[macfantn]

have mms or instant messaging even a basic nokia 6030 does those things

http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/09/i...ning-workbook/

surely this can't be correct???

[Mithras]

I agree the lack of IM is a major oversight, but who sends MMS phone-to-phone? I only ever send photos from my phone to email addresses.

[imitchellg5]

I'm sure it will be added.

[macfantn]

my sister sends me lots of mms pics of my niece, how could they overlook something as simple as mms

[Chuckit]

It's pretty much universally agreed that IM is coming, but they decided not to put it in for release (maybe needs more debugging or something).

[ajprice]

If IM is coming, fair enough. As for MMS, never used it. If they are in the room with you, send it over bluetooth, if they are somewhere else, email them. Job done.

[OwlBoy]

MMS is needed, lots of people use it!

-Owl

[Goldfinger]

Yup the lack of MMS is pretty retarded.

There is always something or some piece lacking from Apple's hardware. In this case it's MMS. Something pretty essential these days.

[OreoCookie]

No, MMS isn't essential, send e-mails, people!
I've been doing this in Japan a few years ago and people don't realize they don't need MMS, just attach the pic/video to an e-mail and send it. Since everybody had (and still has) push e-mails, you could send it not just to your friends' computers, but also to other cell phones.

[chabig]

Software updates will be coming. It'll probably added.

[Angus_D]

Do you expect IM to work over packet data or SMS?

[Peter]

what do you use MMS for?

[KeriVit]

My best friend 1200 miles away doesn't have Email. (*gasp*) So pic messages are it.

[macfantn]

not everyone will have an iphone or email access on their phone. Plus email isn't always push, with the iphone only yahoo is push right? I use gmail and don't feel like getting yet another email address.

[Chuckit]

My friend doesn't have a phone, SMS or e-mail. I feel that the iPhone needs to account for this situation.

[seanc]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

My friend doesn't have a phone, SMS or e-mail. I feel that the iPhone needs to account for this situation.

Built in printer and envelope maker? Carrier pigeon too?

[Dakarʒ]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

My friend doesn't have a phone, SMS or e-mail. I feel that the iPhone needs to account for this situation.

Agreed. Where is my built-in telepathy?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

No, MMS isn't essential, send e-mails, people!

Dunno about the US, but email costs something like 100X as much as MMS around here.

Lack of MMS support is pretty lame. At least it would be if you can get the phone unlocked. If you're locked to AT&T's or Roger's iPhone plans then it may not matter. It won't for me at least, since I won't be buying a locked iPhone any time soon.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

No, MMS isn't essential, send e-mails, people!
I've been doing this in Japan a few years ago and people don't realize they don't need MMS, just attach the pic/video to an e-mail and send it. Since everybody had (and still has) push e-mails, you could send it not just to your friends' computers, but also to other cell phones.

I know approximately three people (I think) who have e-mail configured on their phones.

ONE who has push e-mail.

1. Take picture with phone.
2. hit "Send" and enter phone number from phone book.
3. profit.

[Chuckit]

I know exactly zero people I wouldn't murder if they filled up my phone's limited text message memory with photos.

[analogika]

My phone has 300+ MB of free memory after everything I want on there is on there.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I know exactly zero people I wouldn't murder if they filled up my phone's limited text message memory with photos.

There's something called a Delete button on most phones.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

No, MMS isn't essential, send e-mails, people!

Not every phone can receive e-mail, and for most phones that can, people didn't set their phone up to do it, because it is a) expensive and b) complicated to set up and c) slow and d) retarded to read e-mail on a regular phone (screen smaller than that of the iPhone, ie. almost any phone). Also e-mail is not instant like an MMS message. Probably less then 1 ‰ of phone users read e-mail on their phones.

So yes, to send pictures and stuff from phone to phone, MMS is essential.

[Eug]

Ironically, the only type of email I send is MMS to email, cuz it's a heluvalot cheaper than email to email.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by KeriVit 

My best friend 1200 miles away doesn't have Email. (*gasp*) So pic messages are it.

*gasp*

You shouldn't design 21th century technology around people living in the 18th century.

-t

[Delicious-Apples]

The iPhone does appear to be missing a few vital features (MMS, Video, Chat, GPS etc). Hopefully we'll get some 3rd Party support pretty soonish. It will still only be available on the WiFi networks tho I guess.

[kcmac]

I'm thinking that if the iPhone is successful, it will force the other carriers and phone makers to improve their crappy email and browsing experiences. MMS will not be necessary after awhile. Was MMS ever really meant to be THE solution, or was it just a next step above SMS?

Email done right is the future on cell phones. Apple will lead the way. The sooner the better. I am tired of crappy phones and the crapware on them.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by kcmac 

I'm thinking that if the iPhone is successful, it will force the other carriers and phone makers to improve their crappy email and browsing experiences. MMS will not be necessary after awhile. Was MMS ever really meant to be THE solution, or was it just a next step above SMS?

True, true.

-t

[starman]

I'd have to second guess whether or not I get it if MMS isn't supported.

[goMac]

I'm not buying until IM and GPS are supported.

Edit: Am I alone in wishing it had some expansion options? I'd love to have a barcode scanner on an iPhone for asset management at work. Maybe the rear mounted camera would work.

[Chuckit]

If they allow third-party expansion, the camera should be able to scan barcodes just like Delicious Library does with an iSight.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

If they allow third-party expansion, the camera should be able to scan barcodes just like Delicious Library does with an iSight.

Right, that's what I was thinking. I'm eager to hear what comes out of the keynote regarding iPhone apps. Sadly I couldn't make it to WWDC this year, but the iPhone is definitely a porting target for our custom asset management app. Hauling around a laptop is just a pain and a half.

I'm hoping we still get to use Cocoa. I've written an entire internal framework that cleanly bridges Cocoa to MySQL. It uses native Cocoa classes (NSPredicate, bindings, controllers, sort descriptors, etc), so if we got access to Cocoa even without bindings it wouldn't be a bad porting job.

[philm]

No MMS? Bit of shock, that. You'll be telling me it's not a 3G phone next.

[Velocity211]

Hmm, seems that not a lot of people use MMS, but I do, and a lot. I wouldn't call this a deal breaker but it's gonna be really hard for me without MMS.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by kcmac 

I'm thinking that if the iPhone is successful, it will force the other carriers and phone makers to improve their crappy email and browsing experiences. MMS will not be necessary after awhile. Was MMS ever really meant to be THE solution, or was it just a next step above SMS?

I don't care how the email "experience" is on a cell phone, I'm not going to use it as long as it costs so much that you have to sell your right arm in order to afford it.

[kiskynet]

MMS was designed by a mobile phone industry to find a way to monetize their crap camera phones. It's lame, hardly used most people don't know what it is (in comparison to something useful like SMS) and totally irrelavent when you have a decent email client which does attachments the way the iPhone does. Previously I imagine most phones / networks crippled this ability on anything but smart phones to force you into doing things in ways they could gouge you in the pocket for.

[chipchen]

Apple hasn't been successful in the past several years trying to build devices that do everything... They focus on building products that do a few things really well.

Look at the original iPod... how many features would you have wanted to add to it? Color screen, docking, recording, other file formats, etc, etc... even now the iPods are missing wifi, bluetooth, and a slew of other features that the Zune and other devices have.

[chipchen]

Oh, basically, I'm saying... the Apple built the iPhone to do a few things well... phone, iPod, internet (real internet, not mobile.. though we're seeing limitations)...

The 2nd and 3rd generations are obviously going to kick the original iPhone's ass.

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by kiskynet 

MMS was designed by a mobile phone industry to find a way to monetize their crap camera phones. It's lame, hardly used most people don't know what it is (in comparison to something useful like SMS) and totally irrelavent when you have a decent email client which does attachments the way the iPhone does. Previously I imagine most phones / networks crippled this ability on anything but smart phones to force you into doing things in ways they could gouge you in the pocket for.

No, most cell phone numbers in Europe are prepaid. Prepaid plans often do not offer email functionality or if they offer it, it's way too expensive because it requires internet access. MMS is supported by all carriers and doesn't cost and arm and a leg. It's supported by default just like SMS. You don't need to pay extra for that service.
Add to that that a lot of carriers block email ports and require you to get their most expensive data plans which are in turn unavailable to prepaid customers.

As such, like others said before, email clients are hardly used by anyone. I tried using it once (I have a normal plan, no prepaid) and it's was pain in the ass and slow and downright useless. MMS is much quicker, like SMS.
Email on a phone is only relevant for people who have push email.

Don't expect the iPhone to turn this trend around, not in Europe anyway. Not as long as prepaid reigns supreme.

That is for me the largest problem with the iPhone. Data on cell phones is still way to expensive for most people and the iPhone sort of requires it. And the lack of MMS doesn't help.

Bottom line: MMS remains necessary until email support comes free with your service or when it's at least as cheap as SMS or MMS.

[Judge_Fire]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger 

No, most cell phone numbers in Europe are prepaid.

That's a bit too broad a generalization, I think. Up here prepaid doesn't seem that popular.

But even in our monthly billed world, I agree with the MMS part- mobile email really hasn't caught on yet, making MMS the standard for pics and videos.

A Europe Edition of the iPhone should have 3G, MMS and no crappy lock-in to a spesific carrier. Up here, people switch service providers weekly, if given a better deal. (Without changing their phone number or phone, for that matter.)

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by Judge_Fire 

That's a bit too broad a generalization, I think. Up here prepaid doesn't seem that popular.

It may be a bit broad, yes. I agree. But the fact remains that the percentage of prepaid is much higher compared to the US. Our market situation is completely different. And I really hope that Apple realises this. And they need all the help they can get to realise this, Apple Europe is a bit slow.

I'll try and look for some stats on prepaid. The only number I've found so far was 24% prepaid users and that was in 1998. Almost 10 years ago. The PDF also told me that 76% of mobile users in europe is not interested in email on their phones. But I don't know how relevant that is since it's 1997-98 data.
I hate that you need to buy most data at ridiculous prices. Finding free statististics on the internet isn't easy. Or my google skills suck.

I also found that prepaid is only 2% in Finland, that explains a lot . And up to 90% in Italy. (but that's according to wikipedia).

Low-cost MVNOs Shake Up Stagnant Prepaid Mobile Market in this press release they claim that prepaid has a 60% market share.

[Amorya]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

No, MMS isn't essential, send e-mails, people!
I've been doing this in Japan a few years ago and people don't realize they don't need MMS, just attach the pic/video to an e-mail and send it. Since everybody had (and still has) push e-mails, you could send it not just to your friends' computers, but also to other cell phones.

I know all my friends' phone numbers but few of their email addresses. MMS is therefore a lot easier!

[Mithras]

The thing I don't get about MMS is this: So you use your phone's snazzy new 3 megapixel camera to snap a photo of yourself dangling over the Eiffel Tower railing or whatever. You then can either
(a) send it to a friend's email, where they'll view at their convenience on a 17" monitor. They laugh, enjoy it, zoom in, maybe make it a wallpaper or something.
or
(b) send it to their phone via MMS, where it immediately appears on a 176x134 pixel screen. They squint, make out some blue sky, realize from the phone number that it must be you, but can't really recognize you in the dark smudge.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Mithras 

The thing I don't get about MMS is this: So you use your phone's snazzy new 3 megapixel camera to snap a photo of yourself dangling over the Eiffel Tower railing or whatever. You then can either
(a) send it to a friend's email, where they'll view at their convenience on a 17" monitor. They laugh, enjoy it, zoom in, maybe make it a wallpaper or something.
or
(b) send it to their phone via MMS, where it immediately appears on a 176x134 pixel screen. They squint, make out some blue sky, realize from the phone number that it must be you, but can't really recognize you in the dark smudge.

My carrier allows me to send MMS to email, and it's the same price as MMS to MMS, and I don't have to set anything up.

However, if I send email to email, it's $$$$, and I have to go through an annoying config process to set it up.

I'm in Canada, but my understanding is many European and US carriers are the same way.

P.S. If I'm sending MMS to a phone, it will be maybe 30-50 KB. If I send MMS to email, I'll use a picture size of maybe 200-300 KB.

It's possible the iPhone will come with some killer prices for data plans, but I suspect they'll be locked to that phone and not usable with other phones. If so, I'm not interested.

[His Dudeness]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger 

Yup the lack of MMS is pretty retarded.

There is always something or some piece lacking from Apple's hardware. In this case it's MMS. Something pretty essential these days.

You know, I have no clue what the difference between a text message and an SMS is... and people don't actually TALK on the cell phone anymore?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by His Dudeness 

You know, I have no clue what the difference between a text message and an SMS is... and people don't actually TALK on the cell phone anymore?

SMS = Text message.
MMS = Picture or video message, with or without text.

[JoshuaZ]

I can't believe the iPhone doesn't....

have a camera on front for video chats.
require you to buy .Mac.
doesn't have a whole bunch of deals lines up with online webpages.
break when touching it.
make your girlfriend like you more.
make sweet sweet love to you at night.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ 

make your girlfriend like you more.
make sweet sweet love to you at night.

Did they remove those features? I know they were in the top secret version I tried. But then my girlfriend got jealous of the phone and it was really kind of a disaster.

[Mithras]

Hmm, so maybe I use MMS without realizing it -- if sending photos directly to email addresses is ordinarily handled via MMS... Okay, then that is silly, but I imagine the camera<->email binding will be pretty tight on the iPhone, so it should be fine.

JoshuaZ, I actually agree that the iPhone really should have a front-mounted camera for iChat.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Goldfinger

No, most cell phone numbers in Europe are prepaid. Prepaid plans often do not offer email functionality or if they offer it, it's way too expensive because it requires internet access. MMS is supported by all carriers and doesn't cost and arm and a leg. It's supported by default just like SMS. You don't need to pay extra for that service.
Add to that that a lot of carriers block email ports and require you to get their most expensive data plans which are in turn unavailable to prepaid customers.

I see Belgium’s a lot different from Denmark. My boyfriend’s carrier (prepaid) doesn’t support MMS at all, but it does support e-mail. My carrier (also prepaid, but of the slightly more expensive kind, though definitely still discount pricing) does support MMS, but it costs an arm and a leg: 20 Euros for opening up the MMS capabilities, and then about 60 cents (Euro) to send an MMS. Opening up e-mail support is free, and using it is free as well—it only charges by the amount of data sent or received, which is relatively cheap (about 1 Euro per MB).

I don’t know exactly how it works with other carriers, but I only know one or two people who ever use MMS. In my circle of acquaintances, at least, MMS is almost nonexistent. Using e-mail on your mobile isn’t all that common, either, but more so than MMS, at least.