[daimoni]

Originally posted by Logic:
What problems do the swedes have?

And is there any country in the world that doesn't have some "problems" in their economy?

Oh jesus christ, not again. Give it up, dude.

[Logic]

Originally posted by daimoni:
Oh jesus christ, not again. Give it up, dude.

?

Please elaborate.

[daimoni]

Originally posted by Logic:
?

Please elaborate.

I'm sorry, I have a cold and I'm just not in the mood. I'll leave this thread so you guys can carry on.

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally posted by theolein:
Simey is partly right about Germany being over bureaucratic and under productive, but he neglects things like the high levels of subsdies paid to Poland, the lack of quality levels in Polish products (I'm taking Poland as an example for most of the new EU) and the fact that prices of basic necsseties are far lower in Poland than they are in Germany. While Polish workers are more productive than German workers, i.e. lower wages (not much higher hours though) they also pay less for rent, food etc than German workers do. Will they catch up to western Europe? Only if the EU continues paying high levels of subsidies to them, as they did to Spain, Portugal and Greece. Germany and the Uk are finally getting tired of financing the rest of the EU at their own expense so this might change.

Apart from this, the problems of Germany are obviously the fact that German politics is hostage to the crappy trade unions and that there is so much infighting amongst the German political parties themselves. Where else in Europe is it still illegal to have one's store open in the evening or even 24/7?

That is a big problem in Germany. The inability to realise that times change and that not everything remains easy.

Whoa. Back up. You used too many words.

All you needed to say was "labor unions are the problem".

[alien]

Originally posted by daimoni:
Hey, Germany could just do the Norway method... and discover a shitload of oil.

While I did see that smiley, I just have to reply to this one:

Discovering oil did of course have a major impact on our economy.

But what most countries that suddenly get a lot of money in their hands discover, is that they can also cause a lot of trouble. Many have heard of the Dutch Disease. It's a complex phenomenon, but a rapid inflow of foreign currency can lead to a major shift between sectors in a country. Everything is well in the booming (oil) sector, and in the "nontraded" goods sector too, ie. retail, services (public and private), construction etc.

Unfortunately, the booming sectors cause a need for higher interest rates to avoid inflation, and a stronger currency follows. Add to that higher wage growth than in competing countries. All this together can be a real killer for the traditional industrial exports that typically are the most significant part of the GDP.

In Norway, the oil revenues have (in periods) caused some of this to happen. There are a few things that can be done though. One is to try and insulate the economy as much as possible from the new income, by letting it stay abroad. We have done so, by paying down our state debt, and in the latest years, by setting up a Petroleum Fund that invests in stocks and bonds all over the world. Only a fraction is to be taken into our economy each year, in theory 4%, but more can be taken in to counteract the impact of global downturns, like in the past couple of years. It's a struggle though, to explain why we can't spend more, when we have so much.

The other thing is just as important, and now we are back at the original discussion. Since 1981 or so, there's been a constant focus on economic reforms to increase productivity and to make it easier for business. Some of the reforms are:

* Liberalizing capital and stock markets.
* Making the central bank more independent.
* Easing business regulations.
* A new and better tax system.
* Easing trade across the borders.

It's worth mentioning that such reforms have come along with several extensions of the social welfare system. But we'll definitely see some shifts from some types of benefits to others in the years ahead.

This trend has continued under all governments for the past two decades, whether they have been Conservative/Center/Labour. Not everything is the way it should be, there are still some major flaws in the tax system, but reforms are under way. The same goes for the state pension and welfare systems, and other areas too. But at least we're moving in a direction with high GDP growth, low unemployment, increasing real wages, etc.

Looking at Germany, it seems like too many are just saying they want everything to be the way it was before, or that it's Scr�ders fault personally. Why are Germans so opposed to reforms? And why not begin with some tough reforms of the federal system and the constitutional court, since they have a lot of veto power. And there's always an election going on in Germany isn't it? Can't be easy to do necessary changes during election campaigns.

BTW, can Angela Merkel be Germany's Maggie?

[Developer]

I think it is generally wrong to say the German population is resistant to reforms. It is more that the German political elite is clueless about what to reform and how. The concept appears to be � reduce taxes (increase national debt) � reduce healthcare � punish unemployment. I'm not convinced that is going to help more than harm (and probably so do others). More useful reforms like � simplify tax system and � reduce subsidies they don't dare, apparently out of fear not to be reelected.

[SimeyTheLimey]

[aside]Thanks, Developer, for a topic about something other than American politics. It's a nice change.[/aside].

[alien]

Originally posted by Logic:
?

Please elaborate.

I can try and elaborate on Sweden's economical problems. The "Swedish model" basically broke down in the early 90-is with interest rate instability and the currency tumbling. The state debt became very large, the government had to cut back on spending, and the budget got a huge deficit.

There was very high unemployment, and a lot of nurses and construction workers moved temporarily to work in Norway. A lot of younger people took service jobs in Oslo, working in bars, caf�s and retail stores.

Of course, things have become much better now, and the Swedish economy is growing fast again. But if I have understood correctly, a lot of of the earlier system is gone now.

[theolein]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
Whoa. Back up. You used too many words.

All you needed to say was "labor unions are the problem".

Labour unions are the problem.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by theolein:
Labour unions are the problem.

no.

Labor unions are A problem.

[Sven G]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Those countries are absolutely poorer, but aren't their growth rates significantly higher?

The basic problem of Germany is overregulation, overtaxation, poor efficiency (mainly due to the excessive vacation time your workers take) and so on -- all measured in comparison to your immediate neighbors and trading partners. I saw a little of this when I lived in Germany in 1992 to 1995. None of this is a mystery. Both your previous governments have agreed, but seem powerless to overcome the inertia. I heard an interview with your industry representatives who talked about how it makes no financial sense to open up industries in Germany when they can do it cheaper and more efficiently in places like Poland. There were also some articles recently about your growing brain drain, much of which is emigration to the United States.

I grew up in Britain in the 1970s and 1980s. This is very much reminiscent of Britain in the 1970s when it was "the sick man of Europe." What you need is a Margaret Thatcher and the will to fix the problems and sacrifice a little. It's no more complicated than that.

Sure, sure: if you only concentrate on the formal economic/financial/etc. aspects...

As for "savage privatization" and so on (Thatcher & Co.: see the disastrous privatization of the British Railways, BTW), just compare, for example, Britain's public transportation network with Germany's: Germany is light years ahead (both in space and time!), also as regards other European countries (not to talk about the US) - and mainly due to the '60s and '70s policies - and ideals - you seem to so irrationally despise.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Sven G:
Sure, sure: if you only concentrate on the formal economic/financial/etc. aspects...

As for "savage privatization" and so on (Thatcher & Co.: see the disastrous privatization of the British Railways, BTW), just compare, for example, Britain's public transportation network with Germany's: Germany is light years ahead (both in space and time!), also as regards other European countries (not to talk about the US) - and mainly due to the '60s and '70s policies - and ideals - you seem to so irrationally despise.

Germany does have a very good rail network. But it didn't suddenly start being better than the British system only after the British system was privatized. Trust me on that, I used to ride British Rail back in the 70s. It was a national joke.

And while you are comparing Germany to Britain, how about asking Brits this question: would they swap their rail network for Germany's if in exchange they had to take Germany's unemployment rate?

The reason I despise the politics of the 1970s is far from irrational. I dispise them because they failed so miserably and because I lived there during the time of that failure. The irrational one is you if you are nostalgic for those times. Don't you live in Italy? I did some traveling in Italy in 1978. Chaos! There was runaway inflation, you couldn't be sure the mail would get through because the mail system got overloaded and when it did, the mail handlers simply burned the excess; the country was so short of change that you got chocolate back with every purchase (it's how I discovered Pocket Coffee ). On top of all of that, the economy was crippled with wildcat strikes. No sir, I would not be nostalgic for that!

[Sven G]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
I did some traveling in Italy in 1978. Chaos!

As for trains, it isn't much better today: rather similar to the British railway system.

Anyway, it's not that I'm nostalgic: it's rather that the "Thatcherite" system has proven to be even worse than the nationalized one (and, for that matter, it should be clear that I don't like either one!).

My main point is that unregulated "competition" is headed towards disaster, and in a manner much worse than the previous "regulated" state-subsidized system...

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Sven G:
As for trains, it isn't much better today: rather similar to the British railway system.

Anyway, it's not that I'm nostalgic: it's rather that the "Thatcherite" system has proven to be even worse than the nationalized one (and, for that matter, it should be clear that I don't like either one!).

My main point is that unregulated "competition" is headed towards disaster, and in a manner much worse than the previous "regulated" state-subsidized system...

The rail network wasn't the only industry privatized and in general Britain is economically better off than it was in the 1970s. It's certainly in better shape than Germany. Basically, Germany has taken Britain's old "sick man of Europe" title.

However, on my last trip to the UK I rented a car. I was actually pleasantly surprised. They have been building a lot of roads since my last visit. Nice ones.

[Sven G]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
However, on my last trip to the UK I rented a car. I was actually pleasantly surprised. They have been building a lot of roads since my last visit. Nice ones.

... Which isn't exactly what one would expect from an advanced "European" country: cars and motorways aren't really the future - not only from the environmental, but also from other points of view (see traffic chaos and irrational urbanistics, for example)...

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Sven G:
... Which isn't exactly what one would expect from an advanced "European" country: cars and motorways aren't really the future - not only from the environmental, but also from other points of view (see traffic chaos and irrational urbanistics, for example)...

Maybe they disagree about what "the future" is?

In any case, this is off topic. The question isn't transportation policy. Rather it is macroeconomic policy and specifically, what put Germany in the toilet.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
In any case, this is off topic. The question isn't transportation policy. Rather it is macroeconomic policy and specifically, what put Germany in the toilet.

I thought it WASN'T about "what put Germany in the toilet." At least, IIRC, that's what you said when "buying the GDR" was mentioned as the single greatest factor.

-s*

[phoenixboy]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Germany does have a very good rail network.

[sidenote]
i waited for a train for 20 minutes last night, freezing my balls off...it's at those times i would literally "kill" to have a car...
[/sidenote]

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
I thought it WASN'T about "what put Germany in the toilet." At least, IIRC, that's what you said when "buying the GDR" was mentioned as the single greatest factor.

-s*

I don't think subsidizing the GDR is the only reason. I think you are scapegoating there. I'm sure it is a factor, but it's certainly not the cause. I think it is more likely that it exacerbates your other problems, and is made more unaffordable by your other problems. But as I said earlier, it isn't as though your poor economic figures are just because the East drags your averages down. Your growth is low, and your unemployment is high in the west as well.

[phoenixboy]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
I don't think subsidizing the GDR is the only reason. I think you are scapegoating there. I'm sure it is a factor, but it's certainly not the cause. I think it is more likely that it exacerbates your other problems, and is made more unaffordable by your other problems. But as I said earlier, it isn't as though your poor economic figures are just because the East drags your averages down. Your growth is low, and your unemployment is high in the west as well.

that's simply not true. compared to the east (and all other "western" nations) it's relatively "low". and spheric is right, the single largest contributing factor to the current economic crisis in germany, is the annexation of the country formerly known as "die deutsche demokratische republik".

the second largets factor is globalization (and the eu's east expansion). followed by a much too complicated system of taxation, and yes, the trade unions are a problem as well. i'd be the first one to admit that. it's just that neo liberalism and privatization sure as hell aren't the answer.

[theolein]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
no.

Labor unions are A problem.

I forgot the Smiley. You're right, of course though. The labour unions are only a part of the problem. The biggest problem is the ingrained resistance to change and reform, amongst both the electorate and amongst the SPD and the Greens, where they spend more time fighting their own party than coming up with ideas to solve the crisis. The other part of the problem is that the SPD had no real concept or idea on how to improve things at all for a long time. They gave the impression of being a bunch of headless chickens, the result being that some of the ideas that they eventually came up with (increased taxes and reduced services) only brought about a storm of protest.

It is, in my eyes, a very typical German approach to make solutions that are all but unworkable, such as the moronically complex DBB tarifs that no one understood, or the medical payment scheme that seemed to have sprung from Kafka's worst nightmare.

I think the best part of the whole reform process that is taking place is that the German Bureaucracy is finally starting to get culled as well. If there was ever an institution guaranteed to hinder any progress in Germany it has been the bureaucracy.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by phoenixboy:
that's simply not true. compared to the east (and all other "western" nations) it's relatively "low".

Unemployment is 8.9% in the western Laender. That's hardly low.

(The statistic comes from Developer's link on page 1).

BTW, phoenixboy, what's the "ma" in your profile? Isn't MA the license tag abbreviation for Mannheim? Is that where you are? If so, I lived a year and a half in Sandhofen.

[Sven G]

Originally posted by theolein:
Labour unions are the problem.

If you mean this in the sense that they aren't revolutionary enough, it could indeed be...

Seriously, personally I think that the economy itself is the main problem: it has become a kind of god-like, almost untranscendable entity (with the associated psychological subjugation of consciences), after the failure of the models of the past. That's also why the so-called neoliberalism will eventually miserably fail - and fall, like previous gods in history.

[theolein]

Originally posted by phoenixboy:
that's simply not true. compared to the east (and all other "western" nations) it's relatively "low". and spheric is right, the single largest contributing factor to the current economic crisis in germany, is the annexation of the country formerly known as "die deutsche demokratische republik".

the second largets factor is globalization (and the eu's east expansion). followed by a much too complicated system of taxation, and yes, the trade unions are a problem as well. i'd be the first one to admit that. it's just that neo liberalism and privatization sure as hell aren't the answer.

Well, paying off the GDR's legacy is the single most expensive thing that any western european country has done post WWII iirc. Not even France's painful support payments for French overseas territories even remotely compares.

In retrospect I think a lot of German people would have second thoughts about the payments at least, even if they did avoid a lot of public envy and unrest in the East.

But added to all this is that there is no other country n Europe that has been bailing out the poorer members of the EU as much as Germany has (The UK is second afaik). I would not be surprised if the Germans would not eventually get upset about the subsidies made to support the Polish economy at the expense of the German taxpayer.

[theolein]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Unemployment is 8.9% in the western Laender. That's hardly low.

(The statistic comes from Developer's link on page 1).

That's lower than the French or Spanish unemployment rates afaik.

[phoenixboy]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Unemployment is 8.9% in the western Laender. That's hardly low.

(The statistic comes from Developer's link on page 1).

the link doesn't work anymore, which, in a starnge way, is very indicative of the current crisis in terms of dealing with unemployment in germany.

they just invested millions of euros to give the "arbeitsamt" (that's the agency in germany which is supposed to be responsible for reintroducing people into the workforce etc.) an overhaul. whyt did they get? a crappy website and a "name change"!

anywho. that figure seems kind of steep...

[theolein]

Originally posted by Sven G:
If you mean this in the sense that they aren't revolutionary enough, it could indeed be...

Seriously, personally I think that the economy itself is the main problem: it has become a kind of god-like, almost untranscendable entity (with the associated psychological subjugation of consciences), after the failure of the models of the past. That's also why the so-called neoliberalism will eventually miserably fail - and fall, like previous gods in history.

Excellent question that. I think dismissing the economy is a bit poor as economic transactions and the economy of a state being the main motor of most historic events should be obvious. The economy was and always will be the most import part of any nation. It is what we use as a tool for judging our survival, be it with cashless money in the form of e-commerce or cashless currency in the form of barter and trade in naturals. It is how a society basically survives.

The problem, I think with neo-liberalism is that it subjugates the individual to the so called will of the market forces (And these are murky, abstract and undefined things at best, with the result that the wealth mostly ends up in the hands of a few). NO one likes their will being subjugated. That is why communism failed and that is why there is such a huge movement against globalisation.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by theolein:
That's lower than the French or Spanish unemployment rates afaik.

But AFAIK, significantly higher than the UK (let alone the US).

In any case, it's the combination of low growth and high unemployment that spells stagnation. I don't see how paying for the GDR 13 years after reunification could be contributing to that. It's not just a matter of a subsidy or even the taxes that were levied to finance it. Something is depressing economic activity and shifting investment to other countries. I think Germans need to look beyond lamenting their decision to reunify and think ahead to how they can get their economy started again. Blaming the East isn't going to fix their problems.

However, what is sad about the GDR is that they seem much less able to recover from their Socialist past with the help of a rich uncle than other eastern European countries have been without it. Maybe a little bit of tough love was really needed.

[phoenixboy]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
BTW, phoenixboy, what's the "ma" in your profile? Isn't MA the license tag abbreviation for Mannheim? Is that where you are? If so, I lived a year and a half in Sandhofen.

oh, cool, that's only about 15 minutes from where i live...

[Developer]

Originally posted by phoenixboy:
the link doesn't work anymore, which, in a starnge way, is very indicative of the current crisis in terms of dealing with unemployment in germany.

they just invested millions of euros to give the "arbeitsamt" (that's the agency in germany which is supposed to be responsible for reintroducing people into the workforce etc.) an overhaul. whyt did they get? a crappy website and a "name change"!

Yes, they invested millions in consultancy contracts to get a name change.

That could be a thread by itself. A lot of politics in Germany is done with the help of external consultants - without apparent advantage and burning millions of money.

However, the link still works.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by phoenixboy:
oh, cool, that's only about 15 minutes from where i live...

Where?

I have very fond memories of Mannheim. Nice city.

[Sven G]

Originally posted by theolein:
The problem, I think with neo-liberalism is that it subjugates the individual to the so called will of the market forces (And these are murky, abstract and undefined things at best, with the result that the wealth mostly ends up in the hands of a few). NO one likes their will being subjugated. That is why communism failed and that is why there is such a huge movement against globalisation.

(I really meant The Market�, of course, as it essentially constitutes today's neo-liberal economy. That said, it would be interesting to evolve towards a cashless and moneyless economy, based on a more free exchange - but that would require very substantial changes, of course, which are best left to when people will really feel that neo-liberalism isn't the definitive solution. Today's situation is still too undefined, probably.)

[phoenixboy]

Originally posted by Developer:
Yes, they invested millions in consultancy contracts to get a name change.

That could be a thread by itself. A lot of politics in Germany is done with the help of external consultants - without apparent advantage and burning millions of money.

However, the link still works.

it didn't for me at the time...sorry.

[phoenixboy]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Where?

I have very fond memories of Mannheim. Nice city.

yeah, great place. i live near downtown, just moved here from heidelberg 2 years ago...

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by phoenixboy:
yeah, great place. i live near downtown, just moved here from heidelberg 2 years ago...

That far.

Obviously, you have guessed that I was there in the Army. Coleman barracks is actually midway between Sandhofen and Blumenau rather than being in Sandhofen itself. After I was there for a year and a half I moved to Bad Kreuznach. But I still used to go down to Mannheim or Heidelberg occasionally. I liked them both a lot more than Mainz or Frankfurt.

I heard my favorite Kneipe closed down. That was the Storchennest. It had the coolest "the inside is as if it is outside" decor and if you got them at the right time they would have a thunderstorm indoors -- complete with (light) rain.

The only problem with Mannheim is Eichbaum beer. That's got to be some of the worst beer in Germany.

[finboy]

Originally posted by Logic:
[B]Use the Swedish method. That method required the government to start creating jobs for the unemployed as well as making sure no one gets unemployment benefits without doing some work instead. Improve the infrastructure, rebuild the military, and that sort of stuff. That makes the government pump funds into the economy and gets the economy going again. [B]

Where does all that money come from? Is it just printed or something? In the short-term, that kind of thing might work, but it's changing the incentives to produce that will fix things. If Germany doesn't do it now, it will have to do so in a few years when the standard of living starts compressing. 4 day weeks are a luxury.

[phoenixboy]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
The only problem with Mannheim is Eichbaum beer. That's got to be some of the worst beer in Germany.

...they had a big fire there a couple of weeks ago. the whole plant almost burned to the ground...meh..didn't like the beer either.

[Developer]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
But I still used to go down to Mannheim or Heidelberg occasionally. I liked them both a lot more than Mainz or Frankfurt.

This just proves how clueless you are.

Frankfurt is the most beautiful city in the world!

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Developer:
This just proves how clueless you are.

Frankfurt is the most beautiful city in the world!

It's also the only one where I have seen a person mainlining heroin in the street in broad daylight.

[theolein]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
It's also the only one where I have seen a person mainlining heroin in the street in broad daylight.

Then there's probably a lot of places on this world that you haven't seen, and what that has to do with a city as whole is a mystery to me. There used to be the infamous needle park here in Z�rich where junkies would shhot up 24 hours a day. It lasted for years until the cops finally cleared it up in the mid-90's. In spite of that no one would have said Z�rich is an ugly city, which it isn't, even coming from someone like me who hates the place.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by finboy:
4 day weeks are a luxury.

They are also a myth - just to clarify.

-s*

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Developer:
This just proves how clueless you are.

Frankfurt is the most beautiful city in the world!

Frankfurt is probably the ugliest place I've ever been, though that might just be the city center. I have friends in L�mmerspiel, which is nice, despite the airplanes thundering overhead every three minutes, but that's not Frankfurt.

Mannheim is a close second. I really hate Mannheim.
It's the perfect combination of the utter ugliness of large cities with the provinciality of a back-ass hick village.

Heidelberg is a bit of a back-ass hick village, but at least it's beautiful.

Disclaimer: I gather that Mannheim has changed quite a bit over the past few years, and there's actually a resemblance of culture there now, what with "S�hne Mannheims" and all, so I do need to give them the benefit of the doubt. And while I'm sure there are nice corners of Mannheim, it probably didn't help that I lived in Vogelstang for four years. My impression of Hamburg might be slightly different, too, if I lived in M�mmelmannsberg...

Is the Muslim population in the city center still antagonized (I remember the big stink over the opening of that mosque), or has it all finally grown together a bit?

-s*

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by theolein:
Then there's probably a lot of places on this world that you haven't seen, and what that has to do with a city as whole is a mystery to me. There used to be the infamous needle park here in Z�rich where junkies would shhot up 24 hours a day. It lasted for years until the cops finally cleared it up in the mid-90's. In spite of that no one would have said Z�rich is an ugly city, which it isn't, even coming from someone like me who hates the place.

Oh please. I live in Northeast Washington, DC. I see junkies every day. What I don't see is them actually sticking the needle in at 11 am on a Saturday morning, in the street, with the Police literally watching and showing no interest whatsoever (they were in a car 10 feet from the juy with the strap round his arm). That might be your idea of an attractive destination, but it isn't mine. Other than Foto Hobby, I had no particular reason to go to Frankfurt. Mannheim and Heidelberg were just as close, and had better parking and less traffic.

Besides, as a general rule I simply prefer smaller cities to larger ones. It's the same reason I don't much care for London and can only stand New York for 2-3 days. I know many people love huge cities. I find them irritating.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
They are also a myth - just to clarify.

-s*

Not really. I saw an awful lot of people routinely knock off work at 2 pm every Friday. I.e. directly after returning from lunch. Theoretically, those people worked 5 days. In practice, they worked 4.

[Logic]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Not really. I saw an awful lot of people routinely knock off work at 2 pm every Friday. I.e. directly after returning from lunch. Theoretically, those people worked 5 days. In practice, they worked 4.

I do that as well when I'm not in school. But the reason I do that is because I have worked those hours lacking on friday during the week. It wouldn't surprise me if that was the case in Germany as well.



edited the part in bold to make the sentance say what I was trying to say

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Not really. I saw an awful lot of people routinely knock off work at 2 pm every Friday. I.e. directly after returning from lunch. Theoretically, those people worked 5 days. In practice, they worked 4.

Most places base your contract on hours per week.

If you have a 38.5-hour contract, you work 38.5 hours a week. Two hours less on a Friday == an extra hour two other days in the week.

Most people I know who leave early on Fridays do so to reduce their overtime-hours account.

-s*

[Troll]

Originally posted by theolein:
Then there's probably a lot of places on this world that you haven't seen, and what that has to do with a city as whole is a mystery to me. There used to be the infamous needle park here in Z�rich where junkies would shhot up 24 hours a day. It lasted for years until the cops finally cleared it up in the mid-90's. In spite of that no one would have said Z�rich is an ugly city, which it isn't, even coming from someone like me who hates the place.

I was living in Bern at the time of Blatspitz (sp?). What was even more surprising for me than Blatspitz was the Bern equivalent which was on the steps at the back of the Bundeshaus. You had junkies mainlining on the steps of the Parliament with free needles supplied from a caravan in the Parliament gardens!

[phoenixboy]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
Disclaimer: I gather that Mannheim has changed quite a bit over the past few years, and there's actually a resemblance of culture there now, what with "S�hne Mannheims" and all, so I do need to give them the benefit of the doubt. And while I'm sure there are nice corners of Mannheim, it probably didn't help that I lived in Vogelstang for four years.

Is the Muslim population in the city center still antagonized (I remember the big stink over the opening of that mosque), or has it all finally grown together a bit?

if you mean mannheim, yeah it's grown togehter quite a bit over the last few years. some of the downtown areas are being "cleaned" up and there are some really nice "old buildings" which are being restored. i love the turkish markets, and the variety of food you can choose from.

i'm not really into the whole "pop akdemie"/"sound of mannheim" thing, but to be fair there are some really nice spots around here (both for clubbing and outdoors, though not anywhere near vogelstang ). having said that, i would have no problem either moving to munich, berlin or hamburg if i had the oppotunity to score jobs there. i really like munich, though i'm totally appauled by bavarian politics etc.

...oh, and frankfurt sucks.

[phoenixboy]

Originally posted by alien:
BTW, can Angela Merkel be Germany's Maggie?

not if i have a say in it!

[Developer]

double post