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You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Political/War Lounge > Let's go to war with Russia

Let's go to war with Russia
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turtle777
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Oct 15, 2016, 02:43 PM
 
I'm shocked how anti-Russian rhetoric has almost reached a fever pitch in the media and the White House. And in regards to independent media government propaganda channels, that's happening world wide, not only in the US.

Clinton's remarks in the second presidential debate left no doubt: if she becomes president, there will be some type of armed conflict with Russia.
"No-fly-zone" in Syria means almost guaranteed war with Russia.

As crazy as Trump is, this election is becoming a single voter issue for me: Trump, or war.

Too much smoke for there to be no fire.

Nuclear war 'IMMINENT' as Russia tells citizens to find out where the closest bunkers are
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...ashar-al-Assad

Obama Tells CIA To Prepare For Cyber War With Russia
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-1...llary-campaign


We are so f$&@ed.

-t
     
reader50
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Oct 15, 2016, 04:07 PM
 
Vote 3rd party. I will be. Both major candidates are bad choices.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Oct 15, 2016, 04:35 PM
 
So your preference is for the guy who will either launch nukes with reckless abandon or more likely crawl and beg like a whist Vladimir Putin? I thought you conservative/libertarian types were all about taking tough stances on the international stage.

I don't know why you would be shocked about the annoyance with Russia right now. They are siding with a tyrant who fires chemical weapons at his own people and are firing airstrikes at schools, hospitals and aid convoys. Thats whats shocking.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
turtle777  (op)
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Oct 15, 2016, 06:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I thought you conservative/libertarian types were all about taking tough stances on the international stage.
.
See, this is what makes discussing politics with you unbearable.

You don't even have the slightest clue about a lot of things.

Libertarian position on war is the EXACT opposite of conservatives.
On top, both Republicans and Democrats are run by Neocons these days, and display the same Nation-building tendencies.

Third, I know European newspapers like to paint a picture of Trump as being a trigger-happy cowboy. This is pure propaganda.
Trump is an isolationist, who in essence would like nothing more than to stop overseas wars and pull our troops home.

This is about the only great reason to vote for Trump.
But clearly, none of the media would like to give the general clueless public a reason to vote for Trump.

-t
     
subego
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Oct 15, 2016, 06:38 PM
 
Originally Posted by Waragainstsleep View Post
I thought you conservative/libertarian types were all about taking tough stances on the international stage.
Huh?

Libertarians are non-interventionist to the point of being farcical.
     
Captain Obvious
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Oct 15, 2016, 08:40 PM
 
I often have the inclination to ask, "How stupid are people?"
Then you guys make threads like this and answer it for me.

Russia and more specifically Putin is the cause for increased tension between them and the West.
The line they crossed in moving against Georgia in 08 and daring NATO to do something was the first salvo in a series of events that brought us where we are now. Putin has been on a personal crusade to reestablish Russia's sphere of influence from its USSR glory after a quarter century of decline and increasing irrelevance. You see it in their moves in dealing with Ukraine, Syria, Iran, and the Arctic.
Part of that agenda was involved reigniting the rivalry with the United States. It stokes the impression back in Russia that by poking at the biggest superpower and having us back down (like we did in Crimea) that they were back on the upswing on the global stage. Their latest maneuver in a long series against the US is the outsourced cyber attacks on the DNC which provided them with both plausible deniability and blatantly antagonize the White House.

Both Bush and Obama did too much kowtowing at the onset and we are just now starting to draw an equally aggressive stance after playing the role of punching bag. Trump would sure as shit not be a step forward in keeping Russia in check. To begin with he has a strange man crush on Putin and much like his fathers in law appears to like sucking on communist dick for brownie points. That sort of relationship between the two counties leaders would only encourage further Russian aggression down the line which needs to be halted before they get a foothold around the North Pole and become a permanent strategic danger to us and Europe.

Barack Obama: Four more years of the Carter Presidency
     
turtle777  (op)
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Oct 15, 2016, 10:33 PM
 
I'm shocked. I didn't peg you as a frustrated neocon.

-t
     
Waragainstsleep
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Oct 16, 2016, 12:35 AM
 
Originally Posted by turtle777 View Post
See, this is what makes discussing politics with you unbearable.

You don't even have the slightest clue about a lot of things.

Libertarian position on war is the EXACT opposite of conservatives.
On top, both Republicans and Democrats are run by Neocons these days, and display the same Nation-building tendencies.

Third, I know European newspapers like to paint a picture of Trump as being a trigger-happy cowboy. This is pure propaganda.
Trump is an isolationist, who in essence would like nothing more than to stop overseas wars and pull our troops home.

This is about the only great reason to vote for Trump.
But clearly, none of the media would like to give the general clueless public a reason to vote for Trump.

-t
In my defence, libertarians are tricky. On paper they occupy a middle ground taking certain things from each side. Small government, low tax & regulation, free market and guns from the right, civil & individual liberties and rights, more from the left.

The thing is when you talk to them on the internet, they almost always sound like Republicans. In fact they often sound like Republicans that are just a little bit too ashamed to admit they are Republicans for whatever reason. Its a bit like the way some people think bisexuals are just kidding themselves and don't want to admit they are gay. I wonder if sometimes they are Republicans who have learned they get less grief on the internet if they say they are libertarians.

So sometimes it becomes easy to forget what stance a libertarian would take in which case I tend to assume its whatever a Republican would do.

Both parties are run by nation builders as much because thats what the people want as because they are neocons. A good war is usually what it takes to get a second term for a Republican and the Dems are either dealing with a Republican mess or trying to secure the oil they need to feed America's habit.

While Trump in a one on one situation would almost certainly cry and soil himself before offering his attacker whatever they wanted to let him live, its much easier to be a fake tough guy when you have a hundred thousand(?) real tough guys (and girls) with guns, tanks, bombs and planes to hide behind. But of course he's already been sucking up to Putin. Hardly fighting words or the tough stance required. I think even the hardcore conservatives who still believe Trump really is a tough guy probably believe that Hillary would be as least as tough in war. Not that they'd admit it.

I'm not sure I'd call it a great reason to vote for Trump even if you're right. But it would be the only reason.
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
subego
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Oct 16, 2016, 11:00 AM
 
The thing is, based on the "small government" philosophy, Republicans should be more like Libertarians. Republicans shouldn't be having problems with civil liberties.

I know this pisses people off, but maximal civil liberties isn't a "leftist" idea. The through-line for leftism throughout history is government intervention.

American leftists have adopted right wing values when it comes to civil liberties, unless they're coming out of the barrel of a gun... for that they take the standard issue leftist tack we all know and love.
     
Waragainstsleep
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Oct 16, 2016, 11:19 AM
 
They've needed government intervention because of the Republicans!

I suspect ultimately that Republicans will become libertarians. Perhaps after this election they will be forced to dump the hate and the crazy and the religion (if I didn't adequately cover that already). That basically leaves them as libertarians right?
I have plenty of more important things to do, if only I could bring myself to do them....
     
The Final Dakar
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Oct 17, 2016, 01:36 AM
 
This thread died too quickly.
     
   
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