[ae86_16v]

According to this they did. . . People apparently at Computex saying that the DVD-R(W) is extinct.

http://www.pcwelt.de/news/hardware/34231/

Also here is a English friendly one. . . Post 9/27

http://www.doom9.org/

"Last but not least, the German magazine PC Welt has a report on the state of the DVD recordable industry, based on news and talks with drive and media manufacturers at the currently ongoing Computex fair in Taiwan. Here's their gist: DVD-R/W is not going to be around on the long run because the plus camp seems to be more convincing and has the edge on recording speed. In fact, while the DVD forum has yet to sign off 8x DVD-Rs, 8x DVD+R drives are already being sold, and not by any brand, but Plextor, king of CD burners. Furthermore, 12x DVD+R burners should be out by Q1 2004, followed by 16x DVD+R burners later in the same year. And while dual layer DVD recording is feasible, it might never enter the market because the technology is too expensive, and DVD successor technologies are not too far off. On a personal note, I have visited a media manufacturing plant 2 months ago and spoken to the product manager. He told me that in his business, people were rooting for the plus format as well, because it's cheaper to manufacture. Considering that plus media are still somewhat more expensive than their minus brethren, selling plus media is quite a lucrative business."

[icruise]

Hardly extinct, although the DVD+R people would certainly like you to think so.

[tooki]

DVD-R is not only more widespread, the finished discs are more compatible with DVD players than DVD+R.

Besides, pretty soon, all the DVD writers will support both kinds.

tooki

[Thilo Ettelt]

Originally posted by tooki:
DVD-R is not only more widespread, the finished discs are more compatible with DVD players than DVD+R.

Aside from that DVD-R is the only certified format for DVD Video yet.

I want multi-layer burners!


- Thilo

[Link]

The day multi layer burners come out is going to be followed (rather quickly) by the day my g4 gets one

Dun care if it's + or -.

[Eug]

Originally posted by Link:
The day multi layer burners come out is going to be followed (rather quickly) by the day my g4 gets one

Dun care if it's + or -.

Multi-layer discs are printed and glued together. No such burners on the horizon.

Personally, I don't think it really matters which to buy, esp. since - and + pretty much do the same thing. I got - myself for my PCs and I still tend to recommend it, since it's cheaper.

As for data, the plus for plus is Mt. Rainier (for Windows Longhorn types), but DVD-RAM is more robust and is supported now in both OS X and XP.

[OreoCookie]

Don't care as long as it works.
The G5 is able to burn +R(W)s with Toast ...

[Eug]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
Don't care as long as it works.
The G5 is able to burn +R(W)s with Toast ...

Really? I know some of them use the Sony +/- drives, but in the past the + part was just simply firmware'd out I thought. Some may also use the Pioneer +/- drives, I'm not sure.

[parsec_kadets]

Originally posted by ae86_16v:
According to this they did. . . People apparently at Computex saying that the DVD-R(W) is extinct.

http://www.pcwelt.de/news/hardware/34231/

Also here is a English friendly one. . . Post 9/27

http://www.doom9.org/

"Last but not least, the German magazine PC Welt has a report on the state of the DVD recordable industry, based on news and talks with drive and media manufacturers at the currently ongoing Computex fair in Taiwan. Here's their gist: DVD-R/W is not going to be around on the long run because the plus camp seems to be more convincing and has the edge on recording speed. In fact, while the DVD forum has yet to sign off 8x DVD-Rs, 8x DVD+R drives are already being sold, and not by any brand, but Plextor, king of CD burners. Furthermore, 12x DVD+R burners should be out by Q1 2004, followed by 16x DVD+R burners later in the same year. And while dual layer DVD recording is feasible, it might never enter the market because the technology is too expensive, and DVD successor technologies are not too far off. On a personal note, I have visited a media manufacturing plant 2 months ago and spoken to the product manager. He told me that in his business, people were rooting for the plus format as well, because it's cheaper to manufacture. Considering that plus media are still somewhat more expensive than their minus brethren, selling plus media is quite a lucrative business."

Can you say FUD? Just go to Best Buy some time and look at the cheap DVD players. Most of them will only list DVD-R support. Apple chose -R because it was supported by more devices and that's still the case. I've personally never seen a device that could only read DVD+R media, but I've seen plenty that can only read DVD-R.

[Eug]

Apple chose -R because it was supported by more devices and that's still the case.

Actually, Apple chose -R at the time because it was the ONLY one available that would work in DVD players. +R (or +RW) didn't exist at the time.

[olePigeon]

I want 16TB DVDs using Negative Index by Refraction.

[Powaqqatsi]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
I want 16TB DVDs using Negative Index by Refraction.

come again ?

[vvedge]

Why did +R make it this far?

-R (I call it 'dash - AR' not, 'minus-AR') was here first... it's more compatible...

Was it because somet bigass computer company (out of WAshington maybe), saw what cool thing's Apple was doing with their -Rs and used their powers (sorta like a board game) to crush the superior format for something that is cheaper and less reliable?

Just a theory?

[Eug]

Originally posted by vvedge:
Why did +R make it this far?

-R (I call it 'dash - AR' not, 'minus-AR') was here first... it's more compatible...

Was it because somet bigass computer company (out of WAshington maybe), saw what cool thing's Apple was doing with their -Rs and used their powers (sorta like a board game) to crush the superior format for something that is cheaper and less reliable?

Just a theory?

Arrggh. Not another one of these M$ is evil posts.

Msoft had nothing to do with the introduction of the + formats. It was introduced by companies like Philips and Ricoh. Indeed, right now the best format support by Windows is for DVD-RAM, which is a - format.

BTW, + is generally more expensive but equally reliable.

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
come again ?

Negative Index by Refraction, or metamaterials (aka left-handed materials). Previously though impossible in current physics but recently accomplished.

You can actually completely reverse the electromagnetic properties of particles. What this means is that you can shine a light (or laser) at a FLAT piece of this material and it'll come to a focus ON THE OTHER SIDE.

Trust me, this is absolutely amazing and is going to revolutionize everything from CDs, DVDs, contact & glasses, telescopes, mirrors, EVERYTHING.

Completely baffels me why it wasn't all over the news because it's absolutely incredible.

By using metamaterials you can focus a laser on a CD to the size of a couple molecules (depending on what type of laser they use.) That means you can increase the capacity of a CD or DVD by 100, 1000, even 10,000 times.

THAT is negative index by refraction.

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by Eug:
Msoft had nothing to do with the introduction of the + formats. It was introduced by companies like Philips and Ricoh. Indeed, right now the best format support by Windows is for DVD-RAM, which is a - format.

Yes they did, they're one of the biggest backers and are part of the + group.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
Yes they did, they're one of the biggest backers and are part of the + group.

Yes, they seem to prefer +, for Mt. Rainier. My guess is that they are disappointed that Panasonic didn't successfully market DVD-RAM better, because XP ALREADY has built-in support for DVD-RAM.

OTOH, MS has also said that they will officially support DVD-RAM, +RW, -RW in Longhorn, not just +RW.

[CIA]

Negative Index by Refraction, or metamaterials (aka left-handed materials). Previously though impossible in current physics but recently accomplished.

You can actually completely reverse the electromagnetic properties of particles. What this means is that you can shine a light (or laser) at a FLAT piece of this material and it'll come to a focus ON THE OTHER SIDE.

Trust me, this is absolutely amazing and is going to revolutionize everything from CDs, DVDs, contact & glasses, telescopes, mirrors, EVERYTHING.

Completely baffels me why it wasn't all over the news because it's absolutely incredible.

By using metamaterials you can focus a laser on a CD to the size of a couple molecules (depending on what type of laser they use.) That means you can increase the capacity of a CD or DVD by 100, 1000, even 10,000 times.

THAT is negative index by refraction.

Now THAT is interesting, where can one find out more on this? How close is this the Blu-Ray format that is on the horizon? Or is this in a whole new class?

[tooki]

So, one of my clients, who has a G4 Quicksilver with a Pioneer DVR-104 SuperDrive, bought a spindle of DVD+R media by mistake.

She'd been planning to buy a DVD writer for her older G4 anyway, so she was able to get a DVR-106 FireWire drive that burns both -R and +R media.

Today, when I went over to set it all up, I burned a DVD+R, which went without incident. The resulting disc read just fine in the DVR-106 drive, of course, and also just fine in the older G4's DVD-ROM drive.

But it won't even read on the Quicksilver's DVR-104 drive. The drive just makes a repetitive sound, of the sled going back and forth.

So much for compatibility. (It has been found, overall, that DVD+R discs have less read compatibility than DVD-R discs.)

tooki

[Powaqqatsi]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
Negative Index by Refraction, or metamaterials (aka left-handed materials). Previously though impossible in current physics but recently accomplished.

You can actually completely reverse the electromagnetic properties of particles. What this means is that you can shine a light (or laser) at a FLAT piece of this material and it'll come to a focus ON THE OTHER SIDE.

Trust me, this is absolutely amazing and is going to revolutionize everything from CDs, DVDs, contact & glasses, telescopes, mirrors, EVERYTHING.

Completely baffels me why it wasn't all over the news because it's absolutely incredible.

By using metamaterials you can focus a laser on a CD to the size of a couple molecules (depending on what type of laser they use.) That means you can increase the capacity of a CD or DVD by 100, 1000, even 10,000 times.

THAT is negative index by refraction.

Very interesting indeed, hope we get it fast. Looks promesing.

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
OTOH, MS has also said that they will officially support DVD-RAM, +RW, -RW in Longhorn, not just +RW.

Guess we can argue about that in 2005.

Oh yeah, the other property of metamaterials is that if you can have the light reflect at the exact opposite angle that it came in. This completely weird cuz when you shine light through something like water or glass, it just bends a little but continues going.

This would allow someone to create a "perfect lens" for telescopes. It would increase the current resolution on telescopes by a huge amount and get rid of reflectors completely. The cool thing is that they could stick one of these into Hubble since Hubble was designed to be upgradeable, including new lenses. If anyone's seen the new pictures from Hubble last year, just wait, they'll get even better!

[ae86_16v]

Yeah, the Hubble is incredible. . . except now we got nothing to service it up there. (They just upgraded it in 2000/2001 right?)

[timmerk]

Originally posted by Eug:
Multi-layer discs are printed and glued together. No such burners on the horizon.

You're wrong! Finally Phillips figured out how to make them!

http://www.dvdrw.com/press/duallayer.htm

[Eug]

Originally posted by timmerk:
You're wrong! Finally Phillips figured out how to make them!

http://www.dvdrw.com/press/duallayer.htm

Yeah, they announced that after I posted that. Anyways, it looks like they'll be a while before the drives appear and the media appears.

[bradoesch]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
Guess we can argue about that in 2005.

That's assuming Longhorn ships on schedule. Err, it's new schedule, hasn't it already been delayed?