[MacosNerd]

So I have a job interview monday, and to be honest, I'm wondering if this is a smart move.
I mean with the slowing economy and all. Its not like I have tons of time/seniority built up at my current gig (1 year). I typically don't jump from job to job either The new job is in the the IT division, for a retail sector company.

Anyone want to chime in on this, my current job has slowed down quite a bit and I'm not as busy as I'd like to be (hence the sometime frequent postings here). This prospect may should help keep my skills marketable salary is probably going to be similar to what I make now.

[nonhuman]

I wouldn't change jobs unless I was moving up a rung in the ladder and/or a pay grade (or if it was some amazing opportunity doing something I really wanted to do).

[mindwaves]

I don't mean to derail this thread, but I am in a very similar position. I have been offered a new job with substantially higher pay and bonus except the title of the job is lower. However, the title will change next year upon me passing this one exam. I believe that I will like the job, but I dislike having a lower title.

To continue with the thread, I say if you don't see any future in your job, then switch right away. No use beating a dead horse. Just apply and interview. During the interview, ask about the company and see what you can get. Never hurts to try.

[Dork.]

It depends on your field, of course, but I would consider the title of the job to be at or near the bottom of my list of considerations. Different places use different titles, anyway. What is more important is what type of responsibility your job entails, and whether or not those responsibilities are in line with what you are expecting and what you think you could handle. If your employer promises more responsibility after a period of learning, hold them to it, and if they don't give it to you simply ask them why -- their reasons may be legitimate, and if you improve yourself after getting that feedback they may be even more impressed in your abilities.

I changed jobs last year, and a major reason I did it was to keep my skills marketable (and keep them marketable here in Rochester, NY, which is no small feat right now.) I got a salary bump, but when you take into consideration the fact that I moved from a big company to a small company with fewer benefits, the net effect of the move was not any different than I would have gotten had I stayed at my old job with their existing raise structure. But I feel that after working here for a few more years, I will be much better positioned to find my next job. (And I like working here, and can see myself staying for longer than a few years if circumstances permit.)

Be careful if you end up bouncing from job to job after only a year or two in any one place. This can be a red flag for some employers. At the very least, expect to be asked about it in any interview and give a good answer. (In fact, everyone should have a good answer to the question of "Why are you thinking of leaving your current job?", since it will come up in the interview.)

The only other word of advice I can give is to take a good look at your new boss before making the decision to change jobs. The wrong boss can make a good job a living hell, and the right boss can make a less desirable job fun and interesting. In my case, my old boss was wonderful but the people who were running my projects were not, and being a low-level supervisor in a big company my boss did mot have much power to affect change.

[mindwaves]

Originally Posted by Dork. 

It depends on your field, of course, but I would consider the title of the job to be at or near the bottom of my list of considerations. Different places use different titles, anyway. What is more important is what type of responsibility your job entails, and whether or not those responsibilities are in line with what you are expecting and what you think you could handle. If your employer promises more responsibility after a period of learning, hold them to it, and if they don't give it to you simply ask them why -- their reasons may be legitimate, and if you improve yourself after getting that feedback they may be even more impressed in your abilities.

You make a very valid point. Thanks.

I will be doing substantially the same job as before except that I would additionally be mentoring/teaching people with less experience than me. This is what I like doing. It is almost managerial.

To continue with the OP, consider that your job or company may be cyclical. Having little work now may mean more work tomorrow.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by mindwaves 

I don't mean to derail this thread, but I am in a very similar position. I have been offered a new job with substantially higher pay and bonus except the title of the job is lower. However, the title will change next year upon me passing this one exam. I believe that I will like the job, but I dislike having a lower title.

I've always told people they can call me the janitor as long as they give me interesting things to do and pay me decently. If nothing else, you'll be able to put on your resume, "JANITOR — In this position, I managed the entire marketing department and raised revenues by $5 million."

[Powerbook]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

I wouldn't change jobs unless I was moving up a rung in the ladder and/or a pay grade (or if it was some amazing opportunity doing something I really wanted to do).

Or at least medium-term getting *there* the position to do so / get so(!). Having fair supervisors helps a lot to have a path for the next 3 to 5 years.

Regards
PB.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Powerbook 

Or at least medium-term getting *there* the position to do so / get so(!). Having fair supervisors helps a lot to have a path for the next 3 to 5 years.

Regards
PB.

Agreed, although that sort of situation can be risky. I definitely know people who have taken a job with the promise that they would get a promotion within x months, only to have that promotion never materialize.

On the other hand, I would probably take a demotion an a pay cut for a job in your home town if only so that I can be assured of my Maß of Bier at work every day.

[MacosNerd]

For me the job is a lateral step up, if that makes sense. I'll be jumping back in to development and doing some DBA work both of which I enjoy and miss doing. I'll also be doing some of my sys admin stuff for servers which I do now. Because the new shop is small I get to do more varied tasks which is a good thing.

The economy is scaring me the most, not because I have tons of seniority where I'm at now but because I'm heading into the retail sector which is more sensitive to the economic conditions.

Nothing is set, and the interview is monday so I'm not trying to get ahead of myself but I am contemplating various what ifs.

[osiris]

It sounds like you're stable but incredibly bored. Welcome to the club.
Imo I think that stable is a good place to be in this economy - if you switch now, you run a higher risk of being laid off first at the new place. I'd wait until after the elections. Just my 2.00003 cents.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by osiris 

It sounds like you're stable but incredibly bored. Welcome to the club.
Imo I think that stable is a good place to be in this economy - if you switch now, you run a higher risk of being laid off first at the new place. I'd wait until after the elections. Just my 2.00003 cents.

Why would the elections make any difference?

[osiris]

Elections can influence markets, in this case I believe a positive change will bring with it a positive swing in the economy.

[MacosNerd]

I disagree, waiting for after the elections to get a job makes no sense. Yes the election will influence markets but not to an extent that will save jobs from being cut or cause jobs to be cut.

[osiris]

Originally Posted by MacosNerd 

I disagree, waiting for after the elections to get a job makes no sense. Yes the election will influence markets but not to an extent that will save jobs from being cut or cause jobs to be cut.

Okay then, good luck.

[MacosNerd]

Originally Posted by osiris 

Okay then, good luck.

Thanks, like I said in the prior posts I'm trying not to get ahead of myself. its not like have a job offer in hand but by the same token, it would be foolish of me not consider the risks/rewards now.

Being a Christian I take a perspective the Lord as the best for me and I've been praying that an oppratunity would open up. Low and behold one did and now I need to take the next step.

[Zeeb]

If you have a family to support, a mortgage or other long term financial commitments I would be more likely to be conservative when making a decsion about whether or not to change jobs now.

However, if you're relatively free of such things I would say go for it. Why stay if you're job isn't working for you? From personal experience, its sometime more damaging to stay at a place that underpays you or where you're at a dead end. Also, it seems to me that most organizations really wouldn't hesitate to let you go if they decided employing you was not in their best interest.

That being said, you probably shouldn't make this a pattern on your work history unless you are in certain industries where it may be more normal. A good friend of mine who works in advertising repeatedly changes jobs after being at them less than two years and it has never hurt him in the least. Every time he switches jobs, he gets offered another $50K on top of what he was making at his prior employer. Unbelievable.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by mindwaves 

You make a very valid point. Thanks.

I will be doing substantially the same job as before except that I would additionally be mentoring/teaching people with less experience than me. This is what I like doing. It is almost managerial.

No doubt you should go for it.

I found that a title doesn't mean sh!t if you don't make certain ampounts of money.
Companies hadn out all kinds of job titles, so they mean nothing. Your actual responsibilities and earnings speak much more for you than a title.

The way you told the story, this is definitely a move UP for you, and you can sell it that way on a resume.

-t

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by MacosNerd 

So I have a job interview monday, and to be honest, I'm wondering if this is a smart move.

Only change the job if the majority of the following is trueL:

1) Your new job is more interesting / challenging
2) Your old job is boring (i.e., for the interview, you "maxed out you learing curve")
3) The new job pays more
4) The new job offers is in a better market sector - retail will suck for a while, so be careful
5) The new job offers better learning and development potential

I'd go for it if at least 3 hold true.

-t

[MacosNerd]

It's funny but I have a list that is similar:
1. Higher salary
2. Quality of life at home, i.e., work intervenes minimally during my home time
3. Quality of life at work, i.e., environment is good, people are good, stress levels, growth potential (gaining more responsibilities or doing different things) etc.
4. Commute
5. development potential, and market skills.

Let me clarify one statement. While I said I would be working in the retail sector, its not in stores but rather for a company that is dealer group for a network of retailers. I'll be in the IT department not handling sales so from that perspective its not sales

Number is a must, I'm not going to change jobs for the same (or lower) salary. Makes no sense to do that, especially when you consider number 4. This potential job (I'm only at the interview stage) will have a longer commute. I'll be driving for an hour as opposed to taking the subway for 45 minutes. That hour could be longer when you factor in traffic and I cannot forget the rising price of gas so that too must be factored in on the salary.

So that leaves #2, #3, #5. Right now it wouldn't be very hard for the new job to surpass those items over my current job.

Monday is the day so I'll have wait and see how this pans out. Since I have a family and mortgage I'm taking this decision very serious.

[MacosNerd]

Update

Had my interview, it lasted about 3 hours and I met everyone from the people I'll be working with all the way up to the CFO and executive vice president. Everyone there was great and the place looks to be a great place to work at. Lots of different disciplines will be involved. VB apps, .net, sql server DBA, server admin and eventually maybe network manager.

This of course makes my decision a lot harder as got some feedback that the interview was very positively received. The onus is quickly shifting to me, and for me to make a decision. I hate these life altering choices. Life is too hard and now I have a tough choice. I'm still waiting to here about the salary, if they come under what I need, then its a lot easier decision, I'll turn it down. No use in changing jobs for a longer commute and less pay. As it is, I'll now need to drive for an hour instead of take the subway for 45 minutes. Not sure about the evening commute, that might not be a good thing. I know some people who drive that route so, I'll ask them about the traffic.

[mindwaves]

I suppose that I should update my position also. I accepted the job and I cannot wait to start. Although the commute is much longer, I think that I will eventually move to that area. I have another job offer tomorrow though, but I had scheduled that in advance of the other interview. I guess that I have to interview there and not break any chains.

[MacosNerd]

Hey congrats, as you see by my posts. I'm in the same exact position though I don't think I'd be able to move closer - the wife and I would take a bath on selling our house.

Good luck

[-Q-]

Originally Posted by MacosNerd 

No use in changing jobs for a longer commute and less pay. As it is, I'll now need to drive for an hour instead of take the subway for 45 minutes. Not sure about the evening commute, that might not be a good thing. I know some people who drive that route so, I'll ask them about the traffic.

Don't forget that what they offer you isn't what you have to accept as the salary. Considering you'll be taking on more responsibility and some external stresses (commute, etc) providing a counter offer is to be expected. So if you do like the potential of this job, then tell them so, but also tell them where the salary needs to be in order for you to accept.

[mattyb]

As an aside, in the past few years, everyone I've come across (I'm an Oracle DBA) that works on these sorts of things : VB apps, .net, sql server DBA, server admin - has a Mac.

Best of luck.

[MacosNerd]

I opted to pull my name from consideration.
The initial salary range was 10k less then what I make now, never mind getting more money (while it was likely I'd get what I was asking for getting raises down the road may have been an issue). Couple that with the commute and increased cost of gas it was enough for me to come to the conclusion that my current job fits the bill better.

One of the issues that I kept worrying about is the drive home, while the traffic may not be horrendous I have heard of problems resulting from accidents and those problems cause the commute to go from one hour to four hours. Being that I have day care needs for my kids that was not an acceptable risk,

I really wish it worked out better because the opportunity being offered looked really exciting and something that I'd love to do but my family needs plus the cost of gas really made it a non-decision. One my co-workers who coincendently has a similar commute (45 minutes of driving) has given her notice because of the commute time and the gas cost.

I costed it out and I'd be spending 6k to 8k on gas alone - that's way too much when I spend only 40 bucks a month for a subway pass.

[turtle777]

Seems like a good choice given your circumstances.

-t

[mindwaves]

Originally Posted by mindwaves 

I suppose that I should update my position also. I accepted the job and I cannot wait to start. Although the commute is much longer, I think that I will eventually move to that area. I have another job offer tomorrow though, but I had scheduled that in advance of the other interview. I guess that I have to interview there and not break any chains.

I interviewed there and I am now stuck. Here is my situation:

Job1 pays 20% more than my current job with an easily obtainable bonus making it possible to achieve 40% more salary than my current job.

OR

Job2 pays 40% more than my current job with a soso bonus, but upon passing this relatively easy exam, I'll make 70% more than my current job.

I think that I would enjoy working at job1 more, but working at job2 would not be that bad at all also. Job1 also makes me somewhat of a boss managing and training people which I like, but job2 places me near the bottom of the corporate ladder (but with good pay however) in terms of rank. I know that I'll be learning more at job2 than job1. What to do(assuming relocation is not a problem, both places are within 1 hr of my house)

I know to go with the job that you would like more (job1), but the substantially higher pay of job2 and not so bad work environment screams consideration also.

[turtle777]

If job 1 has direct reports, it'll look much better on your resume. If you think you would enjoy it more, i'd go for it.

More pay is not really worth it, especially since you already get a nice bump with job 1. Don't bee too greedy and evaluate it only in terms of money. Learning more at job 2 seems to be more on the technical side of things. I wouldn't underestimate the learning experience having to manage people that you'd get from job 1.

-t

[mindwaves]

I agree with you turtle, but I'm an impatient person. Ideally, I would like to buy a house asap so I am eager for more money. I decided to play "hardball" and ask job1 for more money. I don't know what will happen, but if they decline, then I'll at least have job2 open.