[starman]

Hi all,
As stated on the main MacNN page, I got my 733MHz machine today. Instead of all the questions going to the comments page where they'll eventually get lost, let's I started this thread instead.

Mike

[starman]

1) Yes, I have a G4/400 Sawtooth with the original ATI and a Voodoo 5 in it. UT benchmarks using TimeDemo are...strange. It says 17 FPS, but it's just as good, if not better than the Voodoo. I'm still transferring things from one computer to another so you'll have to wait a bit for me to iron out the issues.

2) Have I authored anything? Well, in preparation for the machine, I put together a 90-minute video of our trip to Spain in '92. I started the authoring work but it's not finished yet. Believe me, it's very high on my priority list on things to do this weekend.

3) I ordered it before the keynote ended. "It does WHAT??? ".

4) I have the Q3 CD here to be installed. Be patient .

5) It's a Maxtor drive.

As for the RAM question (322 vs. 222), I can't find it in my profiler. Here's what Profiler tells me:

Built in memory: 256MB PC133 CL3
Memory type: SDRAM

Sorry, but that's all I get from it.

An update for UT: using "TimeDemo statistics" and using CTF-Face on "Practice" with 3 other bots, I get an average of 25. Now, is that FPS??? Can't be - it run way too smoothly for only 25fps. Is UT reporting this number properly? What else can I check UT with?

Mike

[PowerBookDude]

Have you tired the SuperDrive yet?

How do you it overall?



------------------
Ti 500/384/20/Airport

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by starman:
Built in memory: 256MB PC133 CL3
Memory type: SDRAM

CL3 = 322.
Most PC133 is 322 (CL3 = cas latency 3)

Cipher13

[This message has been edited by Cipher13 (edited 02-23-2001).]

[themotor]

Regarding the RAM speed, 2 2 2 vs. 3 2 2: You can pop open the machine and look right at the DIMM modules to see what is marked on them. I'm betting it says 2 2 2.

[starman]

Hyundai memory, a sticker on it says CL3.

"PC133U-333-542:

Mike

I believe the only question on my mind is
"when will I get mine?"
I ordered on the 10th, does that mean I'll
have to wait until october 2025?

[abnyc]

please let us know when you encoded your first dvd, what the video specs/format was and what you used to sequence/encode the actual project...

thanks...

Alex

Does the motherboard have two processor slots or only one? It would be nice, at a later date, to be able to add a second processor. I'm hoping Apple hasn't abandoned the multi-processor Macs again.

[JB72]

Originally posted by sdenney:
Does the motherboard have two processor slots or only one? It would be nice, at a later date, to be able to add a second processor. I'm hoping Apple hasn't abandoned the multi-processor Macs again.

In the MWT keynote, Jobs actually mentioned something like "so when you add another proccesser..." when talking about SMP in Darwin. Interesting.

------------------
JB71.338x

Dock Pervert? You bet your ascot I am!

[themotor]

D'OH
I forgot that it was PC133 RAM

Regarding Maxtor drives, they have to go through 10 power cycles before they go at normal speed. I forget which website did a comparison between IBM and Maxtor drives, but until the 10th power up of the drive, it was at half speed with slow results. After the 10th powerup of the drive, it was much swifter.

Congrats on the new purchase!

Specifically what kind of Maxstor, and what're the RPM's? Also could you post MacBench scores? I know MB is old but.... what else is there?

For UT

Bring up the console.

Type "timedemo 1"

Type "open cityintro.unr"

Close the console.

Hit esc, and watch for several cycles.

My samples:

G4/400, Rage128 Pro, 640x480, 32 bit color, high detail: ~33 fps

PowerTower 180e G3/390, V3, 640x480, 16 bit color, high detail: ~20 fps

I ordered mine on Jan. 13th. It was shipped out Thursday and is sitting at fed ex on Oahu. I have to wait till Monday when it gets here to Maui. I can't stop the drool

[NeoMac]

Starman,

You should know that iDVD only burns 1 hour of DVD -- or so I have heard. Your 90min movie is too long. You can burn more than 1 hour, but that will require DVD Studio Pro.

let's us know how it goes though.

[milhouse]

The processor is a Dual setup on a single card so there is only ONE slot either way

[mjpaci]

The drive is the limiting factor in burn time, not the software. The SuperDrive only burns one-sided single layer discs. DVD-Studio Pro will let you create and encode the information, but to burn it you will need a different drive.

IDVD burns dvds at a high constant bitrate, which allows it burn them so fast. However DVD studio pro could burn a 90 minute dvd easily, just not very fast, because it has the capacity to burn at a variable bitrate if required which keeps the bitrate at high action scenes high and low at low action scenes, allowing for more content without a degradation in quality. However VBR will take much longer to burn based upon all of the calculations which must be done to determine what scenes deserve highest bitrates and so on. This can be compared somewhat to CBR vs VBR mp3s

[starman]

Updates:

Q3A - no updates (off the CD): 78fps at "Normal", 55fps at 124x768, 32bits.

UT - 27fps for cityintro at 1024x768 (everything maxed). I don't understand this. I should be getting better numbers.

Making DVDs - I made a DVD from my 90 minute video. You have to use DVD Studio Pro which I bought because iDVD doesn't compress the audio into Dolby Digital which is why the iDVD output only allows an hour of space. Other than a glitch in Final Cut Pro which rendered my stereo audio in mono, the DVD looks gorgeous (for an old analog tape conversion). Menus worked fine as did the chapter stops. The only downside in working with DVD Studio Pro is that you have to know in advance how much space you have left on the DVD AFTER you do your menus. Also, a 4.7 GB disk has a usable space of 4.5 GB. So, I had to re-encode my 90 minute video overnight: it takes 7 hours.

Mike

[schalliol]

That is AWESOME!

I bet you have the first "consumer" DVD burned on a 733 with DVD Studio Pro right there! Hey, I wonder if the Serial Number indicates what number of f the line yours is.

A note for everyone else. Maccentral states that it's no longer 4-7 weeks (or 4-6 whatever it was) wait if you order today, it now says 21 days!

[olePigeon]

Starman, if you opted for the nVidia card you'll get a lot slower speeds. That's about what I pulled on my DP533. When I switched it with a 16MB ATI it nearly doubled.

[NeoMac]

Doesn't UT use RAVE? And the GeForce doesn't support RAVE? Maybe that is why you get the low FPS in UT.

About iDVD, did you try it? Does it really encode at 2x? Could you let us know.

A dual-733 must encode at 1x.

Originally posted by Cipher13:
CL3 = 322.
Most PC133 is 322 (CL3 = cas latency 3)

Cipher13

[This message has been edited by Cipher13 (edited 02-23-2001).]

How do you get this info? I only get J3?BOTTOM 32 MB Dimm

Originally posted by starman:
Updates:

Making DVDs - I made a DVD from my 90 minute video. You have to use DVD Studio Pro which I bought because iDVD doesn't compress the audio into Dolby Digital which is why the iDVD output only allows an hour of space. Other than a glitch in Final Cut Pro which rendered my stereo audio in mono, the DVD looks gorgeous (for an old analog tape conversion). Menus worked fine as did the chapter stops. The only downside in working with DVD Studio Pro is that you have to know in advance how much space you have left on the DVD AFTER you do your menus. Also, a 4.7 GB disk has a usable space of 4.5 GB. So, I had to re-encode my 90 minute video overnight: it takes 7 hours.

Mike

How much of the 90 minutes was actual "video", without graphics, titles, etc.?

[apple4ever]

How does it do in iTunes? I mean a large full screen visual while playing. What frame rate do you get? You'll have to click options in the upper right hand corner while playing a visual in non-full screen mode, uncheck cap at 30, and click always displace framerate.

------------------
Pennsylvania Patriot
Mac Lover

[Celos]

Originally posted by NeoMac:

Doesn't UT use RAVE? And the GeForce doesn't support RAVE?

The GeForce *does* support RAVE. The following is excerpted from an interview with nVidia over at xlr8yourmac (actual interview at http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/Graphics/....html#storytop:

Question: Do you support/accelerate QuickDraw and 3D RAVE?
Answer: Yes, our drivers support all of Apple's features, including QuickDraw and 3D RAVE

Question: Do you support/accelerate Quicktime video playback?
Answer: Yes, Quicktime is also supported and accelerated.

I don't know how robust their RAVE support is yet (obviously they're focusing on the present/future, which means OpenGL), but it *is* there. I remember reading something that says if you edit the .ini files in some games and turn off the ATI-specific strings you'll get better performance. Since my new G4 is waiting on the GF3, I can't test it yet.

I'm ordering my dual 533 on Monday. Yeah, I'd love to go with the 733, but I'll be doing buttloads of Photoshop stuff with it. And hopefully when System X is complete, the MP code will be fully functional, as will Quake 3 and hopefully the other cool game (UT). We'll see though.

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US

-he who stacks pork

Originally posted by Leopold Porkstacker:
I'm ordering my dual 533 on Monday. Yeah, I'd love to go with the 733, but I'll be doing buttloads of Photoshop stuff with it. And hopefully when System X is complete, the MP code will be fully functional, as will Quake 3 and hopefully the other cool game (UT). We'll see though.

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US

-he who stacks pork

Yo, Porky... what the hell does your last statement here mean? Whatever you were saying (???), I believe you meant to use *will* instead of *are*.

I mean this just struck me as strange. There you were talking about getting a sweet dual 533 and then it's like you starting hearing voices and **** . Keep it real.

Mark

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Appleman:

Originally posted by Cipher13:
CL3 = 322.
Most PC133 is 322 (CL3 = cas latency 3)

Cipher13

[This message has been edited by Cipher13 (edited 02-23-2001).]

How do you get this info? I only get J3?BOTTOM 32 MB Dimm

Hm... you have an older machine not capable of displaying the cas latency... I'm betting its pre-NWR.

Cipher13

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by Mark Slaughter:
Yo, Porky... what the hell does your last statement here mean? Whatever you were saying (???), I believe you meant to use *will* instead of *are*.

I mean this just struck me as strange. There you were talking about getting a sweet dual 533 and then it's like you starting hearing voices and **** . Keep it real.

Mark

Hahaha, dude, check the lounge for more info

Cipher13

Mike, take a look at Maxon Computers CINEBENCH 2000 - speedtest.
It's a good test of your macs 3D performance and if you run it I would love to see the result. You can find it here ---->
http://www.maxon-computer.com/pages/...enchmarks.html

Gerry

Originally posted by Leopold Porkstacker:

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US

See <http://www.wired.com/news/print/0,1294,42009,00.html> for more info.

[virex]

what is the difference between the 233 and the 333??? cause i just found out that the cheap 256meg i bought for my ti is 233 and the apple installed is 333.....i'm guessing this means speed but i know it isn't mhz...since it's 100mhz......but i want to know how much this will effect the machine...

[Celos]

Originally posted by virex:
what is the difference between the 233 and the 333??? cause i just found out that the cheap 256meg i bought for my ti is 233 and the apple installed is 333.....i'm guessing this means speed but i know it isn't mhz...since it's 100mhz......but i want to know how much this will effect the machine...

The difference is the so-called "Column Latency" of the RAM. Huh? What column latency essentially means is the number of clock cycles between the SDRAM controller asking for a piece of data from the RAM and the RAM returning it. 233 means that it has a column latency of 2 cycles. 333 means it has a column latency of 3 cycles.

So in most cases 233 (also known as CAS2 or CL2 RAM) should be, well, 33% faster. But the SDRAM controller has to take advantage of this fact, and typically the SDRAM controller will run at the speed of the slowest RAM in the array, which in your case is CL3.

I don't know, and haven't seen anywhere, whether the new G4s take advantage of CAS2 RAM or not. Anybody know?

You'll find that most RAM, near as I can tell, is CL3 RAM. Usually CL2 RAM is more expensive. But RAM is so cheap right now it doesn't matter.

[virex]

so what your saying is....not only did i get this ram for 93 bucks...much cheaper then apple's 256's..... but it's also faster? that's sad apple...not a big deal...but one of the little things that add up

[Fluffy]

Originally posted by Celos:

I don't know, and haven't seen anywhere, whether the new G4s take advantage of CAS2 RAM or not. Anybody know?

The current G4's are capable of taking full advantage of 2-2-2 SDRAM, as well as ESDRAM. The G4 will access the RAM at the speed of the slowest RAM installed.

[G Barnett]

Suggestion on your problems with the Kensington Mouse -- disable the USB Device Extension. I was having issues with InputSprocket-aware programs not recognizing either my Pro Mouse or my Kensington T-ball until I disabled it.

I know, rather an odd solution, but it worked for me. Seeing as I don't have any other USB devices, I'm not sure what all of the side effects may be.

Oh, and Q3 absolutely SCREAMS on my new 533 G4, so on your 733, it should be begging for mercy.


G Barnett

[Etnier]

Starman-

Congratulations on your new acquisition!!! A question-

Can you use the Superdrive to write DATA DVD-R's? In other words, could I copy files and folders to a DVD-R and read them back?

John Etnier http://www.studiodual.com

Hi, Mike

Please let me know if iDVD and DVD Studio Pro are Applescript scriptable.
Thanks,

Mariano

[Bigc]

CAS latency explained. good for 2.5 nanoseconds.
<http://sysopt.earthweb.com/articles/latency/index.html>

[BeneathHisFeet]

Man, this is killing me.

I ordered a 733 on 1/9, but I made a couple of BTO changes (Radeon and added the internal Zip). Apple says it will ship by Friday. I can't wait.

We've also got a few DP 533s in the office with the gForce 2MX, I'll post some benchmarks when I get a chance.

Received my 733 G4, stock build, today. Only note to add is that rather than the Maxtor, this one came with the IBM Deskstar 60g (appears to be identical to the ATA 100 IBM Deskstar 60g I bought to add into the second bay, excepting the Apple logo, of course).

[schalliol]

Are you meaning in the bottom of the case or below the removeable media drive?

What do the DVD-Rs look like, do they have branding? What do they say on them?

Also, could you answer these questions (I know some are duplicates)?
1. When did you order your 733?
2. How did you place your order/where did you get it? If you ordered via Apple, did you purchase it retail, with educational discount or with developer discount?
3. Did you purchase the standard config?
4. What manufacturer is the hard drive?
5. When you go into Apple System Profiler, what kind of memory is used? 222, 322, etc.
6. Have you mastered/encoded any dvd movies yet with either iDVD or DVD Studio Pro?
7. Do you have the Two DVD-R and Two CD-R discs we heard were included?
7. Can you write data to DVDs like you can with CD-Rs/CD-RWs?
8. Finally, could you please post the details from an Apple System Profiler report (press Command-N)?

Thanks!

Just a note on something that was mentioned near the top:

VBR and CBR should take the same time to write to the disc, assuming files of the same size (in fact, a well encoded VBR MPEG2 stream should be smaller than CBR, so would burn faster). The time diference will be in the MPEG2 encoding stage, as it is with VBR vs CBR mp3s. Once the file is encoded to MPEG2, it is simply written to the DVD-R using a specific file format that is set out in the DVD-V spec, and is to the player and recorder no different to a CBR file.

Perhaps the VOBs are being multiplexed as a part of the burning process, instead of before. That would explain the greater time to burn a VBR encoded DVD.

[iSilver]

I know this is ff topic but there has been discussion of various types of RAM here, mostly mentioning 233 or 333, Memory X are selling 322 RAM, does anybody know what this is?

This is what their page says at: http://www.memoryx.net/apl168y256.html
256mb SDRAM <b>PC133-322</b> (3.3-volt, unbuffered, 64-bit-wide, 168-pin, running at 133 MHz cas latency 3)

Starman if you have an NVIDIA card, for Unreal Tournament you need to edit the .ini file and change the line that says "NonATI" from FALSE to TRUE. You should also try OpenGL rendering. Instructions are included with the latest UT 436 updater. They changed how that works quite a bit, more .INI file editing.

[inajar]

Originally posted by iSilver:
I know this is ff topic but there has been discussion of various types of RAM here, mostly mentioning 233 or 333, Memory X are selling 322 RAM, does anybody know what this is?

This is what their page says at: http://www.memoryx.net/apl168y256.html
256mb SDRAM <b>PC133-322</b> (3.3-volt, unbuffered, 64-bit-wide, 168-pin, running at 133 MHz cas latency 3)

From what I know all of the folks here making references to 233 latency memory are actually referring to the 322 latency chips you are talking about.

I've only ever seen three different latency ratings for PC100/133 SDRAM, 333 (the slowest), 322 (slightly faster), and 222 (the fastest). If you're looking for the fastest check out Kensignton ValueRAM. I know it sounds cheap, but it is actually better than what Apple is shipping in there machines right now. I bought a 128 MB ValueRAM chip a while back and expected it to be 322, but it is in fact 222. I don't have a link, but I know some of the bigger catalog resellers stock Kensington ValueRAM.

I understand that the difference between 322 and 222 is negligible, but hey every little bit helps, right?

I read somewhere that giving UT LOTS of ram will help too ( 250+MB to UT ) I cannot confirm because my 733 is waiting on the GeForce 3 card and I was told to expect it very late March or early April. Ordered it from SmallDog Electronics mid February. The drool is ruining my carpets.

I'm curious if you ran Gauge Pro or Throughput V1.5. I tested my G4/733 and got really weird results. Some tests showed my computer being way too slow, other benchmarks showed it being really fast.

As far as UT cityintro, that's a crappy benchmark anyway as it has nothing to do with in-game performance. Try running the wicked400 benchmark. I also got poor results from cityintro but some of the best Wicked400 scores I've ever seen for a Mac running UT.

Check out my full writeup at: http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/G4ZONE/G4....html#storytop

Comments are being filed in the xlr8yourmac forums as well, but please let me know at least about your Gauge Pro results. Thanks!