[Cody Dawg]

^^^ ^^^

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by Moderator

Another role model of the right...exposed.

Don't think so, pal.

From Mel Gibson...

He joined many of his colleagues in the entertainment industry in opposition to the Iraq War and praised the liberal director Michael Moore and his documentary film Fahrenheit 9/11. Gibson's Icon Productions was originally set to back Moore's film, but mysteriously backed out. Moore claimed in 2004, Icon Productions got a call from top Republicans to tell Mel Gibson don’t expect to get more invitations to the White House." In 2006 Gibson told Hotdog Magazine, a UK film magazine, that the "fearmongering" depicted in his film Apocalypto "reminds me a little of President Bush and his guys." Many fans have perceived The Patriot (2000), We Were Soldiers (2001) and The Passion of the Christ (2004) as conservative movies.

Gibson isn't a bit further left than liberals would like to think at the moment. He's more of a hardcore Catholic than left/right-winger.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

I spoke to one person who helps run the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences and he says that "Gibson is done" in Hollywood after his tirade.

Mel was already close to done in Hollywood. This is indeed the nail in the coffin for his career. It's a shame for an actor who has been involved in some truly timeless movies to fizzle out this way, but it seems that he brought it on himself with this.

I didn't agree with his being ostracized for The Passion of the Christ, and I was likely going to see Apocalypto. I still belieeve that much of the criticism of The Passion was unfounded, but this is something that no one is going to be able to refute.

Considering Gibson is worth an estimated $850,000,000, I'm sure he's not going to be hurting.

[voodoo]

Mel Gibson is so damn cool

V

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by spacefreak

What - that "the Jews are responsible for all the world wars?" I hear and read plenty of people voice similar opinions. They have been involved in wars. That does't mean it's racist or anti-semitical. As for the "f---ing jews" thing, I'd really have to hear how it was said to convict the guy. Doesn't sound good, though. But then he asks "Are you a Jew?". Was that asked in a mean way, or was it a genuine question?

I want to know what was said to Mel before he responded. It makes a huge difference to know what was said, and how it was said. There are some recordings of this episode. That's was I want to hear, or at least transcribed before branding the man an anti-semite. Everyone sure as hell wanted to know what was said to Zidane before he attacked an opposing player in the World Cup final, and I want to know here.

And this anti-semite stuff is slung around way too much. I've heard people say much worse about the dreaded "neocons" than what Mel said.

In response to this post and others like it, we have to remember how much some people have invested in Mel Gibson not being an anti-Jewish bigot. They have already defended him against these charges in the past. They are committed to it. To accept the clear and direct evidence in this police report is to admit how wrong they were, and that's difficult to do.

[Cody Dawg]

BRussell.

The other issues that are even more important are:

1. Driving drunk and possibly killing someone (and apparently he's a habitual offender)
2. Threatening physical harm repeatedly to another person

The guy is nothing more and nothing less than a common criminal.



Oh, and I wanna know something else:

Why do these people, people like Mel Gibson, have to cause damage and harm first before they suddenly realize, "I have a problem and I need help."



I read today how Mel is "huddling with his spiritual advisor and a representative from Alcoholics Anonymous."



He would be out drinking and driving and possibly swerving to hit Jews if he hadn't been busted over the weekend.

[Jawbone54]

There is no excuse for drunk driving under any circumstance. Even for celebrities. Most people know someone who was hurt/killed in an accident due to drunk driving.

[Moderator]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

He's more of a hardcore Catholic than left/right-winger.

...and who do hard core religious zealots vote for?

America: Bush
Iran: Ahmadinejad
etc.

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by spacefreak

I want to know what was said to Mel before he responded. It makes a huge difference to know what was said, and how it was said.

Because that would justify it?

[Spliff]

From Slate magazine today. There are some choice lines in this editorial.
Mel Gibson's Meltdown: He is sick to his empty core with Jew-hatred.

I also think that the difference between the blood-alcohol levels—and indeed the speed limits—that occasioned the booking are insufficient to explain the expletives (as Gibson has since claimed in a typically self-pitying and verbose statement put out by his publicist). One does not abruptly decide, between the first and second vodka, or the ticks of the indicator of velocity, that the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion are valid after all.

There's a lot to dislike about Gibson. He is given to furious tirades against homosexuals of the sort that make one wonder if he has some kind of subliminal or "unaddressed" problem. His vulgar and nasty movies, which also feature this prejudice, are additionally replete with the cheapest caricatures of the English. Braveheart and The Patriot are two of the most laughable historical films ever made. (Englishmen don't form picket lines outside movie theaters when "stereotyped," but still.) He has told interviewers that his wife, the mother of his children, is going to hell because she subscribes to the wrong Christian sect (a view that he justifies as "a pronouncement from the chair"). And it has been obvious for some time to the most meager intelligence that he is sick to his empty core with Jew-hatred.
Click Here!

This is not just proved by his twistedly homoerotic spank-movie The Passion of the Christ, even though that ghastly production did focus obsessively on the one passage in the one of the four Gospels that tries to convict the Jewish people en masse of the hysterical charge of Christ-killing or "deicide." It is validated by his fealty to his earthly father, a crackpot who belongs to a Catholic splinter group of which our Mel is a member. This group more or less lives off the stench of medieval anti-Semitism. Allow me (as one who has Mel's father's books to hand) to give you an example. In an attempt a few years ago to heal the breach between the Vatican and the Jews, then-Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger did his best to make nice. Jews did not accept Jesus as savior and redeemer, said the man who is now the pope, but they did originate monotheism. Therefore, Judaism could perhaps be regarded in some ways as an "elder brother" of Christianity. The response of Gibson senior was to say that Abel also had an elder brother. … You know what? I think that this qualifies as anti-Semitism, too.

.....................

Let him keep the fortune he made from a pogrom movie, and let him by all means continue to sponsor his Latin Mass sectarian church in Malibu, where sinners are thick on the ground. But there was another touch of in vino veritas when he tearfully told the cops that "my life is f---ed," and this inadvertent truth ought to be remembered in all charity as the last words we ever want to hear from him.

[hey!_Zeus]

Let's face it...everyone dislikes Jews, even Jews. You just can't say it out loud or you will be attacked by so called righteous gentiles who are secretly Jew haters themselves. There is every reason to dislike certain groups and religions. Jews fall in that group.

Mel Gibson

To bad he's a Roman Catholic tho. But they are the biggest group of secret Jew haters.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Originally Posted by hey!_Zeus

Let's face it...everyone dislikes Jews, even Jews. You just can't say it out loud or you will be attacked by so called righteous gentiles who are secretly Jew haters themselves. There is every reason to dislike certain groups and religions. Jews fall in that group.

Mel Gibson

To bad he's a Roman Catholic tho. But they are the biggest group of secret Jew haters.

...wonderful. That was just what this thread needed: another ignorant, inflammatory post.

/sarcasm

greg

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by Moderator

...and who do hard core religious zealots vote for?

America: Bush
Iran: Ahmadinejad
etc.

You just made yourself sound ridiculously desperate.

[Spliffdaddy]

Since well over 70% of Americans claim to subscribe to a religion - there's no way they can all be conservatives.

I'd bet there are as many religious Democrats as there are religious Republicans.

[spacefreak]

Originally Posted by BRussell

In response to this post and others like it, we have to remember how much some people have invested in Mel Gibson not being an anti-Jewish bigot. They have already defended him against these charges in the past. They are committed to it. To accept the clear and direct evidence in this police report is to admit how wrong they were, and that's difficult to do.

I don't know why you're replying with this trash to me. I have nothing invested in the man. I simply want to hear the entire conversation before branding the guy.

To someone else: yes, it does make a difference what was said to the man.

I find it very telling to see those people, who are branding Mel an anti-semite, sitting idle and quiet while Iran's leadership makes significantly more anti-semitical comments on a weekly basis while funding movements aimed at the elimination of Jews.

[Spliffdaddy]

true dat

[Eug]

Originally Posted by spacefreak

I find it very telling to see those people, who are branding Mel an anti-semite, sitting idle and quiet while Iran's leadership makes significantly more anti-semitical comments on a weekly basis while funding movements aimed at the elimination of Jews.

Non-sequitur

[Y3a]

So, people can't voice their OPINIONS anymore?

I thought THAT WAS A RIGHT!

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Y3a

So, people can't voice their OPINIONS anymore?

I thought THAT WAS A RIGHT!

Of course it's a right. Of course, it's also a right to critize people who go on idiotic racist tirades. It's also a right to criticize people who drive drunk.

[Landos Mustache]

Anyone else think hollywood is overreacting just a tad?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Movi....ap/index.html

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Anyone else think hollywood is overreacting just a tad?

http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Movi....ap/index.html

Maybe by some, but I were the ABC brass, I'd cancel the project too. It would be a total joke to have Gibson involved in a story about the Holocaust after all this.

P.S. I wasn't aware the police officer was Jewish. I guess that explains why Gibson chose that particular moment to spill his anti-semitic guts.

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Maybe by some, but I were the ABC brass, I'd cancel the project too. It would be a total joke to have Gibson involved in a story about the Holocaust after all this.

Ya but they should admit why. They just say "no script for 2 years". Chicken shits.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Ya but they should admit why. They just say "no script for 2 years". Chicken shits.

Yeah I guess. But I mean, it's pretty damn obvious why. They don't need to pound it into our heads, and they're covering their assets too. Openly criticizing Gibson on this might open themselves up to criticism more, and they probably want to just avoid it. I can understand that.

[Landos Mustache]

Talk about DRAAAAAAMAA.

""I'm not just asking for forgiveness," Gibson said in a statement issued through his publicist. "I would like to take it one step further, and meet with leaders in the Jewish community, with whom I can have a one on one discussion to discern the appropriate path for healing.""

[Kerrigan]

Dunno if anyone has mentioned this, but a "source" sez that Mel Gibson was near suicide that night.

"No one's really asking questions about his state of mind. That's why he was driving around 90 miles an hour. This was a death wish. If that cop hadn't stopped him, this guy was going to be wrapped around a pole. This is such a bigger issue than 'Will he work again?' This is about his not wanting to live anymore. I've seen what he's gone through and what he's going through."

http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.co...-a-death-wish/

Sounds about right actually.

[Landos Mustache]

He was drunk. People do and say stupid things when they are drunk.

[Robert A.M. Stephens]

Hail, Mel Gibson, one of the great movie makers, actors, and social icons of our time.

[Kerrigan]

He's said in the past that he wanted to kill himself.

“I got to a very desperate place. Very desperate. Kind of jump-out-of-a-window kind of desperate,” he said in the interview. “And I didn’t want to hang around here, but I didn’t want to check out. The other side was kind of scary. And I don’t like heights, anyway. But when you get to that point where you don’t want to live, and you don’t want to die, it’s a desperate, horrible place to be."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4224452/

[Spliff]

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

He was drunk. People do and say stupid things when they are drunk.

Let me quote--again--from the article I linked to above:

"One does not abruptly decide, between the first and second vodka, or the ticks of the indicator of velocity, that the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion are valid after all."

And just to reiterate the old latin phrase: in vino veritas

[saddino]

Originally Posted by Robert A.M. Stephens

Sieg Heil, Mel Gibson, one of the great movie makers, actors, and social icons of our time.

Fixed.

[Eug Wanker]

Did they publish how high his blood alcohol content was?

If it was 0.08, he's screwed because he shouldn't have been driving, but OTOH some people can control what they say at that level at least to a certain extent.

If it was 0.18, he's screwed because although his mind would have been mush, he shouldn't have been walking, much less driving.

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Did they publish how high his blood alcohol content was?

If it was 0.08, he's screwed because he shouldn't have been driving, but OTOH most people can control what they say at that level at least to a certain extent.

If it was 0.18, he's screwed because although his mind would have been mush, he shouldn't have been walking, much less driving.

it was .12

[evfish84]

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

it was .12

Which is still low enough for an average-sized male to not experience confusion. What he said he probably meant - people don't say stuff that they don't already believe when they're drunk.

[Kerrigan]

How many beers is .12?

[Eug Wanker]

Hmmm... At 0.12 I'd be looking pretty obviously drunk. But then again, I don't drink much. Usually no more than 1 or 2 glasses of wine (or whatever) at dinner, sporadically.

Then again, he apparently was a recovering alcholic, no? Usually alcholics can withstand a higher BAC than those of us who don't drink much.

But yeah, in vino veritas...

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

How many beers is .12?

I'm guessing 4 beers or so in an hour for someone around 70 kg. However, I'd bet he's more like 80+ kg. So maybe 6 beers?

[evfish84]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

I'm guessing 4 beers or so in an hour for someone around 70 kg. However, I'd bet he's more like 80+ kg. So maybe 6 beers?

That's right on the dot, according to Princeton University health services.

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by evfish84

Which is still low enough for an average-sized male to not experience confusion. What he said he probably meant - people don't say stuff that they don't already believe when they're drunk.

Well I have seem some people go ape **** over one beer so there is no real set standard on asshole behavior.

[evfish84]

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Well I have seem some people go ape **** over one beer so there is no real set standard on asshole behavior.

I've seen that also, but In my experience, those people are either really unaccustomed to drinking (which good 'ol Mel is certainly NOT) or on a medication that boosts the alcohol's effect. Either way, BAC is not an exact means of determining how messed up a drinker is.

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by Robert A.M. Stephens

Hail, Mel Gibson, one of the great movie makers, actors, and social icons of our time.

Well said

V

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Moderator

...and who do hard core religious zealots vote for?

America: Bush
Iran: Ahmadinejad
etc.

Hyperboleriffic!

And not even true. I know hard core religious zealots that think the Left is blessed.

Some people in here and there stereotypes.... sheesh.

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally Posted by Eug

(snip)Then again, he apparently was a recovering alcholic, no? (snip)

no.

Apparently he was a practicing alcoholic.

[hey!_Zeus]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Don't think so, pal.

From Mel Gibson...



Gibson isn't a bit further left than liberals would like to think at the moment. He's more of a hardcore Catholic than left/right-winger.

BrokeJaw Mountain...

If you are a practicing Roman Catholic you cannot be a liberal or lefty. You can have some liberal views that do not go against what The Vatican dictates like being against war.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by hey!_Zeus

BrokeJaw Mountain...

If you are a practicing Roman Catholic you cannot be a liberal or lefty. You can have some liberal views that do not go against what The Vatican dictates like being against war.

Really - that's fascinating. So can you be a righty-conservative and be Catholic?

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by hey!_Zeus

If you are a practicing Roman Catholic you cannot be a liberal or lefty. You can have some liberal views that do not go against what The Vatican dictates like being against war.

In case you haven't noticed, the Vatican is against just about every political ideology. Whenever the Pope shows up in the US, he usually goes on an anti-capitalism tirade that gets under everyones' skin.

For the most part, the political viewpoints of the Vatican are worth less than nothing. The mainstream viewpoints of the west were all founded by anti-Catholic thinkers: Locke, Hume, Marx, Jefferson, Voltaire, Mill, Rousseau, ...

[Robert A.M. Stephens]

There is a recurring thread appearing in this whole Mel Gibson affair that is rather astonishing. In a small way, I've seen what this type of personal demonizing leads toward. When I was sued by Art Bell, the radio UFO-Radio psycho, for $60,000,000 I watched him and his attorneys on Good Morning America, Today, CNN, etc, etc, etc, personally grill me in ways out side of reason and decency--The hate mail and threats poured in to my agent, me, my folks, my GF, etc.. I felt that this hit would probably end my career in the arts and FX stuff as well as my affiliation with NASA--the latter something dear to me.

Instead, I was attacked at first in very sordid ways, then the pariah complex kicked in, then further investigation cautiously suggesting I was not Satan and the Anti Christ, then sympathy and the first suggestion I was in fact, quite sound of mind and reason and fairly acceptable as part of the human race, then all out rooting for the underdog, then vindication.

Meanwhile, business (art and FX gigs) jumped 10 fold over 2 years thereafter.

Mel Gibson will be such a curiousity draw after this, in about 3 weeks to 2 months, that he will be at the top of the spine again within a year. He will excel and be some form of victim-hero with people clamoring after his Ahura Mazda Surge, as do all mob temperments do, if they don't kill him, or cause him to kill himself, first.

This will be intriguing what beholds such.

[Robert A.M. Stephens]

As aside, for anyones' information, I only met Mel once at the InterContinental Paris Le Grand Hotel after one of my art shows and after he and his wife bought three of my paintings and commisssioned one more large set piece depicting The windmills of Crete. We spent the evening with himself and his wife and a French date of mine in the lounge at the hotel and talked about everything. We talked about the world, religion, God, and so on and through the entire evening he was fervent about the fear of any agression towards Israel, Jews in general and the Holocaust. He also had contributed and donated huge sums of money to the Israel West Bank development and to two colleges in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem, and did so in the upmost secrecy to avoid overt publicity, good or bad, against himself.

I think this whole thing is a publicity stunt and for him to deal with drinking, nothing more. He did put away the booze that night but was not in any way effected by appearance.

Just some personal thoughts.

[Kerrigan]

I think your situation is a little different, Robert. The reason is that you went on the air and said something which was true, and then you had a rich radio-personality launch an attack against you for speaking the truth.

With Mel Gibson, he is by no means the underdog, and he said things which are blatantly false. He won't get much sympathy.

Nevertheless, these are his own personal problems and I doubt I'll give them too much thought next time I see one of his movies.

[Robert A.M. Stephens]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

I think your situation is a little different, Robert. The reason is that you went on the air and said something which was true, and then you had a rich radio-personality launch an attack against you for speaking the truth.

With Mel Gibson, he is by no means the underdog, and he said things which are blatantly false. He won't get much sympathy.

Nevertheless, these are his own personal problems and I doubt I'll give them too much thought next time I see one of his movies.

Good point about truth. Good point about what was said. It is fishy to me though since I saw his body language and his convictions and his emphatic stand onbeing pro Israel. I do think alcohol is the issue. Severe in fact by his own admission. Time will tell.

[Eug Wanker]

Heh. Sugar tits.

(Yeah I know it was in the original post, but I didn't know what "sugar t--s" meant.

The industry reacts to Mel

For Gibson

"I've worked with Mel on several films over the years and we have a great relationship. We all make mistakes and I've accepted his apology to what was a regrettable situation. I wish him the very best on his path to healing."

-- Oren Aviv, president of Walt Disney Pictures

"I look at Mel no different as the rest of us, which is that none of us are without fault and we all make mistakes. But we have a very forgiving God."

-- Doug Martinez, formerly of Outreach Inc., which helped market The Passion of the Christ

"Crews and artists on his movies really respect him. . . . He needs to become part of the community. He's become isolated by this weird paranoia."

-- an executive who worked with Gibson on Passion

Against Gibson

"People in the entertainment community, whether Jew or Gentile, need to demonstrate that they understand how much is at stake in this by professionally shunning Mel Gibson."

-- Ari Emanuel, a partner at Hollywood agency

Endeavor

"I don't think I want to see any more Mel Gibson movies." -- The View host Barbara Walters

"Through his incoherent tirades, he has betrayed his friends and colleagues. But most importantly, he has betrayed himself."

-- Variety editor Peter Bart

[Moderator]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Hyperboleriffic!

How so...is not the religious right George Bush's "base." Is it not religious zealotry the root of the middle east's problems. The religious right is the problem..here and there.

Without the self righteousness of religious fundamentalism the world would be doing pretty well right about now.