers, etc.

Actually, the 20" Dell UltraSharp is more expensive than the 22" Dell UltraSharp:

Dell : DELL UltraSharp 2007WFP 20-inch Widescreen Flat Panel LCD Monitor with Height Adjustable Stand : Displays : Home & Home Office

Dell 22" Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor

The reason seems to be that the 20" is an S-IPS, whereas the 22" is a TN despite being an UltraSharp, according to this site. So apparently not all of the UltraSharps are S-IPS or PVA.

So in this case, I'd say the 20" would be the higher-quality monitor if you were going for a Dell. Same resolution, but wider viewing angle and Color Snob Approved™ (although with a slower response time).

[TravisReynolds]

if she really likes the apple's screens. And you don't want her to spend that much money. Then just look online like ebay or the refurbished section of the apple store

[mduell]

Originally Posted by CharlesS 

Actually, the 20" Dell UltraSharp is more expensive than the 22" Dell UltraSharp:

The reason seems to be that the 20" is an S-IPS, whereas the 22" is a TN despite being an UltraSharp, according to this site. So apparently not all of the UltraSharps are S-IPS or PVC.

Augh, that's really annoying. I don't recall the previous generations being like that.

[CharlesS]

Actually, a new model seems to have popped up since yesterday, surprising enough. This is a 20" UltraSharp that is about $110 cheaper than the 2007WFP I linked to before, so it's probably a TN panel. Therefore, my earlier comment about the 20" not being TN may not be completely accurate anymore.

Dell 20" Widescreen Flat Panel Monitor

I spent a bunch of time last night searching everywhere, and I cannot seem to find any 20-22" panels anywhere that are not TN, other than Apple's 20" Cinema Display and the Dell 2007WFP. There's plenty of discontinued models by Samsung that were S-PVA, and some discontinued NECs that were IPS, but they've all been replaced by TNs. Dell is probably doing the same. Perhaps the time to get that Dell 2007WFP is right now before it gets axed in favor of the 2009W, which may be its replacement.

Of course, I've never be able to compare a TN panel and a PVA/IPS panel side by side (and it's unlikely I'll ever get to do so, since it's looking increasingly unlikely that I'll ever see a non-TN panel in an electronics store). Is the difference really as great as people online say it is?

[ginoledesma]

Aside from the Dells, you might want to take a look at the Samsung LCDs. The latest 6 series are what's in the market (e.g. 20" = 206BW, 22" = 226BW"), but the older 4 and 5 series should still be available and at good deals. They don't have as many inputs as the high-end Dell LCDs, but it has DVI/VGA which is more than enough for the typical office setup. But since you were considering the Dell E series, then they should be in the same league. I'm pleasantly happy with the TN panels used by Dell/Samsung.

Others that I considered in the past (for bang for the buck) were those made by Benq. There's one guy who did a test of 3 different 24" monitors -- might be an interesting read for you.

[OreoCookie]

The difference between TN and more expensive panel types (SIPS, MVA, PVA) is very noticeable, if you care. If you do anything that requires good colors, forget about TN displays. Period. Even three-year-old non-TN panels beat TN panels when it comes to that. TN panels are cheaper and faster (relevant for gamers and video buffs), though.

If I were you, I'd give the choice to the client: make a suggestion with cheaper TN panels, tell her about it, and a suggestion with more expensive monitors. It's her choice and she won't blame you if she goes for the cheaper version. Tell her that the iMac uses the more expensive panel type

[ginoledesma]

The August 2007 20" iMac models were TN (LG/Philips LM201WE3-TLF1). The rest were mostly S-IPS (with the newest 24" being H-IPS I believe).