[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by placebo1969:
But they played "extremely loud rap music."

So the act of putting lit cigarettes in prisoners' ears is actually an act of mercy?

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
France doesn't have terrorists running airplanes into their buildings. Perhaps you should take a second look at U.S.' foreign policy instead of ridiculing France's.

What does that have to do with it?

How does that legitimize the actions of France?

100% silly.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
France doesn't have terrorists running airplanes into their buildings. Perhaps you should take a second look at U.S.' foreign policy instead of ridiculing France's.

Tell it to the Ivory Coast.

[Troll]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Tell it to the Ivory Coast.

There is nothing even vaguely similar between the Ivory Coast incident and what's going on in American prisons all over the world. 1 Ivorian policeman and 2 members of the public dying during a riot is not nearly the same thing as torturing detainees in prison. Besides which, if France is so irrelevant why do always test your behaviour against theirs? Get the log out of your own eye.

[rambo47]

Red is Positive.
Black is Negative.

[Shaddim]

Originally posted by Troll:
There is nothing even vaguely similar between the Ivory Coast incident and what's going on in American prisons all over the world. 1 Ivorian policeman and 2 members of the public dying during a riot is not nearly the same thing as torturing detainees in prison. Besides which, if France is so irrelevant why do always test your behaviour against theirs? Get the log out of your own eye.

Yeah, you're right... the guys in Gitmo are still alive, unlike the people that France slaughtered at a peaceful protest.

[dcolton]

Originally posted by MacNStein:
Yeah, you're right... the guys in Gitmo are still alive, unlike the people that France slaughtered at a peaceful protest.

And what was that story about prisoners released from gitmo who were promptly arrested and imprisoned in France without a trial or committing a crime?

France is good at stealing money from starving Iraqi's and blaming the US. I also like the way that they are now trying to blame the US for UN sanctions after the 1st gulf war. These are opportunistic people whose ties with the terrorist world is quite suspect.

[deedar]

Originally posted by Zimphire:

I am not talking just about this war. ANY WAR.

Well good. Lets hope people take it within context, and compare the two.

Right now leftists drama queens aren't doing that. [/B]

Have you actually ever read one of your own posts?

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by dcolton:
And what was that story about prisoners released from gitmo who were promptly arrested and imprisoned in France without a trial or committing a crime?

I fully realize that you're just deflecting (since this thread has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with France), but I'm intrigued:

What exactly WAS "that story about prisoners released from gitmo who were promptly arrested and imprisoned in France without a trial or committing a crime"?

I'd appreciate a pointer.

[Krusty]

Originally posted by spacefreak:
I don't know if they're authentic. Can you prove that they are? You introduced them here, so the burden of proof is on you.

BTW: Who are the FBI agents you speak of? Do they have names? Who is the supposed person who sent these aged and weather-beaten emails?

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
I can't blame anybody for being skeptical of yet another leaked 'FBI memo'.

Did you guys ever read up on this issue at all and find out the the information was not "leaked" but demanded in court under the Freedom of Information Act. After nearly a year of foot-dragging, a Federal judge finally ORDERED the documents released on 10/15 of this year. In other words, they come straight from the federal government itself. This story was prompted by the latest batch which got cleared for release on 12/15. There were about 6000 docs released by early Nov, about 9000 now .... and apparently upwards of 100,000 more yet to be cleared, censored, and released.

If anything, these docs and emails show a couple of things:
1) The "few bad apples" line after Abu Ghraib was an utter farce. "Enhanced Interrogation" has been well known in several arms of our gov't and has been widespread in Gitmo, Afghanistan, and Iraq from the very beginning.
2) There is a little debate over a couple of docs referring to a "Presidential Executive Order" ... its unclear whether that means Bush directly signed off on it or if it was Rumsfeld as proxy. Wolfowitz gets some mention too. Doesn't matter too much really, the underlying implication is the same: It IS the overt policy at the highest level of our government and has been for a couple of years. Rumsfeld was lying in May when questioned by McCain on the topic.

With the slow release of these docs which may take months or years, we will doubtless see several repeats of "the process" that we saw after Abu Ghraib and with the current revelations. It goes something like this:
"Oh my!!! well ... that's unacceptable ... what a shocker. I can assure you that this is an isolated incident that will be investigated fully. No, we didn't know anything about this until just recently and were preparing to launch our own internal investigation just as the story broke. Seriously"

The Sean Baker Story (later confirmed as true by the Army), should leave little doubt that this has been our policy since at least 2002 when his incident occurred . They only stopped beating him after someone noticed he was wearing some army issued gear (after he'd told them repeatedly he was a US soldier between being choked and having his head smashed repeatedly into a concrete floor).