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Anyone See The Movie "Maxed Out?" (Credit System Bankrupt) (Page 2)
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CRASH HARDDRIVE
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Jul 20, 2007, 12:00 AM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
My paychecks are about $1300 each, every two weeks. I spend a little more than that a month on my credit card.

...So, no. It's not debt.
Moving anything more than about 15% of your income through credit can certainly lead to debt, and you're doing at least 50%. Are you paying the balance every month, or letting the balance carry? Revolving interest on that amount can really sneak up on you.

I'm not passing any judgements, just pointing it out. Sounds like you're at least aware of your expenses and not frivolous with your card, but you could certainly slide deeply into debt if any unexpected circumstance came up.

I'm personally not against credit cards, but it bugs me that more isn't taught to people about credit, accumulating interest and how carrying a balance can literally suck the money out of your wallet. If a person isn't careful, they can end up paying a large percentage of their income to MasterCard or Visa for LIFE. For most people, this is often the money they could be paying themselves into investments, healthcare, retirement, etc.
     
Eug
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Jul 20, 2007, 12:32 AM
 
I put as much as possible as I can on my credit card too.

Why?

1) Better documentation of purchases.
2) Cash back on all charges. (I get a few hundred bux cash back every year.)
3) Extended warranties. (I just got a broken camera lens fixed with this. Saved me ~$400.)
4) Payment deferral for a couple of weeks.
5) Free insurance for rental cars, etc.
6) Free enrollment for auto club (jumps, tows).
7) Free travellers cheques.

All in all, I think I've saved/made about $1500-2000 since getting this particular Visa card a few years ago. Interest paid? $0.

P.S. Often when I go into a store and purchase something, they may offer me say 10% off a large purchase if I apply for their store credit card. Usually I will agree, regardless of how bad the credit card's interest rate is. I just take advantage of the 10% discount, pay it off immediately, and then cancel the card. Works for me.
     
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Jul 20, 2007, 12:53 AM
 
Wow. This thread took off. Pretty good.



We used to have about $100K in debt. Credit debt and other debts. Paid it all off about four years ago. Now we have zero debt. If we can't pay cash for it new we look for it used and if we're going to buy it we pay cash for it. Some things we can't buy used, but most things can be purchased for cash. New furniture? Craigslist. New Car? Used. Anything we want it has to be discounted in some way and we pay cash. We like to get good deals.

The nice thing is that I can look around the house and see that everything in the place is paid for in full. Everything.

Really like knowing that we have basic utilities to pay and a mortgage and that's it. I'd rather drive a used car that is paid in full than drive a brand new car that I owe too much on. Someone driving a 10-year old car that is paid in full is a person I respect more than the person driving a new Ferrari that he put on credit.

Embracing your financial limits means that you have financial integrity.

The worst thing is paying off a depreciating asset - with interest.
     
shifuimam
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Jul 20, 2007, 07:09 AM
 
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy View Post
I think most of that was the mortgage on both houses. We had a vacation home in the mountains along with our 'regular' home. The remainder was a car payment and a motor home payment. We had no actual credit card debt. Our income was something near $180,000/yr. I don't think we were overextended. Most people owe over $200,000 on their home and have less income than we did.
So you could afford to make both mortgage payments and both vehicle payments in full, on time, every time, every month? If not, you were overextending yourself. If so, and you were dependent on two incomes, that was a stupid move and you were indirectly overextending yourself. When my parents got married, my dad fought about it, but my mom made sure that her entire paycheck was going straight to savings - they lived off his paycheck and were able to buy their first home much more quickly that people usually can (being able to make a 20% down payment that is - anything less and it means you can't afford that house).

Because you borrowed money. There are a lot of ways to justify borrowing money. But none of them make as much sense as not borrowing money.
Ever heard the phrase "you gotta spend money to make money"? Even investing money in anything other than bonds and a savings account is a financial risk, but you'll accrue almost no interest. If you're fine with that, then great. But the rest of us are interested in bettering our lives through more financial stability - and that requires a level of financial risk.

I've yet to meet the person who found wealth through being in debt.
So you don't know a single person who has made money through real estate? Know anyone who started their own business? You must just know a bunch of corporate types who sit on their money and refuse to try and make more money with the money they already have. Like my dad. Who is in debt up to his ears and will never stop making payments on at least one thing until he dies. And he makes $250,000 a year by his income alone. But I know plenty of people who make less than him and are more financially stable than he'll ever be.

I guess what I'm saying is that you become a slave to the creditor. I'd rather pay rent, thank you.
No, what you're saying is that you'd rather be a slave to a lease agreement (a contract) with ridiculous early termination charges. And if you have found a place that lets you pay by month, then you're slave to the fact that your rent is more than your neighbors' rent, since you're more of a financial liability to the property owner.

I'd rather invest my money in a home that has financial return, thank you very much.

I know it must be difficult to defend the use of credit. All I can say is there's never any reason to defend the use of cash.
But it's what you've been trying to do - defend why you use cash and vehemently think that nobody else should use credit cards. It's not difficult at all to defend the use of credit. The points I came up with were off the top of my head - security against fraud in online purchasing and travelling, financial gain through home ownership, etc. Can you tell me how using cash is better security against fraud and theft? If someone steals your bank card and gets your PIN number (or uses it as a check card and forges your signature), is it easy to get your money back compared to getting illegitimate charges removed from a credit card? I really doubt it.

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE View Post
Moving anything more than about 15% of your income through credit can certainly lead to debt, and you're doing at least 50%. Are you paying the balance every month, or letting the balance carry? Revolving interest on that amount can really sneak up on you.
You missed what I wrote, then. I put everything on my card and pay it off in full every month. One paycheck goes to savings, one paycheck goes to living expenses. Moving more than 15% of your income away from savings period can lead to debt, but that's an unrealistic way to live unless you've got a six-figure income or more.

I'm not passing any judgements, just pointing it out. Sounds like you're at least aware of your expenses and not frivolous with your card, but you could certainly slide deeply into debt if any unexpected circumstance came up.
My credit limit keeps me from overextending my card. I've never maxed out my card, but my limit is less than my total monthly income. If unexepcted circumstances come up, I have $10,000 in savings to help handle that, as well as an extremely good credit score that will qualify me for a personal loan if I am encountered with major medical expenses.

I'm personally not against credit cards, but it bugs me that more isn't taught to people about credit, accumulating interest and how carrying a balance can literally suck the money out of your wallet. If a person isn't careful, they can end up paying a large percentage of their income to MasterCard or Visa for LIFE. For most people, this is often the money they could be paying themselves into investments, healthcare, retirement, etc.
I completely agree. If you are spending more than you make, you are overextending yourself. This means that if your credit limit on all your cards combined is more than your monthly income, you have a problem.

Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I put as much as possible as I can on my credit card too.

Why?

1) Better documentation of purchases.
2) Cash back on all charges. (I get a few hundred bux cash back every year.)
3) Extended warranties. (I just got a broken camera lens fixed with this. Saved me ~$400.)
4) Payment deferral for a couple of weeks.
5) Free insurance for rental cars, etc.
6) Free enrollment for auto club (jumps, tows).
7) Free travellers cheques.

All in all, I think I've saved/made about $1500-2000 since getting this particular Visa card a few years ago. Interest paid? $0.
I agree with this completely. Using my credit card for everything is an excellent way to control my spending. If my credit card bill is $1700 instead of the usual $1500 one month, I can print out my card statement from my bank (I use paperless billing), pull out some highlighters, and quickly categorize and add up all my purchases to figure out where I was spending more than usual. Trying to decipher receipts that are faded and crinkled or went through the wash is a hell of a lot more tedious and difficult.

P.S. Often when I go into a store and purchase something, they may offer me say 10% off a large purchase if I apply for their store credit card. Usually I will agree, regardless of how bad the credit card's interest rate is. I just take advantage of the 10% discount, pay it off immediately, and then cancel the card. Works for me.
Have you run your credit report recently? Although it will show up on your report to do so, I would strongly suggest you pay the $6 to get your actual credit score when you run your free annual report. Many times, opening credit cards and quickly closing them will actually hurt your credit score, so be careful with that. I used to do the same thing, but decided it wasn't worth the marks on my credit report. I now have one store-specific credit card - my Kohl's charge card, because I buy all my clothes there and get a coupon every month for 15, 20, or 30% off my purchase - plus birthday and holiday discounts. Just make sure that you're not hurting your credit score through opening and closing multiple cards.

Originally Posted by  View Post
We used to have about $100K in debt. Credit debt and other debts. Paid it all off about four years ago. Now we have zero debt. If we can't pay cash for it new we look for it used and if we're going to buy it we pay cash for it. Some things we can't buy used, but most things can be purchased for cash. New furniture? Craigslist. New Car? Used. Anything we want it has to be discounted in some way and we pay cash. We like to get good deals.

The nice thing is that I can look around the house and see that everything in the place is paid for in full. Everything.
And that is truly the way that everyone should be living. Nobody should have to look around and see that their computer, their couch, their TV, their appliances...that anything is being paid for with monthly payments. The only time I ever suggest my boyfriend make payments on something was with his new sofa, and he qualified for 0% financing through the store. We made explicitly certain that his total cost would be the same as if he'd paid it all up front, and he agreed later that it was nice to not have to spend $1200 all at once when he could spread it out over a few months. 0% loans are great if you can pay them off in time. I knew someone who had $5,000 in credit card debt that he kept transferring to new 0% cards. He'd transfer the balance and not get it paid off in time and be hit with a 12% interest rate, thus continuing to increase his debt. Bad idea.

Really like knowing that we have basic utilities to pay and a mortgage and that's it. I'd rather drive a used car that is paid in full than drive a brand new car that I owe too much on. Someone driving a 10-year old car that is paid in full is a person I respect more than the person driving a new Ferrari that he put on credit.
Absolutely. My mother raised me to believe that making payments on anything besides a house is a bad idea (mortgage interest is tax-deductible, so it can actually help you). We always bought our cars for cash, and once in my entire childhood did we have a new car - a Nissan Maxima GXE that we bought brand new for $16,000 cash in 1990. I drive my boyfriend crazy about that - the idea of not making payments on cars. He just finished paying off his Subaru in May, and was already considering selling it to his dad (who drives an '89 Mazda MPV) and buying another new car - on payments! I explained to him what a bad idea this was financially, and he finally decided to keep his car and enjoy the extra $500 a month in his bank account.

Embracing your financial limits means that you have financial integrity.
Absolutely, but our culture has told us that making payments on things is the acceptable way to live. Being happy with what you have is never good enough.

The worst thing is paying off a depreciating asset - with interest.
Again, I completely agree with you on this one. But again, our culture has told us that financing everything in your life is acceptable and normal, and that paying for things in cash is abnormal and only for evil rich people.

I'm actually surprised. Your original post made it seem like you believed that the credit card companies and credit scoring system are to blame for people's financial failures. It appears that your opinion is much more well-rounded than that.
( Last edited by shifuimam; Jul 20, 2007 at 08:47 AM. )
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Jul 20, 2007, 10:41 AM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
I now have one store-specific credit card - my Kohl's charge card, because I buy all my clothes there ...
This explains a LOT!
     
Spliffdaddy
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Jul 20, 2007, 11:26 AM
 
Wow. I just got a lecture about real estate investing. Didn't realize I've been doing it wrong all this time.
     
Eug
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Jul 20, 2007, 01:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy View Post
Wow. I just got a lecture about real estate investing. Didn't realize I've been doing it wrong all this time.
Funny you should say that, considering you're the first to lecture people about financial matters, whether or not people want your advice.
( Last edited by Eug; Jul 20, 2007 at 01:37 PM. )
     
shifuimam
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Jul 20, 2007, 02:04 PM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
This explains a LOT!
I buy all my underwear at Victoria's Secret. Does that count for anything?

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy View Post
Wow. I just got a lecture about real estate investing. Didn't realize I've been doing it wrong all this time.
Says the person who earlier gave the very snide remark "I'd rather pay rent, thank you.", as if buying a home is stupid or financially incorrect. In fact, you made it sound as though the rest of us "have been doing it wrong all this time" because we choose to own our homes and use credit cards responsibly. I have never been at risk for declaring personal bankruptcy. As great as you say it was to do so, it's better to never be in that position in the first place. It's possible to avoid it while still using credit.

You really believe that locking yourself into a yearlong (or longer) lease and paying someone else's mortgage (which is exactly what rent is) is better than owning your own home? That is is more financially secure? What about if you default on your rent and get evicted? You can get a mortgage for as much as you'd be paying rent - it's not difficult to get a mortgage for under $800 a month. The difference is that you are invested in your home, and when you want to move is up to you - not up to your lease end date.

You really have no friends or aquaintances who have started their own businesses or made money in real estate or simply made a good home investment and reaped the benefits several years later? I find that interesting,

You can do whatever you want with your money - but don't discredit the rest of us because we are smart and mature and can use credit wisely. You're not better than us. At all.
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Spliffdaddy
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Jul 20, 2007, 02:17 PM
 
um,Ok.



If you're so smart and mature why do you depend on a check from your employer?

Call me crazy, but I don't take advice from people who are less well off financially.

Maybe, just maybe, you could take advice from somebody that makes a living without being some employer's bitch.

I'm decades ahead. And I'd love to help you.
     
Spliffdaddy
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Jul 20, 2007, 02:22 PM
 
If you owe money you're doing it wrong. That's pretty simple.
     
shifuimam
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Jul 20, 2007, 02:25 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy View Post
um,Ok.



If you're so smart and mature why do you depend on a check from your employer?

Call me crazy, but I don't take advice from people who are less well off financially.

Maybe, just maybe, you could take advice from somebody that makes a living without being some employer's bitch.

I'm decades ahead. And I'd love to help you.
I'm actually in the early stages of starting my own business. If you don't depend on a check from your employer, where does your income come from? Own your own company? Then you're depending on your customers for money - and you are you're customers' "bitch". Unless you have figured out how to turn dirt into money (I'd love to know the secret, by the way!), you will always be dependent on someone or something for financial stability. The money has to come from somewhere.

I'm only 23. I'm guessing that when I get to be your age (however old you are), I'll be as well off or more financially stable than you are. Don't treat me like I'm less than you because I make different choices than you.

Maybe, just maybe, I could take advice from the one person I know with the highest credit rating I've personally known someone to have - which isn't you. Thanks for the rude offer, but you're not "decades ahead" because you aren't secure enough in your finances to take risks. I don't need financial help. I'm extremely financially secure for my age, there's nothing wrong with how I do things, and your opinions are just that - subjective opinions. You have no right to look down on the rest of us because we own homes and use credit cards. What the hell is wrong with you?
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Jul 20, 2007, 02:26 PM
 
Look me up when you make a living on your own.
     
shifuimam
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Jul 20, 2007, 02:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy View Post
If you owe money you're doing it wrong. That's pretty simple.
I've already been over this. The amount of money I spend on my credit card is identical to what I would spend in cold, hard cash. Using a credit card offers buyer protection against fraud and theft. If you want to get 100% literal, then yes I do "owe" money on my card at any given time. But I could pay off my card every time I put a charge on it, so how is that different from carrying around cash or just using a debit card?

I have zero debt. I owe nobody anything. So by your logic, I'm not doing anything wrong.

That's pretty simple, if you ask me.
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Jul 20, 2007, 02:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy View Post
Look me up when you make a living on your own.
Okay Spliff, spill. How do you make money without being dependent on anyone? If you're making a living "on your own", which I'm sure means "dependent on nobody", then you must not have customers that pay you. You must not have an employer that signs your check. Where does the money come from? Where are you getting this magic money that allows you to be 100% financially independent to the extreme that your money literally comes from nobody but yourself?

I also like how you have carefully avoided the parts of my previous posts where I have pointed out that paying rent is paying someone else's mortgage for them. You are your landlord's bitch. At least consider that.
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Jul 20, 2007, 02:32 PM
 
you have a mortgage? am I right?
     
Spliffdaddy
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Jul 20, 2007, 02:33 PM
 
I'm an independent residential builder. I don't depend on anybody to make a living. There is nothing I can't do by myself. The money comes from my bank account.

edit: you can't win this debate
     
shifuimam
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Jul 20, 2007, 02:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy View Post
I'm an independent residential builder. I don't depend on anybody to make a living. There is nothing I can't do by myself.
So where does the money come from to pay for the supplies? The people that buy your homes? Those are customers, babe. You depend on your residential property selling in order to be able to earn the money to build the homes.

Or do you really have magic money?

<edit>
The only way I'll lose is if you can't admit that people can succeed financially while owning homes and working for people other than themselves.

Oh wait...since you seem hellbent on forcing everyone around into your tiny tiny box, I guess I did lose.

Damn. It's a good thing I don't depend on you for affirmation that my life is very financially stable. Because, you know, I make decisions based on experiences of my own and on experiences of those I know personally - not some kneejerk anonymous person who trolls the internet trying to force everyone to think like him.
</edit>
( Last edited by shifuimam; Jul 20, 2007 at 04:32 PM. )
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Jul 20, 2007, 02:39 PM
 
Once again...you can't win. I love you but you will still lose.
     
shifuimam
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Jul 20, 2007, 02:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy View Post
Once again...you can't win. I love you but you will still lose.
So what defines winning? Conforming myself to how you choose to live your life?

<edit>
You are also avoiding the part where you tell me how you are 100% independent and don't depend on anyone to earn the money to run your business. Explain, please. I'd love to know how you run a business without relying on customers.
</edit>
( Last edited by shifuimam; Jul 20, 2007 at 04:30 PM. )
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Jul 20, 2007, 02:42 PM
 
I don't borrow money. I'm the guy that loans money to those that need it. I will never be the guy owes anybody.

People that owe money make me money/
     
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Jul 20, 2007, 02:45 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy View Post
I don't borrow money. I'm the guy that loans money to those that need it. I will never be the guy owes anybody.

People that owe money make me money/
Where do you get the money to lend to people? Where do you get the money to develop residential buildings?

Tell me exactly how. I am extremely interested to know how I, too, can run a business that does not depend on customers to earn income. That is certainly your attitude.

So people "that owe money" - I'm assuming via mortgages - make you money. You still are financially dependent on someone buying the house you build. By renting you are your landlord's bitch instead of the bank's bitch. By owning a business you are your customers' bitch instead of your employer's bitch. But you're always somebody's bitch.
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Jul 20, 2007, 02:46 PM
 
I'm sure your longterm goal is to not owe money. That's a righteous goal. Focus on it. When you get there I will be impressed. I'm cool like that.
     
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Jul 20, 2007, 02:49 PM
 
I make money by building houses and selling them at a profit. I don't borrow money in order to do that. My cash reserves are the result of working at a real job for 16 years - along with the money I made from selling houses I built. People like you are the reason I make money. You get a loan to buy my house and I get a big check from your mortgage company. I've also been known to carry a mortgage for a buyer.
     
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Jul 20, 2007, 02:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy View Post
I'm sure your longterm goal is to not owe money. That's a righteous goal. Focus on it. When you get there I will be impressed. I'm cool like that.
And you are squarely ignoring me. YOU ARE NO LESS SOMEONE'S BITCH THAN ANYBODY ELSE IS. Get that through your arrogant head.

You're not "cool like that". You are acting very self-righteous at this point.

Continue to judge everyone around you. It's a really fulfilling way to live your life.

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy View Post
I make money by building houses and selling them at a profit. I don't borrow money in order to that. My cash reserves are the result of working at a real job for 16 years - along with the money I made from selling houses I built. People like you are the reason I make money. You get a loan to buy my house and I get a big check from your mortgage company. I've also been known to carry a mortgage for a buyer.
So you did have a job at one point. Without that real job - without being an employer's bitch - it would be impossible to be where you are now. When there is no housing boom and interest rates are in the double digits like when Jimmy Carter was in office, your financial state will change.

I never said you borrowed money to build houses. I said that you had to be getting the money from somewhere. Regardless of where it's coming from, you have to be somebody's bitch to make money. It's not just going to fall into your lap.
( Last edited by shifuimam; Jul 20, 2007 at 04:30 PM. )
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Jul 20, 2007, 03:02 PM
 
I make a six figure income while building houses in the single worst area of the nation. I started out with $46,000 from a early retirement check from my employer, AT&T. That was 2.5 years ago. Today I have assets that exceed $250,000 and I don't owe anybody except for the $4500 I owe the heat/AC contractor for my latest house. I haven't borrowed any money since late 1999. There's no way I can lose money in real estate. I'm already making money in the worst housing market in the nation. My ability to do most of the construction without hiring contractors is where my money is made. I can take $70,000 and turn that into $115,000 in less than 4 months. I'm not getting rich, but I do alright.
     
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Jul 20, 2007, 03:09 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy View Post
I make a six figure income while building houses in the single worst area of the nation. I started out with $46,000 from a early retirement check from my employer, AT&T. That was 2.5 years ago. Today I have assets that exceed $250,000 and I don't owe anybody except for the $4500 I owe the heat/AC contractor for my latest house. I haven't borrowed any money since late 1999. There's no way I can lose money in real estate. I'm already making money in the worst housing market in the nation. My ability to do most of the construction without hiring contractors is where my money is made. I can take $70,000 and turn that into $115,000 in less than 4 months. I'm not getting rich, but I do alright.
Yes, you can lose money in real estate. You are completely underestimating what can happen in the long run (2.5 years isn't sh!t in the world of real estate). It's great that you make so much money. It's not great that you talk down to the rest of us and look down on us because we don't own our own businesses and we choose to use credit responsibly.

If you had a terrible injury that caused you permanent physical disability, perhaps you would quit being such a jerk about your life choices. I have an uncle who does exactly what you do - he can afford to simply not work during the winter months (and other times) because he makes so much money building houses in the mountains of Colorado. But he's not an asshole the way that you are.

I don't have a problem with what you do. I have a problem with your attitude about it. I have a problem with how you treat people who aren't exactly like you. I have a problem with the way that you pass immediate judgement on people because they disagree with you. Being an arrogant dick is never excusable. I have a problem with the fact that you were AT&T's bitch yet look down on those of us who still work for corporations (or simply have employers).

I feel like I'm repeating myself here, because you apparently are deliberately blinding yourself to what I say.
( Last edited by shifuimam; Jul 20, 2007 at 04:29 PM. )
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Spliffdaddy
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Jul 20, 2007, 03:11 PM
 
i would be thrilled to show somebody how to do what I do. I don't "look down" on people that owe money. hell, I owed money most of my life. I just want other people to feel like I do. To not feel like a bitch to their employer or their mortgage company. Scroll back up. I never said I feel superior to people who owe money. I don't think I'm better than they are. I think you're better than you think you are.
Edit: PM me and I'll show you how to make money in real estate. If I can help one person to not work for the man my life will be worthwhile.
( Last edited by Spliffdaddy; Jul 20, 2007 at 03:19 PM. )
     
Spliffdaddy
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Jul 20, 2007, 03:25 PM
 
Did you honestly think I feel good when a family buys my house and signs their life away for 30 years? I feel like crap. Sure I get a check and I make a profit, but it's at the expense of a nice family that has to pay a mortgage company for fully half their life. There's no easy way to make a living in this country. I build houses that I would be happy to live in and I hope that other people feel the same way. I'm not special. Most of the time I'd rather have my old job back. That way I could go to sleep every night and not worry about what I'll be doing tomorrow. I'd love to let somebody else worry about that.

Take a few minutes and read what I had to say about the last house I built. Come back and tell me I don't give a crap about what I do.

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Jul 20, 2007, 03:48 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
What the hell is wrong with you?
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
You're an arrogant asshole.
...
not some kneejerk asshole who trolls the internet trying to force everyone to think like him.
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
You're not "cool like that". You're a jerk. You're judgemental, self-righteous, and an all-around asshole.

Continue to judge everyone around you. It's a really fulfilling way to live your life.
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
But he's not an asshole the way that you are.

I don't have a problem with what you do. I have a problem with your attitude about it. I have a problem with how you treat people who aren't exactly like you. I have a problem with the way that you pass immediate judgement on people because they disagree with you. Being an arrogant dick is never excusable.

You're an arrogant asshole.
See those quotes above? Many people have been banned for much, much, much less.

Why all the name calling? The profanity? The rude and harassing posting?

I think it's insecurity. But hey, who am I to be telling you how to live your life.
     
Dakarʒ
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Jul 20, 2007, 03:52 PM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
See those quotes above? Many people have been banned for much, much, much less.

Why all the name calling? The profanity? The rude and harassing posting?

I think it's insecurity. But hey, who am I to be telling you how to live your life.
Yeah, spliffy was being real mature and addressing her points.

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy View Post
Call me crazy, but I don't take advice from people who are less well off financially.
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy View Post
Look me up when you make a living on your own.
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy View Post
Once again...you can't win. I love you but you will still lose.
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy View Post
edit: you can't win this debate
     
Spliffdaddy
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Jul 20, 2007, 03:54 PM
 
I don't mind if somebody calls me names. After 40 years of life I've learned to deal with it. Sometimes I think that what motivates me is those folks that tell me I can't succeed. I need a reason to excel.
     
Eug
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Jul 20, 2007, 04:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy View Post
I make a six figure income while building houses in the single worst area of the nation. I started out with $46,000 from a early retirement check from my employer, AT&T. That was 2.5 years ago. Today I have assets that exceed $250,000 and I don't owe anybody except for the $4500 I owe the heat/AC contractor for my latest house. I haven't borrowed any money since late 1999. There's no way I can lose money in real estate. I'm already making money in the worst housing market in the nation. My ability to do most of the construction without hiring contractors is where my money is made. I can take $70,000 and turn that into $115,000 in less than 4 months. I'm not getting rich, but I do alright.
Right on cue. Here's the bragging about the money made and assets.

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy View Post
Did you honestly think I feel good when a family buys my house and signs their life away for 30 years? I feel like crap.
Your feeling like crap isn't a good basis for giving advice.

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy View Post
I don't mind if somebody calls me names. After 40 years of life I've learned to deal with it. Sometimes I think that what motivates me is those folks that tell me I can't succeed.
Nobody here said you can't succeed. No, they just called you an ass.
     
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Jul 20, 2007, 04:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy View Post
i would be thrilled to show somebody how to do what I do. I don't "look down" on people that owe money. hell, I owed money most of my life.
You certainly act like you are superior to those of us who:

> Use credit cards
> Own a home (through a mortgage)
> Are not self-employed.

If you truly think that those above choices are okay and all right and acceptable, you aren't acting like it. At all.

I just want other people to feel like I do.
You want other people to feel like you do? What if people don't want to feel like you do? What if people are leading fulfilling and happy lives in the decisions they have made about how to manage to use their finances? Or does that translate in your twisted world into them not "really" being happy and only being happy if they do what you do?

To not feel like a bitch to their employer or their mortgage company.
There you go again. Newsflash: You are a bitch to your buyers. Without buyers, you have no income. Not only that, but you are your landlord's bitch. Without a landlord willing to approve your lease agreement, you would not have a home. Please quit talking like this. It makes you sound like you fully believe you are superior simply because you are self-employed and pay rent.

Scroll back up. I never said I feel superior to people who owe money. I don't think I'm better than they are.
Again: the way you have responded and the way you talk does not at all show that you think I am equal to you because of the choices I have made. In fact, your responses show that you think you are better than me, and that you believe that people who have mortgages, credit cards, or employers are poor ignornant saps who "haven't figure it out yet".

I think you're better than you think you are.
Oh really? You don't know me. For all you know, I have dismembered bodies under my floorboards. For all you know, I raped someone when I was a teenager. Not only that, but just how do you think I view myself? You apparently believe I don't think highly of myself. Why is this? Because I have a credit card? Because I'm not self-employed? Is someone's self-worth defined by who they work for? Where the hell do you get off saying this to me?

Edit: PM me and I'll show you how to make money in real estate.
You are the last person on this entire forum I would ever take advice from. And this comment is just another statement that solidfies my view of you and the fact that you do look down on people who are different from you. "I'll show you how it's done"..."I don't take advice from [people like you]" (I don't have as much money as you, so I'm less than you, right?)..."Look me up when [you're just like me]" (I am not self-employed, so I'm less than you, right?)..."Once again, you can't win" (Is this a contest? Who defines how one "wins" at this thing that you have decided is a contest?)

If I can help one person to not work for the man my life will be worthwhile.
By your standards, your lifestyle is the only one worth living, so your life is already "worthwhile". And, again, little newsflash: you still work for "the man". You're still at the mercy of your buyers and the banks willing to give your buyers mortgages and loans. And at the end of the day, you're still paying taxes like the rest of us. I hope. If you're not...I don't even want to go down that path.

And what if I worked for a small business? What if I worked for a local business with five employees including me? Would that make me worthy in your eyes? Would that make you happy? Why the hell can't you accept that people who aren't like you can be just as happy as - or happier than - you? This is unbelievably frustrating. If you truly believed that others can lead fulfilling and happy lives without doing things your way, you would not continue to try to convince me that your way is the only right way.
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Jul 20, 2007, 04:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakarʒ View Post
Yeah, spliffy was being real mature and addressing her points.
Actually, He made some wise assessments there.

She essentially admitted she has no saving plan. She admitted to times when her use of credit exceeded her earnings in a month. She said she rents in an area where housing is VERY affordable. And she was extremely hypocritical in her posting.

I call the edge to spliffdaddy. Certainly not a smackdown, but a valiant effort and effective.

You just don't like spliff because he basically called you his bitch.
     
Eug
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Jul 20, 2007, 04:13 PM
 
No need to get frustrated, shifuimam. There are many with very self-centered and unrealistic views of the world, but that doesn't mean you should necessarily take too much of what they say to heart.


Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
Actually, He made some wise assessments there.

She essentially admitted she has no saving plan. She admitted to times when her use of credit exceeded her earnings in a month. She said she rents in an area where housing is VERY affordable. And she was extremely hypocritical in her posting.

I call the edge to spliffdaddy. Certainly not a smackdown, but a valiant effort and effective.

You just don't like spliff because he basically called you his bitch.
Since we're giving unsolicited judgements on the debate...

I'd say Spliff sounds either a little insecure, or else just obnoxious, spouting his own tunnel vision of the world. OTOH, shifuimam is getting far too worked up about it.

---

P.S. To change the direction a bit... I'm a firm believer in disability insurance, but others think I'm strange to spend thousands of bux a year on that.
( Last edited by Eug; Jul 20, 2007 at 04:19 PM. )
     
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Jul 20, 2007, 04:17 PM
 
Ah, the sweet sweet moment in an argument where reality and logic give way to ego and anger.

Its a beautiful thing.

(Here's a tip Spliff an Shif: Neither one of you is going to convince the other of anything. You cannot "win" a discussion.. particularly one thats gotten this retarded. Quit while you still have posting privileges.)
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shifuimam
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Jul 20, 2007, 04:19 PM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
Actually, He made some wise assessments there.

She essentially admitted she has no saving plan. She admitted to times when her use of credit exceeded her earnings in a month. She said she rents in an area where housing is VERY affordable. And she was extremely hypocritical in her posting.

I call the edge to spliffdaddy. Certainly not a smackdown, but a valiant effort and effective.
I never admitted to spending more than I make. Please show me that post, and if I missed a verb or a letter in there, I will correct it. I never spend more than I make in a month. Ever. My credit limit is actually less than my monthly income, and I never max out my credit card. I am saving at least $1000 a month, usually more, and it's currently going into a 3% interest savings account. I am currently looking at investment options with my bank (which also provides investing - it's USAA; it's not just a regular bank). I plan to be able to buy my own home in less than two years. I have no debt, including no car payments. I rent because I only recently graduated college (after attending full-time and therefore was unable to have a full-time job) and do not yet have the money saved to make a minimum 20% down payment on a home. The money I would lose in early termination fees on my lease would cancel out any money I'd save by moving to a cheaper apartment.

You just don't like spliff because he basically called you his bitch.
And yet I have repeatedly pointed out that Spliff is a bitch to his mortgage-approving banks, his home buyers, and his landlord of the property he rents. How is this any different or more noble than me being bitch to my employer and my landlord - and later my bank when I do buy a home?
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Dakarʒ
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Jul 20, 2007, 04:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
Actually, He made some wise assessments there.

She essentially admitted she has no saving plan. She admitted to times when her use of credit exceeded her earnings in a month. She said she rents in an area where housing is VERY affordable. And she was extremely hypocritical in her posting.

I call the edge to spliffdaddy. Certainly not a smackdown, but a valiant effort and effective.
So you're saying Spliff was being mature and taking her points head-on?
     
Dakarʒ
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Jul 20, 2007, 04:23 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
OTOH, shifuimam is getting far too worked up about it.
Definitely. And Spliff was throwing fuel on the fire by flat-out ignoring her attempts to make a point.
     
osiris
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Jul 20, 2007, 04:24 PM
 
Whatever... spliffdaddy lives in the gd woods. it doesn't really matter.
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shifuimam
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Jul 20, 2007, 04:24 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
OTOH, shifuimam is getting far too worked up about it.
I just get annoyed when people basically tell me I'm worthless or stupid because of choices I have made, when in fact my choices have thus far been very beneficial too me. Ignorance of anything frustrates me.

That and I haven't gotten into an internet flame war in like three years.

P.S. To change the direction a bit... I'm a firm believer in disability insurance, but others think I'm strange to spend thousands of bux a year on that.
I've thought about that. Where do you work - e.g. where personal injury is common or a very real risk? I sit at a desk all day, so I'm not too concerned at this point. Plus I have no family to support.

Originally Posted by invisibleX View Post
(Here's a tip Spliff an Shif: Neither one of you is going to convince the other of anything. You cannot "win" a discussion.. particularly one thats gotten this retarded. Quit while you still have posting privileges.)
Yeah...but then there's the "haha I win you conceded defeat" that will inevitably come from Spliff.

At which point I have to ask myself why I care if a faceless IP address on the Intarnets(tm) thinks poorly of me.

Snap.
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Eug
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Jul 20, 2007, 04:31 PM
 
BTW, I think it's perfectly fine to purchase more ON CREDIT than you make in a month, as long as you do so responsibly.

One example is moving into a new place, and needing furniture. You buy a nice bed and high end mattress, and that's $2000, plus some kitchen stuff and various other stuff, and that's $3000 right there. However, those are necessities that are one time purchases. The fact that you only make $2999.98 or whatever per month doesn't mean mean you've failed as a human being.

It's not good if you have carry the balance on your credit card, but if your credit history is good, often you can get a relatively low rate credit card (which I've seen as low as 1.9% for the introductory rate), or perhaps just get a line of credit. No biggie, if you are responsible in the way you spend money in the following months.
     
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Jul 20, 2007, 04:32 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
I just get annoyed when people basically tell me I'm worthless or stupid because of choices I have made, when in fact my choices have thus far been very beneficial too me. Ignorance of anything frustrates me.
He never called you names or told you that you were worthless. He actually said he loved you.

Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
I've thought about that. Where do you work - e.g. where personal injury is common or a very real risk? I sit at a desk all day, so I'm not too concerned at this point. Plus I have no family to support.
Huh? Why does it matter where you work? What if you became blind or paralyzed and couldn't do your work? Sounds like a good reason to have personal injury insurance to me. I essentially don't have any income other than investments and I have a injury insurance.
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
At which point I have to ask myself why I care if a faceless IP address on the Intarnets(tm) thinks poorly of me.
Yeah, saying that to yourself will make you fool yourself into believing there isn't a person behind that IP address.
     
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Jul 20, 2007, 04:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I'd say Spliff sounds either a little insecure, or else just obnoxious, spouting his own tunnel vision of the world. OTOH, shifuimam is getting far too worked up about it.
I'd vote obnoxious. But sometimes that's what it takes to get your point across. and her certainly wasn't calling her names or using profanity like she was.
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
P.S. To change the direction a bit... I'm a firm believer in disability insurance, but others think I'm strange to spend thousands of bux a year on that.
I am a firm believer in it as well.
     
Railroader
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Jul 20, 2007, 04:35 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dakarʒ View Post
So you're saying Spliff was being mature and taking her points head-on?
Dude, you have been having this habit of trying to put words into my mouth lately. How about you just use the words I say as a basis for what I say?
     
osiris
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Jul 20, 2007, 04:37 PM
 
C'mon Railroader, Spliffdaddy is pretty much a jerk to most of us. He deserves a little of it back now and then.
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shifuimam
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Jul 20, 2007, 04:39 PM
 
Originally Posted by Railroader View Post
He never called you names or told you that you were worthless. He actually said he loved you.
Yes, and hiding behind sarcasm and false statements is also not a good thing. Many of the other things said here would lead me to think that he very much looks down on me - and others here - for my financial choices.

Yeah, saying that to yourself will make you fool yourself into believing there isn't a person behind that IP address.
No, what I mean is that I put actual weight into the opinions of people I know personally and people who know me personally. I shouldn't - and usually don't - care what some random person on the internet thinks about me. Of course there's a person behind that IP address - but I don't care who it is. If it's someone I know IRL and they know I know them IRL, then they are just showing cowardice by hiding behind an anonymous name on the internet.
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Jul 20, 2007, 04:41 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
I never admitted to spending more than I make. Please show me that post, and if I missed a verb or a letter in there, I will correct it.
I am sorry, I misread one of your posts on page #2. Please forgive me.
     
Eug
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Jul 20, 2007, 04:42 PM
 
Originally Posted by shifuimam View Post
I've thought about that. Where do you work - e.g. where personal injury is common or a very real risk? I sit at a desk all day, so I'm not too concerned at this point. Plus I have no family to support.
You could be hit by a car. Or you could develop a brain tumour. Or you could be shot in your spine by a stray bullet. Yeah, I do low risk stuff too, but in a way that's good, because my disability insurance premiums aren't as high as if I worked on an oil rig or whatever. Plus the younger you start, the cheaper the insurance is.

To give a real world example. I once met a guy who was as crazy as a loon - He firmly believed that God was directing him to take his clothes off and walk naked in the winter... He had schizophrenia, which developed in his thirties. When his schizophrenia got worse, he was in the hospital... and all of his hospital charges were covered by his medical coverage and his disability insurance. When he was more sane, he lived in the community. He didn't work, but his expenses were covered by his disability insurance. He had no family to support either, but the key point was that his family didn't have to support him financially. Had he had no insurance, he would have been a serious financial drain on his family.

I often tell people that if you're uninsured, it's often better for your family if you die in an accident than if you live but are permanently seriously disabled. If you die, they lose your income and grieve for you, but they'll probably eventually find a way to move on, even if it means selling their house and stuff. If you live but are permanently seriously disabled, then you'll weigh them down like a boat anchor. You will have no source of income, but you will be a serious financial drain on the family.
     
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Jul 20, 2007, 04:43 PM
 
Originally Posted by osiris View Post
C'mon Railroader, Spliffdaddy is pretty much a jerk to most of us. He deserves a little of it back now and then.
No, he isn't.
     
 
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