[freudling]

Reading the other thread related to whether Jobs should come forward if in fact he is ill... does anyone have any information about his health? I have noticed, like others, that over the past 2 years he has lost a lot of weight... I mean, it is very apparent. Not just a few pounds, but he is now swimming in his mock neck shirt... he looks more than underweight. And, since he did have cancer, we speculate...

Some running explanations for his weight loss:

1. He is back on his fruit only diet and has chosen to lose the weight
2. There is some other non-life threatening issue at play
3. He really is sick with cancer

[Dakar the Fourth]

This shoulda been a poll.

[turtle777]

*sigh*

So why a new thread for this ?

And why encouraging people to speculate about this ?

-t

[freudling]

The other thread revolves around the question of whether his health is a private or public concern. This thread is about uncovering his health status. Is he really sick? I don't buy the answer Apple gave to reporters after the WWDC this year that he caught a common bug. He has been underweight now for over 2 years. I can only think that one cause is that he does have a tumor on his pancreas or tumors that have spread throughout his body.

[Chuckit]

How on earth are we supposed to know?

[CreepDogg]

It's a private matter.

[turtle777]

I think it's pathetic to discuss this when if you don't have any insight or facts.

And none of us have that.

-t

[freudling]

Chuckit:

You may not know but someone else might. I am just a concerned Apple citizen and I think this is a relevant topic of discussion. There is no denying that he had cancer and that he has lots loads of weight over the past 2 years. Looking at his before and after pics I would estimate 30 pounds. He as so gaunt at the WWDC I can't see him weighing, currently, any more than about 140 pounds.

[turtle777]

Freudling - just interested:

If you were the CEO of a high profile company, would you like for people with no firsthand knowledge to discuss and speculate on your private matters and post this in public places ?

-t

[Randman]

1) No one here has any insider info.

2) There's already a Steve Jobs health thread.

3) See the first 2 items.

[freudling]

Randman:

How do you know that nobody here has any info? Wow, I wish I were that informed about every visitor and user of this site.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

I think it's pathetic to discuss this when if you don't have any insight or facts.

And none of us have that.

-t

Sounds like 90% of the threads here. Thus, it's perfect for the Lounge.

Originally Posted by turtle777 

Freudling - just interested:

If you were the CEO of a high profile company, would you like for people with no firsthand knowledge to discuss and speculate on your private matters and post this in public places ?

Nope, I wouldn't like it. However, I would certainly expect it.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Randman:

How do you know that nobody here has any info? Wow, I wish I were that informed about every visitor and user of this site.

If anybody knew that Jobs is sick and they were willing to publicly state the answer, we would all know already. Since we do not know, clearly he is either in OK health or nobody is talking. QED.

[Uncle Doof]

Originally Posted by turtle777 

I think it's pathetic to discuss this when if you don't have any insight or facts.

And none of us have that.

Speak for yerself Turty - I have plenty of insight and facts. Just none about Steve's health.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Uncle Doof 

Speak for yerself Turty - I have plenty of insight and facts. Just none about Steve's health.

How about you share about your health ?

-t

[sek929]

Steve and Apple are doooooooomed!!!

[Randman]

This thread is doomed, as it was from the start.

[Jawbone54]

Just be glad you didn't start a Steve Jobs death thread.
Trust me on that one.

[Not FSJ]

Why is it so difficult for a forum member in the Palo Alto area to drive through and take a picture in public or attending the Apple Cupertino Campus? No photos have surfaced post WWDC. iLeader must be seen in public by someone. We need to see what he looks like before and now. This is the best idea I can come with short of raiding physician office - kidding. Anyone have a better idea - I am curious.

[freudling]

Having looked at his photos over the past few years, watching recent interviews, and reading relevant articles, I think Steve is seriously ill. There is a post on this very topic with some thoughtful comments, such as:

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mark H said:Jun. 11, 4:43 PM
Pancreatic is among the most deadly of cancers because it is asymptomatic until clinically advanced. Frankly, it's unlikely Jobs was pronounced 'cured' after his initial treatment some years ago and he probably has, since then, been under under 'watchful waiting' with intermitant chemotherapy as needed. In that context, a significant rapid decline in weight is a very grim sign. A patient his age with re-current pancreatic carcinoma typically lives less than one year.

While he may have some fiduciary responsibility to inform shareholders that he is gravely ill, he has no such moral responsibilty.

---------------------------------------------------------
DremWkr said:Jun. 10, 10:52 PM
I believe the Apple PR info that Jobs has a bug is in fact true. What they are not saying, is that his immune system is compromised, and that is most likely because of Chemotherapy. Why? Metastized late stage cancer that is nonoperable. I sence that ideed Mr. Jobs is very sick. Apple stockholders need to be asking about Apple's succession plans. Knowing Apple, my guess is that they will say Mr. Jobs is just having a "bug" til after his private funeral. Sources close to Mr. Jobs, say he is extremely ill and suffering alot, and has been for some weeks.

I think Mr. Jobs knew that people would notice his condition, I think this is his way of giving us hint of things to come.

The bug from Apple PR seems like what the above poster is referring to: a sort of smoke screen. It does not really tell us much, and is likely a complication from a weakened immune system due to cancer medication. One reason I believe this latter is because I have noticed Steve's weight/appearance deteriorate over the past 2 years. He simply looks sickly and sounds very weak. He even looked and sounded like this at D4 with Bill Gates about 1 year ago, but it has certainly gotten noticeably worse.

I think the only reason he is alive is because he is getting the best possible medical treatment in the world. But even with that, he looks like he is dying.

[Chuckit]

Uh…good to know?

Oh, hey, here's that insider info you were looking for:
http://www.businessweek.com/technolo...eal_issue.html

[freudling]

Chuckit:

Thanks for the link. I did read that... and I of course cannot say either way... I just know what I see and he looks horrifically weak and has looked this way for the past 2 years: it just keeps getting worse.

[Chuckit]

Yeah, but if we say he only has a year to live based on his appearance and he's looked this way for two years, it seems to indicate to me that we clearly don't have enough information. That's what I'm trying to say. It seems a bit morbid and a lot pointless to speculate on somebody's death based on nothing more than, "Well, he doesn't look too good." Especially considering all the info coming from Apple indicates that he is not on death's door.

Incidentally, my grandmother has looked worse than Steve for years and she's still kicking.

[Eriamjh]

They should have just said, "He's fine."

[Eug]

Originally Posted by freudling 

Having looked at his photos over the past few years, watching recent interviews, and reading relevant articles, I think Steve is seriously ill. There is a post on this very topic with some thoughtful comments, such as:

-----------------------------------------------------------------
Mark H said:Jun. 11, 4:43 PM
Pancreatic is among the most deadly of cancers because it is asymptomatic until clinically advanced. Frankly, it's unlikely Jobs was pronounced 'cured' after his initial treatment some years ago and he probably has, since then, been under under 'watchful waiting' with intermitant chemotherapy as needed. In that context, a significant rapid decline in weight is a very grim sign. A patient his age with re-current pancreatic carcinoma typically lives less than one year.

While he may have some fiduciary responsibility to inform shareholders that he is gravely ill, he has no such moral responsibilty.

---------------------------------------------------------
DremWkr said:Jun. 10, 10:52 PM
I believe the Apple PR info that Jobs has a bug is in fact true. What they are not saying, is that his immune system is compromised, and that is most likely because of Chemotherapy. Why? Metastized late stage cancer that is nonoperable. I sence that ideed Mr. Jobs is very sick. Apple stockholders need to be asking about Apple's succession plans. Knowing Apple, my guess is that they will say Mr. Jobs is just having a "bug" til after his private funeral. Sources close to Mr. Jobs, say he is extremely ill and suffering alot, and has been for some weeks.

I think Mr. Jobs knew that people would notice his condition, I think this is his way of giving us hint of things to come.

The bug from Apple PR seems like what the above poster is referring to: a sort of smoke screen. It does not really tell us much, and is likely a complication from a weakened immune system due to cancer medication. One reason I believe this latter is because I have noticed Steve's weight/appearance deteriorate over the past 2 years. He simply looks sickly and sounds very weak. He even looked and sounded like this at D4 with Bill Gates about 1 year ago, but it has certainly gotten noticeably worse.

I think the only reason he is alive is because he is getting the best possible medical treatment in the world. But even with that, he looks like he is dying.

He had a neuroendocrine tumour. Some can be aggressive, but some behave in a much more indolent fashion.

He did NOT have the run-of-the-mill pancreatic adenocarcinoma, which is quite a different kettle of fish. It sounds like the people in those messages are likely talking about pancreatic adenocarcinoma. If so, they're barking up the wrong tree.

Originally Posted by Steve Jobs

Team,
I have some personal news that I need to share with you, and I wanted you to hear it directly from me. This weekend I underwent a successful surgery to remove a cancerous tumor from my pancreas. I had a very rare form of pancreatic cancer called an islet cell neuroendocrine tumor, which represents about 1% of the total cases of pancreatic cancer diagnosed each year, and can be cured by surgical removal if diagnosed in time (mine was). I will not require any chemotherapy or radiation treatments.

The far more common form of pancreatic cancer is called adenocarcinoma, which is currently not curable and usually carries a life expectancy of around one year after diagnosis. I mention this because when one hears "pancreatic cancer" (or Googles it), one immediately encounters this far more common and deadly form, which, thank god, is not what I had.

I will be recuperating during the month of August, and expect to return to work in September. While I'm out, I've asked Tim Cook to be responsible for Apple's day to day operations, so we shouldn't miss a beat. I'm sure I'll be calling some of you way too much in August, and I look forward to seeing you in September.

Steve

PS: I'm sending this from my hospital bed using my 17-inch PowerBook and an Airport Express.

[Jawbone54]

You know, I've wondered about Steve's health, but I've never actually thought he was close to dying (at least not since his cancer went into remission). I really, really, really hope the guy doesn't pass away.

He's kind of a mythic character in the tech world, and it would be a shame to lose his influence.

[freudling]

Sure this is a bit of speculation... if Steve did not have cancer previously and he just sort of was losing weight like this, then we would not have that much to go off of. And of course, I am not just basing my concerns about his health solely on the way he looks today... the fact is, he did have cancer, and over the past 2 years his weight has decreased to a point where if he loses even a little bit more he will disappear. So the most likely explanation in regards to his significant weight loss over a 2 year period is from his cancer/cancer treatments.

The excuse that Apple PR is giving is rubbish. This has been a progressive thing that is observable through time.

Anyone who compares these 2 interviews can clearly see that Steve is shockingly gaunt and it only took about 2 years for it to set in.

Interview 1: (sometime in 2006 - thinner than he was before, but still what looks to be an acceptable weight)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhzB98HeToU

Interview 2: (June 2008)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNZngL29M9M

In interview 2 he is incredibly frail and his voice weak... his thinness was very noticeable starting from his D4 interview with Gates in ~Feb/Mar 2007. As such, the Apple PR excuse of a flu bug causing the weight loss is dubious. While a flu bug could have caused weight loss, Steve has been losing weight for the past 2 years and beyond: thus, it is not just the flu bug causing this weight loss. And there is no way anyone would intentionally diet down or exercise to become that frail.

[Chuckit]

If I remember correctly from the last few threads on this topic, weight loss and weakness are known side-effects of the cancer treatment Jobs had.

[Monique]

And why is it important?

You know the guy personnaly and it makes a huge difference in your life?

It is a private matter.

It would be so nice if people would mind their own business.

[Uncle Doof]

Amen Monique.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

If I remember correctly from the last few threads on this topic, weight loss and weakness are known side-effects of the cancer treatment Jobs had.

Except that Jobs himself claimed he wouldn't be needing chemotherapy or radiation. In fact, I posted that right in this thread.

Originally Posted by Steve Jobs

I will not require any chemotherapy or radiation treatments.

Or are you talking about something else?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Except that Jobs himself claimed he wouldn't be needing chemotherapy or radiation. In fact, I posted that right in this thread.

Or are you talking about something else?

I'm talking about the kind of surgery he had.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I'm talking about the kind of surgery he had.

He had the surgery 4 years ago.

[OreoCookie]

No, he had surgery again because of nutritional problems -- which are, sources claim, a side-effect of his cancer treatment. It seems Chuckit is correct.

[freudling]

Monique said:

And why is it important?

This is the most ridiculous question asked on these boards in the last week. Monique, why do YOU think it might be an important topic that the CEO of Apple may or may not be ill?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie 

No, he had surgery again because of nutritional problems -- which are, sources claim, a side-effect of his cancer treatment. It seems Chuckit is correct.

Link? I didn't see that.

EDIT:

I see now. There are rumours that Jobs had another (non-cancer) surgery, but this has not been officially confirmed.

[OreoCookie]

The New York Times has a story on it. Since the link will probably expire soon, here is the gist (emphasis mine):

Originally Posted by John Markoff (NYT)

But in recent weeks, Mr. Jobs has reassured several people that he is doing well and that four years after a successful operation to treat a rare form of pancreatic cancer, he is cancer free.

People who are close to Mr. Jobs say that he had a surgical procedure this year to address a problem that was contributing to a loss of weight. These people declined to be identified because Mr. Jobs had not authorized them to speak about his health.

[Eriamjh]

As far as Apple goes, Steve Jobs is clearly a tangible reason the company is doing so well, at least in the eyes of stockholders. He IS Apple to many people. The apparent health of Apple is directly influenced by Steve's personal health.

You can guarantee that if Steve was no longer at Apple (pick a reason), the stock would nosedive in the short term. He is an important asset to the company and has a direct bearing on its future prospects.

What happened to M$ stock when Gates announced his retirement? Probably nothing. Gates is no Jobs!

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Eug 

EDIT:

I see now. There are rumours that Jobs had another (non-cancer) surgery, but this has not been officially confirmed.

Yes, that's why I said that if this is true, then Chuckit is right and it's a complication of his cancer treatment.

[freudling]

I know that after Jobs is gone, it is going to be a huge blow for all Apple fan boys and the tech industry too. Without him, these products we are using are gone. That does not mean that Apple would not be able to produce great products without him, but I think a lot would be missing from them. Look at the clamshell iBook, that was and still is an incredible laptop, both functionally and aesthetically. That was the result of Jobs back at Apple. The iMac... OS X... He is the brilliance behind the products. Instead of using focus groups and trying to please everyone, he just makes products that he wants to use, and it turns out that many of us want to use the same products.

I will say though, while some might disagree, I liked Apple's computers in the 90s with Sculley. The Newton... the Color Mac Classic... the PowerBook 1400c... the evolution of OS 7 and 8...

[Eug]

I hated the clamshell iBook. I really, really wanted to like it (esp. because of its 802.11b), but the thing was ginormous yet only had a 800x600 screen when everyone else had laptops with smaller footprints but included 1024x768 screens. Furthermore, some of the clamshells design was simply empty space. It didn't have to be that big. It just was.

It was a classic case of form over function. OTOH, my sweet new iPhone 3G gives us form and function.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by Eug 

I hated the clamshell iBook.

Me too. Apple went through a really bad design period in the late 1990s. Those Blue & White PowerMacs and display were ridiculous too. The complaints about Apple's products looking like Barbie purses and My First Fisher-Price Computer were right-on. The original iMac was very cool, but they went too far with the whimsical look that culminated in Blue Dalmatian and Flower Power.

[anthology123]

A friend saw Steve at the Palo Alto Apple Store during the iPhone 3G opening. She said he looked incredibly skinny, almost sickly. He may still be in treatment, he may be in recovery mode right now, who knows?
What is amazing that Apple has so much of it riding on his image, that why haven't they started grooming someone to assume his role in the company? He's going to retire someday, and Apple has no one in the wings with Jobs charisma and strategy.

[freudling]

Here is an interesting article/bio on Steve. I found it very informative with a link to an exclusive interview with Jobs speaking candidly about himself and Apple.

http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/02/news...ion=2008030419

[angelmb]

A Forbes article about Steve's diet secrets… imagine that.

(…)

What's his secret? The skinny, so to speak, on the Apple campus is Jobs' gaunt frame says as much about his diet as his health. Jobs lunches with the troops in the Cupertino, Calif.-based company's cafeteria- a place packed with the likes of fresh sushi and Smart Water.

And while Apple employees eat healthy, Jobs takes it to an extreme, one employee says, eating dark green vegetables such as broccoli and asparagus, grilled or steamed. Jobs has been a vegetarian for years but his enthusiasm for green may have taken on an extra dimension since his brush with cancer. Jobs has surgery in 2004 to treat pancreatic cancer, and, again, earlier this year, according to The New York Times, to address "a problem that was contributing to a loss of weight." The veg-heavy diet, however, likely will not help him pack on any pounds. "No wonder he's cranky all the time," one Apple insider says.

(…)