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Blu-ray/HD DVD... Who is winning? (Page 112)
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Originally Posted by goMac 
Yes, it would be a glorified DVD player, and again, I think this would be the only way for HD-DVD to survive. Sell them as glorified DVD players, hope some of those people you sell to pick up HD-DVD's on the side, and then maybe if you last long enough and gain enough of an install base you can convince a few studios to go neutral a year or two down the road.
There is no way the prosumer crowd is going to be convinced to go HD-DVD at this point.
Maybe if it was early in the game, but it's near the end of the game. Sell HDDVD movies or die. There is no one or two year down the road. It's the next few months or that's it.
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Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
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Originally Posted by goMac
I'm hoping that this post was just to inform SWG. Otherwise the Bluray crowd would be completely devoid of any sense of sarcasm. 
Do me a favor and stop mentioning me when you don't know something.
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Originally Posted by Shaddim
Since most of the people I know who bought HD-DVD players at Christmas sent/took their units back, after Warner Bros' announcement, I don't know how well this will work.
Most of the people you know? How many is that? What you are saying just isn't true. There are only a few who returned them.
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Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
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Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES
Do me a favor and stop mentioning me when you don't know something.
You're right. I had no idea that Dell and Alienware shipped computers with Bluray.
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Originally Posted by Kerrigan
What would one use home-made hi def disks for, other than piracy? Be honest.. a majority of the uses would be piracy-related.
Hidef home movies and wedding videos maybe? Never own a camcorder?
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Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
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Originally Posted by Kerrigan
What would one use home-made hi def disks for, other than piracy? Be honest.. a majority of the uses would be piracy-related.
We have an HD camera here at work and shoot plenty of video with it. As it stands we have to convert it for DVD. Would be nice to be able to burn it to an HD viewable format as well.
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I'm sure a solution to that will come. But we all know that there is far more pirated content available to anyone with a PC and an internet connection, and that most people aren't going to be using rip/burn features to make wedding videos.
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Originally Posted by Kerrigan
I'm sure a solution to that will come. But we all know that there is far more pirated content available to anyone with a PC and an internet connection, and that most people aren't going to be using rip/burn features to make wedding videos.
You mean since most PC owners with a DVD burner have an internet connection to download movies and DVD iso, no one is buying DVDs anymore?
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Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
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Originally Posted by Eug
I dunno but this guy went through all sorts of speakers and amps. I swear he must have spent $30000 on a 2-channel stereo system after all was said and done. Personally I thought he was nuts, but short version is that every time he auditioned SACD for me I was completely unimpressed... just like I've been less than enthused with DVD-A (which I own).
This isn't very surprising. I've auditioned many systems that looked great on paper, and cost well in excess of $50K, which were poorly implemented or ineffectively setup. However, just because something is on SACD or DVD-A doesn't mean it's automatically going to be better than CD, I've listened to too many poorly mixed discs. Not to mention, most rock/pop music is limited in it's dynamic range, due to compression and poor mastering techniques, and isn't likely going to benefit from higher resolution formats. Considering, however, how much classical I listen to, I've really enjoyed my Integra DPS-10.5.
I can't wait until Integra Research releases their universal Blu-ray, DVD, SACD, etc. etc. player. May even buy the thing new, and I almost never do that sort of thing.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Originally Posted by hyteckit
Most of the people you know? How many is that? What you are saying just isn't true. There are only a few who returned them.
It's just ancedotal, but I know 10 people who bought those ultra-cheap players during x-mas, and 7 took them back after WB made their announcement. They weren't very amused.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
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Originally Posted by Shaddim
It's just ancedotal, but I know 10 people who bought those ultra-cheap players during x-mas, and 7 took them back after WB made their announcement. They weren't very amused.
For every anecdote that says there are many returns after the WB announcement, there are more anecdote that says otherwise. Retailers and Toshiba already said it wasn't true.
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Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
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Originally Posted by Kerrigan
What would one use home-made hi def disks for, other than piracy? Be honest.. a majority of the uses would be piracy-related.
My friend brought over his HD camcorder last week and I was testing it out.
HD camcorders are extremely common now, considering they're in the sub $1000 price range already. If I were buying a camcorder today, I'd only consider an HD one.
Originally Posted by Kerrigan
I'm sure a solution to that will come. But we all know that there is far more pirated content available to anyone with a PC and an internet connection, and that most people aren't going to be using rip/burn features to make wedding videos.
I guess you've never used iDVD then. Camcorders are extremely popular, and iDVD is a great complement to that. HD is just the next step.
It would be very easy to add HD DVD support to iDVD (since it already exists in DVD SP and in some ways it's like a DVD on steroids), but it doesn't seem they can realistically add Blu-ray to that at the moment. (We'll see tomorrow, but I would be very surprised if they added Blu-ray to iDVD at Macworld.) It seems the Blu-ray manufacturers must be intentionally preventing this, because otherwise I just can't explain it. For example, although the concept exists, Blu-ray on DVD-R simply doesn't work at the moment. The PS3 can't play back Blu-ray on DVD-R. The PS3 (along with Sony and Panasonic Blu-ray standalones) can play back AVCHD (which is very similar to Blu-ray) on DVD-R, but AVCHD is not an official Blu-ray format. I think they're doing this to push people to use AVCHD, since it's another format that Sony developed (along with Panasonic). So who cares if it's an official format or not? Well, if you burn AVCHD instead of proper Blu-ray, it won't work on many standalone Blu-ray players cuz, well, it's not proper Blu-ray.
Besides the AVCHD angle, I guess they're afraid of piracy as you suggest... yet they allow burning of the exact same stuff to BD-R. Burn a true Blu-ray project to BD-R and it works, but burn it to DVD-R and it doesn't... even if it's some wedding video that's only 20 minutes long and only takes up 2 GB. Burn it to DVD-R in HD DVD format, and it works just fine, an all HD DVD players ever made. And basic HD DVDs like that (if using MPEG2 or AVC) will work in DVD Player too on Macs.
The ironic part of all of this Blu-ray seems quite ill-suited for home computers at this time, despite its very nice 25/50 GB storage capacity.
Originally Posted by Shaddim
This isn't very surprising. I've auditioned many systems that looked great on paper, and cost well in excess of $50K, which were poorly implemented or ineffectively setup. However, just because something is on SACD or DVD-A doesn't mean it's automatically going to be better than CD, I've listened to too many poorly mixed discs. Not to mention, most rock/pop music is limited in it's dynamic range, due to compression and poor mastering techniques, and isn't likely going to benefit from higher resolution formats. Considering, however, how much classical I listen to, I've really enjoyed my Integra DPS-10.5.
Which is why DVD-A and SACD were doomed to failure. Spend $30000 and it still sounds the same.
With hi-def media, you can see a significant improvement on hardware available at Wal-Mart.
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Last edited by Eug; Jan 14, 2008 at 07:05 PM.
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Originally Posted by hyteckit
For every anecdote that says there are many returns after the WB announcement, there are more anecdote that says otherwise. Retailers and Toshiba already said it wasn't true.
Well, Grrrr! Be defensive.  I'm just telling what I've witnessed.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Originally Posted by Eug
Which is why DVD-A and SACD were doomed to failure. Spend $30000 and it still sounds the same.
For most rock discs, that is true. I still buy the SACD versions of most things, if I can, but just because they're hybrid media.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
- Thomas Paine
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Originally Posted by Shaddim
Well, Grrrr! Be defensive. I'm just telling what I've witnessed.
I'm not being defensive against what you witness. I'm was merely countering your defensive argument that most people are returning their HDDVD players solely based on your anecdotal evidence.
If you have said what you had witness most of your friends had return their HDDVD player after the Warner annoucement, I wouldn't have said a word. But you are making generalize claims that most people are returning their HDDVD players after the Warner announcement.
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Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
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Originally Posted by hyteckit
I'm not being defensive against what you witness. I'm was merely countering your defensive argument that most people are returning their HDDVD players solely based on your anecdotal evidence.
If you have said what you had witness most of your friends had return their HDDVD player after the Warner annoucement, I wouldn't have said a word. But you are making generalize claims that most people are returning their HDDVD players after the Warner announcement.
No, I wasn't "making generalize claims that most people are returning their HDDVD players". I said, "Since most of the people I know who bought HD-DVD players at Christmas sent/took their units back, after Warner Bros' announcement, I don't know how well this will work".
I never made a "defensive argument", whatever that is.
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"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it."
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Originally Posted by jokell82
Nobody has been "snapping up BR movies" just like no one was snapping up HD DVD movies. Both formats sell way too few copies to be considered a success.
Who has ever said or even implied that either was a success and what does that have to do with it? There was a format war going on and people would have to be stupid to snap up discs of either format knowing they had a 50% chance of getting scruwed over. Now that Blu-ray has won it has a chance of being a success. People didn't fail to flock to either format because they didn't like them, it was because they were too smart to. Geez, stop implying that people didn't like either one. So dumb.
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Originally Posted by mrtew
Who has ever said or even implied that either was a success and what does that have to do with it? There was a format war going on and people would have to be stupid to snap up discs of either format knowing they had a 50% chance of getting scruwed over. Now that Blu-ray has won it has a chance of being a success. People didn't fail to flock to either format because they didn't like them, it was because they were too smart to. Geez, stop implying that people didn't like either one. So dumb.
I couldn't agree more. I'm now considering my next TV purchase, and I might as well pick up a PS3 while I'm at it. Not so much for the games, but for all the other cool stuff it can do. Oh, and it plays HD movies.
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Originally Posted by Shaddim
No, I wasn't "making generalize claims that most people are returning their HDDVD players". I said, "Since most of the people I know who bought HD-DVD players at Christmas sent/took their units back, after Warner Bros' announcement, I don't know how well this will work".
I never made a "defensive argument", whatever that is.
Well, I'm just telling you that you are jumping to conclusions without the facts.
After the initial shock after the Warner announcement, HDDVD sales are back up on Amazon.
Amazon Sales Ranks: Customized HD DVD / Blu-ray Graphs | High-Def Digest
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Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
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Originally Posted by hyteckit
OMG they are going to winz!
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Originally Posted by hyteckit
Those number change from day to day and almost never reflect the neilsen numbers even though amazon sales are a subset. The majority of sales are still through B&M stores. I expect the ratio for last week (available this friday) to be 80+ for blu-ray and the ratio for this week (announced friday next week) to be in the 90's for blu-ray. It's over even though the fat lady has not sung yet.
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Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES
Woman knew what she was asking for by wearing short skirt - Sony
Yeah. Everyone who bought a player KNEW their **** was gonna get dodoed
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New, Improved and Legal in 50 States
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Originally Posted by pooka
Woman knew what she was asking for by wearing short skirt - Sony
Yeah. Everyone who bought a player KNEW their **** was gonna get dodoed
What the hell are you talking about? It has been confirmed by blu-ray insiders and regular consumers that Profile 1.1 titles play fine on Profile 1.0 devices and that the extra features downgrade gracefully so as to not offer PIP options on 1.0 devices.
Stop spreading bullcrap I don't care how much MSFT is paying you to do it.
Educate yourself on wikipedia.org. I've had enough of your lies.
I have personally conformed that this is how it works with my PS3 before and after the firmware upgrade with the 1.1 title Resident Evil: Extinction.
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We don't need to be calling each other liars, do we? It is true that the older devices don't support all the features of the new profiles.
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Man, I really wish we could still play by old school rules. That way, I could truly enjoy doing what it is that I do. Alas, I gotta play nice. Oh well.
You're right. I'm wrong. I'm just jealous that my team didn't win the format super bowl. You guys certainly have better cheerleaders and I humbly declare defeat. Enjoy Resident Evil: Retardation or whatever it is you kids are watching these days. May all of our features degrade so gracefully when the time comes.
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New, Improved and Legal in 50 States
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I have a HD-A2 in addition to a PS3 so I've tried both formats.
Here is my collection including 19 HD DVD titles so I'm not just some blind Sony fanboy who knows nothing about the other format.
DVDSpot: Front Page
I look forward to a cheaper standalone Blu-ray player coming out soon and I believe that the Blu-ray recording camcorders will be popular with people who are not looking to go through the trouble of editing home movies on their computer.
Because HD DVD only has two studios left and no camcorders in the pipeline, I don't see a future for it.
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Originally Posted by icruise
We don't need to be calling each other liars, do we? It is true that the older devices don't support all the features of the new profiles.
But it's a lie to say they will stop playing those new titles.
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Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
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Originally Posted by hyteckit
I'm sure HD DVD fans at AVS are taking the opportunity to buy their third, fourth or fifth player.
They are getting backup units before they're gone as Toshiba failed to announce fourth generation players at CES.
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I think this whole ordeal has emphasized how impotent the Hollywood movie industry has become, much like the rest of the entertainment industry.
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Originally Posted by aristotles
I'm sure HD DVD fans at AVS are taking the opportunity to buy their third, fourth or fifth player.
They are getting backup units before they're gone as Toshiba failed to announce fourth generation players at CES.
4th generation players? Really? The HD-A3 went on sale in Oct 2007. 4th generation already?
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Bush Tax Cuts == Job Killer
June 2001: 132,047,000 employed
June 2003: 129,839,000 employed
2.21 million jobs were LOST after 2 years of Bush Tax Cuts.
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Sometimes I wonder how people here would really feel about HD DVD if it were Apple that supported the format instead of Microsoft. . . . And, why is everyone buying into a format that doesn't even have a finished spec yet? I don't get it. . .
How many different versions of DVDs were there? As far as I can tell, a DVD player from 7 years (or whenever) ago can do all of the exact same things that a DVD player that you buy today can do. Do all of you have so much disposable income that you can just upgrade to a new Blu-Ray player every time sony decides to add a so-called "feature"? There is only one player on the market that can be upgraded to 2.0, and what after that? Continue to buy more and more players just to be able to use the bonus features on the discs that you have to pay 30.00+ for? Sounds like a great investment to me. . . .
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Originally Posted by cSurfr
Sometimes I wonder how people here would really feel about HD DVD if it were Apple that supported the format instead of Microsoft. . . . And, why is everyone buying into a format that doesn't even have a finished spec yet? I don't get it. . .
How many different versions of DVDs were there? As far as I can tell, a DVD player from 7 years (or whenever) ago can do all of the exact same things that a DVD player that you buy today can do. Do all of you have so much disposable income that you can just upgrade to a new Blu-Ray player every time sony decides to add a so-called "feature"? There is only one player on the market that can be upgraded to 2.0, and what after that? Continue to buy more and more players just to be able to use the bonus features on the discs that you have to pay 30.00+ for? Sounds like a great investment to me. . . .
Dude this is a Mac board. If Apple supported HD-DVD we would definitely be more on board! You're so brilliant for figuring that out! We even like Windows more now that Apple supports it!
One reason I like Blu-ray is that it's so good that the worst thing that haters can say about it is that there might be cool new features added in the future that we don't even have now! And yes I think that someday if my PS3 can't be upgraded to take advantage of all of them I might even buy a new Blu-ray player and put the PS3 in the bedroom or downstairs. I'm not THAT afraid of the future. Geez, I think you're really grasping at straws. Why don't you give it up soon?
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The Toshiba Garbage Clearance Sale gets cheaper and this thread just keeps going on and on.
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Originally Posted by mrtew
One reason I like Blu-ray is that it's so good that the worst thing that haters can say about it is that there might be cool new features added in the future that we don't even have now!
That's hilarious. Blu-Ray is filled with problems. I fully realize that it is now positioned to win this war, but to say that there are no problems with it is just ignorant.
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Originally Posted by mrtew
Dude this is a Mac board. If Apple supported HD-DVD we would definitely be more on board! You're so brilliant for figuring that out! We even like Windows more now that Apple supports it!
One reason I like Blu-ray is that it's so good that the worst thing that haters can say about it is that there might be cool new features added in the future that we don't even have now! And yes I think that someday if my PS3 can't be upgraded to take advantage of all of them I might even buy a new Blu-ray player and put the PS3 in the bedroom or downstairs. I'm not THAT afraid of the future. Geez, I think you're really grasping at straws. Why don't you give it up soon?
I can't wait until all of the 1.0 - 1.1 players fail to run the movies created for 2.0. Surely you saw all the comments from Fox saying "it's not our problem if your player doesn't play our newest movies." Sure, it's been "reported" that 2.0 movies may work, but the last time I checked, no one has seen it happen. . . good luck to you!
Oh, and if, Apple supported HD DVD over Blu-Ray, would you still be just as adamant about it? I thought Blu-Ray was "so good"? In which case, it must not be all that great. Seems to me you just want to spread some fud. I think Engadget has some openings you can check into.
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-How pumped would you be driving home from work, knowing someplace in your house there's a monkey you're gonna battle?
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Grizzled Veteran
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Originally Posted by PaperNotes
The Toshiba Garbage Clearance Sale gets cheaper and this thread just keeps going on and on.
I didn't know that my toshiba was just going to stop working now that the majority of the studios went to BR? According to your sig, they'll all be useless. . . Good to know!
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-How pumped would you be driving home from work, knowing someplace in your house there's a monkey you're gonna battle?
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Registered User
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Originally Posted by cSurfr
I didn't know that my toshiba was just going to stop working now that the majority of the studios went to BR? According to your sig, they'll all be useless. . . Good to know!
Of course it will be useless. Anything with an extremely limited library of titles that just keeps getting smaller is useless. Especially if you can't even record on to the discs. I wouldn't touch any next gen player unless it offered recording and lots of disc space. The money you spent on your HD-DVD player would have been better spent on poker (even if you lost!).
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Grizzled Veteran
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Originally Posted by PaperNotes
Of course it will be useless. Anything with an extremely limited library of titles that just keeps getting smaller is useless. Especially if you can't even record on to the discs. I wouldn't touch any next gen player unless it offered recording and lots of disc space. The money you spent on your HD-DVD player would have been better spent on poker (even if you lost!).
Umm. . . I didn't know you could buy a stand-alone Blu-Ray recorder (or common folk afford one at least). Not that it matters, but my Toshiba will still upscale all DVDs as well as, if not batter than any Sony player out there. Useless it is not. BTW, come talk to me when you get all of those exclusive warner titles released on BR. I'm going to watch Batman Begins in HD.
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-How pumped would you be driving home from work, knowing someplace in your house there's a monkey you're gonna battle?
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Oh, and one more thing. . . your "extremely limited library of titles" could easily be said about Mac software as well, but we're all still using one.
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-How pumped would you be driving home from work, knowing someplace in your house there's a monkey you're gonna battle?
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Originally Posted by cSurfr
Oh, and one more thing. . . your "extremely limited library of titles" could easily be said about Mac software as well, but we're all still using one.
Lame analogy.
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Grizzled Veteran
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Originally Posted by PaperNotes
Lame analogy.
It shut you up, didn't it?
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-How pumped would you be driving home from work, knowing someplace in your house there's a monkey you're gonna battle?
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Clinically Insane
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Originally Posted by mrtew
Dude this is a Mac board. If Apple supported HD-DVD we would definitely be more on board!
Better get your HD DVD pom-poms out then.
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Last edited by Eug; Jan 15, 2008 at 10:06 AM.
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Isn't that more of a generic term? Is there a difference between saying HD DVD instead of HD-DVD?
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That is a generic term in the app that was there before the HD-DVD disc format support came along. It is an option to output HD to many formats from Quicktime movies to burning DVDs and blue laser discs like HD-DVD. It can burn h.264 to a Blu-ray recorder too even without official spec support currently. Apple will release the patch with for the 1.2 spec which is why it has taken quite some time.
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Originally Posted by cSurfr
It shut you up, didn't it?
You couldn't shut me up with a nuclear missile from Allah.
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Clinically Insane
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Originally Posted by Dakar the Fourth
Isn't that more of a generic term? Is there a difference between saying HD DVD instead of HD-DVD?
"HD DVD" is the correct word. There is no such thing as "HD-DVD".
Don't let the claims by others in the thread fool you. "HD DVD" in this context is NOT a generic term. These are spec-compliant HD DVDs that DVDSP produces. IOW, if you burn one of these it will play in both Apple's DVD Player, and any HD DVD standalone player. I've tested it personally to confirm this. The discs produced have the standard HD DVD disc structure with a proper HDDVD_TS file folder.
Furthermore, there is no way to burn spec-compliant Blu-ray discs at this time from this Apple program.
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