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Clinically Insane
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Games Meister
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So, I had a cynical realization this morning: what if this isn't about privacy and is about not wanting to have to provide manpower/help every time one of their 70 million iPhones gets used in a crime?
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Clinically Insane
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I think they'd be able to bill them for it.
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Games Meister
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Originally Posted by subego
I think they'd be able to bill them for it.
I wonder if it'd come anywhere near fair market value. Or if it'd factor in the cost of having to manage such a division.
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If that division becomes more than 5 people, it becomes very hard to keep the backdoor software out of the wild, where it can roam in the dark web and be used by criminals.
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Clinically Insane
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
I wonder if it'd come anywhere near fair market value. Or if it'd factor in the cost of having to manage such a division.
My conjecture is they wouldn't make a profit off it, but could get enough to be in the break-even range.
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Games Meister
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Originally Posted by subego
My conjecture is they wouldn't make a profit off it, but could get enough to be in the break-even range.
That'd be fair though annoying.
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Clinically Insane
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Oh... I'm also not counting attorney fees from negotiating price with the Feds. Apple's out of luck with that.
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Games Meister
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Originally Posted by subego
Oh... I'm also not counting attorney fees from negotiating price with the Feds. Apple's out of luck with that.
As far as I concerned that's paying up front now so they don't have to do this forever. A good trade.
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Clinically Insane
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Those are different attorneys. I'm taking about the ones they pay to squeeze compensation out of the Feds if Apple needs to hack phones.
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Games Meister
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Originally Posted by subego
Those are different attorneys. I'm taking about the ones they pay to squeeze compensation out of the Feds if Apple needs to hack phones.
Just more fuel to the the situation would suck for Apple if they went with it.
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Clinically Insane
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Which is why I mentioned it.
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Administrator
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If the tool the Feds want is created, that genie is out of the bottle and there's no way to get it back in. Ever. Goodby to any privacy with an Apple device (court orders not withstanding). Cooperating with them on this could potentially destroy Apple. I'd say no too.
Let 'em have NSA take the phone apart and dig into it. Flash memory should survive a careful dissection, and then NSA can retrieve whatever is there without any major risks. It'll take them a while though, which would be good news for the user community. Of course NSA would likely say no, because while there may be a law enforcement benefit from whatever's in that phone, there's probably no national security benefit to be had. (My opinion, not based on any insider insight...)
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Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
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Originally Posted by ghporter
If the tool the Feds want is created, that genie is out of the bottle and there's no way to get it back in. Ever. Goodby to any privacy with an Apple device (court orders not withstanding). Cooperating with them on this could potentially destroy Apple. I'd say no too.
Let 'em have NSA take the phone apart and dig into it. Flash memory should survive a careful dissection, and then NSA can retrieve whatever is there without any major risks. It'll take them a while though, which would be good news for the user community. Of course NSA would likely say no, because while there may be a law enforcement benefit from whatever's in that phone, there's probably no national security benefit to be had. (My opinion, not based on any insider insight...)
Could be Apple has the ability already, but doesn't want anyone to know.
Here is an interesting thought. If the dead suspects had handlers, why didn't the log into "find my iPhone" and remotely wipe they phone when they had the chance?
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(
Last edited by Chongo; Feb 18, 2016 at 12:24 PM.
)
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Originally Posted by ghporter
Let 'em have NSA take the phone apart and dig into it. Flash memory should survive a careful dissection, and then NSA can retrieve whatever is there without any major risks. It'll take them a while though, which would be good news for the user community. Of course NSA would likely say no, because while there may be a law enforcement benefit from whatever's in that phone, there's probably no national security benefit to be had. (My opinion, not based on any insider insight...)
As I understand it the encryption on iPhone is whole disk type that is unlocked by your passcode so direct access to the flash memory wouldn't help as all the data is encrypted within the disk.
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So, they did not unlock the phones, but extracted the data while still locked.
It has not unlocked these iPhones — it has extracted data that was accessible while they were still locked. The process for doing this is laid out in its white paper for law enforcement. Here’s the language:
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45/47
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45/47
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Posting Junkie
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Originally Posted by Chongo
So, they did not unlock the phones, but extracted the data while still locked.
Right, they were able to get at some unencrypted data while the phone was still locked. Post-iOS 7 this method is not possible anymore.
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Mac Elite
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Originally Posted by The Final Dakar
So, I had a cynical realization this morning: what if this isn't about privacy and is about not wanting to have to provide manpower/help every time one of their 70 million iPhones gets used in a crime?
Verizon and AT&T are raking it in responding to law enforcement requests for phone records.
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Clinically Insane
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That's specifically what gave me the idea Apple could charge for it.
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Administrator
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If NSA can obtain the contents of the flash memory of that phone, they can dedicate as much of their resources as they want to breaking the encryption. One thing that's kept the FBI from doing more with the phone is the fear that it's set to self-wipe after 10 bad PIN entries, and wiped is pretty much final.
On Chongo's question: does an iPhone "say" it's been wiped by Find My iPhone, and if so, how? If it doesn't indicate that it's been wiped remotely, it's possible that the Feds have a useless piece of hardware on their hands...
And whether or not Apple does have the ability right now to crack iPhone encryption, I do not trust that ANY other entity can safely prevent such a tool from being disclosed.
To be honest, the only way I can think of for Apple to be able to "safely" (for the user community) comply with the FBI's demands is if they redesign the encryption system (probably from the ground up) and issue a patch BEFORE they crack the shooter's phone.
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Glenn -----OTR/L, MOT, Tx
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Originally Posted by ghporter
On Chongo's question: does an iPhone "say" it's been wiped by Find My iPhone, and if so, how? If it doesn't indicate that it's been wiped remotely, it's possible that the Feds have a useless piece of hardware on their hands....
It doesn't say if the phone has been erased, it gives the location and the option for lost mode and erase.
That wasn't my question. IF they had handlers, whoever it was could have been given access to find my iPhone and erased the phone. This may not be the case since this phone is a San Bernardino county phone, correct?.
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