[besson3c]

Originally Posted by invisibleX

So, metaphorically, you're eating elephant poop.

You haven't actually warned anyone of anything. What I am saying is that islam is not the root cause. Time and again you gladly quote people misinterpreting the Qu'ran to support their militant ideas. In essence you buy into it as much as they do. If you actually read it you'd see how even their own quotes directly contradict what they are saying. I am saying militant islams use of religion as a flag is not the cause but an effect. This is easily demonstrated by history, current events, and the text itself. I don't need extremist scholars to demonstrate my points.

If you read the bible you'd find very similar treatises on war as in the Qu'ran. Things like leaving nothing alive. Any religious text can be twisted to its users desires. The text is not the agenda, the interpretation is. So if the text is the elephant, and the interpretation is the poop, you'd have us stare at elephant **** and ignore the problem.

No one is blind and we can all see the threat. Unfortunately you would have people be ignorant of its nature, root cause, or motives. If this makes us unable to combat the problem what does that make you? Another jihadist trying to hide the truth behind a religious smoke-screen?

Great post man...

I hope mojo2 reads this and considers this carefully. Even if it doesn't change this thinking entirely (which is highly likely), I hope it complicates his thinking on this.

I'm not a religious scholar, but I have a hard time believing that religion is at the root of this conflict too, especially when one considers all of the wars and battles faught in the supposed name of Christianity.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by invisibleX

So, metaphorically, you're eating elephant poop.

You haven't actually warned anyone of anything. What I am saying is that islam is not the root cause. Time and again you gladly quote people misinterpreting the Qu'ran to support their militant ideas. In essence you buy into it as much as they do. If you actually read it you'd see how even their own quotes directly contradict what they are saying. I am saying militant islams use of religion as a flag is not the cause but an effect. This is easily demonstrated by history, current events, and the text itself. I don't need extremist scholars to demonstrate my points.

If you read the bible you'd find very similar treatises on war as in the Qu'ran. Things like leaving nothing alive. Any religious text can be twisted to its users desires. The text is not the agenda, the interpretation is. So if the text is the elephant, and the interpretation is the poop, you'd have us stare at elephant **** and ignore the problem.

No one is blind and we can all see the threat. Unfortunately you would have people be ignorant of its nature, root cause, or motives. If this makes us unable to combat the problem what does that make you? Another jihadist trying to hide the truth behind a religious smoke-screen?

As Christians we must be very emphatic that Christians have and continue to do many shameful things in the name of Christ, BUT the issue is this: Christians who use violence in the name of God to destroy their enemies have no justification for their actions from Jesus Christ, his life and teachings as found in the New Testament.

Whereas, Muslims who are engaged in violence and destruction of anyone who opposes Islam, have ample justification for their actions from the Qur'an and the life and sayings of prophet Muhammad.

It is beyond the scope of this paper to quote verses and passages from the Qur'an, the Hadith and biographies of prophet Muhammad (the reader can refer to other articles in the sections Muhammad and his enemies or Islam & Terrorism), but suffice it to say that it is beyond doubt that the prophet of Islam did encourage the killing and intimidation of his enemies, not just in self defense as it is commonly reported by Muslims, but in the promotion of the cause of God and the spread of Islam.

Needless to say, the actions of the prophet were in direct contradiction to the teachings and actions of Jesus Christ and his disciples. So the point is not that Christians have never resorted to violence and other horrible atrocities. They have indeed committed many horrible acts, but when they have done this, they have betrayed the very person that they claim to follow. But when Muslims commit such acts, they can in fact claim that they are following the example of their prophet and thus fulfilling the will of God and promoting His cause. That, certainly, is a big difference!

Article is from www.answering-islam.org 

http://www.inplainsite.org/html/viol..._vs_quran.html

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by invisibleX

So, metaphorically, you're eating elephant poop.

You haven't actually warned anyone of anything. What I am saying is that islam is not the root cause. Time and again you gladly quote people misinterpreting the Qu'ran to support their militant ideas. In essence you buy into it as much as they do. If you actually read it you'd see how even their own quotes directly contradict what they are saying. I am saying militant islams use of religion as a flag is not the cause but an effect. This is easily demonstrated by history, current events, and the text itself. I don't need extremist scholars to demonstrate my points.

If you read the bible you'd find very similar treatises on war as in the Qu'ran. Things like leaving nothing alive. Any religious text can be twisted to its users desires. The text is not the agenda, the interpretation is. So if the text is the elephant, and the interpretation is the poop, you'd have us stare at elephant **** and ignore the problem.

No one is blind and we can all see the threat. Unfortunately you would have people be ignorant of its nature, root cause, or motives. If this makes us unable to combat the problem what does that make you? Another jihadist trying to hide the truth behind a religious smoke-screen?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/ar...TICLE_ID=37905

Why no Christian suicide bombers? And other thoughts on Islamic terror
Posted: April 6, 2004
1:00 a.m. Eastern

Golly gee, Muslim terrorists tried to attack Madrid again. How can that be? Wasn't Muslim terror in Spain supposed to end once Spain appeased the terrorists by voting in the socialists?

Only those who do not understand Muslim terror could fool themselves into believing that.

So, to better understand the subject, I offer three conclusions I drew about terror during my week of broadcasting from Israel last month.

First, Islamic terror is caused by Muslims, not, as Islamic and leftist apologists would have it, by the non-Muslims against whom it is directed. In our morally confused world, Spain, Israel and America are blamed for having their men, women and children blown up: What did these countries do to arouse such enmity among otherwise tolerant Arabs and Muslims?

Palestinian terror provides the answer. About 25 percent of Palestinians are Christian, yet if there are any Palestinian Christian suicide bombers, I am unaware of them. Now why is that? Don't Muslim and leftist apologists incessantly tell us that the reason for Palestinian terror is "Israeli occupation and oppression"? Why, then, are there no Palestinian Christian terrorists? Are Christian Palestinians less occupied?

The answer is obvious. There is Palestinian terror for the same reasons there is Muslim terror elsewhere. A significant part of the Muslim world wishes to destroy those non-Muslims – Americans, Israelis, Filipinos, Nigerians, Sudanese blacks – who prevent Islam from violently attaining power.

Palestinian Muslim terror emanates from a desire to destroy Israel, not to end Israel's occupation of the West Bank. Other Muslim terror is aimed at weakening the West, America in particular, so that militant theocratic Islam can dominate Muslim-majority societies and then take over other societies, as it is slowly doing in Western Europe.

Second, despite the Spanish cave-in to terror, in the long run, terror doesn't work. By any rational calculation, to take the Palestinian example, it has become the most self-destructive policy Palestinians could pursue. Palestinian terror has convinced almost all Israelis outside of academia that the moral gulf between them and the Palestinians is so wide that there is presently no hope for peace.

Nor has Palestinian terror terrorized Israelis. In what will surely be recorded as among the most impressive behaviors of a national group, Israelis have decided to live as normally as possible among people who aim to murder and maim as many of them as possible. In fact, I learned, many Israelis are now concerned that they have done this too well, that there is not enough mourning and rage after each atrocity.

Palestinian terror is self-destructive because it has morally, economically, religiously and politically destroyed Palestinian society and led to its present state of chaos. The mayor of Nablus resigned two months ago, declaring that gangs of thugs now govern Palestinian society. Any society that encourages terror ends up consumed by it. Ask the Saudis.

Third, there is a terrible long-term price that Muslims – Arabs and Palestinians in particular – are paying for the minority that engages in terror and for the majority that says nothing about it or supports it.

They may wish to reflect on the fact that with every act of terror they engage in, their people and religion are increasingly identified with cruelty. Can anyone anywhere name any Palestinian contribution to humanity other than innovative forms of terror and cruelty? On my radio show, the spokesman of Zaka, the Israeli rescue squad that attends to terror victims, told me that at various times Palestinian terrorists have laced the screws attached to their bombs with rat poison, and that at least one of the Palestinian terrorists was injected with the AIDS virus in the hope that his blood would transmit AIDS to wounded Israelis.

Just as the German nation, fairly or not, has had to grapple with the moral legacy of Nazism, and the name of Christianity still suffers (unfairly) because of medieval persecutions of non-Christians, so, too, Islam, Arabs and Palestinians will have to struggle for generations to shed their identification with murdering innocents.

While it is Americans, Israelis and other targets of terror who most suffer individually from Palestinian and other Muslim terror, those with the most to lose are Palestinians, Arabs and Islam.

[mojo2]

Originally Posted by invisibleX

So, metaphorically, you're eating elephant poop.

You haven't actually warned anyone of anything. What I am saying is that islam is not the root cause. Time and again you gladly quote people misinterpreting the Qu'ran to support their militant ideas. In essence you buy into it as much as they do. If you actually read it you'd see how even their own quotes directly contradict what they are saying. I am saying militant islams use of religion as a flag is not the cause but an effect. This is easily demonstrated by history, current events, and the text itself. I don't need extremist scholars to demonstrate my points.

If you read the bible you'd find very similar treatises on war as in the Qu'ran. Things like leaving nothing alive. Any religious text can be twisted to its users desires. The text is not the agenda, the interpretation is. So if the text is the elephant, and the interpretation is the poop, you'd have us stare at elephant **** and ignore the problem.

No one is blind and we can all see the threat. Unfortunately you would have people be ignorant of its nature, root cause, or motives. If this makes us unable to combat the problem what does that make you? Another jihadist trying to hide the truth behind a religious smoke-screen?

Why not match your knowledge and commitment to truth and goodness and peace with Dr. Mark Gabriel's?

I'd say he knows the Koran as well as you.

And by putting his own life on the line by speaking out as he does I'd say he loves peace.

Read of his life and read his message.

http://www.internationalwallofprayer...k-Gabriel.html

WHY ISLAMIC TERRORISTS DO WHAT THEY DO
by Dr. Mark Gabriel
ABOUT THE AUTHOR..

Dr. Mark Gabriel, former professor of Islamic history at Al-Azhar University in Cairo, Egypt, the most prestigious Islamic Univeristy in the world, was able to quote the entire Quran by the time he was twelve years old. Raised in Egypt, in the midst of a breeding ground of Islamic terrorists, he spent his formative years deep inside the confines of Muslim influence.  His own family disowned him after he converted to Christianity, and angry Muslims tried to kill him several times.  He escaped his homeland and now resides in the United States.  As a reflection of his new life in Christ, he chose a Christian name to replace his Muslim name.