[osiris]

Originally Posted by Monique 

I love people that do not know what they are talking about. What exactly you young male (that want all the women to be anorexic twigs) call obese? 6 feet and 120 pounds instead of 80 pounds.

When you get to be overweight or obese you get use to eat lots of food and food that tastes great. Your stomach gets larger and when you have to start starving yourself on a diet it is very very hard to stick to it and continue for the rest of your life. Eating right or diet is the same thing, carrot or celery stick, 2 bites of chicken, fruits, no milk, no bread, no so-called fatty food (like bacon, egss...).

I guess you can get use to be hungry all the time, and not enjoy eating anymore.

Many overweight or obese people often do not eat huge amount of food but since it is difficult for them to move they will not burn it and it will accumulate.

Ah yes, I forgot we have to exercise at least 2 hours a day to an athletic pace until we taste dirt.

How about this: drink lots of water, don't eat like a pig (as in once in a while have a piece of cake, but not the entire cake), try to get off yer butt every now and then - but more now than then, and never starve yourself as this will slow your metabolism.

I went from 240 to 165 in a year.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Everyone has hobbies. If you have a hobby that involves exercise (mine is tae kwon do, it could be walking though, there are millions of options), you can eat whatever you want. You don't really need diet and exercise to maintain a healthy weight, just one or the other.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

Everyone has hobbies. If you have a hobby that involves exercise (mine is tae kwon do, it could be walking though, there are millions of options), you can eat whatever you want. You don't really need diet and exercise to maintain a healthy weight, just one or the other.

Obviously exercise is good, but I wouldn't say "you can eat whatever you want." Even if you eat just 100 calories more per day than you burn off, you gain a pound a month, which is 25 pounds in just about two years. Boom, you're obese. That's just one small piece of candy a day above what you should take in.

I really can't help but at the people in this thread who dismiss everything except individual behavior. No, cavemen weren't obese, but isn't that the point? We haven't changed genetically. We haven't somehow lost willpower since then. What else explains the dramatic change? What's happened is that we allow corporations to do anything as long as they make money, and so they market cheap, super-high-calorie food, because that's what makes them money. We have families working multiple jobs so that they can make enough money to buy all the goodies that the corporations market to us, so they're too busy to exercise and to prepare good meals. Etc. etc.

Sure, people can resist all those cultural pressures. But you simply can't set up a society with the kinds of incentives and constraints we have set up, and then expect there to be no change in people's behavior. It isn't just a few lazy stupid people - it's the average weight and health of the whole population that's changed, and it's as predictable as the sun rising, given our society's incentives.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

Obviously exercise is good, but I wouldn't say "you can eat whatever you want." Even if you eat just 100 calories more per day than you burn off, you gain a pound a month, which is 25 pounds in just about two years. Boom, you're obese. That's just one small piece of candy a day above what you should take in.

There's more to metabolism than arithmetic. For one thing, your appetite is regulated by your activity. If you get no exercise, the natural regulation is all screwed up. Once you get some exercise, your body is better able to feed itself properly. For another thing, your willingness and ability to exercise is vulnerable to inertia Once you get in the habbit of exercising some, your body will be more able to increase (or decrease) your initiative to do the right amount.

I really can't help but at the people in this thread who dismiss everything except individual behavior. No, cavemen weren't obese, but isn't that the point? We haven't changed genetically. We haven't somehow lost willpower since then. What else explains the dramatic change?

Bold claims about genetics, evolution and nature vs nurture aside, we have changed our behavior: a lot of people have jobs where they sit in a chair all day just to make a living. Our ass didn't evolve to make sitting comfortable (at least not entirely), it also helps us walk long distances and sprint sometimes. If you're not getting exercise in the course of generating food, you're not applicable to the caveman paradigm, at all. It's a worthless analogy.

What's happened is that we allow corporations to do anything as long as they make money, and so they market cheap, super-high-calorie food

I can't help but rolleyes at anyone who thinks junk food is the whole problem. You can eat junk food (in addition to protein and vitamins) and not be obese, if you exercise too.

We have families working multiple jobs so that they can make enough money to buy all the goodies that the corporations market to us, so they're too busy to exercise and to prepare good meals.

That's kind of a whole other argument, and I agree that the people who overindulge are generally also the people who neglect to exercise, but the two are not hopelessly linked. I think it's just a matter of education and practice. My favorite answer to the problem is public transit (or cabs etc), to force people to use their legs once in a while.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

There's more to metabolism than arithmetic. For one thing, your appetite is regulated by your activity. If you get no exercise, the natural regulation is all screwed up. Once you get some exercise, your body is better able to feed itself properly. For another thing, your willingness and ability to exercise is vulnerable to inertia Once you get in the habbit of exercising some, your body will be more able to increase (or decrease) your initiative to do the right amount.

I don't disagree with any of that, but it doesn't change the fact that what I said is absolutely true - that eating 100 calories more per day than you use will result in a weight gain of about 25 pounds in two years. It also doesn't change the fact that it's not true that, as long as you exercise, you can eat whatever you want.

Bold claims about genetics, evolution and nature vs nurture aside, we have changed our behavior: a lot of people have jobs where they sit in a chair all day just to make a living. Our ass didn't evolve to make sitting comfortable (at least not entirely), it also helps us walk long distances and sprint sometimes. If you're not getting exercise in the course of generating food, you're not applicable to the caveman paradigm, at all. It's a worthless analogy.

I can't help but rolleyes at anyone who thinks junk food is the whole problem. You can eat junk food (in addition to protein and vitamins) and not be obese, if you exercise too.

Yes, those are part of the structural changes that have occurred. But obesity trends have really changed dramatically in the past 25 years, and the best analyses that I've seen show that it's mostly due to the easy availability of cheap, high-calorie food. I don't doubt that the lack of movement plays a role as well, but it's the change in calorie intake that has been the primary factor, according to the experts on this.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

I don't disagree with any of that, but it doesn't change the fact that what I said is absolutely true - that eating 100 calories more per day than you use will result in a weight gain of about 25 pounds in two years. It also doesn't change the fact that it's not true that, as long as you exercise, you can eat whatever you want.

If you get enough exercise, "whatever you want" will be a different amount (and content) than if you're a couch (or office chair) potato.

Yes, those are part of the structural changes that have occurred. But obesity trends have really changed dramatically in the past 25 years, and the best analyses that I've seen show that it's mostly due to the easy availability of cheap, high-calorie food. I don't doubt that the lack of movement plays a role as well, but it's the change in calorie intake that has been the primary factor, according to the experts on this.

Got a link? Workplace demographics have changed in the last 25 years too, as have a dozen other major factors. The way you say it it sounds like when people throw up abortions statistics like "street crime and single-parenthood went up exponentially since roe v wade" or whatever. It sounds really fishy to make a correlation about society in general over decades without very specific controls.

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by cdetdi 

I read the whole thing. Whats your point? If you are suggesting that my responses are either "5 minutes ago" or off topic, then you're wrong. Clearly the things I brought up are still important, considering macintologist statement:

"
cdetdi

Originally Posted by cdetdi 

Point here, its not easy to practice the perfect-habits preached in this thread. The sooner the arguement moves on from "its your fault" and to "what can we, should we be really doing about this" (other than making it someone else's fault), the sooner this issue will be resolved.

Not one person had posted anything resembling what you were implying by the second quoted statement at the time it was posted.

That's why I asked if you even read it. Be careful not to strain yourself from your knee-jerking.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

If you get enough exercise, "whatever you want" will be a different amount (and content) than if you're a couch (or office chair) potato.

What do you mean? That exercising more will reduce your appetite? I'm sure that's true - for one thing, it's harder to eat snicker's bars when you're on the treadmill than when you're on the couch. But I don't think anyone would agree with you that if you exercise you are "saved" and eating no longer matters. Plenty of active people are overweight. Ever see a fat football player? My guess is that, if what you say is true, it's largely correlational rather than causal: People who exercise more also care more about their health, and so are less likely to overeat.

Got a link? Workplace demographics have changed in the last 25 years too, as have a dozen other major factors. The way you say it it sounds like when people throw up abortions statistics like "street crime and single-parenthood went up exponentially since roe v wade" or whatever. It sounds really fishy to make a correlation about society in general over decades without very specific controls.

No, epidemiology does not (usually) involve controlled experiments. But the consensus view, and I think it's well-grounded, is that calorie intake has increased more than activity levels have decreased during the period of the largest rise in obesity. I don't have a specific link (though I'm sure there are thousands on the internet), because this is a professional interest of mine, and my wife is also a dietitian and nutrition instructor. The basic texts and reviews that I've seen seem to all make this basic point about calorie intake. I don't want to overstate it though - of course our activity levels have changed, and that's a large part of the obesity trend. But most consensus opinions seem to be that caloric intake plays a larger role, and it's certainly not 100% activity-related, as you say it is.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

What do you mean? That exercising more will reduce your appetite?

I believe that exercise reduces your appetite for absolute crap, yes. When I exercise my desire for food shifts from junk food more to substantive food, and I see signs the same is true in lots of people.

Plenty of active people are overweight. Ever see a fat football player?

I thought we were talking about obese, as in so fat that it interferes with daily life. I don't watch football, but I doubt any football players are that fat.

My guess is that, if what you say is true, it's largely correlational rather than causal: People who exercise more also care more about their health, and so are less likely to overeat.

I'm sure that's also true, but there is a grey area between correlation and cause in this case. Exercise (vs none) often makes you care more about your health, and I would say that effect is not entirely mental. Exercise changes your emotional (and appetitive) chemistry.

calorie intake has increased more than activity levels have decreased
...
and it's certainly not 100% activity-related, as you say it is.

I'm not saying there is only one cause, I'm saying there is more than one solution. This is relevant because one size doesn't fit all, and if the only way to fix the problem is to change your diet, there are going to be a lot of people that won't fix the problem. I agree that changing your diet is a perfectly good way to overcome obesity. It's just that some people aren't able to attack the problem that way, and exercise is another option.

[Kerrigan]

I know this sounds ridiculous, but I think obesity is not only a behavioral problem, but to some extent a moral problem as well. I have watched many people get fat over the last 5 years or so, and this usually goes hand in hand with physical and mental laziness.

There is also a good deal of self-deception involved: all the time these fat people say "I watch what I eat, I'm very healthy, I'm cutting down, etc" and later that evening they'll chow down on snacks and sweets.

Not only do I see this with people I know, whenever I watch documentaries on obese people trying to lose weight, they are always lying to everyone (including themselves) about how much they eat, and they get on the defensive when people try to correct them.

This sort of carelessness and neglect for ones' own body is bound to have bad consequences.

[Snow-i]

Originally Posted by BRussell 

I don't disagree with any of that, but it doesn't change the fact that what I said is absolutely true - that eating 100 calories more per day than you use will result in a weight gain of about 25 pounds in two years. It also doesn't change the fact that it's not true that, as long as you exercise, you can eat whatever you want.

so where does poop come from?



I can't believe people actually want to give disability to obese people. Why would they not be able to work? Why would they not be able to excerise to get their weight down? Why should we perpetuate the problem? Lets give disability to the lazy as well. Its not their fault they don't want to work!!! Their mental state prevents work ethic, and therefore they shouldn't have to work.

Give me a break. We should be cutting down the number of gov't handouts so that those who are truly disabled can have better benefits at less cost to the rest of society.

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

so where does poop come from?



I can't believe people actually want to give disability to obese people. Why would they not be able to work? Why would they not be able to excerise to get their weight down? Why should we perpetuate the problem? Lets give disability to the lazy as well. Its not their fault they don't want to work!!! Their mental state prevents work ethic, and therefore they shouldn't have to work.

Because not all obese people will benefit from eating less. Not all obesity cases are simply a diet issue. I agree that generalizing disability to all obese people is a mistake, but not all obese people can get a cure simply by eating less.

[Snow-i]

k but obesity isn't a disorder, and it rarely disallows people to perform a job function. Its sometimes the result of some disorders, which i could see giving disability for...

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by Snow-i 

k but obesity isn't a disorder, and it rarely disallows people to perform a job function. Its sometimes the result of some disorders, which i could see giving disability for...

In the previous page of this thread I reported many documented causes for obesity.

[IceBreaker]

Originally Posted by Pendergast 

In the previous page of this thread I reported many documented causes for obesity.

the main cause of obesity is taking in more calories than necessary.

I lost at least 120 lbs when I was 18 years old. I was about 360 (at least) and weight 240 now which for my height and build of 6'4" is appropriate...size 14 feet, went from a 46"x30" inseam to 34"x38" jean size. I work out 5x a week, and bike 12 miles a day and at the age of 39 now am in the best shape of my life.


As a former morbidly obese person I think I have the same reaction that ex-smokers have for smokers.

Yes, it is hard to quit, (eating or smoking). but you just have to do it yourself.

No one made me eat, I did it myself. It aggrivates me to no end to see people doing the stomach stapling, diet pills etc. The only thing that keeps weight off LONG TERM is eating less and excercize. There are no easy routes.

Some of my former habits to give those who don't realize what it takes to maintain a 360 lbs body weight:

when fat I ALWAYS skipped breakfast thinking it would make me thin. (wrong).

So I was so hungry by lunchtime I ate enough for 2 adults, i.e. Large drink, Large Fries, Large Sandwich etc. In my opinion "large" sizes of anything are enough for 2 adults. I'm old enough to remember going to a fast food place and a Large Coke back then (1970's) was about 12 ounces. Today's 32 ounce or whatever size drinks are rediculous...to say nothing of supercized fries etc.

Then at dinner I'd typically eat a entire bag of Doritos and a half a box of Ding Dongs and a half (or sometimes whole) pizza washed down with 4 16 ounce bottles of Pepsi.

Then while watching t.v. I'd keep eating potato chips or candy bars constantly while watching the tube.


No excercize...ever.


Well... when I was 18 I decided enough was enough and went on a very wierd diet that most would hate but it worked for me.

I ate ONE meal a day at McDonalds. anything I wanted. at noon, and that was it for the entire day. I pretty much lost 120 lbs by eating a Big Mac value meal every day for a year for lunch...I started out eating that plus a apple pie and a chocoloate shake....after a few weeks your stomach shrinks enough on its own by only eating one meal a day that you can only stomach the fries, sandwich and coke....so I just had those 3 items at lunch (and lots of diet coke the rest of the day)... lost 120 lbs doing that.

If there was a family event I would not eat until that meal.

To lose the weight is different for everyone, but that is what worked for me.

Now..once I lost that everyone though I had a bad illness, as I lost so much weight I looked like a entirely different person.....after one year of that McDonalds diet I switched to what I have done the last 20 years.

what I do now:

I have the same meal every day basically. 2 eggs, and a grapefruit and one piece of bacon for breakfast.

Lunch is a single small sandwich and diet soft drink.

dinner is usually a big salad of some sort, for the last year I've had alot of the Crispy Chicken Bacon Ranch salads at McDonalds. (Yes I eat at McDonalds alot).

For snacks I eat about 2 ounces of dark chocolate a day..some mid morning, some mid afternoon...and in the evening I have a single glass of red wine.

And right before bed I have a small bowl of shredded frosted mini-wheat cereal with whole milk.

And...the big reason I'm still thin, as its not just diet.... I bike 6- 12 miles a day ..I used to jog when I was younger but I found it too hard on my knees. And I lift weights.


so.............

if anyone is on here and reading this and is younger and fat..don't give up, I just want to say, dont' think being fat is inevitable or requires surgery.

It just requires moderation in meal size/portion size, and excercize. The biggest thing about excercize is that you feel a million percent better just from doing that after a few months.

Genetics are not fair. ..but neither is life..... I have a brother who is thin as a rail and eats at least 3x what I do and never excercizes.....

What I do is a constant thing for life. The first 2 weeks are a killer, it is ultra hard to skip dinner, But after doing it for a while it becomes second nature and not a big deal...and I did lose that 120 lbs in one year. and I didn't excercize a bit. I didn't start excercizing until AFTER I lost the weight as I saw it creaping back on me so I started the jogging...did that for 15 years then switched to biking. (same benefit less stressful to the joints).


sooo...........

No..obesity is not a disorder. It just means you have to eat less.