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Eriamjh · Jan 12, 2009, 09:21 PM

I have the following setup (pardon my ASCII drawing):

---> Cable Modem--> Belkin Cable Modem Router --> Airport Extreme BS

I use the Belkin because it also has four wired ports and I need three of them at my desk.

However, we mostly access the internet from the AEBS wirelessly (two Macbooks, of course), and I have determined the Belkin is the source of my internet "sticking" (pages stop loading but it takes forever for a timeout).

Resetting the Belkin "unsticks" the browsing for awhile, but eventually it needs another reset to browse without horrible delays. I have a linksys switch where the WAN port is blown, but the LAN works great. Can I go with the following setup?

-- > Cable Modem --> (WAN in) AEBS (LAN out) --> (LAN in) Linksys

I realize I will have to reconfigure the AEBS, but I am so sick of the Belkin barfin' that I am ready to buy a new Router if I have to, but hate to waste a nice Linksys switch.

ibook_steve · Jan 12, 2009, 10:18 PM

Of course you can do this. Why do you have two routers anyway? The AEBS has ethernet ports itself. If there's something wrong with the Linksys, get a new one.
Switches are cheap. Get a new switch and you're good to go. You must use the "WAN" or downlink port on a switch to distribute the ethernet from the router if the number of ports on the router are not enough for your wired devices.

Steve

ghporter · Jan 12, 2009, 10:37 PM

Linksys or Belkin? You say both.

Anyway, like Steve says, it sounds like what you need is a switch on the LAN side of your AEBS to give you more ports. They're quite inexpensive and don't need any management.

Eriamjh · Jan 12, 2009, 10:45 PM

Originally Posted by ibook_steve

Of course you can do this. Why do you have two routers anyway?

The linksys was purchased back in 2000 for $150! It worked great with no issues until one day I had no internet. The router smelled of magic smoke, but all the macs on the LAN side could still see each other. I set it aside and bought another router - the Belkin ($40). The Linksys has been sitting for about a year now.

I want to dump the Belkin because of the "sticking" issue.

Here's the real question: If the WAN port on the linksys is fried, can I use the "uplink" port to connect it to the AEBS? If not, then I have to pitch it.

ghporter · Jan 13, 2009, 07:25 PM

How many ports do you need on the LAN side? A Linksys router has 4 LAN ports, and you can use one of them as the "uplink" port, leaving the other three for your local devices. I have a couple of different routers that I just use for their switches.

Eriamjh · Jan 13, 2009, 08:31 PM

I "need" three - iMac, Printer, other PC.

If I can use any port as an uplink, then I am set. I will try this and report back.

Thanks for the help.

ibook_steve · Jan 13, 2009, 09:01 PM

No, you can only usually use an indicated port for uplink. If that port is dead, you need a new device. (I said downlink earlier; I meant uplink).

Steve

Eriamjh · Jan 13, 2009, 10:48 PM

D'oh! You got me excited for a minute. I will probably just buy a new router.

Simon · Jan 14, 2009, 04:23 AM

Probably the best you can do is hook up the AP Extreme to your cable modem through the WAN port and then if you need more than three LAN ports buy a new hub.

Slightly off-topic, but when did Ethernet hubs start becoming called switches? In the 'old days' a switch was a routing device that contained a CPU and routing tables; basically a device that connected different subnets within the same type of network (Ethernet for example). The hubs on the other hand were dumb devices that did nothing more than add Ethernet connections. All they required was power, they had no logic of their own. And finally there were routers which usually connected two different types of network (for example a cable or DSL modem that routs a cable or DSL network to Ethernet). Nowadays it seems popular to call everything router or switch. Even little boxes that do nothing more than turn one Ethernet connection into four are called switches. Why is that? Are there simply no more 'dumb' hubs around? Does everything nowadays contains logic (making it at least a switch). Or is it just a misnomer that's become popular?

ghporter · Jan 14, 2009, 08:41 AM

Originally Posted by Simon

Slightly off-topic, but when did Ethernet hubs start becoming called switches? In the 'old days' a switch was a routing device that contained a CPU and routing tables; basically a device that connected different subnets within the same type of network (Ethernet for example). The hubs on the other hand were dumb devices that did nothing more than add Ethernet connections. ... Or is it just a misnomer that's become popular?

Laziness and lack of verbal rigor is the answer. A "hub" is still a passive device, and a "switch" still handles routing (on a very simplified basis compared to a router). But with these devices being sold to people who have to use Velcro to fasten their shoes, and sold BY people who didn't quite make the cut for McDonalds, those "fine distinctions" sort of became too complex to handle.

Yeah, I'm a cynic sometimes...

Simon · Jan 14, 2009, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

Yeah, I'm a cynic sometimes...

Yeah, but I had fun reading it.

Thanks!

ibook_steve · Jan 14, 2009, 12:15 PM

Actually, there is a big difference between an ethernet hub and an ethernet switch. Hubs are basically dumb devices. They don't perform any traffic management and you can't get good network performance through them. Switches handle traffic much more efficiently and are what everybody should be using now. Hubs are basically obsolete.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethernet_switch

Steve

Simon · Jan 14, 2009, 02:38 PM

The distinction between the two is clear. What surprises me is how often you hear switch when people are actually thinking about a hub.

Sure a switch offers better efficiency — it's an active device after all. But that doesn't necessarily mean hubs are obsolete. If somebody like the OP is basically just looking for a port multiplier a hub would be sufficient. Typical examples are home network environments were performance is limited for other reasons (DSL/cable caps, limited bandwidth due to wifi, etc.). The question is if there are any savings from buying a hub. Obviously if there are dozens of cheap switches to chose from and they turn out to cost the same as a hub (which are becoming harder to find) hubs might indeed vanish.

And then there's the problem when cheap switches are used as hubs. Some people don't realize they're switches and are configurable. Operating a switch with some default config might not be a wise idea. A hub in this case has the advantage that because it's passive (read 'dumb') there's nothing to configure in the first place. Just what you'd expect from a port multiplier.

Eriamjh · Jan 24, 2009, 02:15 PM

I have swapped the AEBS with the Belkin router and my wireless access does not have the stuttering problem anymore. I am still searching to replace the Linksys with the blow WAN port. (I'm just being cheap about replacing it).

Eriamjh · Jan 25, 2009, 08:10 PM

I swapped in my damaged linksys router and hooked the AEBS to it through the Uplink port. Then I connected one of the other four ports to my iMac and I'll be damned, the internet works!

I can't seem to access the router on its 192.168.1.1 port, but I don't care! I downloaded a 1.5GB backup file of my club website without issue (no stalling, etc.).

I'm be happy.

Cold Warrior · Jan 25, 2009, 08:12 PM

If your linksys is still set to act as a router and your AEBS is also a router, then you likely have a subnet problem, which would explain why you can't reach your linksys (unless you connect directly to it).

Eriamjh · Jan 25, 2009, 10:25 PM

I figured it out. The router was configured to be 192.168.1.1 internally, but the IPs assigned from the AEBS were 192.168.10.X. When I changed the router to be 192.168.10.10, I could access its setup page (it was on a different subnet, basically). It still passed internet info from the AEBS, but was technically inaccessible itself.

The internet routing of the Linksys is nonfunctional, but I think I can configure port forwarding and the like now. Woo hoo!

Cold Warrior · Jan 25, 2009, 10:28 PM

With your subnet problem fixed, you don't need to configure the linksys to port forward. That should be done on the AEBS since it is your router.

Eriamjh · Jan 25, 2009, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior

With your subnet problem fixed, you don't need to configure the linksys to port forward. That should be done on the AEBS since it is your router.

Ah. good point. Thanks for the correction. I figured I didn't have the whole picture.