[danbrew]

Originally posted by MaxPower2k3:
except Apple pays for the displays to be manufactured. once they're manufactured, the resources and time have already been used to make it. if apple doesn't like it, that's too bad for them, and if they send it back i don't think Samsung could get anything out of the defective displays that would warrant credit to Apple. so, if 1 out of 6 displays is defective, then the price of the other 5 displays would have to be raised 20% of the production cost Apple pays for each display to make up for the defective one that can't be sold. On the other hand, Apple could sell, as an option, 'perfect' displays that are guaranteed to be defect-free (and maybe have some kind of better warranty on them too) for a premium. this way, people who are anal about having no dead pixels can pay a bit more and get that, while people who don't care about a couple dead pixels can get a display that may or may not have dead pixels, and has the standard 5-or-less return policy.

I just can't stay silent after this comment... are you serious? Apple orders a bunch of displays. They are manufactured and shipped to Apple and arrive with defects. You think Apple is going to pay the bill?

I think not. I think Apple is going to say, "Sorry, you didn't build these to our spec. Do it again."

Kind of like what I'd do if I bought a PowerBook that had a defect.

God. I oughta be selling real estate or stock tips to all you guys who think that bad pixels are ok. I mean, really, do you accept that bad is good? Name any other product for which you would accept such a defect.

My only point here, other than beating my head against the wall, is that it's only OK if Apple thinks the community will accept it as OK. If I were an Apple Product Manager and I was reading this board (which, I'm sure some do), I would think it was just fine if I shipped a sub-par product. There's enough of a chance that people will say, "oh, ok" vs. "fix it."

Go figure.

[MaxPower2k3]

Originally posted by danbrew:
I just can't stay silent after this comment... are you serious? Apple orders a bunch of displays. They are manufactured and shipped to Apple and arrive with defects. You think Apple is going to pay the bill?

I think not. I think Apple is going to say, "Sorry, you didn't build these to our spec. Do it again."

yeah, and Samsung says "fine. your spec is perfect displays? then we charge you enough to make up for the defective displays we produce." it doesn't matter which end screens the displays, someone has to pay for the fact that they're just throwing away displays that are deemed defective. just because they don't use them doesn't mean that they didn't put the resources and effort into manufacturing them.

i never said that it was an 'okay' practice to accept these defects as normal, just that there's no way to sell perfect displays and maintain a reasonable price. like i said in an earlier reply (or at least i think i said it) the best thing would probably be for Apple to sell perfect displays at a premium price so the really anal people can buy a guaranteed defect-free display, and people who don't really care can pay the current price and no guarantee on the number of dead pixels (just as it is now). but to expect that Apple could get all perfect displays and maintain their current prices just seems unreasonable.

[ae86_16v]

Originally posted by Chemmy:
I massaged a dead pixel out of my iBook by gently rubbing it from the front of the screen whenever I saw it.

It took about 2 weeks of intermittant rubbing and then it was gone.

It was gone for about a year, came back, and disappeared in 30 seconds of massaging.

Long story short? Rub the stupid dead pixel until it goes away.

Yeah, I rubbed it for a while already. It is still there.

I guess I'll just keep trying. . .

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by brachiator:
Agreed. Or vice versa, offer a discount off the premium price for the lower-quality screens. I do have to say though that the "standard" 5-pixel return policy doesn't seem standard. I've only heard about it here. Taking the policy on the store website at face value, I'd interpret "defective" to mean any defect.

Hey, someone mentioned something about CompUSA having a 30-day any-reason return policy -- this is true? (I don't usually shop there.) WHo else has such a policy?

No, it's not "standard". Viewsonic allows for 10 pixels, Hitachi 7, and Samsung 6. BTW, last week where I work, Apple authorized for a 17" PB to have it's display replaced for 3 dead pixels... however, all 3 pixels were within 1 inch of each other clustered together. Now THAT would irritate me.

[phabfive]

Originally posted by danbrew:
I'd raise all sorts of hell about it. Consider this - if you bought a new car and it had a scratch on the windshield, or a ding on the door, the dealer would replace, right?

Believe me, Apple will replace this if you turn up the heat - or if you simply dispute with your credit card company. Apple counts on the sheep to say things like, "Oh, well, it's only one. I mean, come on, are you being unreasonable?" or "Where's your loyalty?" or some such rot.

Although this does point out why you should turn it on in the store and examine.

I agree. It should not be about luck. If it's dead from the getgo, it's a defect if it isn't stuck. Most displays are ok after a while until they get really old.

It is also preference. If I had a dead pixel, I'd be staring at it all day. If they didn't replace it, they'd have to replace their front window within a week or two.

[macfreshman]

The Dell's I've had have all been free of pixel problems, but the screens are crap. The viewing angle on Dell's compared to my 17" Powerbook is pathetic. Even looking straight-on my sister's Dell looks washed out...sad.

Anyways, here is a SOLUTION for those who care insanely about dead pixels: order or buy from a store with a good return policy (amazon.com or bestbuy) and use it!! If there are dead pixels just return it and buy another.

[Tarcat]

I have one on my cinema display. I don't notice it unless I look for it. One dead pixel isn't much of a problem and it isn't worth going to apple with.

[forcelite]

It seems that apple is has one of the highest standards. They are a Class 2, which is 5 dead pixels or less.

Read a PDF from NEC about their manufacturing

http://www.necmitsubishi.com/css/Tec...d_pixel_wp.pdf

[jsnyder]

Well, at first my 12" had _no_ dead pixels now I've got a flickering white one in the top right-hand corner.

Massaging isn't helping much, just seems to alternate between solid and flickering. Anyone else get flickering or just solid dead/stuck pixels?

[RevEvs]

just saw this on MacMerc - Has a scan of the internal Apple document on LCD dead pixel policy.

http://www.macmerc.com/news/archives/1016

[ae86_16v]

Originally posted by RevEvs:
just saw this on MacMerc - Has a scan of the internal Apple document on LCD dead pixel policy.

http://www.macmerc.com/news/archives/1016

damn it, beat me to it.

[mike one]

Originally posted by osxisfun:
>apple still is passing off old technology

Old?

Didn't the landscape / letter box 15" LCD show up in the powerbook first?

Old tech. sure.

holy crap, are you kidding, i don't give a crap about an extra 128 pixels in width, i want an overall pixel resolution to increase by 100's of 1000s of pixels, not 128x768=98,000.

apple 15.2 inch wide screen = 884,736 pixels
dell 15.4 inch 1600x1200 = 1,920,000 pixels.
holy fu&8in sheisse! 1 million more pixels!

yeah right, new technology. those extra 128 pixels are good to store your dock on the side of the screen and that is about it!

pixels = information. the more pixels you have the more information you can display. that is a fact. also the fact is the more pixels you have the sharper images can be, the more detail you can work on, the more windows you can have open, etc;.. people always whine about how small it will be, that is because most of them have never actually looked at one of these displays, haven't thought about how easy it is to resize text in apps, regardless of what app it is. or haven't had the need to have 2 apps open side by side, or two documents, or two data sets, etc, etc, ad infinitum, ad naseum. blah!

[ae86_16v]

What good is 1.9 million pixels if you could read it. Yeah you could resize the text, so everything will be the same size as it is now?

I do agree about the pictures being sharper though, but high resolutions like that isn't usable.

Edit: Okay, I just check out the top of the line Inspiron today running at 1600 x 1200. Gotta to admit that XP looks pretty good. Everything was crystal clear and such. But like I said earlier, the fonts are still kinda small but never the less very sharp.

So in terms of Powerbooks, I won't mind having it, but it definitely isn't a "must have" feature on the new ones.

[mike one]

Originally posted by ae86_16v:
Edit: Okay, I just check out the top of the line Inspiron today running at 1600 x 1200. Gotta to admit that XP looks pretty good. Everything was crystal clear and such. But like I said earlier, the fonts are still kinda small but never the less very sharp.

smaller fonts are harder to read, true true, but not if they are sharper... looking at 6-8-10 pt font on a 15" lcd imac isn't pretty, because the resolution is 1024x768..... all i'm saying is that the lcd technology in apple laptops is SUB-standard, no one can argue with that. PCs have a higher pixel density, thus macs are substandard.

higher res displays must cost more money, but apple laptops, with lower res displays cost more money than comparably equipped (hardware wise, people, hardware!) pc laptops.
this really is just sickening. LCDs are the most expensive and arguably most important component in a laptop. apple must be making an unbelievable amount of money on 'books, since they are skimping so hard on displays....

the premium i pay for apple hardware, i believe is worth it, but as time goes on and apple sits on their a$$ not upgrading technology that was available on the PC side at least 18-24 months ago, it makes me start to wonder why i keep paying that premium.... sure os x, os x...... sigh.