[lpkmckenna]

It sometimes amazes me how Apple treats its loyal users.

iCloud is available for Windows users on Vista (released Jan 2007) and Win 7, but is not available for users of Leopard (Oct 2007) or Snow Leopard (Aug 2009).

I just picked up a new iPhone 4S (which was a painful, drawn-out experience perhaps requiring its own post). I haven't yet decided whether to buy a new MacBook Pro, and Lion isn't exactly selling itself to me as a desirable upgrade for my current MacBook. But until I decide and open my wallet, iCloud is closed to me.

The fact that Apple avoided free contact syncing for years, and when they finally manage it they still gotta twist the screws a bit just blows me away.

[imitchellg5]

Apple's loyal users are the users who don't upgrade to the newest OS?

It's been known since iCloud was announced that it was a feature of OS X Lion.

[Twilly Spree]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

It sometimes amazes me how Apple treats its loyal users.

Really? After all this time, you're just seeing that now?

Apple has a different view of what is a "loyal customer", in their view it's the customer that annually buys a new iToy or consumer Mac from them. That's loyal in their world, and that's it.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Twilly Spree 

Really? After all this time, you're just seeing that now?

I didn't say this was a new revelation for me.

Apple has a different view of what is a "loyal customer", in their view it's the customer that annually buys a new iToy or consumer Mac from them. That's loyal in their world, and that's it.

I just bought a new phone from them, and that still isn't good enough.

[Twilly Spree]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

I just bought a new phone from them, and that still isn't good enough.

iCloud is supported on your new phone, isn't it. That's my point.

[Lateralus]

Apple has done a pretty good job of losing me over the past few years. I still chuckle in dismay at the fact that Apple threw Quad G5 owners out in the cold after 10.5 <-- an OS that saw initial release a mere 15~ months after those machines were taken off the market.

I have a MacBook unibody, the same one I bought in late 2008, and... I don't know that I honestly care anymore about Apple hardware. My next phone will be running Windows, and if my next PC doesn't as well then it'll likely be a Hackintosh nevertheless.

[Athens]

$30.00 upgrade, talk about cheap....

[Big Mac]

But many people don't like the disruptive changes they've made in Lion. For some, it completely wrecks their workflows. I agree that it's problematic to have Vista and 7 be supported by iCloud but not Snow Leopard.

[Waragainstsleep]

Seems odd to support Vista. Maybe they did it out of pity.

[Big Mac]

Why support 7 and not Snow Leopard? Greed.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

I just bought a new phone from them, and that still isn't good enough.

Wow, somebody feels entitled.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Why support 7 and not Snow Leopard? Greed.

Yep. It's a dumb move.

-t

[nonhuman]

Seriously? You expect Apple to add significant new features to an old, out-dated version of their OS? That's not the way that any software product works: new features come in new versions, old versions get maintenance updates for a limited period of time until they cease to be supported. Apple, especially, has never worked this way; they abandon old versions and don't worry too much about backwards compatibility. This is one of the things that we, Apple fans, have always indicated as one of the major benefits over Microsoft/Windows.

As far as supporting WIndows Vista as well as 7, that's because Windows users are potential new customers. They're trying to sell Windows users on the advantages of Apple products; Mac users are, presumably, already sold, and have the opportunity to get these new features in a manner far less disruptive than is available to Windows users who also need to buy all new hardware rather than simply a cheap $30 software upgrade.

Is this because of greed? I suppose it depends on how you define greed, but under any reasonable definition: no. Of course they are pursuing profit, but so what? What's wrong with profit? They've managed to build an incredibly successful business, their profit is both an indication of that and a part of it. If they're profitable, it's because they're creating products that are desirable to consumers.

[Wiskedjak]

For some Mac customers, upgrading to Lion means having to get a new computer.

To me, it suggests that Windows is more robust and future proofed than MacOS if it can handle Apple ecosystem updates better than MacOS can.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

For some Mac customers, upgrading to Lion means having to get a new computer.

And your point is? Technology advances.

To me, it suggests that Windows is more robust and future proofed than MacOS if it can handle Apple ecosystem updates better than MacOS can.

Then you're failing to comprehend the concept of a business.

Why should Apple invest time and money in back-porting features to old versions of OS X? It makes no sense whatsoever.

[Athens]

There is very little in the difference between Windows Vista and Windows 7. The most important element is Office not Windows when it comes to the mail and calendar support. The photo streaming is just photos to a folder, nothing special. In fact I don't see why it wont work on XP either and with a little work I bet it would.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Seriously? You expect Apple to add significant new features to an old, out-dated version of their OS? That's not the way that any software product works: new features come in new versions, old versions get maintenance updates for a limited period of time until they cease to be supported. Apple, especially, has never worked this way; they abandon old versions and don't worry too much about backwards compatibility. This is one of the things that we, Apple fans, have always indicated as one of the major benefits over Microsoft/Windows.

Snow Leopard is the last major release before the most current one, and it's still very popular. Apple has in the past offered newer features to older OS users, as with the App Store in Snow Leopard and as with many previous releases of Safari that Apple brought to previous OS milestones. Do you really think iCloud is so advanced that Apple can't reasonable offer support for it in Snow Leopard. I seriously doubt that to be true. It's not much more than an update to MobileMe, and if Apple can support Vista and 7 surely it can also support Snow Leopard. It's a completely arbitrary choice that penalizes loyal Mac customers who haven't made the switch to Lion yet, for whatever reason. As for Apple eschewing backward compatibility, that's usually discussed in the context of jettisoning compatibility with outdated features in future versions of the OS or hardware, not arbitrarily deciding to shaft users of the previous milestone release because of a desire to force them into upgrading to Lion, while simultaneously supporting the current and previous version of Windows (which one would assume would be more challenging to do versus adding the feature to Snow Leopard).

[Waragainstsleep]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Why support 7 and not Snow Leopard? Greed.

You didn't seriously expect them not to support Windows at all? 7 is the current version, iCloud is a feature Apple thinks highly of. No rocket science required here.

Vista is slightly more puzzling though since they ignored Snow Leopard. Maybe its just that Vista and 7 or so similar you can't easily support one without the other.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep 

You didn't seriously expect them not to support Windows at all? 7 is the current version, iCloud is a feature Apple thinks highly of. No rocket science required here.

Vista is slightly more puzzling though since they ignored Snow Leopard. Maybe its just that Vista and 7 or so similar you can't easily support one without the other.

Lion and Snow Leopard are pretty similar too.

I agree with the others that say that this was a lame move on Apple's part. I don't understand why anybody would be anxious to defend it as if standing up for the underdog.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

Apple has done a pretty good job of losing me over the past few years. I still chuckle in dismay at the fact that Apple threw Quad G5 owners out in the cold after 10.5 <-- an OS that saw initial release a mere 15~ months after those machines were taken off the market.

a) 10.6 was released something like three years after the quad G5s were released.

b) 10.6 brought no new functionality to the table — it was mostly a re-write for Intel, so

c) 10.7 was the first truly new OS in terms of user-interaction veneer, and that was released something like six years after the quad G5, and five years after the last quad G5s shipped.

</apologist>

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak 

For some Mac customers, upgrading to Lion means having to get a new computer.

That applies exclusively to users whose machines are now older than five years (four years in the case of the Mac mini - the C2D minis weren't released until August 2007).

That does kind of suck, but those machines had a good run, and needing a new machine to run the latest-and-greatest new feature has pretty much been standard for the last thirty years.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Why support 7 and not Snow Leopard? Greed.

With all due respect, but do you actually know how iCloud works? It relies on changed APIs that are simply not available on Leopard and Snow Leopard.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

a) 10.6 was released something like three years after the quad G5s were released.

b) 10.6 brought no new functionality to the table — it was mostly a re-write for Intel, so

c) 10.7 was the first truly new OS in terms of user-interaction veneer, and that was released something like six years after the quad G5, and five years after the last quad G5s shipped.

</apologist>

I don't know about the overall timeline, but you can't say that because 10.6 provided no new features that Apple gets a freebie in terms of not counting as a supported OS.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

With all due respect, but do you actually know how iCloud works? It relies on changed APIs that are simply not available on Leopard and Snow Leopard.

If Apple can support iTunes running on 10.5 and they can support iCloud on Vista, they can support iCloud in 10.6 at the very least. This was a case of them anticipating being able to get away with not being able to expend the extra effort and support resources - boundaries that they will change and test again without customers bitching.

Customers bitching at this is a good thing, even if you aren't affected or feel that there is a cause for bitching.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

With all due respect, but do you actually know how iCloud works? It relies on changed APIs that are simply not available on Leopard and Snow Leopard.

Windows Vista could handle changed APIs that Snow Leopard couldn't? I wish I could see the Mac vs. PC commercial/conversation on THAT one. "Hi, I'm a PC, and I can last longer than Mac"

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

If Apple can support iTunes running on 10.5 and they can support iCloud on Vista, they can support iCloud in 10.6 at the very least. This was a case of them anticipating being able to get away with not being able to expend the extra effort and support resources - boundaries that they will change and test again without customers bitching.

Customers bitching at this is a good thing, even if you aren't affected or feel that there is a cause for bitching.

Exactly. Customers bitching is what got multi-tasking gestures back onto the iPad1.

[Thorzdad]

Apple quite obviously wants to push users to 10.7 and the iOS-ification of the Mac. They see iCloud as a tempting carrot to that end. I suspect they could, in fact, make iCloud available to Snow Leopard users, just as they made the App Store available in SL. Of course, the App Store also serves as a carrot, with the large number of tempting 10.7-only apps featured.

[Wiskedjak]

Exactly. However, I suspect people might eventually get tired of Apple constantly pushing it's agends so forcefully.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

With all due respect, but do you actually know how iCloud works? It relies on changed APIs that are simply not available on Leopard and Snow Leopard.

With all due respect, but do you actually know how iCloud The Mac App Store works? It relies on changed APIs that are simply not available on Snow Leopard.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

With all due respect, but do you actually know how iCloud The Mac App Store works? It relies on changed APIs that are simply not available on Snow Leopard.

The Mac App Store works on Snow Leopard just fine. The new file system APIs that iCloud relies on are not available on Snow Leopard, you need new versions of iCal, Address Book and such which take advantage of them. I don't see a point in writing maintaining two versions of the same app for two different operating systems, especially since the upgrade to Lion is so cheap.

[imitchellg5]

Originally Posted by Athens 

There is very little in the difference between Windows Vista and Windows 7. The most important element is Office not Windows when it comes to the mail and calendar support. The photo streaming is just photos to a folder, nothing special. In fact I don't see why it wont work on XP either and with a little work I bet it would.

This. Under the hood, Vista and 7 are nearly identical, and the iCloud integration is very, very shallow. Basically just a folder and a pathway. iCloud is more deeply integrated into OS X Lion.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Snow Leopard is the last major release before the most current one, and it's still very popular. Apple has in the past offered newer features to older OS users, as with the App Store in Snow Leopard and as with many previous releases of Safari that Apple brought to previous OS milestones. Do you really think iCloud is so advanced that Apple can't reasonable offer support for it in Snow Leopard. I seriously doubt that to be true. It's not much more than an update to MobileMe, and if Apple can support Vista and 7 surely it can also support Snow Leopard. It's a completely arbitrary choice that penalizes loyal Mac customers who haven't made the switch to Lion yet, for whatever reason. As for Apple eschewing backward compatibility, that's usually discussed in the context of jettisoning compatibility with outdated features in future versions of the OS or hardware, not arbitrarily deciding to shaft users of the previous milestone release because of a desire to force them into upgrading to Lion, while simultaneously supporting the current and previous version of Windows (which one would assume would be more challenging to do versus adding the feature to Snow Leopard).

From a technology standpoint, I don't really know enough to say for sure, but it does not seem even remotely unreasonable that the iCloud implementation in Lion depends on other features and APIs that are exclusive to Lion. iCloud is not simply another app that runs on the OS, it is integrated into the OS and touches who knows how many bits and pieces of the inner workings of the system. It may well be the case that it would have been technologically simple to implement iCloud for Snow Leopard. However, it may well also have been the case that it would not be.

Either way, though, it would require an investment of time and money on a product that Apple is no longer selling. With some exceptions, it makes no sense for apple to do this for any feature or app. The App Store makes sense, because it's a revenue stream for Apple: back-porting it to Snow Leopard means more money for Apple. Back-porting iCloud to Snow Leopard, on the other hand, involves a potentially heavy investment with absolutely no possibility of return; quite the opposite: making iCloud exclusive to Lion and higher creates an incentive for Snow Leopard users to upgrade, thus making Apple money. So from a financial point of view, they made the only logical decision. This does not make Apple greedy, it makes them a profitable and successful company, and represents very typical behavior for any developer and maintainer of software. Having a handful of open source project myself (ones that are actually even used by people), I can say that you would have to present an extremely compelling case to get me to invest my time in adding new features to an old version of my software, especially considering that doing so will increase the amount of maintenance work that then needs to be done on that old version on top of the current version. How much more so must this be true for Apple, which has entire teams of developers building and maintaining entire operating systems? The cost of dedicating more developers to Snow Leopard that would be incurred by adding new features to it (that then need to be supported) simply makes the option a poor one.

As I mentioned before, Windows is a completely different case. Especially in the case of Windows Vista and Windows 7, which are probably substantially more similar than Snow Leopard and Lion. Further justifying supporting both versions of Windows is the fact that Windows 7 hasn't been a hugely popular update. It's been a while since I paid attention to the numbers, but I would imagine that only targeting Windows 7 for iCloud would severely reduce the number of Windows users that will actually get to use it therefore also severely reducing the number of Windows users that are being provided with a sneak preview of the awesomeness they could have if only they'd switch to Mac. I'd imagine that Apple probably would have targeted Windows XP as well if it were technically feasible.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

The Mac App Store works on Snow Leopard just fine.

Your sarcasm meter is broken.

The new file system APIs that iCloud relies on are not available on Snow Leopard, you need new versions of iCal, Address Book and such which take advantage of them. I don't see a point in writing maintaining two versions of the same app for two different operating systems, especially since the upgrade to Lion is so cheap.

APIs have nothing to do with it. Shoehorning iCloud into Snow Leopard isn't any more difficult than shoehorning in the App Store.

Isn't it amazing Apple managed to make contact and calendar syncing work in Windows Vista without requiring a rewrite of Outlook? On the other hand, Apple did have to rewrite the Dock for the Mac App Store. You have it backwards.

The cheap cost of Lion is irrelevant. Remember the cheap cost of QuickTime Player Pro, and how infuriating that was? Handing over $30 for one feature when I'm gonna replace this computer soon is just stupid.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

Your sarcasm meter is broken.
APIs have nothing to do with it. Shoehorning iCloud into Snow Leopard isn't any more difficult than shoehorning in the App Store.

Um, really? The App Store does very little. It's basically a modified web browser with some integration into the iTunes authentication framework. Installing apps through the App Store doesn't do anything different than if you were to download them from a website and manually move them into the /Applications folder. It is an extremely simple app.

iCloud, on the other hand, is not. It is a service that requires much deeper integration with the system as well as with a number of other apps. It requires whole new APIs and subsystems in the OS, each of which come with their own set of requirements and dependencies.

Isn't it amazing Apple managed to make contact and calendar syncing work in Windows Vista without requiring a rewrite of Outlook? On the other hand, Apple did have to rewrite the Dock for the Mac App Store. You have it backwards.

No, you have it backwards. Apple has no reason to make the necessary investment to back-port iCloud to Snow Leopard. They do, however, have a good reason to back-port the App Store. They also have a good reason to support Vista.

The cheap cost of Lion is irrelevant. Remember the cheap cost of QuickTime Player Pro, and how infuriating that was? Handing over $30 for one feature when I'm gonna replace this computer soon is just stupid.

Yes, it is stupid. But you're going to replace that computer soon anyway, and when you do you'll get Lion and iCloud. So why on Earth would Apple want to waste time and money on giving you iCloud for the short amount of time until then? Especially when not doing so could, potentially, be an impetus driving you to upgrade sooner than you otherwise would?

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Um, really? The App Store does very little. It's basically a modified web browser with some integration into the iTunes authentication framework. Installing apps through the App Store doesn't do anything different than if you were to download them from a website and manually move them into the /Applications folder. It is an extremely simple app.

iCloud, on the other hand, is not. It is a service that requires much deeper integration with the system as well as with a number of other apps. It requires whole new APIs and subsystems in the OS, each of which come with their own set of requirements and dependencies.

You failed to address my observation that Vista did not require the massive OS rewrite. Adding iCloud to Snow Leopard is no harder than adding it to Vista: that is, not hard at all. Heck, almost everything iCloud does has been done by Apple before in various forms on their older operating systems: contact/calendar syncing, PhotoStream (a rebranded iPhoto sharing), etc. There's nothing really new or hard here, which is why it's so easy to add all this stuff to Vista. All this yapping about "new APIs" is complete nonsense.

Apple has no reason to make the necessary investment to back-port iCloud to Snow Leopard. They do, however, have a good reason to back-port the App Store. They also have a good reason to support Vista.

This is what it's all about: Apple's typical nickel'n'diming of their Mac customers. It was pathetic to pay for full screen movies, it was pathetic to pay for contact syncing via MobileMe, and it's still pathetic, except they're now pretending it's "free."

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

You failed to address my observation that Vista did not require the massive OS rewrite. Adding iCloud to Snow Leopard is no harder than adding it to Vista: that is, not hard at all. Heck, almost everything iCloud does has been done by Apple before in various forms on their older operating systems: contact/calendar syncing, PhotoStream (a rebranded iPhoto sharing), etc. There's nothing really new or hard here, which is why it's so easy to add all this stuff to Vista. All this yapping about "new APIs" is complete nonsense.

I will give you that it would probably be relatively easy to add iCloud contact and calendar syncing to Snow Leopard. I'm pretty sure that they're using CalDAV for calendar syncing (in which case it might be possible to manually configure Snow Leopard to sync your iCloud calendars). Not sure about contacts, but contacts are pretty simple data. However, we could both be wrong about that. Apple, for whatever (potentially good, potentially bad) reasons, might have decided to use completely different technologies for iCloud that aren't currently by Snow Leopard.

Photos, I imagine, are not nearly as simple as you're making it out to be. iCloud's photo syncing is not just a rebranded iPhoto sharing; it does a lot of things both on your local computer and on Apple's servers. The level of effort required to implement that in Snow Leopard is unknown by either of us, though I get the impression you think it would be significantly easier than I do.

(Out of curiosity, but are you a programmer or involved in software development at all? Answering no certainly would not invalidate your opinion on matters such as this, but, as a programmer myself, I find that non-programmers pretty universally, and often severely, underestimate the effort required in adding 'a simple' feature to something.)

Just because Apple has done similar things in the past does not mean that the current implementation is in any way like the old one, and does not mean they can automatically or easily add their new features.

But all of this ignores the fact that it is unreasonable to expect new features to be implemented on old operating systems. Active development for Snow Leopard is over; no one should expect anything beyond bug fixes and security updates. Adding new features significantly increases the amount of work required because it not only requires the initial development to be done but potentially introduces new bugs and security problems that will need to be fixed in the future. This requires time and it requires money, and it offers no possible payback for Apple. This is simply not the way that software development does or should work.

This is what it's all about: Apple's typical nickel'n'diming of their Mac customers. It was pathetic to pay for full screen movies, it was pathetic to pay for contact syncing via MobileMe, and it's still pathetic, except they're now pretending it's "free."

So don't pay for it. I don't, and never have, paid for any of those things.

Apple charges good prices for good products; if they didn't they'd go out of business.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

If Apple can support iTunes running on 10.5 and they can support iCloud on Vista, they can support iCloud in 10.6 at the very least. This was a case of them anticipating being able to get away with not being able to expend the extra effort and support resources - boundaries that they will change and test again without customers bitching.

You're completely missing the point of Apple's business model:

Apple is a hardware company.

iTunes sells hardware (iPods, iPhones, and, now to a lesser extent, iPads).

iCloud is a nice advantage to the iPhone, and if getting it to play nice with the computer is desired, I'm sure Apple will be happy to sell you a new Mac to make it work.

Of course Apple aren't *unable* to implement iCloud on older systems — they could back-port the APIs and make it all work, if they saw good reason for the investment.

Apparently, they don't.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by Thorzdad 

10.7 and the iOS-ification of the Mac.

I keep reading this, and every time I do, it *still* strikes me as bullshit.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

You're completely missing the point of Apple's business model:

Apple is a hardware company.

iTunes sells hardware (iPods, iPhones, and, now to a lesser extent, iPads).

iCloud is a nice advantage to the iPhone, and if getting it to play nice with the computer is desired, I'm sure Apple will be happy to sell you a new Mac to make it work.

Of course Apple aren't *unable* to implement iCloud on older systems — they could back-port the APIs and make it all work, if they saw good reason for the investment.

Apparently, they don't.

This didn't need to be explained or defended. I get it. It is still lousy from the customer's standpoint, who I'm defending.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

This didn't need to be explained or defended. I get it. It is still lousy from the customer's standpoint, who I'm defending.

Can't be that lousy or Apple wouldn't be raking in money hand over fist...

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna 

You failed to address my observation that Vista did not require the massive OS rewrite. Adding iCloud to Snow Leopard is no harder than adding it to Vista: that is, not hard at all. Heck, almost everything iCloud does has been done by Apple before in various forms on their older operating systems: contact/calendar syncing, PhotoStream (a rebranded iPhoto sharing), etc. There's nothing really new or hard here, which is why it's so easy to add all this stuff to Vista. All this yapping about "new APIs" is complete nonsense.

It looks like they're building their own DropBox clone (they in fact tried to buy DropBox, but were refused the sale).

I'm not sure how deep that sort of thing would run.

Also, we really don't know at this point all the stuff they're planning with iCloud, as they're smarter this time around about announcing only what they're pretty sure they've got working.

I think iCloud is going to be a lot bigger and more important to their product strategy than it looks now, and than iTools/.Mac/MobileMe ever was.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

This didn't need to be explained or defended. I get it. It is still lousy from the customer's standpoint, who I'm defending.

Take a look at Apple's customer satisfaction ratings.

Their strategy of limiting focus and making that stuff work appears to work rather well for Apple AND the vast majority of their customers.

Also, if it didn't need explaining, this thread wouldn't exist.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

Can't be that lousy or Apple wouldn't be raking in money hand over fist...

Sorry, but this is a lousy argument.

Should we also ascertain that the public is delighted with the major US banks that also make a ton of money? Customers can be put off by things but not enough to switch to an alternative (in this case the major one being Microsoft), but this doesn't mean that they aren't put off.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Spheric Harlot 

Take a look at Apple's customer satisfaction ratings.

Their strategy of limiting focus and making that stuff work appears to work rather well for Apple AND the vast majority of their customers.

Yeah, so?

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Sorry, but this is a lousy argument.

Should we also ascertain that the public is delighted with the major US banks that also make a ton of money? Customers can be put off by things but not enough to switch to an alternative (in this case the major one being Microsoft), but this doesn't mean that they aren't put off.

What you just said isn't incompatible with what I said.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

What you just said isn't incompatible with what I said.

I think it is. There is not necessarily a relationship between customer satisfaction and profits, particularly when there is little to no competition.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by nonhuman 

And your point is? Technology advances.

Absolutely. It's just interesting that Windows seems better able to handle advances in technology than MacOS.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by imitchellg5 

This. Under the hood, Vista and 7 are nearly identical, and the iCloud integration is very, very shallow. Basically just a folder and a pathway. iCloud is more deeply integrated into OS X Lion.

Certainly, and the same shallow integration could have been done for Snow Leopard, just as they did with the iTunes iCloud implementation.

[jmiddel]

Re the original post, what about this rumor: Mac OS X Snow Leopard 10.6.9 to Bring iCloud Support? - Mac Rumors ?

Re the debate, I'm on the side of those defending the consumer. Given that of 9/28 "Lion is still only the third most popular version of OS X, according to Chitika. New weekly data produced by the analytics firm puts Lion at just 14.18 percent of the market, compared with Snow Leopard, which remains dominant at 55.54 percent. Even Leopard -- now nearly four years old -- has greater representation at 22.23 percent."*, I think that if Apple does not implement iCoud in a 10.6.9 they are real sh!tes.

A poster used the word "shoehorning", and that feel is the one and only thing that aggravates me with Apple. PLease allow me to run old apps in new OSs, doesn't most stuff written for wretched XP still run in W7? And please allow me access to the innards of my machines, I really do know how to fix them.

That said, I understand Apple's, and SJ's desire to make their stuff as idiot proof as possible. And back when, the myth was that the DOS/Windows folks were the geeks, and Mac users were those who couldn't care less about tech, but just wanted to get stuff done the easiest way possible. In reality, all of us were some of all those things, and still are. I know someones who should never know their admin pw. and who would never dream of opening up the hood of their car, let alone a mac mini. On the other hand, a decent amount of current Mac users are into tech on many levels, and thus need the flexibility that PC users take for granted.


*Lion still just third most popular version of OS X | MacNN

[Athens]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

With all due respect, but do you actually know how iCloud works? It relies on changed APIs that are simply not available on Leopard and Snow Leopard.

And you can manually get email going and I think calendar with icloud on non Lion machines too. But you dont get find my mac, and I dont know about photo stream. And I wouldnt be surprised if we see more offered in iCloud down the road.