Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

nonhuman · Sep 21, 2006, 07:01 AM

This is quite possibly the most depressing thread I've ever read. Can we just elect Millennium president?

DLQ2006 · Sep 21, 2006, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Fortunately, not just the Supreme Court, but also Congress disagrees (all of them with (and hopefully not despote) conservative majorities). Indeed all detainees of gitmo and other secret prisons are eligible to the Geneva Conventions. That's the official stance of Congress and the Judiciary -- which doesn't leave much room to maneuver for the executive branch.

The fact that the Supreme Court and Congress disagrees shows just how soft of a country we have become. We couldn't have won any other war we've fought like this, and we won't win the war against terrorism like this either. In 50 years or so when people are recovering from radiation sickness because that nutjob in Iran or some other nutjub was able to buy the technology to nuke us, we'll be able to say that atleast we gave all the terrorists and wanna be terrorists as much rights as we give any American accused of a domestic crime.

OreoCookie · Sep 21, 2006, 04:57 PM

Being `hard' is just a pretense that you put on when you run out of ideas.

ink · Sep 21, 2006, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Me? If it came down to it, I'd rather die to keep my kids free than leave them with a fascist state no better than the ones we're supposedly trying to stop from taking over.

And the neocons will call you a coward for having those convictions.

Brilliant, no?

ink · Sep 21, 2006, 05:17 PM

Originally Posted by DBursey

I love anecdotes that involve bra's. Apparently my wife's metal-clad 'D' cuppers have thus-far eluded any boob-groping issues at airport security. At least any she'll 'fess up to.

My wife had to take her bra off at the airport shortly after 9/11. She hasn't had to since; perhaps the metal detectors were retro-fit with a boobie recognition algorithm. That would be a cool software job.

subego · Sep 22, 2006, 05:32 AM

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

is to lose your country

Originally Posted by DLQ2006

In 50 years or so when people are recovering from radiation sickness because that nutjob in Iran or some other nutjub was able to buy the technology to nuke us

Can either of you flesh out these vague scenarios? I don't think you do your points any justice by forcing me to fill in a bunch of blanks.

I'm no doubt filling them with answers unsympathetic to your arguments.

Wiskedjak · Sep 22, 2006, 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by DLQ2006

... we won't win the war against terrorism like this either.

Define "success" in the war against terrorism

ink · Sep 28, 2006, 03:44 AM

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

Define "success" in the war against terrorism

Well, since none of the conservatives have stepped up, I thought I'd offer a few suggestions. God knows that I'm not perfect, but here it goes:

Not allowing evil events to direct one's way of life.

Continuing to invest in science, education and technology despite the backwards, thuggish actions of others.

Trust one's friends and disassociate with one's enemies.

Avoid taking or giving offense as much as reasonably possible.

Treating others as one would like to be treated.

houstonmacbro · Sep 28, 2006, 04:11 AM

Originally Posted by voodoo

Well said and 100% agreed. This is exactly how I feel. And I am not American. Good to know there still are true patriots in the US.

V

i've always wondered why fear plays a big part in everything. what are we as americans so afraid of all the time?

it is almost paranoidal (is that a word?)

Taliesin · Sep 28, 2006, 04:51 AM

Ok, americans are willing to give up freedoms for safety, but are you willing to give up having sex for safety?

Taliesin

houstonmacbro · Sep 28, 2006, 04:52 AM

i pretty much have.

ink · Sep 28, 2006, 06:06 AM

http://www.flyertalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=606142

It looks like writing an innoculous opinion on a ziploc bag is now verboten.

I wonder if I can put a 3.5 ounce bottle of Paul Mitchell shampoo in a bag on my flight back from Houston. Perhaps it will be confiscated, in order to "protect" me from Osama Bin Laden.

Has my country gone completely insane?

Kevin · Sep 28, 2006, 08:35 AM

I surely hope none of your family members ever get killed in a terrorist attack.

Maybe there would be less sarcastic posting

smileys and puns going about.

It's so easy to dissasociate such event when it didn't really effect your life in a drastic measure I guess.

Taliesin · Sep 28, 2006, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by houstonmacbro

i pretty much have.

Really?
Talk about it.

Taliesin

dcmacdaddy · Sep 28, 2006, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

I surely hope none of your family members ever get killed in a terrorist attack.

Maybe there would be less sarcastic posting

smileys and puns going about.

It's so easy to dissasociate such event when it didn't really effect your life in a drastic measure I guess.

Are you assuming that people who lost a loved one in the 9/11 attacks would suddenly become immune to criticisms of the way in which we have responded to those attacks? Why do you presume that those who lost a love one will not be equally incensed by the measures taken to protect us from another attack? That seems to be an awfully big assumption to make on your part.

Kevin · Sep 28, 2006, 08:44 AM

That isn't what I was saying DC. You are making up arguements out of the blue.

I am talking about the sarcastic smarmy comments.

Go re-read my post please.

dcmacdaddy · Sep 28, 2006, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

That isn't what I was saying DC. You are making up arguements out of the blue.

I am talking about the sarcastic smarmy comments.

Go re-read my post please.

I did read it several times. You seem to be trying to establish a link between being part of a family that lost a loved one due to terrorist attacks and the willingness to make smarmy, sarcastic commments about anti-terrorism measures in this country? And you seem to be suggesting that the willingness to make smarmy, sarcastic comments about anti-terrorism measures in this country would be diminished if someone did have a family relation killed is a terrorist attack.

Is that not true? Or to put it another way, why do you mention the families of victims of terrorist attacks at all in a discussion about current measures to prevent terrorist attacks?

Chuckit · Sep 28, 2006, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

I surely hope none of your family members ever get killed in a terrorist attack.

Maybe there would be less sarcastic posting

smileys and puns going about.

It's so easy to dissasociate such event when it didn't really effect your life in a drastic measure I guess.

Where did that come from? He was making sarcastic comments about what he sees as unnecessarily restrictive political policies, not going, "LOL people died!"

nonhuman · Sep 28, 2006, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

I surely hope none of your family members ever get killed in a terrorist attack.

Maybe there would be less sarcastic posting

smileys and puns going about.

It's so easy to dissasociate such event when it didn't really effect your life in a drastic measure I guess.

I lost a family member on 9/11. Yet I think most would agree that I'm highly sarcastic, and fond of puns. Even in situations like this.

BlackGriffen · Sep 28, 2006, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by himself

It really makes little sense to me when I hear people say that "Americans should support the war [on terror] because this a war for our freedom!" but in the very next breath, they are willing to capitulate any (or possible all) of that "freedom" out of hysterical fear. What ever happened to all of that talk about "if we change our way of life, the terrorists have won?" Everyone was saying those things when our "leaders" promised us a quick, clean, and easy war, and thought that it would really unfold that way. Now that it has been a few years and the situation appears to be getting worse, the majority of Americans are reneging on that mantra, and showing themselves to be spineless cowards. And that really breaks my heart.

Yes, the cognitive dissonance must be mind shattering.

BG

BlackGriffen · Sep 28, 2006, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Taliesin

Ok, americans are willing to give up freedoms for safety, but are you willing to give up having sex for safety?

Taliesin

Is that a marriage proposal?

BG

BlackGriffen · Sep 28, 2006, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

I surely hope none of your family members ever get killed in a terrorist attack.

Maybe there would be less sarcastic posting

smileys and puns going about.

It's so easy to dissasociate such event when it didn't really effect your life in a drastic measure I guess.

Where are most of those families, I wonder...

By golly, they're in New York! I don't think you'll find New York favorable to Bush's Big Brother tendencies.

BG

ink · Sep 29, 2006, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

I surely hope none of your family members ever get killed in a terrorist attack.

Maybe there would be less sarcastic posting

smileys and puns going about.

It's so easy to dissasociate such event when it didn't really effect your life in a drastic measure I guess.

As has been stated by others, I would rather die than live without freedom.

I still haven't seen any scientific papers on the possibilities of creating a liquid bomb on a plane with 8oz bottles. Frankly, I highly suspect that such a terrorist would have a greater chance of burning his hands off than doing any serious structural damage to the airplane; one would probably need some sort of lattice delivery mechanism or catalyst that would show up on xray scans...

I do find this whole fiasco quite funny. We're jumping at shadows because we're scared of the terrorists.

Which is exactly what they wanted to achieve.

ghporter · Sep 29, 2006, 09:57 PM

There are a number of chemicals that, when mixed, cause all sorts of mischief. And with an enclosed space like an aircraft cabin, you do NOT want to release a mixture of, say, amonia and chlorine bleach. Blow up? No. But it will indeed kill people fast and nasty. Might even get the flight crew and thus doom the whole plane.

I agree that the U. S. government is apparently "jumping at shadows" in terms of how they deal with airline security, but that's only a part of the situation. What about the other stuff that good men and women are working on behind the scenes. Accountants tracking back tons of money to bad people comes to mind. But how do you get the public's attention with some accountant pouring over someone's books? They have to do something public. How much of a problem was not taking your travel tube of Crest on a flight, anyway? Not being able to take my half-full cup of Starbucks would have been a bigger problem for me...

besson3c · Sep 29, 2006, 11:10 PM

I still remain convinced that terrorism is completely over-hyped and used as a manipulative tool by politicians. It is one of many threats we face, but it has been given far too much attention, IMHO.

Kevin · Sep 30, 2006, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

I did read it several times. You seem to be trying to establish a link between being part of a family that lost a loved one due to terrorist attacks and the willingness to make smarmy, sarcastic commments about anti-terrorism measures in this country? And you seem to be suggesting that the willingness to make smarmy, sarcastic comments about anti-terrorism measures in this country would be diminished if someone did have a family relation killed is a terrorist attack.

Is that not true? Or to put it another way, why do you mention the families of victims of terrorist attacks at all in a discussion about current measures to prevent terrorist attacks?

No, lets put it this way. My comment was ONLY about people who make light of such events. I am saying I doubt if they had a loved one that died in such a event, if they would be acting that way.

There is no hidden meaning. No spin.

It's just that simple.

Put that knee down before hitting submit.

Kevin · Sep 30, 2006, 12:45 AM

Originally Posted by BlackGriffen

Where are most of those families, I wonder...

By golly, they're in New York! I don't think you'll find New York favorable to Bush's Big Brother tendencies.

BG

Well it's a good thing I never said anything about anyone liking anyone's tendencies.

What is with you guys and the straw-man arguments?

I must have hit a nerve.

Kevin · Sep 30, 2006, 12:48 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

I still remain convinced that terrorism is completely over-hyped and used as a manipulative tool by politicians. It is one of many threats we face, but it has been given far too much attention, IMHO.

Even though it happens daily. Right.

Terrorism is a tool used to manipulate. But the terrorists are using it.

And no, it isn't to change any political ideals. It's to scare us into changing our sinful ways and convert to Islam.

If the US pulled out of everything, and became isolationists again, it would only encourage them.

Nothing would get better.

Chuckit · Sep 30, 2006, 01:43 AM

Originally Posted by Kevin

Even though it happens daily.

So do most of the world's evils.

Face Ache · Sep 30, 2006, 04:40 AM

Originally Posted by ink

As has been stated by others, I would rather die than live without freedom.

What keeps us going is love and hope.

But feel free to die for whatever you like.

Chuckit · Sep 30, 2006, 04:46 AM

Originally Posted by Face Ache

What keeps us going is love and hope.

How much hope can you have in a place where you don't control your own life?

Nicko · Sep 30, 2006, 04:51 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

There are a number of chemicals that, when mixed, cause all sorts of mischief. And with an enclosed space like an aircraft cabin, you do NOT want to release a mixture of, say, amonia and chlorine bleach. Blow up? No. But it will indeed kill people fast and nasty. Might even get the flight crew and thus doom the whole plane.

What about people who know kung-fu? Should people with a black belt be declared weapons and be tied up for the duration of their flight for the safety of the passengers? Or perhaps sedated?

red rocket · Sep 30, 2006, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by Nicko

What about people who know kung-fu? Should people with a black belt be declared weapons and be tied up for the duration of their flight for the safety of the passengers? Or perhaps sedated?

That isn't as far-fetched as you might think. The instructor at this dojo I was going to years ago once told us that once you've progressed past a certain belt, you'd no longer be legally able to use self defense against an armed attacker the same way you used to, as the police and the courts would take your superior martial arts skills into account and view them as a weapon. It wasn't even a black belt.

ink · Oct 1, 2006, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by Nicko

What about people who know kung-fu? Should people with a black belt be declared weapons and be tied up for the duration of their flight for the safety of the passengers? Or perhaps sedated?

Tsk tsk. No smilies. It's not funny.

What about matches and a 3oz botle of alcohol?

We can find demons to jump at all over the place, especially in an election year.