[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug 

For this reason, some HD DVD companies are claiming that TL HD DVD is still cheaper and easier to make than DL Blu-ray.

When this whole war first started I mentioned that this wouldn't be an issue though and it has proven true now as both disks formats are the same price per movie and blu-ray's lineup this year of movies is the same or bigger than HD-DVD's.

I got a couple 50 gig Blu-ray disks now and they were cheap. At least 50% of sony's upcoming titles are also 50 gig which they decide if they are going to use or not depending on movie length, extra's etc.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

When this whole war first started I mentioned that this wouldn't be an issue though and it has proven true now as both disks formats are the same price per movie and blu-ray's lineup this year of movies is the same or bigger than HD-DVD's.

I got a couple 50 gig Blu-ray disks now and they were cheap. At least 50% of sony's upcoming titles are also 50 gig which they decide if they are going to use or not depending on movie length, extra's etc.

The discs are priced the same, but it costs the studios MUCH more to make BD50 than it does to make HD30. Not even in the same league apparently.

To give you an idea... Not only does it cost more to master BD50, it takes 2.5s to make one dual-layer HD DVD, and over 4s to make one dual-layer Blu-ray disc. Obviously, this translates into a significant per disc cost difference. Furthermore, only a few replicators are capable of making BD50. Almost all the non-Sony Blu-ray replicators are only making BD25, with BD50 only in the testing phase.

In addition, it still costs several million bux to implement a Blu-ray stamping line. It is several times cheaper to implement HD DVD stamping equipment, partially because it just involves an update to current DVD stamping machines.

While you may not see the cost difference in your purchased Blu-ray discs from say Warner, this has a huge impact on the smaller studios, because they can't easily just eat the cost difference for producing the discs.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug 

The discs are priced the same, but it costs the studios MUCH more to make BD50 than it does to make HD30. Not even in the same league apparently.

To give you an idea... Not only does it cost more to master BD50, it takes 2.5s to make one dual-layer HD DVD, and over 4s to make one dual-layer Blu-ray disc. Obviously, this translates into a significant per disc cost difference. Furthermore, only a few replicators are capable of making BD50. Almost all the non-Sony Blu-ray replicators are only making BD25, with BD50 only in the testing phase.

Hey I believe you. Problem is consumer don't give a crap as long as the end price is good.

As for studio support Blu-ray has more so it looks like that didn't make much of a difference either.


As for the porn:
No Porn On Blu-ray? Not Quite - Gizmodo

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Hey I believe you. Problem is consumer don't give a crap as long as the end price is good.

As for studio support Blu-ray has more so it looks like that didn't make much of a difference either.


As for the porn:
No Porn On Blu-ray? Not Quite - Gizmodo

Consumers will give a crap if the smaller studios simply skip Bluray.

Neither format is in a position to force studios into a format. At this point, the studios are going to be the ones choosing.

Speaking of price, you're just assuming the consumers are going to eat the $500 more for a Bluray player. What was that about the end price being good?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Speaking of price, you're just assuming the consumers are going to eat the $500 more for a Bluray player. What was that about the end price being good?

Current Gen HD-DVD players and PS3's are the same price or damn near.

a 360 + HD is more than a PS3 in most configs.

And my point about the high manufacturing cost is for disks and so far Blu-ray is the same price and sometimes even cheaper so all that fuss was about nothing.

Small studio's ability to put a movie on either format are not going to end a war. The big rich ones will.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Current Gen HD-DVD players and PS3's are the same price or damn near.

a 360 + HD is more than a PS3 in most configs.

And my point about the high manufacturing cost is for disks and so far Blu-ray is the same price and sometimes even cheaper so all that fuss was about nothing.

Small studio's ability to put a movie on either format are not going to end a war. The big rich ones will.

The average person is not going to buy a PS3 for Bluray. The average person does not even know the PS3 has Bluray. Consumers are going to feel uncomfortable buying a game machine they don't want when all they do want is a Bluray player.

Stores aren't going to want to sell PS3's for Bluray players (and if you look, the PS3's aren't selling as game systems or Bluray players). They make less money selling the PS3. And the last thing they want to do is deal with some customer coming back in wondering where the heck their normal remote is and how they navigate through a whole menu of game options they never cared about to begin with.

If the PS3 is so gosh darn cheap, one has to wonder why Sony doesn't just make a Bluray player that is cheaper than the PS3. My girlfriends parents had a PS2 as a DVD player, and they were pretty happy to give that thing the boot and replace it with a normal DVD player. Sure, they could play games on it, but they didn't care. They hated the control scheme for the Sony DVD player and hated having to use a game controller to control DVD's. At the end of the day, they just went with a normal DVD player.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by goMac 

The average person is not going to buy a PS3 for Bluray. The average person does not even know the PS3 has Bluray.

Can you show me data to support that because the last data to come out (not your guesses) showed that 80% of PS3 owners plan to use it as their main DVD player/entertainment centre and at least 25% plan on buying Blu-ray movies.

With 2 million shipped and a modest estimate of 1 in 4 PS3 owners buying a blu-ray movie it already puts it ahead of HD-DVD.

But lets forget that for now and check back in 6 months where there is some more real data.

[Eug]

The PS3 is not a proper Blu-ray player IMO. AFAIK, it won't output 1080i from 720p material (and HD porn is apparently often 720p), and there is no IR support. Hell, it doesn't even come with a remote.

The cheapest one is also $100 more (street) than the Toshiba HD-A2, which is a proper HD DVD player.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Can you show me data to support that because the last data to come out (not your guesses) showed that 80% of PS3 owners plan to use it as their main DVD player/entertainment centre and at least 25% plan on buying Blu-ray movies.

With 2 million shipped and a modest estimate of 1 in 4 PS3 owners buying a blu-ray movie it already puts it ahead of HD-DVD.

But lets forget that for now and check back in 6 months where there is some more real data.

Those numbers don't disprove my point at all. 80% of people planned to use it as their DVD player. That doesn't mean 80% of people bought it specifically to replace their DVD player. Or that 80% bought it primarily to play Bluray movies.

Instead, your numbers say that 80% of people plan to play DVD's on it, and only 25% plan to play Bluray movies on it. And most likely, these are people who bought it as a game system who get the fringe benefit of it playing DVD's. These numbers say nothing about the PS3 selling specifically as a Bluray player solution.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Eug 

... and HD porn is apparently often 720p ...

Apparently the porn industry is going with HD-DVD because it's cheaper, so it won't even work on their PS3. They'll have to settle for Extreme Beach Volleyball.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Apparently the porn industry is going with HD-DVD because it's cheaper, so it won't even work on their PS3. They'll have to settle for Extreme Beach Volleyball.

They're going with HD DVD because:

1) It's cheaper.
2) Sony and/or other replicators is blocking them from getting their Blu-ray discs replicated. Vivid DOES have a Blu-ray replicator, but even they say the Blu-ray replicators said no for the most part. Vivid had a very tough time getting one too. Nobody else in the porn industry has yet been able to get a replicator for Blu-ray. I've heard 3 different companies say this so far. So... Everyone on the porn side in the US is HD DVD, with one of them doing both HD DVD and Blu-ray.

BTW, this isn't affecting only the porn companies. I've heard at least one non-porn company that has some lesser known movies with lots of graphic content that has also been refused.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Those numbers don't disprove my point at all. 80% of people planned to use it as their DVD player. That doesn't mean 80% of people bought it specifically to replace their DVD player. Or that 80% bought it primarily to play Bluray movies.

Instead, your numbers say that 80% of people plan to play DVD's on it, and only 25% plan to play Bluray movies on it. And most likely, these are people who bought it as a game system who get the fringe benefit of it playing DVD's. These numbers say nothing about the PS3 selling specifically as a Bluray player solution.

Granted, I am far from average but I bought a PS3 to primarily use as a Blu-Ray player. Games are an added bonus.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa 

Granted, I am far from average but I bought a PS3 to primarily use as a Blu-Ray player. Games are an added bonus.

Sure, especially among to more technical crowd there are going to be many more exceptions. But bring the average consumer into a Best Buy, and when the salesman starts talking about the PS3 and all the accessories that one would need to get it working like a normal Bluray player (remote, etc), their eyes will start to glaze over and they'll start looking at HD DVD.

The average consumer just wants everything in one box that works as closely to their last player as possible. The PS3 does not satisfy these needs.

Not to mention the more technical users are the ones more inclined to pirate anyways. I don't think the movie studios are going to go out of their way to release movies in a format of choice of that crowd.

[Buckaroo]

I wonder if this will have any affect on the decision of which to go with.

[H]ard|OCP - www.hardocp.com

[Buckaroo]

Darn, someone else already noticed.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by goMac 

The average person is not going to buy a PS3 for Bluray. The average person does not even know the PS3 has Bluray. Consumers are going to feel uncomfortable buying a game machine they don't want when all they do want is a Bluray player.

All this talk about people buying the PS3 just as a Blu-ray player really misses the point. It's not about people buying the PS3 just to watch movies (although some may do so at the very beginning). It's about people who would be buying the PS3 anyway finding themselves with a Blu-ray player. Many of these people are going to start buying Blu-ray movies. Even if HD-DVD players are cheaper than Blu-ray players, very few PS3 owners will go out and spend several hundred dollars for an HD-DVD player when they already have a Blu-ray player. It's as simple as that, and that's the advantage that Sony's going for.

But bring the average consumer into a Best Buy, and when the salesman starts talking about the PS3 and all the accessories that one would need to get it working like a normal Bluray player (remote, etc), their eyes will start to glaze over and they'll start looking at HD DVD.

"Remote, etc?" What else do you think you need?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by icruise 

All this talk about people buying the PS3 just as a Blu-ray player really misses the point. It's not about people buying the PS3 just to watch movies (although some may do so at the very beginning). It's about people who would be buying the PS3 anyway finding themselves with a Blu-ray player. Many of these people are going to start buying Blu-ray movies. Even if HD-DVD players are cheaper than Blu-ray players, very few PS3 owners will go out and spend several hundred dollars for an HD-DVD player when they already have a Blu-ray player. It's as simple as that, and that's the advantage that Sony's going for.

This isn't going to be the average consumer, and isn't going to give Bluray critical mass. I wasn't even the one who brought up the idea of the PS3 being a cheap Bluray player for the normal consumer.

[Eug]

Hmmm...

MS claims that the Star Trek movies will be exclusive to HD DVD for 2007.

"For instance, the Matrix trilogy will be coming out this year from WHV, Star Trek will be exclusive to HD DVD this year, Babel and The Good Shepherd. All in all there will be over 600 HD DVD titles by EOY."

"Also, don't forget that HD DVD does NOT have region control, so you can get really good titles from Japan and Europe and play them on your HD DVD player in the US. For instance, The Rambo series is out from Studio Canal in Europe along with Basic Instinct. In the US, these are BD titles."


Also,

"Region coding has been discussed in the DVD Forum Steering Committe, but nothing is currently being done about it. It is in an investigation phase. There are 20 companines on the DVD Forum Steering committe and many oppose region coding. Also, there is no way to back retrofit the existing HD DVD players to enforce region coding. So, this is another advantage of HD DVD over the other formats.

w00t!

Originally Posted by icruise 

All this talk about people buying the PS3 just as a Blu-ray player really misses the point. It's not about people buying the PS3 just to watch movies (although some may do so at the very beginning). It's about people who would be buying the PS3 anyway finding themselves with a Blu-ray player. Many of these people are going to start buying Blu-ray movies. Even if HD-DVD players are cheaper than Blu-ray players, very few PS3 owners will go out and spend several hundred dollars for an HD-DVD player when they already have a Blu-ray player. It's as simple as that, and that's the advantage that Sony's going for.

Unfortunately, the sales numbers aren't as high as Sony was hoping for it seems.

[icruise]

So you think the PS3 has sold all it's going to sell?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by icruise 

So you think the PS3 has sold all it's going to sell?

I don't think anyone thinks the PS3 has suddenly stopped selling entirely. But PS3 demand is in a strongly downward trend. Wii demand has stayed high, no one can still keep Wii's in stock. And the XBox 360 demand is staying the same.

Sony will eventually do a price drop or something to get the PS3 selling again. But the slow sales of the PS3 will hurt the adoption of all the various platforms that the PS3 is pushing, including Bluray.

[icruise]

Even if the PS3 sales are disappointing, even if they eventually come in 3rd in the console race, they are still getting *millions* of Blu-ray players out there, and I think it could easily be enough to push Blu-ray over the top. According to this article, there have only been 120,000 standalone HD-DVD players sold. That number (and the number of standalone Blu-ray players -- 25,000) is so small as to be laughable. This contest hasn't even begun in earnest, but so far, 80% of the HD movie players in the US are part of game consoles. Just think about that for a second and tell me that the PS3 doesn't give Sony a huge advantage.

Combine the number of standalone players with 150,000 Xbox 360 HD-DVD add-ons, and you get an installed base of 270,000 for HD-DVD. The PS3 already has already sold (not just shipped) more than twice that many in the US (and by now closer to three times). The article is a little dated since it doesn't include December sales.

Sony will eventually do a price drop or something to get the PS3 selling again. But the slow sales of the PS3 will hurt the adoption of all the various platforms that the PS3 is pushing, including Bluray.

A price drop? How about, oh I don't know... Putting out some good games? It still amazes me how people are so ready to judge a system based on its launch games. When the Xbox 360 came out, the Dreamcast comparisons abounded. The lackluster launch games and hardware issues made its future seem pretty doubtful and yet look at it today. Frankly, given its rather uninspired launch library, I'm surprised the PS3 is selling as well as it is (faster than the 360 or even the PS2 at this stage in their lives).

[- - e r i k - -]

3rd in the console race? There is only two players in the console race - PS3 and Xbox 360. The Wii is something completely separate altogether - especially in this context where one is talking format race between HD DVD and Blu-Ray as it has neither.

[icruise]

You can argue that the Wii is not trying to compete on the same field as the other two consoles, but the fact of the matter is that Nintendo is competing for a share of the same market, and the Wii has a number of the same games as the other two systems, so yeah they're definitely in the console race.

It is true that they have relatively little to do with the Blu-ray/HD-DVD issue, but then again I didn't say that they did. I predict that even the 360 will have a pretty minor effect on the winner of the format war, when all is said and done, and that's because they didn't bundle the drive. (Whether that was the right choice or not from the consumer's point of view is another matter.)

[goMac]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Even if the PS3 sales are disappointing, even if they eventually come in 3rd in the console race, they are still getting *millions* of Blu-ray players out there, and I think it could easily be enough to push Blu-ray over the top. According to this article, there have only been 120,000 standalone HD-DVD players sold. That number (and the number of standalone Blu-ray players -- 25,000) is so small as to be laughable. This contest hasn't even begun in earnest, but so far, 80% of the HD movie players in the US are part of game consoles. Just think about that for a second and tell me that the PS3 doesn't give Sony a huge advantage.

The PS3 is not going to translate into an advantage for normal consumers. (Interesting stats you have there, Microsoft is claiming that they have sold, not shipped, 130,000 HD-DVD drives for the XBox 360 alone). Not to mention SWG's own stats claim that only 25% of PS3 buyers plan on using the console for Bluray. That doesn't translate to much of an advantage for Bluray. If Microsoft's momentum continues, it won't be long until they pass by Sony's active PS3 Bluray user base.

Originally Posted by icruise 

Combine the number of standalone players with 150,000 Xbox 360 HD-DVD add-ons, and you get an installed base of 270,000 for HD-DVD. The PS3 already has already sold (not just shipped) more than twice that many in the US (and by now closer to three times). The article is a little dated since it doesn't include December sales.

Ok, now we're counting XBox 360 HD-DVD units. Again, according to SWG's own stats, only 25% of consumers plan on using the Bluray. The number of people buying PS3's won't matter until they start buying movies. Even if a lot of those users decide a year or two from now they want to start using that Bluray drive, it doesn't help Bluray now. And again, the average consumer is going to decide this war, not a million or two gaming geeks who have PS3's. In terms of installed base, a few million is a drop in the bucket.

People buying HD-DVD's are doing so out of definite support for that format. You can't say the same thing about PS3 buyers.

Originally Posted by icruise 

A price drop? How about, oh I don't know... Putting out some good games? It still amazes me how people are so ready to judge a system based on its launch games. When the Xbox 360 came out, the Dreamcast comparisons abounded. The lackluster launch games and hardware issues made its future seem pretty doubtful and yet look at it today. Frankly, given its rather uninspired launch library, I'm surprised the PS3 is selling as well as it is (faster than the 360 or even the PS2 at this stage in their lives).

A large majority of people aren't going to care what games come out for a console they can't afford to begin with.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by goMac 

The PS3 is not going to translate into an advantage for normal consumers. (Interesting stats you have there, Microsoft is claiming that they have sold, not shipped, 130,000 HD-DVD drives for the XBox 360 alone). Not to mention SWG's own stats claim that only 25% of PS3 buyers plan on using the console for Bluray. That doesn't translate to much of an advantage for Bluray. If Microsoft's momentum continues, it won't be long until they pass by Sony's active PS3 Bluray user base.

Ummm.

130,000 HD-DVD + 120,000 (Standalone HD-DVD players = 250,000 HD-DVD

PS3 has sold to this day 2 Million PS3s. 25% of them use the player for Blu Ray = 500,000

500,000 Blu Ray + 25,000 (Standalone Blu Ray players = 525,000 Blu Ray


PS3 doesn't have an advantage in the war? I think icruise and Dark Helmet have a point here.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

PS3 has sold to this day 2 Million PS3s. 25% of them use the player for Blu Ray = 500,000

Your numbers have issues. First off, the article you've quoted no where states that the PS3 has 2 million units. Instead, it states Sony has shipped two million units worldwide. U.S. sales of the PS3 have only been estimated only in the 700,000 units range. By SWG's numbers, that would put US PS3 Bluray users at 175,000. Microsoft is reporting 175k HD-DVD XBox drives sold, not shipped last year. That would put HD-DVD and Bluray about even just on consoles.

Sony does love them fine prints.

[Dakar²]

Why am I not surprised you're arguing against Sony.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Not to mention SWG's own stats claim that only 25% of PS3 buyers plan on using the console for Bluray.

Where do you get 25% from? The survey that Sony mentioned in their press release said that more than 80% of PS3 users planned to use it for BD movies. 75% said they were going to use it as their main means of watching movies.

So how might the PS3 affect the outcome of the format war? The BDA cites a survey in conducted by talking to 10,000 US PS3 owners. It claims more than 80 per cent plan to buy movies on BD. A slightly smaller percentage, just over 75 per cent, said they plan to use their console as their prime device for watching movies.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Where do you get 25% from? The survey that Sony mentioned in their press release said that more than 80% of PS3 users planned to use it for BD movies. 75% said they were going to use it as their main means of watching movies.

SWG.

[icruise]

Where? In this thread? And since when did you start quoting SWG as an authority on anything?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by icruise 

Where? In this thread? And since when did you start quoting SWG as an authority on anything?

Originally Posted by The SWG

Can you show me data to support that because the last data to come out (not your guesses) showed that 80% of PS3 owners plan to use it as their main DVD player/entertainment centre and at least 25% plan on buying Blu-ray movies.

I don't know where he got it from, he didn't link to a source.

[icruise]

Sounds like he got the numbers from the survey I quoted mixed up.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Your numbers have issues. First off, the article you've quoted no where states that the PS3 has 2 million units. Instead, it states Sony has shipped two million units worldwide. U.S. sales of the PS3 have only been estimated only in the 700,000 units range. By SWG's numbers, that would put US PS3 Bluray users at 175,000. Microsoft is reporting 175k HD-DVD XBox drives sold, not shipped last year. That would put HD-DVD and Bluray about even just on consoles.

Sony does love them fine prints.

Read it however you like. The point is. The PS3 still is a major factor in the numbers like they said.

You want the new numbers? Point still proven, either way.

700,000(80%) 640,000

640,000 + 25,000 = 665,000 Blu Ray
130,000 + 120,000 = 250,000 HD-DVD

[Eug]

Disc sales are similar in 2007 in the US for Blu-ray and HD DVD, despite all the PS3s out there.

And in 2006, HD DVD discs outsold Blu-ray discs 2:1.

[icruise]

How do you explain the Sony Pictures World Wide Entertainment president's comments that his company's Blu-ray disc sales had gone up 700% since the introduction of the PS3?

[Uriel]

I'm not for either format yet but...

Blu-ray disc sales...

From what I understand the keyword there makes a huge difference. As "disc" includes games AND movies. This is the big issue with that statement over at the AVS forums.

However, it could be wrong.

[Uriel]

I would really like to jump into the Blu-Ray market. I have a 360 HD-DVD player that I got for $140 and I love it. The only reason I haven't got a Blu-Ray is because of the price of a player. I already had a 360 so it was no big deal.

However quotes like this make me think I might wait a while before I get a Blu-Ray player.

When will Blu-ray players drop in price to become a mainstream product?

Glasgow: If you go back to when DVDs came into play, it took about three years until they got into price points of $299 to $399. I suspect it's about the same thing here with Blu-ray. I think it's going to take up to three years to get down to those price points, possibly a little longer.

http://news.com.com/Sonys+brave+Sir+...3-6150661.html

This is a funny quote:

I did read all the HD DVD excitement, but I think they sold 60,000 discs, and we actually put out a million.

I just laugh at how this war is bringing out the worst "spin" on both sides.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Uriel 

Sony's brave Sir Howard | Newsmakers | CNET News.com

This is a funny quote:

I did read all the HD DVD excitement, but I think they sold 60,000 discs, and we actually put out a million.

I just laugh at how this war is bringing out the worst "spin" on both sides.

Yeah, by that claim, Blu-ray discs outsold HD DVD 17:1.

That's amusing because Fox just claimed that in the week of Xmas, Blu-ray disc sales finally just caught up with HD DVD disc sales and surpassed it by a bit... for that week. And Warner said that HD DVD sales (for all studios) outsold Blu-ray 2:1 in 2006. Furthermore, a while back, the HD DVD group claimed something like 1.5 million disc sales.

If I were a studio head, I'd be worried when the head of Sony makes such boneheaded comments.

P.S. There is a claim now that one can get Blu-ray title keys from the PS3, although it requires a Linux install.

[Montezuma58]

Originally Posted by Uriel 

I would really like to jump into the Blu-Ray market. I have a 360 HD-DVD player that I got for $140 and I love it. The only reason I haven't got a Blu-Ray is because of the price of a player. I already had a 360 so it was no big deal.

However quotes like this make me think I might wait a while before I get a Blu-Ray player.



http://news.com.com/Sonys+brave+Sir+...3-6150661.html

This is a funny quote:



I just laugh at how this war is bringing out the worst "spin" on both sides.

An even funnier quote:

The people who like Blu-ray are the people who play PlayStation 3, just as people who play PS2s were the early proponents of the DVD format. It drove the DVD format.

I don't really think the PS2 was crucial to the success of DVD. As it is now BD is the PS3. BD really needs to spread beyond the game console market if it is going to be a long term success. If the guy is serious when he says two to three years for $300 to $400 BD players then BD is in trouble. You can easily get the Toshiba HD-A2 for $400 right now.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by Uriel 

I'm not for either format yet but...

From what I understand the keyword there makes a huge difference. As "disc" includes games AND movies. This is the big issue with that statement over at the AVS forums.

However, it could be wrong.

Sony Pictures only puts out movies.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Disc sales are similar in 2007 in the US for Blu-ray and HD DVD, despite all the PS3s out there.

And in 2006, HD DVD discs outsold Blu-ray discs 2:1.

And in November once the PS3 came out, they pulled into deadlock within 2 months. Seems the PS3 is one hell of a factor, which is what I'm trying to say.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

And in November once the PS3 came out, they pulled into deadlock within 2 months. Seems the PS3 is one hell of a factor, which is what I'm trying to say.

Yup they sure did which is remarkable considering by the end of the year there was only about 1 million PS3's worldwide if that many and 10 million 360 users with the option to get HD-DVD if they want. HD-DVD ad ons for the 360 sold 96,000 out of the 10 million 360's in the wild, much lower than I thought they would.

HD-DVD also had a large head start in both stand alone players and titles.

Anywho that LG player is still shipping just without the HD-DVD logo on it:
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-ente...ogo-229296.php

Stupid player anyway as for $1200 you can get a high end PS3 and a stand alone HD-DVD player for the same cost.

[Eug]

Yup, this is exactly where Sony does NOT want to be. Sony wanted Blu-ray to blow HD DVD out of the water right from launch, but obviously that never happened. The second chance was with the PS3, but Sony managed to screw up that launch as well. It's a stalemate, which is what I've been predicting would happen since last year.

One interesting point... Sony Electronics prez Glasgow says that he doesn't expect standalone Blu-ray players will be available at $299 until 2010.

If that's true, then that's a serious problem for Blu-ray. I'd expect $299 standalone HD DVD players out by 2008.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug 

One interesting point... Sony Electronics prez Glasgow says that he doesn't expect standalone Blu-ray players will be available at $299 until 2010.

If that's true, then that's a serious problem for Blu-ray. I'd expect $299 standalone HD DVD players out by 2008.

I thought so too at first but remember people who want/need blu-ray are hooking it up to very expensive TV's. I don't think another $200 is going to turn them all away.

If it is young consumers they are after well then the $400 PS3 should be just fine.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I thought so too at first but remember people who want/need blu-ray are hooking it up to very expensive TV's. I don't think another $200 is going to turn them all away.

If it is young consumers they are after well then the $400 PS3 should be just fine.

HDTV's are down in the sub-$1000 range. In a lot of cases, the Bluray player can be more expensive than the TV. I saw a 1080p LCD the other day for $800.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I thought so too at first but remember people who want/need blu-ray are hooking it up to very expensive TV's. I don't think another $200 is going to turn them all away.

If it is young consumers they are after well then the $400 PS3 should be just fine.

Personally I don't think either format will take off until they hit the $299 and $199 price points.

$400 is simply too expensive, especially when everyone already has a DVD player.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I saw a 1080p LCD the other day for $800.

Oh absolutely, i am sure that quality display will really showcase Blu-ray. Anyone with those high quality standards and budget is sure to spend another $400 for a player.

More likely they will hook up a no name $40 region free DVD player to it and be happy.

All this aside I think we need to drop this argument until mid year when more sales numbers come out.

Right now both companies have quality titles and inexpensive player options so it is up to consumers to decide.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Oh absolutely, i am sure that quality display will really showcase Blu-ray. Anyone with those high quality standards and budget is sure to spend another $400 for a player.

So basically you're saying that J6P need not apply.

If that's the case, then it will fail miserably.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug 

So basically you're saying that J6P need not apply.

If that's the case, then it will fail miserably.

Sorry I don't even know what that is.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Sorry I don't even know what that is.

Joe six pack = The average person.