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baw · Sep 10, 2006, 08:08 PM

TheSpaz · Sep 10, 2006, 11:14 PM

If you hold down Command while dragging a file, it will move it even if it's from another server or from a different hard disk. Just a cool little tip for those of you wondering. And another thing... Windows doesn't have spring loaded folders like OS X so windows users are constantly opening a whole string of folders until they finally reach their destination and now the folder that they were originally had been looking in has become the folder they just navigated to... so they HAVE to paste the file rather than just dragging it. It's more of pain in windows if you ask me.

larrinski · Sep 11, 2006, 12:16 AM

If you want the cut in another fashion go into Terminal and mv... It will move the file to the new place you want it. We have quite a few ways to 'cut', just not the Windows way. It is far more convenient to just drag the file to the new location, than the Windows cut, and then search for the other location.

CharlesS · Sep 11, 2006, 05:54 AM

Originally Posted by Axel

Now that's something I don't get. What do questions of "menu item consistency" and "file metaphor" have to do with actual user experience ? Are there really lots of people caring that the "Cut" command doesn't actually erase the file before one decides to paste it ? Bottom line is : it gets the job done.
At the end of the day, computers are made to do actual stuff, not to stare at interface metaphors.

You've obviously never had to teach computers to a grandma. Interface inconsistencies tend to cause this scenario:

Her: "But why does it do that now? It doesn't do that usually."

Me: "Because this app is badly designed, and it behaves differently from most apps."

Her: "But why? Usually it works like this."

Me: "Most programs work that way. However, this particular program isn't following the rules. I'm sorry about that - it's badly designed. So in this app, it will do this instead."

Her: "But why?"

I learned a lot about interface design by teaching my grandma how to use a Mac. She was perfectly honest when something was confusing.

Originally Posted by analogika

Pretty sure it did.

It didn't. Command-drag to move was a new feature in OS X.

P · Sep 11, 2006, 06:15 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

It didn't. Command-drag to move was a new feature in OS X.

Command-drag to move existed in System 6, at least. The difference was that there was no feedback (like in the pointer) in earlier OSes when you dragged what was about to happen - don't remember when it was added, but I think it was before OS X.

CharlesS · Sep 11, 2006, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by P

Command-drag to move existed in System 6, at least. The difference was that there was no feedback (like in the pointer) in earlier OSes when you dragged what was about to happen - don't remember when it was added, but I think it was before OS X.

Okay, you wanna try it? Find an OS 9-bootable machine somewhere, hold down Command while dragging a file to an external disk, and watch it copy instead of move. If you don't have an OS 9-bootable machine, you can use SheepShaver, Basilisk II, or vMac to emulate an old Mac. Heck, if you have a Classic-capable machine, you can change the OS 9 Finder's file type to 'APPL' and run it in Classic. Any way you do it, you'll see that command-drag to move doesn't work.

P · Sep 11, 2006, 04:50 PM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Okay, you wanna try it? Find an OS 9-bootable machine somewhere, hold down Command while dragging a file to an external disk, and watch it copy instead of move. If you don't have an OS 9-bootable machine, you can use SheepShaver, Basilisk II, or vMac to emulate an old Mac. Heck, if you have a Classic-capable machine, you can change the OS 9 Finder's file type to 'APPL' and run it in Classic. Any way you do it, you'll see that command-drag to move doesn't work.

That last trick used to work, but it doesn't anymore. If I do that now, I just get a "The object "Finder" is used by Mac OS X and cannot be opened". vMac crashes on me (sad Mac) when trying to boot System 6. I'll have to get the iMac up and running in OS 9 to verify that. I'll get around to it though, because you sound very certain - I'm curious as to whether my memory is really failing me here.

CharlesS · Sep 11, 2006, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by P

That last trick used to work, but it doesn't anymore. If I do that now, I just get a "The object "Finder" is used by Mac OS X and cannot be opened". vMac crashes on me (sad Mac) when trying to boot System 6. I'll have to get the iMac up and running in OS 9 to verify that. I'll get around to it though, because you sound very certain - I'm curious as to whether my memory is really failing me here.

Huh, the classic Finder trick still works for me. Although I did use a copy of the Finder that I moved into the Utilities folder and renamed "Classic Finder".

If vMac isn't working for you, you could try Mini vMac. It's much more current than the regular vMac, and tends to be more compatible.

toeknee · Sep 12, 2006, 12:05 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

... Although I did use a copy of the Finder that I moved into the Utilities folder...

Now why would you make a copy of the Finder and then move it when you could have option-dragged it to the Utilities folder?

Thanks for the good info and discussion everyone. And seriously, if anyone knows of a CM app that does something like "make archive of this file/folder, copy it to directory to be determined next, and then delete the original file" I'd pay for it. If that can be done with Automator, it's too difficult for my brain.

CharlesS · 01:59 AM

Originally Posted by toeknee

Now why would you make a copy of the Finder and then move it when you could have option-dragged it to the Utilities folder?

How do you know I didn't? I never said that I made a copy and then moved it. I just said that I made a copy and moved it. The language allows me to have done the two simultaneously, which is what would have happened if I had used the Option key.

Actually, I don't know what I did either. I put that Finder copy there years ago. My memory is pretty damn good, but it's not that good, and all I know is that there's a Classic Finder in my Utilities folder, and that I made it a long time ago by copying the Finder and setting its file type to APPL.

(edit: this post has been retrofitted with Smileys™ for the overly serious)

toeknee · Sep 12, 2006, 01:26 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

How do you know I didn't? I never said that I made a copy and then moved it. I just said that I made a copy and moved it.

Sorry to get you all defensive. It was a joke. I hoped the winking smiley would give that away.

Kar98 · Sep 12, 2006, 01:46 AM

Originally Posted by tooki

Please, look up the past discussion of it. The reason is that the whole cut-and-paste metaphor breaks when it comes to files. When you cut a file in Windows, the file is not removed, which is what the cut command does on every other type of content.

Nope. Cut removes the cut content from a certain position, places it into the clipboard, and you can paste it elsewhere. Works that way in word processors, HTML editors, Photoshop, all browsers...Perfectly logical.

Apple is right.

Nope

CharlesS · Sep 12, 2006, 01:58 AM

Originally Posted by toeknee

Sorry to get you all defensive. It was a joke. I hoped the winking smiley would give that away.

I was kidding, too. I thought it was sufficiently obvious that it didn't need a smiley.

Since I was apparently mistaken, I'll add one.

Chuckit · 02:22 AM

Originally Posted by Kar98

Nope. Cut removes the cut content from a certain position, places it into the clipboard, and you can paste it elsewhere. Works that way in word processors, HTML editors, Photoshop, all browsers...Perfectly logical.

Exactly — but that is not what Cut does to files in Windows, which is why it isn't logical. The Cut command in Windows doesn't cut the file; it just marks it for being moved. That isn't a bad idea in and of itself, but it's not cutting.

toeknee · Sep 12, 2006, 04:34 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Exactly — but that is not what Cut does to files in Windows, which is why it isn't logical. The Cut command in Windows doesn't cut the file; it just marks it for being moved. That isn't a bad idea in and of itself, but it's not cutting.

It's part of the Microsoft dislogic. For example, if you "cut" a word in Word and then don't paste it right away, it is gone from the original location, but it is in memory and can be easily lost. If you cut the contents of a cell in Excel, the contents are left there until you either click a new cell and "paste" or go on to work on something else, such as typing into a different cell. In that latter case, the cut has turned into a "copy." The original is still there, and the it is also in memory to be pasted elsewhere.

I don't have a winders machine handy, but it would be interesting to know if you "cut" a file on the desktop in Windows and then don't paste it to move it anywhere, is it still in memory on the "clipboard?"