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willed · May 16, 2006, 09:09 AM

http://www.apple.com/macbook/macbook.html

Thought this would have been posted already.

It looks great except for... integrated graphics.

Dakar · May 16, 2006, 09:28 AM

In black none-the-less. Awesome.

forkies · May 16, 2006, 09:32 AM

now i begin saving ¥

Dakar · May 16, 2006, 09:33 AM

Ha, the black version is only available top-end. Smart move, Apple. There's enough idiots out there who will upgrade just to get the color they want.

JoshuaZ · May 16, 2006, 09:34 AM

Well theres something interesting...

I do like everything about it except the integrated graphics. But it should be fine for most everyone.

rickey939 · May 16, 2006, 09:45 AM

Impressive.

willed · May 16, 2006, 09:48 AM

Has been pointed out elsewhere that there is a $150 premium just for getting the black one. The only difference between that and the mid-range white one hardware-wise is a 20GB bigger HD, which costs $50 to upgrade to from teh white one... and yet the black one costs $200 more.
Cynical.

Dakar · May 16, 2006, 09:52 AM

They need to hurry up and update the iBook forum to include MacBooks.

mdc · May 16, 2006, 09:52 AM

There's a 2 page (so far) thread about this over in the iBook forum.

besson3c · May 16, 2006, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by willed

Has been pointed out elsewhere that there is a $150 premium just for getting the black one. The only difference between that and the mid-range white one hardware-wise is a 20GB bigger HD, which costs $50 to upgrade to from teh white one... and yet the black one costs $200 more.
Cynical.

Yeah, I noticed that too. I'd like to think that the black model won't sell very well for this reason.

It looks like the main distinction between MacBook and MacBook Pro is no longer processor speed, but in screen size. We're almost at the point where it would make sense to perfect one design and use it across the whole laptop line, or offer several BTO options.

What makes the MacBook Pro "pro"? A larger screen? Big deal... There are many pros who would opt for a smaller screen, depending on the context.

Some weird decisions here.

Dakar · May 16, 2006, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by willed

Has been pointed out elsewhere that there is a $150 premium just for getting the black one. The only difference between that and the mid-range white one hardware-wise is a 20GB bigger HD, which costs $50 to upgrade to from teh white one... and yet the black one costs $200 more.
Cynical.

Yes, three posts above yours.

Dakar · May 16, 2006, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Yeah, I noticed that too. I'd like to think that the black model won't sell very well for this reason.

It looks like the main distinction between MacBook and MacBook Pro is no longer processor speed, but in screen size. We're almost at the point where it would make sense to perfect one design and use it across the whole laptop line, or offer several BTO options.

What makes the MacBook Pro "pro"? A larger screen? Big deal... There are many pros who would opt for a smaller screen, depending on the context.

Some weird decisions here.

Does the 'Pro' have integrated graphics?

Shaddim · May 16, 2006, 09:55 AM

Integrated GFX = junk

I knew they'd find some way to screw this up.

Dakar · May 16, 2006, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Integrated GFX = junk

I knew they'd find some way to screw this up.

You didn't see this coming after the MacMini debacle?

Kr0nos · May 16, 2006, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

…Some weird decisions here.

Not if the 'new' MacBook Pros are going to be completely revamped, - which is what I'm hoping for. I also hope that they are going to include a 'non glossy screen option'.

A black MBP, Pismo shape, new HDs, 'n' standard WiFi…yeah!

Dakar · May 16, 2006, 10:04 AM

Yup, I can't wait for people to start bitching that the Pro doesn't come in Black.

Stradlater · May 16, 2006, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by willed

Has been pointed out elsewhere that there is a $150 premium just for getting the black one. The only difference between that and the mid-range white one hardware-wise is a 20GB bigger HD, which costs $50 to upgrade to from teh white one... and yet the black one costs $200 more.
Cynical.

Would you rather the white model cost more? Count your opportunities and take advantage of your brilliant power to compare.

Eug Wanker · May 16, 2006, 10:11 AM

The price of the black model is stupid. Luckily, I prefer white.

Dakar · May 16, 2006, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Stradlater

Would you rather the white model cost more?

I think a lot of people would -- because they'd rather have the black one.

faragbre967 · May 16, 2006, 10:21 AM

That graphics card is just stinky. This would have been my next computer purchase if it had been a little better, but I don't think you could run any newer games at all. Oh well, hopefully the next revision fixes the problems.

willed · May 16, 2006, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar

Yes, three posts above yours.

Thanks. You're very clever. Except that the post you mention said that the black one was simply 'top-end'. Didn't point out why it was a rip off.

ort888 · May 16, 2006, 10:24 AM

The low end is also $100 more then the old low end. Is Apple the only computer company in the world that keeps raising the price of their products?

What gives?

And the black thing is totally lame.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 16, 2006, 10:27 AM

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Integrated GFX = junk

I knew they'd find some way to screw this up.

My Intel Mini runs HD video better than the G4 mini with a video card.

Unless you are a gamer you won't notice, and why the hell would a gamer buy a iBook?

Eug Wanker · 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by ort888

The low end is also $100 more then the old low end. Is Apple the only computer company in the world that keeps raising the price of their products?

What gives?

I'm not surprised at all, given the crappy US dollar. Actually, I'm surprised in that they put a Core Duo 1.83 in the low end model. I was originally predicting a Core Solo 1.66 or something, for $1099.

Dakar · May 16, 2006, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by willed

Thanks. You're very clever. Except that the post you mention said that the black one was simply 'top-end'. Didn't point out why it was a rip off.

I didn't know I had to go into detail.

Eug Wanker · May 16, 2006, 10:32 AM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Unless you are a gamer you won't notice, and why the hell would a gamer buy a iBook?

You don't have to be a hardcore gamer to play games.

What's will all the Apple apologies? Personally I can fully understand why someone would want a nice small machine with a more reasonable GPU. It's not just games either. Lots of uses for nice GPUs. I can also understand Apple's choices not to offer such a machine, but I find it very odd that every time someone mentions they would prefer a different option, you bring up this gamer non-argument, or that somehow pros who want a little more GPU performance can't possibly function on a 1280x800 laptop.

BTW, not surprisingly, I'm ALREADY seeing posts on other forums saying that if Apple had provided a better GPU OPTION they would have bought this laptop. However, since Apple didn't they're going elsewhere. It wasn't enough to stop me from buying, but I would have paid more for a MacBook with an upgraded GPU.

Dakar · May 16, 2006, 10:34 AM

I still think we'll see price drops on the low-end machines once we get our 64-bit Intel chips. When's that slated for, late this year? Early next?

Albert Pujols · May 16, 2006, 10:37 AM

Why aren't they including the Mini-DVI to VGA adapter this time?

"VGA Supported (Mini-DVI to VGA adapter required - sold separately)"

Eug Wanker · May 16, 2006, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Albert Pujols

Why aren't they including the Mini-DVI to VGA adapter this time?

"VGA Supported (Mini-DVI to VGA adapter required - sold separately)"

To save money. I had to order both the DVI and the VGA adapters.

PacHead · May 16, 2006, 10:41 AM

So I guess there will never be a 13" pro version ?

And it's good to see that Apple finally went back to black from the metrosexual and gay looking white colors, but why the price premium for black ?

I thought they would still offer the old powerbook 12" on their site for a little bit, but I guess not.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 16, 2006, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

You don't have to be a hardcore gamer to play games.

What's will all the Apple apologies?

I NEVER EVER apologies for Apple and I think everyone here knows that.

The MacBook Pro's quality is garbage. I hate a glossy screen, charging for black is stupid.

The video card thing is reasonable. I had to open my Mini the other day and I can tell you the reason there is no video card in there is because there is no damn room. They even had to make the RAM laptop ram. So far my Mini plays video effects better than my Dual G5 with a 64 meg card.

Anyone who is anal enough to worry about framerates is smart enough not to buy the lowest end laptop Apple sells. Heck, smart gamers build their own PC's.
Out of 100 people who buy an iBook the video card will be an issue for 2 of them.

Matt OS X · May 16, 2006, 10:51 AM

Looking GOOD!!!!

Eug Wanker · May 16, 2006, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

I NEVER EVER apologies for Apple and I think everyone here knows that.

The MacBook Pro's quality is garbage. I hate a glossy screen, charging for black is stupid.

The video card thing is reasonable. I had to open my Mini the other day and I can tell you the reason there is no video card in there is because there is no damn room. They even had to make the RAM laptop ram. So far my Mini plays video effects better than my Dual G5 with a 64 meg card.

Anyone who is anal enough to worry about framerates is smart enough not to buy the lowest end laptop Apple sells. Heck, smart gamers build their own PC's.
Out of 100 people who buy an iBook the video card will be an issue for 2 of them.

I guess all 2 are already in this thread then. Gimme a break.

And since when do people build their own laptops?

BTW, nobody has said that the lowest end laptop should necessarily have better gfx. As has been said before, the idea is to have a mid end 13" laptop with better gfx. For instance, that black would be a good candidate for better gfx, given that there isn't anything else besides the slightly bigger hard drive to justify the large price increase.

ort888 · May 16, 2006, 11:14 AM

I like this offering overall, but I don't have a strong urge to upgrade. My current iBook should be good for another year or two... seeing as how I really only use it for web surfing.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

I guess all 2 are already in this thread then. Gimme a break.

Ya, a computer forum is a great place to get accurate results, not that they are prone to geeks bitching over every little thing. How long until someone says they want a 8 in one media card reader in it? This morning I have already got TWO people or order a MacBook. Neither one of them gives crap about a video card as they shouldn't for the work they will do with it. In fact everyone I have even known who has got an iBook (other than you) has not cared less about the video card. iBooks are for web, email, ilife. They are not gaming machines or to edit Final Cut pro or Aperture. Everyone who buys one knows this. Never has anyone said to me "I want to get the iBook to edit final cut pro and do pro photography". The ones that do know they need a powerbook.

It is so ridiculous to see people want to buy the cheapest system available yet expect all the same guts as the higher end systems.

What would make you happy? A 64MB video card, bigger hard drive, more RAM and all for the same price? Common. Even if it cost Apple another $2 for all those things multiply that by the hundreds of thousands they will sell.

So far the Mini having core graphics hasn't deterred people as it is selling like mad.

The fact that you now have a iBook that is as powerful as Apples PRO dual G5 towers should make anyone happy.

“Nobody should feel like they have to step down when you buy a MacBook,” said Schiller. “You don’t trade-off much in features between the MacBook and the MacBook Pro.”

No kidding. I mean look at the cost of a MacBook and MacBook Pro next to one another. Other than the screen size and Core graphics they are pretty much the same thing.

If you got an Ibook yesterday for the same price you got screwed...Smaller screen, not as bright, lower rez, much much slower, no camera, no motion sensors etc

These new iBooks are AMAZING and are going to sell like mad even with this integrated graphics.
Nicely done Apple!

Lets just hope the quality is better than the MBP's.

goMac · May 16, 2006, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Ya, a computer forum is a great place to get accurate results, not that they are prone to geeks bitching over every little thing. How long until someone says they want a 8 in one media card reader in it? This morning I have already got TWO people or order a MacBook. Neither one of them gives crap about a video card as they shouldn't for the work they will do with it. In fact everyone I have even known who has got an iBook (other than you) has not cared less about the video card.

Do you not realize 3D graphics are used other places besides games? Such as... OS X's entire windowing system?

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 16, 2006, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

Do you not realize 3D graphics are used other places besides games? Such as... OS X's entire windowing system?

Nawww, really? Good thing it supports core graphics and works better than my Dual G5 with 64 meg video card.

have you even used a Mac with core graphics yet? Obviously not.

olePigeon · May 16, 2006, 11:33 AM

Rev B MacBooks will probably all come in Black and White. I'm sure by the next Macworld or whatever, I wouldn't be surprised if that's a marketing jingle. "It's better in black & white." Or something like that.

goMac · May 16, 2006, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Nawww, really? Good thing it supports core graphics and works better than my Dual G5 with 64 meg video card.

have you even used a Mac with core graphics yet? Obviously not.

What the hell are you talking about? Yes, I have a Mac with Core Graphics. No, Core Graphics has nothing to do with the windowing system.

I write Core Graphics code. Yeah, the GMA950 runs it great, but for Quartz Composer and OpenGL the GMA950 is horrible. And given that big future Quartz Composer, and future window server enhancements are both going to be heavy on 3D graphics, the use of the GMA950 really sucks.

I don't think you have the slightest clue about the graphics subsystem.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 16, 2006, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Rev B MacBooks will probably all come in Black and White. I'm sure by the next Macworld or whatever, I wouldn't be surprised if that's a marketing jingle. "It's better in black & white." Or something like that.

You mean Pro's.

And I doubt it.

Pro: Towers, MBP's = Silver

Consumer: iPod, iMac, Macbook = anything that looks like an iPod i.e black and white.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 16, 2006, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

I don't think you have the slightest clue about the graphics subsystem.

Right, and neither does all the people that are buying Mini's and MacBooks as we speak.

Don't give me this "I'm 19 and write code for video games and now Apples Core Graphics" bit.

You buy the cheapest and you get what you pay for. This MacBook is a steal!
Show me a iLife app or internet/email usage where this is going to be an issue. If you want to use anything other than those apps Apple recommends a Pro system as they rightly should.

You don't like it, pay a ton more for a MacBook pro and you can get over the horribleness or core graphics.

goMac · May 16, 2006, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Right, and neither does all the people that are buying Mini's and MacBooks as we speak.

You buy the cheapest and you get what you pay for.

Hey, I'm getting a Macbook for my girlfriend. That doesn't mean I'm under some illusion that the GPU is still going to run the next few versions of OS X silky smooth.

olePigeon · May 16, 2006, 11:39 AM

Here's another first: Apple's MacBook is cheaper than a similarly equipped Dell with discounts. That doesn't include the camera, slotload super drive, backlit keyboard, or iLife apps into the price.

Pretty sweet.

olePigeon · May 16, 2006, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

You mean Pro's.

And I doubt it.

Pro: Towers, MBP's = Silver

Consumer: iPod, iMac, Macbook = anything that looks like an iPod i.e black and white.

No, I mean MacBooks. To include the lowend models with the Black paint option, not just the highend.

And there's no god damn apostrophe in plurals!

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 16, 2006, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

Hey, I'm getting a Macbook for my girlfriend. That doesn't mean I'm under some illusion that the GPU is still going to run the next few versions of OS X silky smooth.

Good thing is is so cheap that in 3 years you can get another one for less then it would have cost you to get a MBP once today with a video card.

Make sense?

goMac · May 16, 2006, 11:45 AM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Right, and neither does all the people that are buying Mini's and MacBooks as we speak.

Don't give me this "I'm 19 and write code for video games and now Apples Core Graphics" bit.

You buy the cheapest and you get what you pay for. This MacBook is a steal!

You don't like it, pay a ton more for a MacBook pro and you can get over the horribleness or core graphics.

I've been featured in MacWorld and MacAddict. I've been to WWDC, and I sat in the Intel Labs porting my code over, including my code for CoreImage which apparently I know very little about. Don't belittle me. I know perfectly well what I'm talking about.

Don't you find it odd that the iBook shipped with a better GPU than the Macbook? Microsoft won't even support the GMA950 in Vista, but meantime Apple gladly is using it. As soon as Apple decides to match Vista's window server feature set we're going to see the GMA950 become unusable.

ort888 · May 16, 2006, 11:46 AM

Now I want a black iMac.

goMac · May 16, 2006, 11:47 AM

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Good thing is is so cheap that in 3 years you can get another one for less then it would have cost you to get a MBP once today with a video card.

Make sense?

I'm glad to see Apple is building replaceable laptops these days instead of quality laptops.

Dakar · May 16, 2006, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by ort888

Now I want a black iMac.

lol that'd piss me off seeing as I just got one.

Then again,it'd only be available on the 20" for $100 extra.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · May 16, 2006, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by goMac

I'm glad to see Apple is building replaceable laptops these days instead of quality laptops.

People on average replace their computers ever 3 years.

Cell phones are replaced every 2 on average.

Neither one is considered "replaceable".