[fetopher]

I'm having a bit of a bad crash when I start up 10.2. The picture can be found here . The computer is my sister's. Its a B&W 450 G3. About a month ago we had a problem when we tried to install 10.1. Apparently the SCSI ccontroller card which controlled our two hard drives was toast. We took it to the local Apple reatailer and had it diagnosed, fixed, and then we put a new ATA HD in it. All totaling well over $400. Then Jag arrived in the mail and we installed it. After installation, we get the BootX screen with a very hard crash (see picure above). I reinstalled in 2 more times thinking it was just a bad install but still no luck. Sometimes the system will actually boot up all the way to the desktop, but then it is extremely unstable and usualy crashes in 5 minutes. Any ideas on what could be causing this? I could take it down to the store again, and be out another $400, but I'd rather just buy a new computer. My only thought was maybe a video card problem? Does this sound reasonable?


Thanks for any help.

[Targon]

What HD is 10.2 installed on? ATA or SCSI?

Is your Blue/White a revision 1 or 2 machine? If it is a revision 1 machine, i suspect putting in a new ATA drive will cause severe corruption because the ATA chip on the motherboards in those machines dont support "Ultra-ATA" mode and all ATA drives you buy now are Ultra ATA

Here is a page with info an pics on how to determine a Rev2 machine.

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G3-ZONE/y...wfeatures.html

If you have a revision 1 machine the suggestion may be for you to install 10.2 on the SCSI disk or buy an ATA PCI controller card and put your new ATA drive on that bypassing entirly the internal ATA connector.

[fetopher]

Alright I did some checking (thanks for the link) and it appears that indeed, this G3 is Rev1. I checked my HD and I cant tell if its Ultra ATA. It is new, so I am assuming its Ultra ATA. They took the SCSI card out so going back to that isnt an option. I am going to call the store and let them know *they* screwed up and need to replace it with a standard ATA drive. Actually, that will be slow wont it? I guess I should go back to SCSI.
Anyway.
Thanks so much for the help. I think you figrured it out!

[Targon]

Originally posted by fetopher:
Alright I did some checking (thanks for the link) and it appears that indeed, this G3 is Rev1. I checked my HD and I cant tell if its Ultra ATA. It is new, so I am assuming its Ultra ATA. They took the SCSI card out so going back to that isnt an option. I am going to call the store and let them know *they* screwed up and need to replace it with a standard ATA drive. Actually, that will be slow wont it? I guess I should go back to SCSI.
Anyway.
Thanks so much for the help. I think you figrured it out!

Without doubt this is the problem..major corruption. Again, without doubt if the hard drive is new it WILL be an Ultra ATA drive.

They did screw up yes and i think it would be very very difficult for them to replace the drive with the old ATA drives...they are almost non-existent now and yes it will be slower.

Your choices,

1)Put the SCSI card back in and use SCSI disks.

2) Buy an ATA/100 or ATA/133 PCI controller card. You can place the new ATA drive u have in the machine now and connect it to the card. This card will allow up to 4 devices since it will have 2 connectors. Depending on the SCSI card you have the ATA PCI card option may actually be faster than SCSI...

Links
http://www.sonnettech.com/product/tempo_ata133.html

If you are in a strong financial position it would probably be in your interest to sell the machine and buy a new one or a second hand older AGP G4. At least then those major problems will be out of your hair for good.

Regards

[Targon]

Sorry forgot to mention, what ever you decide to do with the ATA drive u WILL need to re-initialize the disk and zero all data. You would do this using "Drive Setup" after booting from a Mac OS 9x installer CD.

Once this is done you should be able to install 10.2 without issue.

[GnOm]

Originally posted by Targon:

http://www.sonnettech.com/product/tempo_ata133.html

don't buy a Sonnet just yet. Some of the cards are having the same trouble with Jag.
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/OSX/sonne..._and_10_2.html

It sucks, I'm having just the same trouble with a Sonnet Tempo ATA100.


bye.

[Targon]

Originally posted by GnOm:



don't buy a Sonnet just yet. Some of the cards are having the same trouble with Jag.
http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/OSX/sonne..._and_10_2.html

It sucks, I'm having just the same trouble with a Sonnet Tempo ATA100.


bye.

Well there you go don't buy this card then. There are alternatives.

http://www.acard.com/eng/product/adapter.html

http://www.siig.com/products/ide/index.html

I figure it would be wise to do a bit of research before buying a new card to find out which ones actually do work with Jag without issue.

[fetopher]

Well stink. I checked the upgrade ATA card they put in my machine and its a Sonnet Tempo Ultra ATA 100 PCI Host Adapter Card. This means our whole theory is wrong now doesnt it? Or, is it the mobo that cannot handle the Ultra ATA, regardless of what host card you put in there? If this isnt what is wrong, what is? Any other ideas?
Thanks

[JohnD]

Originally posted by fetopher:
Well stink. I checked the upgrade ATA card they put in my machine and its a Sonnet Tempo Ultra ATA 100 PCI Host Adapter Card. This means our whole theory is wrong now doesnt it? Or, is it the mobo that cannot handle the Ultra ATA, regardless of what host card you put in there? If this isnt what is wrong, what is? Any other ideas?
Thanks

I think there is a mode jumper on the drive and as I recall you have to set the drive to CS (cable select) instead of M (master).
I think I had the same problem under OS 9 a long time ago.

[GnOm]

Originally posted by fetopher:
I checked the upgrade ATA card they put in my machine and its a Sonnet Tempo Ultra ATA 100 PCI Host Adapter Card.

welcome to the club.



cheers.

[fetopher]

Once a part of this club, how does one get out of it? Or, is it a lifetime membership?
Who do we blame? Who can help? What are the fixes? The xlr8yourmac page just lists the problems, no solutions.
Thanks

[hardcat1970]

i had the same problem like your sister's having. I have a rev 1 b/w g3 with sonnet ata 100 pci card and 40GB maxtor diamond plus 7200 hard drive . My computer had hard time to start up after installing Jaguar, (once it did start up and it would work great though.) However when i chose to shut it down or restart the machine, it simply would not bootup. I ended up using the archive and option to reinstall Jaguar, still no luck, then i tried reformat, still no luck.

I decided to buy another new hard drive-Seagate 60GB 7200RPM Barracuda IV and it works great ever since then. So i don't know if its the maxtor drive having problem with the card.

[GnOm]

Originally posted by fetopher:
Once a part of this club, how does one get out of it? Or, is it a lifetime membership?
Who do we blame? Who can help? What are the fixes?

Right now there's no way out but I certainly hope it's not a lifetime membership. I blame Apple for it and i hope they have a fix ready because the bug is known and it used to work a few builds before the final.
In the meantime I leave the computer running (can't even put it to sleep because of another bug with the Radeon 7000 causing screen corruption after wake from sleep just like 10.1.5 did), a real f*ck*ng shame.


bye.

[GnOm]

Originally posted by hardcat1970:
I have a rev 1 b/w g3 with sonnet ata 100 pci card and 40GB maxtor diamond plus 7200 hard drive. I decided to buy another new hard drive-Seagate 60GB 7200RPM Barracuda IV and it works great ever since then.

hmm, maybe your up to something because I have a Maxtor too, just not the 7200rpm but the 5400. I think I'm going out and buy another one, would be really cool if that fixes the problem.


cheers.

[hardcat1970]

My maxtor drive has occasional double beeping startup problem when i had OSX 10.1.5 installed. So i think it has something to do with the maxtor drive but i'm not really sure.

Right now i relegated the drive for backup storage only and it works fine as long as you don't use it for booting.

[Targon]

Originally posted by fetopher:
Well stink. I checked the upgrade ATA card they put in my machine and its a Sonnet Tempo Ultra ATA 100 PCI Host Adapter Card. This means our whole theory is wrong now doesnt it? Or, is it the mobo that cannot handle the Ultra ATA, regardless of what host card you put in there? If this isnt what is wrong, what is? Any other ideas?
Thanks

I thought you said originally the machine had a SCSI controller card with 2 hard drives connected and the Apple repair guy diagnosed fixed it an put in a new ATA drive? This means you machine has now 3 drives is this correct?

Please tell me some more specific details. Open your machine up and tell me exactly how many drives are in the machine and exactly where and what each drive is connected to. Please mention any cards inside the machine (SCSI or ATA). I beginning to suspect you have mistaken an ATA controller card as the identity of a SCSI card. This is easy to do since the Mac OS reports ATA controller cards as SCSI cards. This is where the confusion may lay. but anywayz open the machine, look toward to the rear of the motherboard there should be a 40 pin plastic connector to the back of the PCI slots. This is the internal ATA connector. It is this connector that will cause severe corruption if an Ultra ATA disk is connected to.

However if you have an ATA controller card in a PCI slot and you only have drives connected to the connectors on this card then i think there is a different issue at hand here.

I look forward to hearing some more detail about the system. BTW go to the Apple System Profiler, select the second tab "Devices and volumes" and make a note of the model number of each of the drives and post that here for us too.

Thanks

[fetopher]

Thanks for the detailed inquiry. I epxplained the repair process wrong. See, there was a bad SCSI cable to start with and that is what was replaced (fixed). After the SCSI cable was replaced, they discovered the SCSI card was bad. Then they took that card out and replaced it with the Sonnet ATA 100 card and one 60 GB HD. So I no longer have my SCSI drives. I just have one ATA drive hooked up to the ATA 100 card.
Regarding the Apple System Profiler, I cant open it because the system will not get past the gray screen with the snow across it.

[hardcat1970]

Do you have a Sonnet PCI Card too? if you have, you should hold on to your hard drive buying because this morning i have experienced the boot up problem on my new seagate drive, a noise band appeared during the grey apple bootup sequence. Although a subsequent restart cured the problem, but when i logged on to Console, i did not see any error message. So i think it is the PCI card that causes all this bootup problem.

Originally posted by GnOm:



hmm, maybe your up to something because I have a Maxtor too, just not the 7200rpm but the 5400. I think I'm going out and buy another one, would be really cool if that fixes the problem.


cheers.

[JohnD]

Originally posted by hardcat1970:
Do you have a Sonnet PCI Card too? if you have, you should hold on to your hard drive buying because this morning i have experienced the boot up problem on my new seagate drive, a noise band appeared during the grey apple bootup sequence. Although a subsequent restart cured the problem, but when i logged on to Console, i did not see any error message. So i think it is the PCI card that causes all this bootup problem.

Did your hear about the bad installer disks causing problems like you have?
It looks like you can exchange the disks at an Apple Store.

[fetopher]

I kinda doubt the bad install disk idea because... Wel... Umm... A certain second install from the same disks has worked fine. Not to say that I didnt buy multiple copies of Jag for each computer.

[hardcat1970]

i'm sorry to say that it works fine on my powerbook too....