[Nivag]

Mopeds get rev'd the life out of them in London at the lights, they just ride the brakes.

As for motorcycles, I was taught to keep the revs around 3-4k rpm and feather the clutch to control the power for slow speed manoeuvres and starting. Motorcycles have more clutch plates that are designed to this, rather than a car that has 2 (i think) which will burn out if you did the same thing.
I does sound like it's too much compared car driving.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by PB2K 

hahaha yes they do, harley davidsons are such poor quality that they need to rev constantly or it will shut off

To be fair, many tune their bike down on purpose to make them sound "better" and they have to rev them to keep them running.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

I'm planning on buying a bike next year, and a Harley is near the top of my list, just to piss you off.

What others do you like?

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

What others do you like?

I'm doing some preliminary research, but I'm looking at mid-range cruisers, such as the Star 650, the Honda Shadow 750, etc. I want something that's got enough power to travel on the freeway, and yet be light enough to ride around town. Despite what some who just spout uninformed rhetoric say, Harleys have improved greatly in the past decade, although they are a little more expensive. At this point, nothing is ruled out, brand-wise.

[Uncle Skeleton]

I got a star 650 classic earlier this year. I love it. I would get a Harley too if I could afford it. But being in grad school right now, it's just not happening.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster 

When at a red light, why do motorcylists rev the **** out of their engines?

This does not include people on mopeds for some reason.

Yeah, this included my old 80s Yamaha. If I didn't rev my engine, every once in a while it would stall.

Originally Posted by smacintush 

To be fair, many tune their bike down on purpose to make them sound "better" and they have to rev them to keep them running.

This is another reason why motorcyclists have a negative image. Damn irritating. I used to live beside a Harley dealership too so I heard this quite a bit.

Get proper mufflers people.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

I'm doing some preliminary research, but I'm looking at mid-range cruisers, such as the Star 650, the Honda Shadow 750, etc. I want something that's got enough power to travel on the freeway, and yet be light enough to ride around town. Despite what some who just spout uninformed rhetoric say, Harleys have improved greatly in the past decade, although they are a little more expensive. At this point, nothing is ruled out, brand-wise.

I like the Honda Shadow Spirit in that size range. Going larger, that VTX1300C is sweet, were I to choose any of the the larger Japanese bikes that or the even the 1800F would be the one. Of course, were I to go that large I would go with the Victory Jackpot instead…were it not for the cost.

I don't "hate" Harley really. I just think that they are highly overrated. The quality, style ride etc. is okay, but not justified by the price. Especially, IMO, the style/design. They're okay but if I were to name my ten favorite production cruisers based on that alone, there wouldn't be a single Harley there. That, and the Harley elitism is really irritating.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Eug 

This is another reason why motorcyclists have a negative image. Damn irritating. I used to live beside a Harley dealership too so I heard this quite a bit.

Get proper mufflers people.

I would never do that on purpose, seems kinda "small penisy" to me. I WOULD however, put the pipes that I like on the bike and if it's loud and rumbly, too bad.

The guys roaring through town don't bug me in the slightest.

Besides, louder is safer…at least that what THEY say.

[sek929]

OK, well if bikes can have obnoxiously loud pipes then I shouldn't fail a car inspection for a little hole in my muffler, that's BS.

[phantomdragonz]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

I'm doing some preliminary research, but I'm looking at mid-range cruisers, such as the Star 650, the Honda Shadow 750, etc. I want something that's got enough power to travel on the freeway, and yet be light enough to ride around town.

My mom has a 2005 Honda Shadow 750, I have put more miles on it then she has and it's plenty powerful but I hate riding it... it gives me a back ache everytime. I prefer a sportier stance then a cruiser...
HOWEVER I got to ride a 2002 Suzuki SV650 last week and I was impressed! the sitting position is VERY comfortable and it has PLENTY of power, it's about 350lbs so a relatively light bike...

-Zach

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by sek929 

OK, well if bikes can have obnoxiously loud pipes then I shouldn't fail a car inspection for a little hole in my muffler, that's BS.

I agree 100%, but that's a regional thing I would think. Around here that wouldn't happen.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by phantomdragonz 

My mom has a 2005 Honda Shadow 750, I have put more miles on it then she has and it's plenty powerful but I hate riding it... it gives me a back ache everytime. I prefer a sportier stance then a cruiser...

I thought the seat was a little uncomfortable too but I didn't ride one for very long.

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by smacintush 

Besides, louder is safer…at least that what THEY say.

LOL...I always hear that!! I always respond to guys that have loud pipes and ask if this scenario is safe ' so the guy with his radio pumpin, bluetooth headset on, windows up and A/C on can hear a nice quiet Lexus?' I think not!! These guys can't hear a fire truck which is 10x louder than any loud bike. My bike has the nice quiet stock exhaust and im keeping it that way.

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by Eug 

*blah blah blah...*

Ah I knew you'd respond with the chop-n-quote technique. I wish you guys would knock it off already. When you break up a paragraph in to little snippets then respond to them as if they were independent thought structures, you invalidate the whole point of using paragraphs in the first place and your response looks goofy and jumbled.

At any rate, no, you cannot just hop on a bike and ride without training (even though that clearly wasn't what I meant I'll address it anyway). When you go to get a motorcycle endorsement at the DMV, unless you have a certificate of training by an approved MSF course, you are required to take a motorcycle driving test. That is the law.

But that's beside the point really. I wasn't making an comment about licensing, and that was pretty clear. I was being literal, as in, Joe Nevaroadamotorcycle will not be able to get on a motorcycle and drive it without any prior training. He will crash before he even makes it out of the dealer parking lot.

There is so much more to driving a motorcycle than a car. Cars practically drive themselves these days, whereas riding a motorcycle requires a high sense of alertness at all times (if you had truly ever owned and driven motorcycle you would know this point).

You probably have a preconceived opinion about two stereotypes of bikers which display attitudes you don't like (squids on crotch rockets and pirates on harelys) and have decided from the two that you just don't like anyone who rides a motorcycle.

You're perfectly entitled to your opinion in the matter, but at least be up front about it. Don't come up with some story about all the bikers you've ever been around in that one dealership you were in 20 years ago and try to use it as an honest justification for your feelings. Just say, "I don't like bikers because I don't understand them" and no one will refute you.

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by Atomic Rooster 

When at a red light, why do motorcylists rev the **** out of their engines?

This does not include people on mopeds for some reason.

KIds on sportbikes with shorts on are the ones who typically do that. They are just showing you how awesome their inline-four sounds at 14k rpm!

It's frowned upon in serious biker circles though. It's not good for your engine either, and kills your MPG.

[phantomdragonz]

[QUOTE=greenamp;3705822]KIds on sportbikes with shorts on are the ones who typically do that. They are just showing you how awesome their inline-four sounds at 14k rpm! /QUOTE]

the slang term for that type is a "squid" there is some debate as to where the term came from but... it pretty much means a novice rider who can go fast in straight lines, but cant turn worth crap...

-Zach

[KeyLimePi]

Originally Posted by stevesnj 

My bike has the nice quiet stock exhaust and im keeping it that way.

I'm with you. I've never bought into the 'Loud Pipes Save Lives' argument. I've had too many drivers look right at me and then pull out in front of me as if I wasn't there. There are some cool looking pipes out there I'd like to hang on my bike, but the noise trade-off isn't worth it.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by greenamp 

Ah I knew you'd respond with the chop-n-quote technique. I wish you guys would knock it off already. When you break up a paragraph in to little snippets then respond to them as if they were independent thought structures, you invalidate the whole point of using paragraphs in the first place and your response looks goofy and jumbled.

Ah I wondered if you'd respond without even bothering to properly include my quote. I wish you would knock it off already. When you just put "blah blah blah" as the quote, your response looks juvenile.

At any rate, no, you cannot just hop on a bike and ride without training (even though that clearly wasn't what I meant I'll address it anyway). When you go to get a motorcycle endorsement at the DMV, unless you have a certificate of training by an approved MSF course, you are required to take a motorcycle driving test. That is the law.

I don't live in the US. In Ontario, you just write a written test, and that gives you an M1 licence.

There is so much more to driving a motorcycle than a car. Cars practically drive themselves these days, whereas riding a motorcycle requires a high sense of alertness at all times (if you had truly ever owned and driven motorcycle you would know this point).

So you're accusing me of being a liar then?

Anyways, I know it's harder to drive a motorcycle than an average car. That doesn't change the fact that there are an awful lot of yahoos on motorcycles, and IMO the morons are overrepresented in the motorcycle crowd.

You probably have a preconceived opinion about two stereotypes of bikers which display attitudes you don't like (squids on crotch rockets and pirates on harelys) and have decided from the two that you just don't like anyone who rides a motorcycle.

You have already indicated to us that you either didn't read the posts here, or have concluded I am a liar... because I have owned a motorcycle myself and had a motorcycle licence, and have friends who own motorcycles too.

ie. I just don't like morons who ride motorcycles... and there are an awful lot of them.

You're perfectly entitled to your opinion in the matter, but at least be up front about it. Don't come up with some story about all the bikers you've ever been around in that one dealership you were in 20 years ago and try to use it as an honest justification for your feelings. Just say, "I don't like bikers because I don't understand them" and no one will refute you.

You're perfectly entitled to your opinion, but don't discount everyone else's just because you'd rather just hide your head in the sand. Motorcyclists have a bad reputation for a reason. There are many good riders, but the asses ruin their reputation.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

There are many good riders, but the asses ruin their reputation.

Incorrect. What ruins their reputation are people who stereotype, and make generalizations based on their own emotional reactions, and not necessarily on the truth.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

Incorrect. What ruins their reputation are people who stereotype, and make generalizations based on their own emotional reactions, and not necessarily on the truth.

While that may be the case to some extent, it's just bizarre that some people refuse to recognize that much of the bad reputation of motorcyclists is quite deserved.

Let me ask you, do you think that aftermarket loud mufflers are pleasant? Cuz many of us find them totally obnoxious. Do you think that motorcyclists who thread the needle between lanes are OK? Cuz many of us find them totally obnoxious.

Now it's completely true that there are total morons who drive cars too, and it's also true that car-driving morons outnumber moron motorcyclists, but I'm not talking absolute numbers here. I'm talking percentages. And in my experience, the percentage of morons on motorcycles is simply higher.

Think of it this way... To stereo type: Just about nobody who drives a Camry thinks a loud aftermarket muffler is a good thing. Shall we compare that to (some) Harley riders?

[KeyLimePi]

Sadly, I would agree that the percentage of jerks is higher on cycles than cars, but still it's hardly the majority of bikers. So it's still unfair to label an entire group because of what a relatively small percentage of idiots does.

I've been to a lot of Harley events and I can tell you that fewer than a quarter of the riders I see have put aftermarket pipes on their bikes. On the road, however, you just notice the aftermarket pipes more.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

While that may be the case to some extent, it's just bizarre that some people refuse to recognize that much of the bad reputation of motorcyclists is quite deserved.

Let me ask you, do you think that aftermarket loud mufflers are pleasant? Cuz many of us find them totally obnoxious. Do you think that motorcyclists who thread the needle between lanes are OK? Cuz many of us find them totally obnoxious.

Now it's completely true that there are total morons who drive cars too, and it's also true that car-driving morons outnumber moron motorcyclists, but I'm not talking absolute numbers here. I'm talking percentages. And in my experience, the percentage of morons on motorcycles is simply higher.

Think of it this way... To stereo type: Just about nobody who drives a Camry thinks a loud aftermarket muffler is a good thing. Shall we compare that to (some) Harley riders?

No, I don't think it's cool to be loud and obnoxious, but that's not the majority of Harley riders. In my observations, it's the guys riding so called "sport bikes" (not Harley riders), who do most of the lane threading, and speeding. I don't know how old you are, but I'm 61, and have well over a million and a half miles under my belt, including an extensive amount of freeway driving, and the Harley riders are by far not the problem that people make them out to be.

[Chongo]

When my brother in-law sold me his Honda CL350 (in '83) he warned me:

"It doesn't matter if you are wearing a 3 piece suit or colors, there are people out there who believe it is their god given duty to run you off the road."

I learned this one night as I was heading home from a friends house. It was about 0200 and there was almost zero traffic. As I was approaching an intersection, I could see a pick-up waiting to make a right turn. Whoever was driving had time to make the turn long before I got there, but waited until I was in the intersection and pulled out right in front of me. I managed to maneuver out of the way and not broadside the truck.

[OldManMac]

I had a CL450K like that, back in 1972, B. C. (before children).

[Eug]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

No, I don't think it's cool to be loud and obnoxious, but that's not the majority of Harley riders. In my observations, it's the guys riding so called "sport bikes" (not Harley riders), who do most of the lane threading, and speeding.

Around here, the sport bikers do most of the weaving, but the Harleys by far are the loudest. While they may not be the majority of Harley riders, they are definitely a large minority. And furthermore, even quiet Harleys are loud by comparison. The constant revving doesn't help either.

I don't know how old you are, but I'm 61, and have well over a million and a half miles under my belt, including an extensive amount of freeway driving, and the Harley riders are by far not the problem that people make them out to be.

I actually hadn't ridden that much before I got rid of the bike. The main reason is because I moved into a condo and didn't have separate parking for the bike, and I found I preferred riding my bicycle on warm days anyway.

However, the condo I moved into was next to a Harley dealership. Let's just say that I and my neighbours didn't enjoy the noise produced by some of the customers of that Harley dealership. BTW, right beside the Harley dealership was a Lamborghini/Ducati dealership, and down the street was a Toyota dealership. We didn't have any complaints about them.

Originally Posted by KeyLimePi 

Sadly, I would agree that the percentage of jerks is higher on cycles than cars, but still it's hardly the majority of bikers. So it's still unfair to label an entire group because of what a relatively small percentage of idiots does.

I've been to a lot of Harley events and I can tell you that fewer than a quarter of the riders I see have put aftermarket pipes on their bikes. On the road, however, you just notice the aftermarket pipes more.

Hmmm... That basically just proves my point. 25%!?!? That's a HUGE proportion. I was expecting more like 15% actually. What is it with cars? 0.2%?

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

However, the condo I moved into was next to a Harley dealership. Let's just say that I and my neighbours didn't enjoy the noise produced by some of the customers of that Harley dealership. BTW, right beside the Harley dealership was a Lamborghini/Ducati dealership, and down the street was a Toyota dealership. We didn't have any complaints about them.

So, if you move downwind of a pig farm, are you then going to complain about the stink? Or, as a homeowners' group did near here about ten years ago; moved into condos abutting a freeway, and complain about the noise? Methinks you have it a little backward; if you don't like the noise, don't move near it. It's really not hard to grasp.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

So, if you move downwind of a pig farm, are you then going to complain about the stink? Or, as a homeowners' group did near here about ten years ago; moved into condos abutting a freeway, and complain about the noise? Methinks you have it a little backward; if you don't like the noise, don't move near it. It's really not hard to grasp.

Nice redirect. So basically you're saying...

Pig farms don't stink. Don't stereotype pig farms like that because that's just wrong. But don't move near pig farms if you don't like stinky pig farms.

ie. Harley bikers aren't loud and obnoxious. Don't stereotype Harley types like that because that's just wrong. But don't move near a Harley dealership if you don't like loud and obnoxious bikers.

Do you not see the irony here? In other words, you're essentially agreeing the negative image for Harleys is deserved.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Nice redirect. So basically you're saying...

Pig farms don't stink. Don't stereotype pig farms like that because that's just wrong. But don't move near pig farms if you don't like stinky pig farms.

ie. Harley bikers aren't loud and obnoxious. Don't stereotype Harley types like that because that's just wrong. But don't move near a Harley dealership if you don't like loud and obnoxious bikers.

Do you not see the irony here? In other words, you're essentially agreeing the negative image for Harleys is deserved.

Don't put words in my mouth. Unless you lived in a cave until you moved next to the Harley dealer, you'd know they're loud, yet you chose to move there anyway, and then complain about it. You're the one who's trying to redirect. I'm probably going to move next year, and one of the things I dislike is train noise, so you can bet I'll not be moving anywhere close to train tracks. Are you always this obtuse, or do you have to work at it?

[Eug]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

Don't put words in my mouth. Unless you lived in a cave until you moved next to the Harley dealer, you'd know they're loud, yet you chose to move there anyway, and then complain about it.

Hmmm...

Originally Posted by OldManMac

What ruins their reputation are people who stereotype, and make generalizations based on their own emotional reactions, and not necessarily on the truth.

So which is it then? Are they loud and bothersome, or is that just a stereotype and a myth?

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Hmmm...

So which is it then? Are they loud and bothersome, or is that just a stereotype and a myth?

You really do miss the point, don't you? Of course they can be loud and bothersome, but most of them aren't, which was one of the original questions asked in this thread. IOW, it's a tiny minority, and I'm not the one who moved next to a Harley dealer, and then complained about the noise.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by OldManMac 

You really do miss the point, don't you? Of course they can be loud and bothersome, but most of them aren't, which was one of the original questions asked in this thread. IOW, it's a tiny minority, and I'm not the one who moved next to a Harley dealer, and then complained about the noise.

So now you're trying to suggest that only people who live beside Harley dealerships have a negative view of Harley bikes. Yeah, I guess that must be true, since Harley bikes go nowhere except within a one block radius of Harley dealerships.

Here's a hint. When it gets warm and sunny around here, sometimes herds of Harley riders go downtown and cruise the streets. The obey the traffic laws for the most part, but many people still hate them, because they're so irritatingly loud.

If you would take your blinders off, you might just understand why this thread even exists. Motorcyclists have a negative image for a reason. While the asses may represent the minority of motorcyclists, they are most definitely far overrepresented percentage-wise compared to the average motorized vehicle crowd. Hell, even a guy in this very thread who attends Harley functions states that a good QUARTER of the people there get aftermarket mufflers. That a huge percentage.

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by Eug 

So now you're trying to suggest that only people who live beside Harley dealerships have a negative view of Harley bikes. Yeah, I guess that must be true, since Harley bikes go nowhere except within a one block radius of Harley dealerships.

Here's a hint. When it gets warm and sunny around here, sometimes herds of Harley riders go downtown and cruise the streets. The obey the traffic laws for the most part, but many people still hate them, because they're so irritatingly loud.

If you would take your blinders off, you might just understand why this thread even exists. Motorcyclists have a negative image for a reason. While the asses may represent the minority of motorcyclists, they are most definitely far overrepresented percentage-wise compared to the average motorized vehicle crowd. Hell, even a guy in this very thread who attends Harley functions states that a good QUARTER of the people there get aftermarket mufflers. That a huge percentage.

Good grief, man. Please develop some reading comprehension skills, and stop telling me what I'm supposedly saying.