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You are here: MacNN Forums > Software - Troubleshooting and Discussion > Applications > MS Word makes me look like a better student (?)

MS Word makes me look like a better student (?)
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Jaey
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May 27, 2004, 05:21 PM
 
I have this paper for school due in a few days. I wrote the first few drafts in Appleworks, but then I found out that the teacher wanted them in MS Word. So I copied, pasted, did my re-formatting, and now my paper is three pages longer.
Why?
     
hyperb0le
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May 27, 2004, 05:29 PM
 
I would guess that it is because of one of two things:

1) Word's margins are set larger that AppleWorks, so fewer characters can fit in a line in Word.

2) Word's kerning is larger by default, so there is more space in between letters.
     
Developer
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May 27, 2004, 05:31 PM
 
I hate it when people want stuff in Word and don't accept PDF.
Nasrudin sat on a river bank when someone shouted to him from the opposite side: "Hey! how do I get across?" "You are across!" Nasrudin shouted back.
     
CharlesS
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May 27, 2004, 05:35 PM
 
Originally posted by Developer:
I hate it when people want stuff in Word and don't accept PDF.
Or when they won't accept documents at all, period, because they're worried about getting macro viruses, and when I ask RTF? they reply WTF!

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Developer
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May 27, 2004, 05:44 PM
 
Originally posted by CharlesS:
Or when they won't accept documents at all, period, because they're worried about getting macro viruses, [...]
Not in Germany. Here they always want Word. Irregardless macro viruses, irregardless that it is part of a �500 software package (they just assume this is somehow always on every computer and everybody has it) etc. It's like dealing with complete idiots. But if you don't send Word, you won't get the job.
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turtle777
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May 27, 2004, 05:46 PM
 
Originally posted by Developer:
I hate it when people want stuff in Word and don't accept PDF.
Well, in schools, there is a reason: many professors like to make comments directly in the text and send it back.

And yes, this is possible with Acrobat, but that's a different discussion.
Btw, Acrobat 6 suxx so bad performance wise, I hate to use it to edit PDFs...

-t
     
turtle777
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May 27, 2004, 05:49 PM
 
Originally posted by Developer:
... irregardless ...
OT: Hey Developer, das Wort gibt es nicht

Ist doppeltgemoppelt ! "regardless" reicht !

Schoenen Feierabend !
-t
     
Developer
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May 27, 2004, 05:56 PM
 
Originally posted by turtle777:
OT: Hey Developer, das Wort gibt es nicht

Ist doppeltgemoppelt ! "regardless" reicht !
I know. I use this word in memory of the PlaySoundIrregardless() function.
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CharlesS
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May 27, 2004, 05:59 PM
 
Originally posted by turtle777:
Well, in schools, there is a reason: many professors like to make comments directly in the text and send it back.
Okay, so what's wrong with RTF?!

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itai195
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May 27, 2004, 06:25 PM
 
Originally posted by CharlesS:
Okay, so what's wrong with RTF?!
Does RTF support comments the way Word docs do?

Support for this is in Word v.X is kind of irritating, in terms of usability... but at least it looks like Word 2004 will handle comments more like Word 2003 on Win does.
     
turtle777
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May 28, 2004, 10:19 AM
 
Originally posted by CharlesS:
Okay, so what's wrong with RTF?!
Read The Freakin' WHAT ?

But you are right, nothing's wrong with RTF.
It's just not being used very often for that purpose. I suppose many professors don't even know that you could use it.

-t
     
Richard Edgar
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May 28, 2004, 11:02 AM
 
Not in Germany. Here they always want Word
Someone I knew came up with an elegant solution to this problem. He wrote the document in LaTeX (which was what he wanted to use), and then embedded the resulting postscript file into a Word document.
     
turtle777
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May 28, 2004, 11:13 AM
 
Originally posted by Richard Edgar:
Someone I knew came up with an elegant solution to this problem. He wrote the document in LaTeX (which was what he wanted to use), and then embedded the resulting postscript file into a Word document.
Uhm, how does that work ?
Can the text inside Word still be edited and commented on ?
I'd say that's not possible, right ?

Btw, you could also put a PDF document inside a Word document, at least on a Mac. I don't know if that works on PCs though...
And again, everything's fix then.

So not relly a solution in the case that editing or commenting is needed.

-t
     
CharlesS
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May 28, 2004, 11:22 AM
 
Originally posted by itai195:
Does RTF support comments the way Word docs do?

Support for this is in Word v.X is kind of irritating, in terms of usability... but at least it looks like Word 2004 will handle comments more like Word 2003 on Win does.
Ah, but you see, RTF files can be opened by Word. Then the prof can save in Word format with all his comments if he/she wants. But since the file came into his machine as an RTF file, he doesn't have to worry about big bad evil viruses coming from it. If he wants to send the Word doc back to me, well that's fine since I am intelligent enough to know how to avoid getting macro viruses in Word docs.

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turtle777
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May 28, 2004, 03:50 PM
 
Originally posted by CharlesS:
Ah, but you see, RTF files can be opened by Word. Then the prof can save in Word format with all his comments if he/she wants. But since the file came into his machine as an RTF file, he doesn't have to worry about big bad evil viruses coming from it. If he wants to send the Word doc back to me, well that's fine since I am intelligent enough to know how to avoid getting macro viruses in Word docs.
That raises an important question:

Who is more likely to spread a virus ?
A student or a professor ?

Although the student would be the obvious first choice, I'm not sure.
Many professors don't have a clue about computers. A virus will slip in and through faster than with some students...

-t
     
CharlesS
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May 28, 2004, 09:25 PM
 
Originally posted by turtle777:
That raises an important question:

Who is more likely to spread a virus ?
A student or a professor ?

Although the student would be the obvious first choice, I'm not sure.
Many professors don't have a clue about computers. A virus will slip in and through faster than with some students...

-t
Yeah, but Word has a feature where you can have it warn you before any macros get executed. With that thing on, I don't worry too much about macro viruses since I never allow any macros to run.

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turtle777
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May 29, 2004, 09:30 AM
 
Originally posted by CharlesS:
Yeah, but Word has a feature where you can have it warn you before any macros get executed. With that thing on, I don't worry too much about macro viruses since I never allow any macros to run.
True, for Word that's quite useful.

For Excel though, that function is plain useless to me.
As an Excel poweruser, many of my files contain macros.
In an office-environment with a lot of file sharing, you can never know if someone contaminated the file.
The only solution is an up-to-date Antivirus program...

So again, what speaks AGAINST Word in the first place, besides ideology ?

-t
     
Richard Edgar
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May 29, 2004, 10:17 AM
 
Can the text inside Word still be edited and commented on ?
I'd say that's not possible, right ?
I would very much doubt it.
So not relly a solution in the case that editing or commenting is needed
I'd say it was an excellent solution. If the specification was simply 'must be in Word format' it fulfils the requirement to the letter. I believe this sometimes goes by the label 'malicious compliance.'
So again, what speaks AGAINST Word in the first place, besides ideology?
Do you mean apart from the fact that Word documents look terrible, and generally seem to take ten times the disk space that is really needed?
     
CharlesS
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May 29, 2004, 04:50 PM
 
Originally posted by turtle777:
So again, what speaks AGAINST Word in the first place, besides ideology ?
Because it introduced the concept of plain old documents having viruses in them. Resulting in many outbreaks of viruses everywhere, and making people paranoid to accept documents from me (not realizing that RTF can't harbor viruses like Word docs can - people don't understand that things like this are specific to formats like Word which have macros or other executable code in them). If the ability to run macros in documents had been off by default, and could be turned on by power users, this would never have been a problem. I'd venture a guess that about 99% of Office users never use macros for anything except for getting infected by viruses, yet it's on by default. The default setting should be that they don't run, period. No dialog boxes, they just don't run unless you change the settings.

Plus, the fact that .doc is a completely closed format, and you can't write a third-party editor for it without reverse-engineering the format, the fact that the thing hogs a huge amount of disk space and RAM (less of an issue these days, admittedly), the fact that its interface is terrible and completely non-standard, and the fact that MS kills the competition using cut-throat means, resulting in less choice for the user...

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May 29, 2004, 05:14 PM
 
... but I like Wordperfect better and now I must to use m$ oriffice�
     
msuper69
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May 29, 2004, 06:41 PM
 
If your document is fairly simple consisting of mostly text, just use TextEdit and save as a Word document with the .doc extension. This assumes you are running 10.3.
     
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May 30, 2004, 01:19 AM
 
RTF files will open with MS Word (both Mac and Windows version) just as a native file. On the PC, it will even show the file as a Word document and icon.
     
itai195
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May 30, 2004, 01:31 AM
 
Originally posted by CharlesS:
Ah, but you see, RTF files can be opened by Word. Then the prof can save in Word format with all his comments if he/she wants. But since the file came into his machine as an RTF file, he doesn't have to worry about big bad evil viruses coming from it. If he wants to send the Word doc back to me, well that's fine since I am intelligent enough to know how to avoid getting macro viruses in Word docs.
Sure... but I've had experience where these comments are used in generating further revisions of a document, so the professor/colleague/manager/customer/whoever will send back a Word doc with comments anyway.

In situations where comments aren't used, I fully agree with you that formats such as RTF and PDF should be allowed (if not preferred). I have no love for the DOC format, but people are locked into it through their Microsoft-centric work styles.
     
   
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