[Macrobat]

Gee, I know I'm shocked!

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/webl...urrenders&only

Funny, all Chirac's rhetoric about how the conflict in Afghanistan was valid, and supportable.

What he really meant was "as long as we don't have to leave the safety of a secured zone, we'll support and look all "martial."

[marden]

Originally Posted by Macrobat 

Gee, I know I'm shocked!

lgf: Breaking: France Surrenders

Funny, all Chirac's rhetoric about how the conflict in Afghanistan was valid, and supportable.

What he really meant was "as long as we don't have to leave the safety of a secured zone, we'll support and look all "martial."

No one, and I mean NO ONE gives more meaning to the word dilettante than the French.

dilettante
noun
dilettantes, dilettanti
1. often derog
Someone who has an interest in a subject, especially art, literature or science, but does not study it very seriously or in depth.
Thesaurus: amateur, dabbler, trifler.

[moodymonster]

they've still got 1,100 in theatre and the ones being pulled out are Special Forces who've been there for years.

And the ones staying; it is likely they are forming a quick reaction force to deploy anywhere in A'stan.

As I understand it, the unit being withdrawn has been involved in some of the heaviest fighting in A'stan, against huge odds suffering losses and some soldiers tortured to death at the hands of the taliban.

So lay off the French bashing, it's boring and dishonourable to those that have been killed.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by marden 

No one, and I mean NO ONE gives more meaning to the word dilettante than the French.

Well, unless I'm mistaken, they did invent the term...

[moodymonster]

little excerpt of where the French have been fighting:

In one incident, the Paras were called to rescue Afghan troops and French Special Forces who had been ambushed by the Taliban.

They were flown in by Chinook helicopter, but when they landed, were stunned by what they saw. The ground was littered with the bodies of Afghan soldiers, while incoming bullets hit the helicopter.

"I could not believe we were going to charge off this helicopter into a wall of lead,' said one. "Not everyone wanted to get off. One guy actually defecated. He sat rigid with fear inside the cargo hold until we pulled him up and pointed him towards the door.

"We had to fire and manoeuvre across open ground for 200 metres. The scene was like a human abattoir. We fought off the Taliban but were too late to save the French guys. All of us were shaking when we were flown back to base. One of the Afghan survivors said the French had been tied up then gutted alive by the Taliban. It was one of the most shocking things I had ever heard."


There have been mixed reports about the Afghan National Army. However, one soldier described them as 'shockingly hard'. They have continued fighting alongside the British despite having members of their families killed by the Taliban. Some British soldiers have told their families back home that they fear they are going to die. But after the French atrocity, they say would rather be killed than captured.

War in Afghanistan: Britain's Vietnam | the Daily Mail

[Sky Captain]

This is why the Brits level an area.
Leave NOTHING alive.
They're ruthless. As they should be.

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by Macrobat 

Gee, I know I'm shocked!

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/webl...urrenders&only

Funny, all Chirac's rhetoric about how the conflict in Afghanistan was valid, and supportable.

What he really meant was "as long as we don't have to leave the safety of a secured zone, we'll support and look all "martial."

Are you talking about the country who has the most soldiers deployed overseas after the US?

[Spliffdaddy]

*after the US*

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy 

*after the US*

who is about 6 times larger.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Millennium 

Well, unless I'm mistaken, they did invent the term...

Touche'

[marden]

Originally Posted by moodymonster 

they've still got 1,100 in theatre and the ones being pulled out are Special Forces who've been there for years.

And the ones staying; it is likely they are forming a quick reaction force to deploy anywhere in A'stan.

As I understand it, the unit being withdrawn has been involved in some of the heaviest fighting in A'stan, against huge odds suffering losses and some soldiers tortured to death at the hands of the taliban.

So lay off the French bashing, it's boring and dishonourable to those that have been killed.

While we all honor the effort and recognize the skill and courage it takes to field a fighting force in this day and age and the losses they might suffer at the hands of the enemy, the will of THE PEOPLE is what we bash.

And if we laugh derisively at the French, who we call cowardly "surrender monkeys," get ready for the guffaws that await OUR turning tail.

Except that the laughter will stop five times a day.

When the Islamists are in prayer.

[Macrobat]

"Deployed" yes. In Lebanon, they're scared to patrol and keep the ceasefire terms after dark, and in Afghanistan, they're scared to leave the safety of the cities - yeah - their courage leaves me underwhelmed.

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by Macrobat 

"Deployed" yes. In Lebanon, they're scared to patrol and keep the ceasefire terms after dark, and in Afghanistan, they're scared to leave the safety of the cities - yeah - their courage leaves me underwhelmed.

says the big boy in front of his computer screen....

[Macrobat]

Sorry, Junior Bird Man, you're speaking to an ex-USAF Pararescue Specialist here (why don't you Google that?) so save your crap for someone you might be able to actually hang it on.

Please, tell us YOUR service record, so we can compare.

[moodymonster]

The troops leaving were part of OEF since 2001, and not part of ISAF. They were working under US command. As forces are transfered over to ISAF, the mission they were there for has disappeared, as has air support.

They were not staying within the safety of the cities, their bodies have been recovered from Helmand and Spin Boldak among others.

In addition the French have said they are willing to send their remaining 1,000+ troops into the more volatile parts of A'stan.

Most European countries at this time are operating under ISAF - whose mission is provide security for the areas they are in, not go Taliban hunting. Indeed some German soldiers have commented they feel like 'bad comrades' by the political restrictions placed on them.

[moodymonster]

But, I still don't like the French... but criticism of the SF troops in question is unwarranted.

Criticism of respective European gov'ts who are not allowing their troops a wider remit in A'stan however...

[Macrobat]

I do believe my initial criticism was of the French government's stand.

Funny, all Chirac's rhetoric about how the conflict in Afghanistan was valid, and supportable.

What he really meant was "as long as we don't have to leave the safety of a secured zone, we'll support and look all "martial."
__________________

[moodymonster]

your initial criticism is correct in terms of ISAF, but of the troops in the article, less so.

Whilst the French deserve ridiculing every now and again, most other countries' troops are just sitting there and open to the exact same criticisms.

The UK, US, Canada, Australia and a few others, like Estonia are doing more than their fair share of the fighting, if not almost all of it (outside SF units). Alongside the Afghan Army, of course.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Macrobat 

Sorry, Junior Bird Man, you're speaking to an ex-USAF Pararescue Specialist here...

WOW!

MAJOR PROPS, DUDE!!!



And I don't need to Google it!

When the debates go on about who is tougher, the SEALs, Green Beret or whoever, seldom does the debate consider who it is that is sent in to rescue those guys when they get in trouble.

The ones who have to have the same fighting skills, discipline, determination and ferocity as those they are sent to rescue...

Who have to have the advanced medical skills to perform life-saving measures under adverse conditions and while 1,000's of miles and maybe hours away from licensed physicians or surgeons...

Who have to be in top physical condition and above average strength and who are masters of electronic and other communications and physical rescue techniques specific to mountain, desert, snow, flood, ocean, hurricanes and more.

To fight like the best fighters. To save lives like doctors. To have the strength and endurance of two men. To have the courage to face the unknown and be prepared to master whatever might be for their fellow man.

And to WANT to do it?

I know the story of the Pararescue guys in Afghanistan. And even before that I remember watching the movie with Mickey Rooney (weren't they Air Force Pararescue?).

Thanks dude!

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by Macrobat 

Sorry, Junior Bird Man, you're speaking to an ex-USAF Pararescue Specialist here (why don't you Google that?) so save your crap for someone you might be able to actually hang it on.

Please, tell us YOUR service record, so we can compare.

Why is that supposed to impress me? you STILL are in front of your computer talking people who are actually there. Your past, as glorious it might be, is just that, past.

[Macrobat]

Yeah, and yours, as inglorious as it probably was, is that, plus boring.

Hate to break it to you, but I was "in harm's way" more than once in my career, can you say the same?

Until you can, that particular piece of sarcasm is not actually yours to fling.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Macrobat 

Yeah, and yours, as inglorious as it probably was, is that, plus boring.

Hate to break it to you, but I was "in harm's way" more than once in my career, can you say the same?

Until you can, that particular piece of sarcasm is not actually yours to fling.

Sorry it took so long. The secret committee had to convene a special holiday session just for this post.

Congratulations!

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Macrobat 

Sorry, Junior Bird Man, you're speaking to an ex-USAF Pararescue Specialist here (why don't you Google that?) so save your crap for someone you might be able to actually hang it on.

Please, tell us YOUR service record, so we can compare.

pwnt

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

pwnt

If you say so....

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by Macrobat 

Yeah, and yours, as inglorious as it probably was, is that, plus boring.

Hate to break it to you, but I was "in harm's way" more than once in my career, can you say the same?

Until you can, that particular piece of sarcasm is not actually yours to fling.

Not arguing your past, but it's not helping you a bit with the inanity of your comments in this thread, well except maybe with a few kids here.

[turtle777]

The PWL at its best

-t

[voodoo]

I don't get it. Why bash the French when we could be bashing Italians?

V

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

I don't get it. Why bash the French when we could be bashing Italians?

Or Spain

-t

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Or Spain

-t

Or Germany/USA

V

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by voodoo 

Or Germany/USA

Well, for obvious reasons, no

-t

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Well, for obvious reasons, no

-t

Ditto

V

[Macrobat]

Villalobos, catch a CLUE. You tried to insult me with your 'in front of the computer" BS. You got called on it. You have NOTHING to stand on here. Get real. you do NOT possess the moral high ground necessary - i.e - you served I didn't - to allow you to post that BS. Get over yourself. Because I served, you didn't. You do NOT have the right to day a DAMNED thing about what anyone posts as if you were ther - you were NOT.

The only way that stands is if you did something I did not- you - obviously - never came CLOSE, so STFU.

[villalobos]

Originally Posted by Macrobat 

Villalobos, catch a CLUE. You tried to insult me with your 'in front of the computer" BS. You got called on it. You have NOTHING to stand on here. Get real. you do NOT possess the moral high ground necessary - i.e - you served I didn't - to allow you to post that BS. Get over yourself. Because I served, you didn't. You do NOT have the right to day a DAMNED thing about what anyone posts as if you were ther - you were NOT.

The only way that stands is if you did something I did not- you - obviously - never came CLOSE, so STFU.

Hey I lived In Raleigh for a while. Really liked the place too.

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by Macrobat 

Yeah, and yours, as inglorious as it probably was, is that, plus boring.

Hate to break it to you, but I was "in harm's way" more than once in my career, can you say the same?

Until you can, that particular piece of sarcasm is not actually yours to fling.

So how many times have you worked with the French? Were you in harm's way with, or against them? What was your mission, and the mission of the French?

Or should we leave you to "stfu" and be content with this type of "high level" argumentation?

[Macrobat]

Perhaps you should take your own advice, Pendergrast. Yes, I have worked with the French, individually, they are good soldiers, just as most soldiers are - given the chance. Their chain of command sucks hard, makes moronic decisions, supplies them with shite for equipment and brings them down. NATO powers have joint exercises and have participated in joint operations on many occasions, some of both I have been a participant in. Against? Please point out when the USA ha been against France in hostilities. As far as specific misions, perhaps you would like to prove your security clearances before I answer (here's a hint, DA, PJ's are special forces members - most of what we do is classified)? Perhaps you should simply stfu and stay out of it?

Villalobos, the point is, that unless our positions suddeny became reversed, you have NO high ground from which to impune my courage, or ability - which is PRECISELY what you do when you post BS like "from in front of your computer." Obviously, it is you, not I, to whom that applies.

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by Macrobat 

Perhaps you should take your own advice, Pendergrast.

You are so emotional you can't spell my nick right.

Yes, I have worked with the French, individually, they are good soldiers, just as most soldiers are - given the chance. Their chain of command sucks hard, makes moronic decisions, supplies them with shite for equipment and brings them down. NATO powers have joint exercises and have participated in joint operations on many occasions, some of both I have been a participant in.

Some? And we should take that as a reliable opinion?

Against? Please point out when the USA ha been against France in hostilities.

Duh! of course there were none; but your supposed competence at judging everyone has to come from somewhere, right? That allowed me to make some sarcasm.

As far as specific misions, perhaps you would like to prove your security clearances before I answer (here's a hint, DA, PJ's are special forces members - most of what we do is classified)?

I think you are full of it with your attitude, whether you are right or wrong. As for your level of clearance, well excuse me for laughing hard while typing these words...

Perhaps you should simply stfu and stay out of it?

First use of "stfu" came from you, with nothing to sustain your point. As far as I am concerned, you have not proved through reliable argumentation that France's military forces are incompetent, or that you are able to make such an assessment.

For what I have seen so far is mostly hot air from you, Mac-o-brat.

[CRASH HARDDRIVE]

Oh shaaadap.

You opened your fat flap trying to sling crap and ended up with your ass handed to you. Take it in stride and slink off somewhere.

[analogika]

Quality Thread™.

[Macrobat]

My point? Get a life.

My point is that he, Villalobos, has never served in ANY military capacity, yet feels free to impune my personal courage.

Then you jam your proboscis into the discussion and attempt to make it a debate. I think you should simply examine your own motives and stfu. It does not now, nor did it ever, concern you.

I do not HAVE to "sustain my opinion" since you have NO idea what my opinion IS, obviously. You are simply trying to have the argument YOU want to have while remaining BLATANTLY clueless.

Here's a clue for you: I NEVER made the claim that France's military is incompetent, that is the rather moronic assumption YOU made based on the fact that it is not mentioned ANYWHERE in this thread - sort of like Kerry's "Bush joke."

I suggest you enroll in some remedials and learn to actually THINK before typing, so you don't come across NEARLY as myopically uninformed as you have managed to in this thread.

As a postscript: My "level of clearance" is TS/SCI. Which stands for Top Secret, Special Compartmental Information, which means I was privy to information above the merely Top Secret. It is a required level of security clearance for the task which I had to perform. Your (non)answer lends proof to the fact that you are (yet again) woefully uninformed, but still feel you can vocalize an "argument" even when your "arguemnt" has NOTHING to do with the discussion at hand. Again - STFU.

Gee, I made a typo in your nick - that TOTALLY invalidates anything I have to say - right? LMFAO

Here's a primer: The only thing impugned in this thread was the French government's will (reiterated a second time in the thread, also - and you missed it) and my personal courage. I answered to both, you created a non-existent argument and proceeded down that tangent.

Please feel free to comment on things in the PWL you actually have any inkling of an idea what they are and leave the rational discussions to the people actually equipped to do so.

[villalobos]

I ain't gonna comment much more but just say that you should reread moodymonster post a little earlier in the thread.

[Blasphemy]

macrobat completely burned you all

[Sky Captain]

*makes note*
Don't compare service records with the 'Bat.
I was just a lowly C-130 airlift pilot.
When we flew into hostile terriroty(hot zone) it was comforting to know that the para-rescue fellas would come immidately for us. As usually we were unarmed. Other than my service revolver.(yes I was issued a Smith and Wesson Model 15 and not a Beretta)

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by Macrobat 

My point? Get a life.

And your point being you showing us rank and security clearance is supposed to make us impressed?

For all I know you are a 13 years old with some family or a friends in the service.

My point is, arguing with your records serves not in any argumentation. You took something at a professional level (if it is true) as a way to justify your argumentation. Agreeing on the difference of opinion would have been the gentleman thing.

But obviously, "stfu because I have security clearance" seems to add weight in your mind, but none for me.

[Macrobat]

No, moron, not to make you impressed. Are you truly this stupid? My courage as "big man, sitting in front of my computer" was impugned - I answered. Feel free to STFU at any moment now. You lower your own IQ points with every post. Go back, read, then admit you are a dumbass.

I don't give two sh!ts what you "know." I own my own web forum and several members here are members there (Sky Captain, Mark Larr and Kevin, to name three) - they have seen pictures of me, have visited in person with me, etc. - what you "know" means EXACTLY jack as well as sh!t.

You are COMPLETELY out of your tree. I posted MY service record in response to my courage being impugned. Do you actually USE English much, or is it just a hobby?

[Spliffdaddy]

*smackdown*

[Peter]

whats that saying about arguments on the internet?