[Leonard]

Ok. I'll have to try the Intervention or WA2000 next Prestige. I'm starting to get used to the Sniper rifle on some maps as long as there is no Sniper professional on the other team. I got a 7-5 and 6-4 on the weekend on a couple of matches - of course a couple of those kills were with the secondary weapon (a P2000 machine pistol). Of course I've also gotten some 4-7, 4-10 (negative) games with the Sniper rifle. Had one bad game on underpass that I can remember. I think everyone had sniper rifles that round.

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

Which rifle do you lean towards?

I like them all actually, but as Fatty and Dakar said the WA2000 does take a while to hoist. A silenced M21 in HC TDM is great fun.

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

Also, the thermal scopes can kiss my Irish calf muscle. Possibly the most unfair advantage this game provides.

Love a thermal on Highrise, either at the back of the spawns, near the chopper or near the gas tank.

Originally Posted by Leonard 

That reminds me, anyone almost kill a guy and then 4 or 5 seconds later get a reward for killing him. I think sometimes the second person who shoots the guy you almost killed, gets the +20 assist. Because sometimes, 4 or 5 seconds later I'll get a +100 or +250 for a kill. Almost like a lag delay or something, but there is no lag.

Last stand.

Originally Posted by sek929 

One of the more frustrating things about this game is seeing others kicking ass with specialty classes and not being able to duplicate their results.

Example: Thermal Scope

I know a guy that gets over 30 a match with a thermal on a 50. Once he gets that and his Akimbo G18s, he uses nothing else.

Originally Posted by sek929 

M21: I hate the damned thing. Only used it during my first ranking, and found it to be a 2-hit kill weapon no matter what. I've since fell in love with the 50 cal for these past two prestiges, but maybe my lust of titles and emblems will force me to use another rifle. The WA2000 is my second favorite sniper.

HC is your friend. You have neglected him.

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

I find it a surprisingly enjoyable experience. The time it takes to use the bolt serves to allow your rifle to recenter. The important thing to know is that if you're in a more vulnerable position while firing, you should either duck behind cover or go prone between shots.

The sound gets me, great sound from the Inter. I tried to do the quick scoping thing for a while. ACOG on the Inter. I had a bit of success, in fact its very satisfying when you get someone who is spamming you, but I'm not good enough with it to continue.

[The Final Dakar]

I read this on the IW forums and I loved it:

Originally Posted by Can someone define camping for me please??

Here is the difference:

I love to hold buildings. LOVE IT.

Say Derail. Middle building. I own it. I have the deed. I make the mortgage payments. It is mine. That building owns the map. Therefore I own the map. It too is mine.

You want it. You can come and pry it from my cold dead hands. But know that I control every entrance into that building. I will control how you will to attack my position. I control how you will maneuver to all the important positions on the map. I will control the angle and speed of that offensive maneuver. I will control how the sun's ellipse will create a shimmer of shine off your brain bucket you call a helmet. These are just a few things that I control in my world.

That is not camping. That is pawnage. And that is why we are talking more about strategy than camping.

Camping is a kid in a dark corner holding down one doorway getting 4-5 kills a game. He owns a doorway and not a very good looking doorway at that. I own a building. He owns a bad view of peeling wall paper and a leaky ceiling. I own a view of the beautiful world with the sun and stars. He sits and wonders when he will make his next kill. That kill may never come.

That's the difference. That's why camping is pathetic.

Lets talk Strategy.

[The Final Dakar]

Oh yeah, seems like the past week or two Derail has been consistently vetoed. I think people are finally tired of it.

[Leonard]

I think I met up with that building owner yesterday. Try as I might, with shotgun or thumper, I just couldn't get into that building. I should have tried an Sniper rifle with thermal, maybe.

[SpaceMonkey]

I don't really see how it's possible to play this game (successfully) without crossing over someone's perceived line of "camping." It's not Quake III.

Also, Dakar, I'm enjoying this silenced FAL immensely.

[mattyb]

I'm not convinced that holding the middle building in derail (or the house in Estate) is the best strategy. I played with some unknowns the other night and we stayed outside of the middle buidling and basically kept killing those inside. One of those 7500 - 3000 type games. Estate is the same. Keep them in the house and its easy kills.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by mattyb 

I'm not convinced that holding the middle building in derail (or the house in Estate) is the best strategy. I played with some unknowns the other night and we stayed outside of the middle buidling and basically kept killing those inside. One of those 7500 - 3000 type games. Estate is the same. Keep them in the house and its easy kills.

On what gametype? HC and standard don't have comparable strategies.

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

On what gametype? HC and standard don't have comparable strategies.

I'm tempted to say for both types on Derail. Now Skidrow and Invasion, I agree that you want to keep certain buildings, but the middle building in Derail has (IIRC) 8 windows and two entrances. There are too many places to get shot from : the walkways near the power station, the other warehouse (from three different windows), the wrecked trains, the frozen pond/lake etc etc. Too many people in there and they get in your way or a multi-kill with a nade. Granted people are hard to get from the air, but its too confined for me. The house on Estate is the same, too porous. Great to surround the enemy and keep them in one place though.

[The Final Dakar]

8 windows that only idiots would stand in front of. That leaves two entrances with either guards or claymores.

[Leonard]

I think it depends on the experience of the team. I've seen a guy with an RPG almost clear the main building on derail. But still, by luck I survived his attack. If somebody had thrown in another grenade from another direction, I probably would be dead.

In those buildings, if I move to the window to get a shot, I usually move away quickly as two or more people will usually shoot back. And I generally stay to the side of the window and not completely in front of it.

[The Final Dakar]

It's worth noting that I played a game of HC TDM on Scrapyard last night (accidentally). It was actually quite fun. Perhaps it was luck, but the speed of HC lends itself to making the level more controllable and less prone to spawn-****ing.

[Jawbone54]

If I can claymore both stairs just after the halfway-up corner turns (guys are much less likely to spot it mid-turn), then I feel relatively safe in the far right side of the office portion upstairs. I can usually only get about two kills before needing to move off and protect myself, but once they know I'm up there, they'll usually start trying to make their way in.

It depends on the opponents. If they play it intelligently, then I stay as far away from the middle building as possible.

[The Final Dakar]

I never go in the middle building. It's counter-intuitive to my sniping class. I don't know how, but on a sniping map like Derail, it's managed to devolve into a CQB map. Which is retarded. Definitely one of the worst designed maps in the game.

(Again last night, dumped into a Lobby late, Derail gets vetoed)

Edit: I wish we had Halo's heatmaps.

Edit 2: Speaking of which, you can give us our exclusive content anytime now, IW. It's only been over 3 months now.

[Jawbone54]

At this point, the only map that I groan about is Rust. I can deal with the others, even if they're not my favorites.

I've grown really fond of Skidrow, Underpass, Invasion, Afghan, and (to a limited extent) Karachi, because you each can be played in quite a few different ways. I hated all of those maps early on, especially Afghan.

Rundown, Terminal and Highrise were my early three favorites, but Highrise is starting to feel a little old.

[The Final Dakar]

Rust is stupid. Even 1 v 1 I could see situations where you spawn line-of-sight with you opponent.

I'm tired of Afghan. Mostly because if I can't get anything done in the bunker, all that's left is crossing large tracts of land where I'm vulnerable and having to worry about fighting uphill.

Highrise blows. Too much spawn-trapping/thermal sniping/lightweight commando/tubing. Nothing highlights all the flaws of the game better than Highrise.

[Jawbone54]

I'm starting to feel like Highrise's problem is that it's too symmetrical.

Once your teams starts spawning on the other side of the map, you use the exact same strategy: run across the left/right/middle until you hit an enemy head-on, with the exception of the one player on each team that likes to go below or try to make his way up to the roof.

[The Final Dakar]

It's problem is incredibly long sight lines. There's very little real cover.

[Jawbone54]

Good point.

My love affair with Rundown just keeps getting stronger, for some reason. My best two games ever have come on Rundown, and I can't really figure out why it fits better. I don't know that I've ever seen it vetoed, either.

[The Final Dakar]

In the early days it'd get vetoed. It took a decent amount of time to figure out how to play that map.

Not that it's an easy map to play. It's like a chaotic Invasion.

[Leonard]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

It's problem is incredibly long sight lines. There's very little real cover.

I find there's lots of cover, but that the map is so small, that you get runners who run the whole length of the map and shoot you from behind just after you reach the half-way mark.

It's a nice sniper map. If the other team isn't that smart, I can lay down in the open and snipe I've had enemies run right past me on that map without noticing me. They probably think I'm dead.

The cranes are often bad for hiding snipers too.

I guess you can see there's a lot of ways of playing that map.

[The Final Dakar]

What cover? Aside from the barrels at the elevator and a plywood box by the stairs at the center of the map, there's nothing really.

It's a nice sniper map precisely because of the long sight lines without cover.

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

I'm starting to feel like Highrise's problem is that it's too symmetrical.

Once your teams starts spawning on the other side of the map, you use the exact same strategy: run across the left/right/middle until you hit an enemy head-on, with the exception of the one player on each team that likes to go below or try to make his way up to the roof.

When I play with my clan, we like to try and keep the spawn. While the non-red office building spawn is the better one, we can still play a whole match with the team only spawning in one place. However, if a randomer get in and starts running about then all bets are off.

I actually like Highrise.

[Leonard]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

What cover?

There's a concrete bunker with a helicopter in the middle on the one side. A hydro transformer placement on the other. Two small buildings on the bunker side. The elevator building on the hydro transformer side. And like you say, a few barrels, boxes, transformer cages that stick out from the yellow wall, and fences. I've never really had to worry about cover, even before I started sniping on the map (which was this prestige).

The only problem I've ever seen with cover, is when a sniper gets to the top of one of the spawn buildings or out on a crane. He's got an unobstructed view of most of the map. Not much you can do about that, unless you get rid of those high points.

That and the problem I first brought up, where you have a runner class guy that sneaks up behind you.

[The Final Dakar]

Buildings aren't cover. Buildings are buildings. If you want to know what cover is, see: Terminal. That place is chock full of it. An outdoor version: Karachi. Plenty of cover.

[The Final Dakar]

So, interesting times last night. It's a shame those hicks didn't let us continue to slaughter them. Also, people who quit mid-game after staying in a lobby are retarded.

• Exciting times for my incidental Lightweight/Commando Sniper. I was a mild terror on that game on Rundown, equal parts sniping, PP2000ing and knifing.

• I have no idea how people get kills with UMP. Running SP, the gun is widely toted as a guaranteed 3 bullet kill and I kept losing head-up battles (with Rapid Fire as well!) last night like it was a pop-gun. Completely inexplicable.

• Classic Derail game last night. Activate UAV: 4 people clustered in the middle building, two making a mad dash for it. Too bad I didn't have my Danger Close class.

• I completely suck with the FAMAS now. Even with SP. Several times I popped people with 3+ bursts and couldn't put them down.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

• I have no idea how people get kills with UMP. Running SP, the gun is widely toted as a guaranteed 3 bullet kill and I kept losing head-up battles (with Rapid Fire as well!) last night like it was a pop-gun. Completely inexplicable.

The iron sights on the UMP are trrrrible. I've actually used the UMP a bit after prestiging (barely touched it before), and my effectiveness tripled after I unlocked the red dot sight.

• I completely suck with the FAMAS now. Even with SP. Several times I popped people with 3+ bursts and couldn't put them down.

Bah...temporary.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

The iron sights on the UMP are trrrrible. I've actually used the UMP a bit after prestiging (barely touched it before), and my effectiveness tripled after I unlocked the red dot sight.

I was getting hitmarkers. I just wasn't killing.

Here's some interesting info:


So a silenced UMP is more powerful than an unsilenced M4? Not last night.

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

Bah...temporary.

Yeah, probably just a bad connection night. I don't think you were around, but I always feel good about myself when I can hit the top of the leaderboard when I'm under level 20, which I did few times last night.

---

Oh, here's a pro-tip for you Prestigers: Use the pre-made classes even after you get your custom classes.

Example: I use the FAMAS, but to use my fresh custom class, I sacrifice having the GL until get 10 kills. Solution: Use the pre-made Grenadier class until you unlock the GL (Bonus: Pre 11 you get Scavenger too).

Second example L86. Pretty shitty without the grip. Solution: Use the pre-made class with bling until you unlock the grip (Bonus: Use it until you unlock the sight and Bling, too, if you want).

[JMan09]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

The iron sights on the UMP are trrrrible. I've actually used the UMP a bit after prestiging (barely touched it before), and my effectiveness tripled after I unlocked the red dot sight.

I agree, it was my first gun to use and I ended up unlocking almost everything for it. It definitely got better with different sights on it.

[The Final Dakar]

I forgot to mention, I had a prime example of how the thermal can be cheap last night. On Estate, a sniper was down by the power transformers. Now if you know this area, there's a lot of trees to worry about between you and the house. Thermal guy sees a hint of white in between some leaves and just fires off a shot. SP I imagine, and I drop.

[Jawbone54]

I'd complain even more about the thermal, but I definitely am going to try to take advantage of it once I unlock it.

Hopefully some guys at the Microsoft Windows forums are complaining a month from now about that cheap Jawbone sniper that was abusing the game.

[The Final Dakar]

I've been saying for two or three Prestiges I was going to try it. So, no promises, not with me doing two LMG Masteries and, for the moment, seeing if an SMG mastery is feasible.

[Jawbone54]

I'm telling you: unlock the RDS for the UMP and clean house. Give it an evening or so.

I guess the only problem is that it doesn't seem to match your playing style. It's more of a run-and-gun weapon, IMO, but who knows what you can do with it.

[The Final Dakar]

I used it once before, really ARs outclass it. I see people beat me out with it, but why can't be explained. In the end it seems like its just a few ms of lag.

Doesn't mean I won't force the issue and let myself get raped.

[Jawbone54]

I'm just doing my best to bring your K/D ratio down so I don't feel so amateurish the next time I check the rankings.

[Leonard]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

I'm telling you: unlock the RDS for the UMP and clean house. Give it an evening or so.

I guess the only problem is that it doesn't seem to match your playing style. It's more of a run-and-gun weapon, IMO, but who knows what you can do with it.

Yeah I never really cared for the UMP. It's definitely a midrange to close-up weapon for run-and-gunning, as you say.

I got everything unlocked for it eventually, except for the FMJ. If I had the time I probably could have got the FMJ. If you like akimbo, it's probably a good akimbo weapon. I never really cared for akimbo, though.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by Leonard 

Yeah I never really cared for the UMP. It's definitely a midrange to close-up weapon for run-and-gunning, as you say.

Yeah, and that doesn't seem to be a popular tactic amidst those of the 'NN.

I got everything unlocked for it eventually, except for the FMJ. If I had the time I probably could have got the FMJ. If you like akimbo, it's probably a good akimbo weapon. I never really cared for akimbo, though.

I freakin' hate akimbo. The grenade launcher is cheap, but it's kind of fun. The thermal scope is cheap, but I can see it being fun as well.

Akimbo 1887s are cheap enough that people using them should feel nothing but pure shame.

[Leonard]

Oh I'm having fun with the thermal scope on the Sniper Rifle tonight. I was up against a team of green and they acted like they didn't know what a sniper rifle was. They were standing on the sniper cliff and I was picking them off from the bunker. They just kept on coming to that cliff and standing there. I didn't even need the thermal. I ended up getting my 4, 7, and 8 killstreak reward and finishing the game with a 24-4. I've never gotten that with a Sniper rifle and a bunch of killstreaks. Got my collateral damage and black skull in that match, using the sniper rifle to get in the big bunker.

I don't care for the run and gun because you need to be a good knifer, and I don't care for where they put the knife melee action on the controller. I wish the knife melee was on a button. But then it is a pretty standard place to put the melee action.

[mattyb]

Leonard, try the Tactical button layout. I couldn't get used to it but some like it.

Dakar, I've also poured over those stats for weapons and I still don't get some of the info. The FAMAS and M16 fire 3 bullets each time, is the damage for 3 bullets fired or just one? For snipers I presume its just one, but how on earth do you measure the bullet damage for the full-auto weapons?

I know that I go on about HC, but these graphs turn out to be less interesting if you play HC. M21 does a OHK (one hit kill) on the upper torso in HC. M4 is a great gun in HC, iron sights with noob tube is one of my favourite HC weapons.

2nd most annoying aspect of HC after the ability to kill team-mates : Pistol and machine pistol Snipers. I've done it myself, but getting killed by the M9 from the cliff when in the little bunker in Afghan just takes the p1ss. M93 less so but still.

[mattyb]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Oh, here's a pro-tip for you Prestigers: Use the pre-made classes even after you get your custom classes.

Example: I use the FAMAS, but to use my fresh custom class, I sacrifice having the GL until get 10 kills. Solution: Use the pre-made Grenadier class until you unlock the GL (Bonus: Pre 11 you get Scavenger too).

Second example L86. Pretty shitty without the grip. Solution: Use the pre-made class with bling until you unlock the grip (Bonus: Use it until you unlock the sight and Bling, too, if you want).

This is good advice. The Barrett has cold blooded on it, so if you're up against a good team with lots of aircraft usage, being able to switch to the 50 can really limit your deaths.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

I'm just doing my best to bring your K/D ratio down so I don't feel so amateurish the next time I check the rankings.

Oh, you can get me to use the UMP, but apparently it's going to make me 3x the asshole as usual. I'd be prouder of the Katrina joke last night if I'd have worded it better.

Originally Posted by mattyb 

Dakar, I've also poured over those stats for weapons and I still don't get some of the info. The FAMAS and M16 fire 3 bullets each time, is the damage for 3 bullets fired or just one? For snipers I presume its just one, but how on earth do you measure the bullet damage for the full-auto weapons?

Ha, that is a good question. Here's a good one too: Why is when a FAMAS or M16 fires in slow-mo during the Game-Winning Killcam, you hear only two bullets exit?

To make things even better I've heard how a M16 with SP is a one-hit kill if you land all your shots.
Presumably, the damage number is for the complete burst. How it gets divided is beyond me.

On the full-auto weapons, damage is per bullet. On most guns it should take 3-4 bullets to kill (without SP). Seems like more sometimes, but that's usually inaccuracy thanks to recoil or lag. Which is why when you're host (or near it) you can clean-up 4 guys with a single SCAR mag.

Originally Posted by mattyb 

I know that I go on about HC, but these graphs turn out to be less interesting if you play HC. M21 does a OHK (one hit kill) on the upper torso in HC. M4 is a great gun in HC, iron sights with noob tube is one of my favourite HC weapons.

2nd most annoying aspect of HC after the ability to kill team-mates : Pistol and machine pistol Snipers. I've done it myself, but getting killed by the M9 from the cliff when in the little bunker in Afghan just takes the p1ss. M93 less so but still.

The constraints of how the game is designed.

I was thrown in an HC match last night (Hey IW, differentiate between HC and regular TDM on a players status, **** nuts), and since I had no silenced class, I went with the Riot Shield. Finished 5-2-8, and at least 2-3 of those deaths were because some dude would strafe me and thanks to lag and one needing one bullet, kill me because I was 'exposed'.

[The Final Dakar]

Alright, notes from last night:

• The UMP - Rapidfire makes it so that it fires off one or two bullets then kicks up hard. From anything further than CQ that usually means your third shot will be way off target.

• The UMP - I did manage a few double and triple kills with (most not in the MW sense of the term, but in that I killed several people without more than a second or two between each kill). Unfortunately this deadliness requires either the element of surprise and/or being very close.

• The UMP - I'm not even going to bother unless the other team isn't 4 bars and I am, after last night (i.e., East Coast host, preferably with West Coast opponents).

• The MG4 - Quietest LMG of them all? I wonder, since first and third-party sound is different. But compared to the AUG or an RPD this thing is whisper quiet. Hell, I'd say it's quieter than most ARs. Which makes the fact that the silencer on it is bugged all the more amusing.

• The MG4 - Least recoil of the LMGs. I dare say it might be usable sans grip. I know I called the M240 this, but it feels like the ACR of LMGs, right down to the weakest fire power.

• Tactical Insertion - I think I'll be able to finish off the Jack-in-the-box challenges without too much difficulty. Just one night with a handful of games on Scrapyard and Terminal netted 4 within 5-second kills.

[The Final Dakar]

Oh, I forgot to mention, according to 402s twiter, OMA is going to get a tweak, and a Pave Low fix is in the works.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

Oh, you can get me to use the UMP, but apparently it's going to make me 3x the asshole as usual. I'd be prouder of the Katrina joke last night if I'd have worded it better.

I still got a kick out of it.

My friends from New Orleans probably would've been mad enough to sign off over it. I've tested the waters with very mild Katrina jokes before, and out flooded a stream of expletives.
One sentence, two puns.

And I still maintain that the PSP analogy brought in at least an 8.5 on the geek scale. That's not to say that I didn't 100% understand the point you were making after you finished. Crystal clear.

I'm going to do my best to master the M4 and possibly the FAL this time around. I've been using the UMP and Barrett this prestige, but I keep falling back to the FAMAS and SCAR-H as a safety net, and I've got to stop. It's just so comfortable.

[The Final Dakar]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

I still got a kick out of it.

My friends from New Orleans probably would've been mad enough to sign off over it. I've tested the waters with very mild Katrina jokes before, and out flooded a stream of expletives.

It's been over five years. No need for a deluge of hate. Nothing is sacred, folks. Nothing.

Originally Posted by Jawbone54 

And I still maintain that the PSP analogy brought in at least an 8.5 on the geek scale. That's not to say that I didn't 100% understand the point you were making after you finished. Crystal clear.

Um, what PSP analogy?

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by The Final Dakar 

It's been over five years. No need for a deluge of hate. Nothing is sacred, folks. Nothing.

They still handle it better than Saints jokes.

Um, what PSP analogy?

Hmmmmmm...I might be confused over here.

[The Final Dakar]

To be fair, I don't even remember what joke I made that I criticized you for not liking.

But I can tell you there was no PSP analogy.

[Stogieman]

I recall some PS3 joke you made. I don't remember if it was funny or not.

[The Final Dakar]

I don't remember that, either.

I'm beginning to wonder if I was drunk.

[boy8cookie]

Speaking of drunk... anyone gonna be on tonight?